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Sample Size

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This topic has 6 voices, contains 8 replies, and was last updated by Avatar of Nik Nik 225 days ago.

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August 14, 2012 at 7:46 am #184731

Sujith

Need help in understanding Sample size in detail pls…

August 14, 2012 at 7:52 am #184732
Avatar of Katie Barry
Katie Barry
Reputation - 8006
Rank - Gold

Sujith – I did a quick search of iSixSigma and found these articles dealing with sample size – http://search.isixsigma.com/b/q?sn=158097990&keys=sample+size&rel=1&sa=Search

Remember that the better and more specific the question you ask – and more background you provide – the better advice you are likely to get. Also – before asking others for their thoughts, share yours. The iSixSigma community is willing to help, but they want to see that you’re trying to solve a problem on your own first.

September 12, 2012 at 1:41 pm #185459

Sujith

Thanks Katie! sorry, but I am little weak in Maths, so the movement i see formula(s)… topic starts bouncing over my head:(

I am confused after googling sample size calc, as it gives the output but not sure how it concludes on sample number..hence, wanted a detailed explanation about various factors that are considered to determine the sample size. wanted a detailed explanation on what confidence interval, confidence level, Z value etc are while calculating sample size

September 12, 2012 at 2:27 pm #185460
Avatar of Robert Butler
Robert Butler
Reputation - 2150
Rank - Silver

I’m not trying to be insulting but you are essentially asking someone to give you a multiweek short course in statistics without making any reference to mathematics – that is a very tall order. If you wish to understand the things you listed in your post you are going to have to spend some time understanding mathematical concepts which means you will have to do some reading. To that end I would recommend you go over to your local library and ask for some texts through inter-library loan.

Some possibilities:

An Introduction to Medical Statistics – Martin Bland – 3rd Edition – Chapter 18 Determination of Sample Size – fairly self-contained – but only as far as sample size estimates are concerned

Statistical Methods – Snedecor and Cochran 7th edition – Section 21.6 pp.441 discusses the mathematics of sample size calculation. This book is the original nuts and bolts boiler plate – it has good examples and it covers not only sample size but the other items you listed – confidence intervals, Z values, etc.

The Cartoon Guide to Statistics – Gonick and Smith – boiler plate in cartoon form – a good place to start.

September 12, 2012 at 2:50 pm #185461
Avatar of Chris Seider
Chris Seider
Reputation - 3018
Rank - Titanium

Sample Size is dependent on what statistical question you are trying to answer, the degree of confidence you want to determine a difference exists and a degree of confidence the difference does not exist (alpha and beta risk), standard deviation, and what practical difference you are attempting to see.

@rbutler is a great resource. You don’t have to understand maths, statistical programs like Minitab can help spit out the numbers out of their black box that does the calculations for you but you really need to understand the ramifications of the inputs you are giving to the packages. Read up on some of the sources he mentioned or use google.

September 13, 2012 at 10:17 am #185477
Avatar of Mike Carnell
Mike Carnell
Reputation - 3168
Rank - Titanium

@rbutler What is a library? Are those things still around

Sujith I have attached a sample size spreadsheet that habeen floating around with me since about 1995. I have no idea if it is dead accurate and actually don’t care. It is close. What it shows you if you take the time to read it and think about it (I can do this because my life is such a full oyster) you can learn things like the relationships between types of risk, sensitivity of the test and sample size.

Programs like Minitab of course do this in much less time than it takes to figure out where you saved the document and then look it up on the table.

Hope this helps some

September 13, 2012 at 11:19 am #185486

Sujith

Thanks all for your responses & the magic table!!

I am continuing with my research on sample size.. in the meantime, can anyone list down all the factors considered to determine sample size…

eg. (1)confidence level (if its a factor considered)
(2) confidence interval etc

September 13, 2012 at 1:38 pm #185503
Avatar of Robert Butler
Robert Butler
Reputation - 2150
Rank - Silver

It depends on the kind of data you have and what you want to do. The two very broad categories would be:

1. Sample populations with estimates of the mean and standard deviation
2. Sample populations with estimates of percentage differences

The first case can be of two types – a single population with a reference target or two populations with their respective means and the difference between these means. This information will be used to estimate the size of the difference you wish to detect with a certain degree of confidence and a certain level of power. To this you would add any two of the following three items – your alpha level, your power, your total number of samples. Given the above and any two of the preceding three you can compute the third item (either alpha, power, or sample size)

2. For proportions this situation is the same but the equations are different. Therefore you will have either one proportion and a target or two proportions. As above this defines the difference. Also as above you then need to specify any two of the three items – alpha, power, and sample size in order to generate an estimate of the third.

October 10, 2012 at 9:53 am #186148
Avatar of Nik
Nik
Reputation - 25
Rank - Aluminum

There are two steps to calculating sample size:
1. Pick the formula to use
2. Pick 4 out of 5 factors

For step 1. The best way to determine which equation to use is to look at which hypothesis test you’ll want to run later. Will you want to compare two proportions? 2 means? 2 variances. A good hypothesis testing road map will guide you to the right test, then if you use a program like Minitab, you’ll see its sample size options align with each of the hypothesis tests (except the non-paramentrics, for non-parametric tests add 15%, reply to the post for more info).

Step 2: I’m going to assume you are using continuous data (reply to the post for the proportional data portion). For continuous data there are 5 factors. Decide which you want to solve for an plug in the other 4. Below are the factors and recommended assumptions.

- Alpha risk – this is the risk of committing a Type 1 error (i.e., innocent man sent to jail). The default in the stats books is 0.05, but you can vary it based on the risk you want to assume. You can go as high as 0.1 without making the stats experts freak out. Higher the alpha, fewer the samples.

- Power – this is one minus the beta risk (the inverse of the beta risk). Beta risk is the probability of committing a Type 2 error (i.e., guilty man goes free). The default for the power in the stats books is 0.90 (10% beta risk) and you can go as high as 0.80 before the stats experts freak out. Lower the power, fewer the samples.

- Standard deviation: what is the standard deviation in your data? Most people struggle here because they want to know how many samples to take and therefore don’t have any data. If you do have some representative sample data you can substitute that value. If you have no data, none, there is a trick I’ll talk about in the next bullet. Smaller the standard deviation, fewer the samples.

- Difference: how much of a difference in the means do you want to see before your test will identify it as being statistically significant. For example, you have two piles of boards. One pile was cut by operator A and the other by operator B, you think they are different. How big of a difference do you want to see before you claim “statistically significant”? Is a quarter inch enough? 1/8 of an inch? The smaller the difference you want to get excited about, the more samples you’ll need. Common mistake: Do not use the difference between the means as the difference in this calculation. You won’t pick up the difference. Rather, how fine of a measuring stick do you want to use?

Okay, here is the forementioned tip: If you don’t know the standard deviation, that’s okay. In the equations it is a ratio of the difference to the standard deviation. So if you don’t know the standard deviation: set the standard deviation to 1 sigma and set the difference to how many standard deviations appart should the means be before you get excited. Do you want to know a 1/2 standard deviation difference, a 1/4 standard deviation difference? Larger the difference, fewer samples needed (but that also means you’ll miss detecting small shifts).

- Sample size – how many samples do you need to collect? On first pass, this is the one you are usually solving for. However, after you see your initial sample size calc, you might freak and say “well, I can’t collect 1250 samples!!” So now you play your numbers games. One option is to set this number to “how many samples do you want to collect? Or how many can you afford?” Then you can solve for one of the other values like: If I take 30 samples, then I’ll only be able to detect differences greater than 1″.

I found this approach simplifies all the equations and calculations and gives Belts more control. So “what hypo test will you eventually want to run?” and “pick which factor to solve for.”

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