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8D vs Shainin

Six Sigma – iSixSigma Forums Old Forums General 8D vs Shainin

Viewing 8 posts - 1 through 8 (of 8 total)
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  • #43194

    Willem Megens
    Member

    Hello,
    I’m trying to find out why 8D or Shainin is a better method to use.  In my opinion Shainin is far better because you don’t guess what could be wrong, as you do with 8D…
    Can any one reply on this? I need to convince my management what is the best method.
    Thanks!
    Gr Willem Megens

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    #136749

    TwoCents
    Member

    Six Sigma is the best method. ;)

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    #136751

    April
    Participant

    You missed to explane better about what.

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    #136753

    Charles H.
    Participant

    This was posted recenty on another thread regarding 8D.  If you haven’t seen it before, it might be worthwhile in your dscussions.

    “I received Ford Motor Company’s Quality award for the development and writing of the 8D problem solving methodology. I wrote this methodology in 1986-87 upon the request of senior management in the Powertrain engineering groups. Many of the posts have identified pieces of what the 8Ds are and how they are used. Some are not really reflective of the intent. The manual I wrote for Ford that introduced the 8D problem solving strategy was titled “Team-Oriented Problem Solving”(TOPS). It was not based on any Kepner-Tregoe(KT) material – with the exception of some material in the appendix for reference. Ford senior management was very unhappy with the results of KT and felt they need a statistical based approach. The material was written specifically for Ford and issues they had to address. It was never written with the intent to be used by the supply base. Hence, there are some issues as other companies try to apply the methodology. In addition, in the 1990s, Ford rewrote some of my material and retitled it “Global 8D” and put back most of the KT stuff. Hence, now you have a structure of the 8Ds trying to be supported with tools and techniques that don’t fit. Sadly, many Tier1 suppliers write some pretty awful 8Ds and obviously don’t have the management understanding of the purpose. Many focus on the containment actions and stop at that point – only to see the problem recur and add cost to their production centers. I am sure in most cases there is not change to the management structure that allowed the defect to occur in the first place. Unless the systems change, it will just be chasing one problem after another. Of course, many of the tools are used in both the 8D investigation as well as Six sigma projects. In some cases, the actual steps will be very similar. My intent with the 8Ds was to be a temporary band-aid fix to address chronic problems that have continued to recur and change the underlying management system that have allowed them to exist.”
    Eileen J. Beachell, Quality Disciplines
     
    Best of luck,
     
    Charles

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    #136786

    Willem Megens
    Member

    Hello,
    What I would like to know is:
    What is a better method to use to solve recurring problems in products that are made in production, Shainin or 8D? And why?
    Gr. Willem Megens 

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    #136788

    April
    Participant

    8D is a general purpose root cause analysis process to follow, where isn’t specified which tools to use, so following 8D you can use Shainin or whatever method you believe is proper for the scope.
    Shainin process guide you through a specific, effective problem solving method.
    What is the best ? Both, because they can be the same.
    For the specific problems you said, start to use Shainin.

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    #136805

    Harsh
    Participant

    8D is when you have to lie…to keep your job…& no actual problem solving…by Shainin or Six-Sigma (with systematic problem solving methodology)…you can actually find the root cause…if management gives you enough time….
    sorry to be honest…

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    #136807

    Jered Horn
    Participant

    I guess the answer to your question is that you’re right…Shainin principles would be preferrable.  In fact, I think it’s laughable that you’d even consider 8D to solve what seems to be an internal problem in production.  My experience is that 8Ds are done at customer request-only.  And for the most part they’ve left a foul taste in my mouth because they are hardly ever about the truth…”we can’t tell our customer THAT!”.
    The bottom line, though, is to determine the root cause with DATA and statistical analysis.  Not by filling out a survey, asking “Whys”, or guessing (I know 8D is more than that, theoretically).  That’s called brainstorming, and does have its place early on in the problem solving methodology.
    If I were you, I’d try to push DMAIC to your management.
    Good luck.

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