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Black belt without project or Green Belt?

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  • #48468

    m nelson
    Participant

    Hi,
    I have realised that I want to deepen my knowledge within Six Sigma, and as i have extensive experience as project manager, within IT and process improvements, my original thought was to jump on to the Black belt immediately, but without having a real project at hand, should i rather then get the Green Belt certification and then when next project arise, (Spring 2008, apply for the Black Belt certification)?
    As i have studied TQM at university, and worked with process improvements, the test exams i have found for black belt sofar, seem to be quite what i´ve learnt already inc statistics. So in that aspect it feels as black belt is applicable directly.
    Thanks in advance. 
     
     

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    #163765

    SiggySig
    Member

    IMHO, project work is essential to becoming either a BB or GB. There are a number of training programs out there that will give you classroom instruction, and a fictitious project to run, but are of limited value in the absence of a real project run in real business circumstances.You will find again and again here that the statistics and various tools are far easier to master than leading leaders and managing change. For me, those aspects simply cannot be learned with hypotheticals.Good luck.

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    #163766

    fake accrington alert
    Participant

    Disagree with  great  respect
    Everybody  is  repeating  that ……………………..
    I’m  not  convinced as  I  found  in  one  case  the  simulated  project more  comprehensive and  informative  than the  actual  project .
    Just  my  opinion  but  I  wish  to  read  more  elaboration
    best  regards

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    #163768

    Brandon
    Participant

    m nelson – the answer (s) to your question (s) depend on your objective (s). OK I’ll stop with the (s).
    Do you want to enhance your ability to perform effectively or do you want a certification (whatever that is) such that you can seek other employment as a Black Belt?
    If you want to enhance your performance, by all means find a way to self-learn BB skills. You will benefit from that experience.
    If you want certification then you will have to find an organization that prints certificates – there are a lot of them.
    If you truly want to perform at a competent BB level then you need formalized training including mentoring through a project and into a 2nd one then experience with 6 to 10 other projects. At that point you will have been through enough to likely be a competent BB.

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    #163791

    Chris Seider
    Participant

    Glad to hear you are interested…..in six sigma.
    Do not let an exam of statistics let you believe you have nothing to learn if you go through GOOD six sigma training.  If you have an excellent instructor and project mentor, you will learn how all of the tools support each other and understand the process which helps you drive results. 
     

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    #163805

    fake accrington alert
    Participant

    Well  said

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    #163842

    Gordon Paisley
    Participant

    Brandon’s response is spot on.
    When I review a resume of someone claiming to be a Black Belt, I am looking for someone who was in a full-time BB role for a couple years.  I am skeptical of people who are in some kind of management/BB or a quality/BB role.  The ‘slash’ aspect of a title means that someone is trying to wear 2 hats and the BB hat is the one that usually gets the less attention since it is harder and is less ‘urgent’ than the demands of the other role.  That’s not to say that it is impossible to be a ‘real’ BB with a ‘slash’ title, but I think it is very difficult.
    My company also asks for a brief overview of at least 2 BB projects from a BB before we even invest in a 30-minute phone screen.  We believe that application is the sine qua non of certification.  Any BB worth their salt knows how important operational definitions are, and if they are willing to call themselves a Black Belt without demonstrating the ability to do the really hard parts of the job (leading a lasting change in an organization) then they have already disqualified themselves.  The term Black Belt has to meet some minimal standard (in this case training and demonstrated impact) to be worth anything.
    Best Regards,
    GP

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    #163843

    Taylor
    Participant

    M Nelson
    Just want to add to some of the other comments, that it is very important to developing project skills to be able to work at the green belt level. I have seen some self proclaimed BB’s struggle with some of the most elementary fundamentals of Six Sigma process because they have never completed a project at that level. Not to say that simulated projects are not good, but they have a predetermined outcome and often very simple in nature, or at least my experience.
    Chad Vader

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    #163887

    m nelson
    Participant

    Hi,
    thanks a lot for all your feedback. I can understand your views about BB certification when trying to apply for BB jobs. My intention is not to work as BB-role fulltime, rather i would like to be able to apply Six Sigma methodology when i do BPR within mainly service processes as I am working as fulltime project manager within IT. So my question is more of is Green Belt good enough for my intention or could i benefit from going deeper into the method?
    Worth mentioning is also that I work in Sweden where Six Sigma is not yet well known outside OEM´s. 
     
    Thanks again for your views!

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    #163889

    Gordon Paisley
    Participant

    In your case then, I think you would be fine with a GB-level of training.  You will get enough of the methodology and tools to be better at your job.  If I may suggest looking for a program that includes Lean, I think you will find some valuable additional tools as you do BPR work.
    Gordon

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    #163890

    Brandon
    Participant

    M – my opinion, given your intent, is that GB is plenty sufficient to imporve your skills as a project mgr. Truth is, look at the Process Mngt course in eBooks on this site or at opensourcesixsigma.com. It’s a tweener YB-GB and contains great skills for your position. I’ve used it in the service industry and find great traction for the amount of effort in learning.

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