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Black/Green Belt exam without experience

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  • #34427

    mcintosh
    Participant

    I am an Engineer and doing my MBA. I am a full time student and not working currently. I am intrested in Six Sigma and want a formal certification. Where can I give the exam for Black/Green Belt where experience is not required. As I am a student I have not work on Six Sigma Project.
    Help appreciated
    Tom

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    #94941

    webegeek
    Member

    No, why would they want to certify someone without experience? In the computer industry, there was a reputation developed called ‘paper CNE’s’ or ‘paper MCSE’ for quite some time. People who could study and pass exams but couldn’t take the lid off a computer. Six Sigma avoids that. Anywhere that I know of where you take the GB or BB course you will be doing a project.I am taking my certification at University of Michigan-online. The GB course had tests throughout the course and a project at the end, though they did provide a simulated project which I used. In the BB course, there are 8 cases (projects) that you do as part of the course and a final project that is real world hands dirty sort of thing.As a computer geek, I can tell you that all the textbook learning doesn’t mean squat when you are out at a client site. Experience is what solves problems and experience is gathered by a long time of getting your fingers dirty and figuring things out. Life rarely imitates textbooks.

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    #94942

    Bob M.
    Participant

    Tom,
    You’re playing with fire asking that question in this forum. There are many traditionally trained Six Sigma belts, myself included, who cringe at the thought of the drive-thru certifications that are popping up out there. I’ve witnessed firsthand those who simply want the piece of paper without any of the dirty work and that just makes the whole thing so cheap and undeserved. If you want it you gotta earn it. This ain’t no late nite mail-order diploma scheme. Before long, everyone will be a belt and it won’t mean jack. It’s like how the term “engineer” is tossed around so loosely these days, or even certain MBA programs I suppose.
    Beware of  “dilution pollution.”
    Do it the right way and feel the pain.
    Regards,
    Black Belt Bob
     
     

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    #94948

    Ven
    Member

    Hi Bob,
             I understand your point. But I feel, there are some things can be learned from the book (especially about tools used in six sigma).
    Don’t you think it would be appropriate to learn those techniques by going these courses and really use them on the job? This may give them a starting point in their career.
             Let me know if any of you have different opinion.
    Regards
    Ven

     

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    #94949

    KBailey
    Participant

    Don’t think of it as experience, think of it as demonstrated results.
    Nobody cares if something should improve the bottom line. We want to know if it actually does improve the bottom line. A trained Green Belt or Black Belt should be able to lead a successful project. A certified Green Belt or Black Belt has led successful projects.
    Experience is just being there through something. A good certification process looks deeper. It looks for proof of competence in the application of the tools to real-world business problems. It looks for evidence of increased process knowledge within the greater organization, along with real measureable benefit.
    By all means, get the training. Just don’t put much stock in a certification that doesn’t require you to complete projects.

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    #94950

    Karel
    Participant

    I find difficult to see how anyone can be called a GB or BB without a certain amount of structured and relevant experience to support the qualification / training. So in effect getting the training and even the certificate in itself should not constitute an immediate title of GB /BB. I personally would like to see the training put into effect and some real benefit demonstrated, with some form of independant assessment to confirm the title. In my opinion then, it is not about a closed shop, rather a worthwhile standard is maintained. Ramblings of the Scotsman over. Karel MBB
     

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    #94958

    SSS
    Member

    Just to add to everyone else’s point of view… Would you give a driver’s licence to someone who has passed a “theoretical” driving test, but has NEVER drove a car?  Same principle applies to Six Sigma FORTUNATELY! 
    People can attend training for learning purposes only. If you don’t work on a project you won’t acquire 50% of the “practical” knowledge you need in order to be called Green Belt. Then you need to practice, practice, practice working on more than 4 projects to be able to really understand the tools.
    I’ve met and worked with Green Belts who were trained & certified either thru an “on-line” or “disc” curriculum.  They don’t even know about basic principles such as: “What is a Primary Metric?” but they are “certified” green belts.

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    #95081

    Chen
    Participant

    Tom,
    U can get an engineering degree by books and an MBA degree too… But am afraid you cant be a Black Belt without having to show the impact on the books…. Good luck … get a project where in you can show some good impact to the business and for this you needn’t have a big experience.
    All businesses are striving to get to what the Theory says and all business are way off from it…. There are plenty of opportunities to prove an impact but you need to see it in the Six Sigma way…
    Cheers,
    Jerry
     
     
     

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    #95082

    Jha
    Participant

    I am working in quality field for last seven years & am exposed to the latest tools.I want to do a certification & have already spoken to my superiors including the plant head but my company does not have any interest in six sigma initiatives.
    How can I independently  go ahead for the certification & is finance manager’s signatures a must for submitting cost savings in the projects?
    Pl also tell if I can use last year’s cost savings as a project?
    Many Thanks
    Jai.
     

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    #95087

    John J Noronha
    Participant

    Hi,
    As rightly pointed out by webegeek, you need to show evidence of practice. This requirement however is typically met when you complete sample projects that are usually part of a six-sigma certification “training” programme.
    Alternatively, you could meet this requirement by doing a six sigma oriented improvement project as part of your “practice school” or internship (?) with a “real life” external organization. Not sure about the US, but this is typically a mandatory component of a graduade/ under-graduate programme elsewhere.
    Regards,
    John

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    #95136

    T N Goh
    Member

    Agree! The “experience” requirement is what sets Six Sigma professionals apart from other types.  No one should put on a “belt” if there is no experience to put under that belt.

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    #95218

    Gasem Al Maimani
    Participant

    From industrial application point of view, think of it as an experience backgoround . So, if you do not have any indutrial experience you may be able to lead a project but you will not be the optimum choise even if you are certified.

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    #95231

    Laurie MBB
    Participant

    … and something else to keep in mind … if you or your organization’s leadership are considering HIRING folks who indicate some flavor of Six Sigma certification on their resume … dig deeper!! 
    Caveat Emptor … you could be hiring someone with the paperwork and maybe the ‘booksmarts’, but not the results-driven successes behind it, nor the ‘people skills’ to drive transactional results that are actually sustainable!
    Many a hiring manager / HR manager has fallen into this trap!

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    #95234

    Martínez
    Participant

    About the closest thing to a sham on this website is the Univerity of Texas at Austin 2 week BB program. Take that since your looking to “get by” Just don’t go to a job interview and say your a BB when your done.

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    #95236

    O’Connell
    Participant

    Tom,
    Certification without experience is a waste of everyone’s time and a dilution factor to the integrity of Six Sigma. Focus on training, not certification, from a worthy instructor. Then look for a project and get real world experience. Deliver bottom line savings.
    Don’t waste your time or money on anything else.
    Brian

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    #95258

    Ghosh
    Participant

    I am a Quality professional with 12 years experience in India. With Industrial Engineering background , I have carried a large number of such improvement projects. However , I have not gone for certification and I am not a BB .
    But recently , I am finding that organizations while recruiting  or giving an assignment as Consultant are more interested in knowing whether you are BB or not
     

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    #113458

    Pdubu
    Participant

    The experience factor is important, but from what I have found looking for training towards certification one needs to have a project to work at your place of employment.  Am I just reading this aspect incorrectly?  I’m reading that into Tom’s request, since it is hard to get the certification if you don’t have somewhere to gain the actual experience.  Where I work they do not see the benefit of such activity (don’t get me started on how dumb that is) so my workplace wouldn’t be where I could gain the proper experience for certification.
    So, without going on about how you need experience to be certified, how would the group suggest I (as well as Tom and others) meet the experience requirement when our immediate opportunities for experience are limited.  The idea is to get a ‘good’ BB certification to change employers and pursue the type of work I actual find to be interesting, but my possibilites are limited (unless I take a paycut I can ill afford) until I can achieve certification. 
     

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