iSixSigma

BOA

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  • #33710

    Robart
    Member

    Has anyone heard anything positive regarding the six sigma initiative attempted and Bank of America or Microsoft?
    I have heard negative things but I did not understand why such large companies would have poor programs?
     
     

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    #91678

    Arby
    Participant

    No C-Level (CEO, CFO, etc.) buy-in to their program…that’s why it’s not highly thought of.
     

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    #91681

    Banking Engineer
    Participant

    Now that’s one of the most ridiculously ignorant comments I’ve see yet on this forum.  You notice I said ignorant, not stupid.  Ken Lewis just spoke at length about Six Sigma and it’s benefits to BoA at his Senior Leader Broadcast last Thursday.  If there was no commitment from the top, they wouldn’t be hiring MBB’s/BB’s from the top companies, with more openings from expansion of the program all the time.  MBB’s are actively prepped for high-level LOB positions after their tour, and those placements are actually occuring (several were just announced at our last meeting, creating more openings). Going to be even more demand for process engineering with the just-anounced merger!

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    #91683

    DaveG
    Participant

    Several recent posters have trashed BOA’s SS program.  I have no knowledge or opinion either way, I’m just curious how you would reconcile their position with yours.

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    #91686

    Schuette
    Participant

    This is only based on one data point, so consider the inference space.  My neighbor works for Boa and went through green belt training.  She was less than impressed with what she learned.  There was lots of talk about the number of babies dropped and undrinkable water, etc..  without much detail on how to apply 6-sigma in a transactional environment.  She did not see much value..Again, this is only one data point!  (Convinience Sampling)

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    #91710

    Ron
    Member

    It is unfortunate that an organization as large as BOA cannot get their act together.
    On the other hand I quit using BOA due to the poor service I received.
    By the way what is a “Banking Engineer”? This is a new one on me!!

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    #91716

    Banking Engineer
    Participant

    I reconcile the position by saying there are good and bad experiences in any company – you will find people that bash their experience with Motorola, GE, Ford, NCR, etc.  I’m not saying they are wrong – I wasn’t there with them. 
    If you look at several of the negative postings under different names, you see the same misspellings (ex. – freind)- BoA turns down many more applicants for MBB/BB than they hire.  Not data for a conclusion, but I could build a hypothesis……..

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    #91719

    luke skywalker
    Participant

    I’ve been with BoA for just under 2 years as an MBB and have had great exposure to the overall deployment and approach. I’m very impressed with the direction, and with the rate at which this organization has adopted the methodolgy at the top levels.
    Is the program perfect? No, but nothing is. The focus is correct; projects are aligned to strategic business goals with increasing effectiveness as time goes by and the organization is learning. I’ve watched the various threads where individuals have trashed the program and I feel sad for them. We all know there is great variation in “what is an MBB?” We’ve seen effective MBBs and not-so-effective ones. As the bank started out, many people were hired who carried MBB on their resumes. Now 2 years into the game, those who can do, those who massaged their resumes are leaving.
    The bank’s program is a good one, with very solid top level support. Those C-level folks are understanding what to expect from this methodology and it’s raising the expectations down through the organization. As with any top-down deloyment, it takes time to reach the front lines, so it should be no surprise that your local tellers are not well versed at this point. They are exposed to fundamental quality concepts, DMAIC terminology, and some lean concepts like kaizen. Not bad IMHO.

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    #91723

    Home grown
    Participant

    All, I am home grown black belt and have nothing negitive to say.  The vision is there, the players are being assembled (we still have to weed some out) and we are making good head way.  I have been with the bank for 15 years and have never seen this level of dedication to any other program.
    My two cents.
    Home grown

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    #91732

    DaveG
    Participant

    I was wondering what you thought about the people who painted a clear portrait of executive cluelessness – which, when suspected, is often present.

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    #91736

    Spiderman
    Member

    Luke Skywalker,
    You work for BoA….I have applied a couple of times…..but no word.  And I must admit, I am pretty good at what I do (BB/MBB).  Are you guys not hiring anymore Quality guys?

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    #91738

    Banking Engineer
    Participant

    My instructors way back always told me to get your own data – everything else is suspect.  No place is perfect, and BoA would not be growing with record profits if they were as bad as has been said.  The truth is somewhere in between.  My own opinion is that I like it here, we are doing it right, and defects in the process are corrected – not ignored.

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    #91739

    sw
    Member

    some BBs or MBBs. Our CEO likes to get the best quality professionals to work for BOA. The commitment form the management to six sigma is second to NONE! If you are a six sigma professional and know what you are doing, you will enjoy working for BOA.

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    #91740

    Spiderman
    Member

    Yep, am a Six Sigma professional and pretty darn good at what I do if I may say so myself.  And I know I would enjoy working in an environment where the executives believe in it and drive it throughout the business.  As you well know…the success is dependant on the drive from the top. 
    But keep in mind as well, I have worked with alot of Six Sigma professionals who were awesome in their analytical skillset, but were greatly deficient in the common sense business arena and forgot the customer focus in their ectasy of a well drawn out ANOVA or multiple regression. 

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    #91745

    Happy at the Bank
    Participant

    DaveG has a reasonable request for someone to reconcile all this negativity.  I have compiled a list of 13 specific issues that the recent negative contributors have provided.  Before I list these with rebuttals, I want to make 3 comments — (1) there have been some recent positive comments from folks at Bank of America, and these comments reflect the pride of what we have accomplished to date (and I must add within a short period of time) and what we are staged to accomplish in the future.  (2) Looking at the actual number of these negative comments over time, it appears that these comments may be classified as special cause.  I bet if we investigate these special causes, we will find some frustrated folks with an agenda.  And finally (3) — for those of you who are considering employment at Bank of America as a Six Sigma professional, do not be swayed by these comments. There are a tremendous amount of inaccuracies within these comments that are fueled by what I can only call a malignant agenda based on some defeciencies at a personal level.
    On that note, here are their issues:

    Interview process: in all fairness, I want to list this one first, since this does present some concern. Some of the specifics for this issue were: lack of HR knowledge about Six Sigma; the interviewers showed up late to the interview; and there were inconsistent responses to the question, “What are the 3 most important metrics?” Again, this does present some concern, and should be investigated.
    Change in the Six Sigma Leadership: Again, in all fairness, I want to keep this at the top, for it is true. BUT, this was not nor has it been a bad thing. There was nothing sordid nor malicious about this transition, and the new leadership has taken our program to the next level of higher performance.
    No CEO buy-in:  (two separate comments) This is absolutely not true.  In fact, I honestly believe that the Six Sigma community has a lot to gain with what Mr Lewis is doing with Six Sigma at Bank of America.  He is not promoting Six Sigma with just the infrequent “Six Sigma is Important” memorandum which spawns a lot of zealous but peripheral quant jocks with little to no mandate.  He is providing the leadership to transform the culture that is process-focused and data-driven.  The key word here is leadership — he is now a certified Green Belt, as well as his staff.  In fact, there are a significant number within his staff that are now pursuing their Black Belts. Back to my comment about boosting the Six Sigma community — the success that Mr Lewis is seeing (as well as the future success we will see) will breed a higher level of interest for other companies.
    The CEO did not do a real project:  This is also not true.  Mr. Lewis has successfully completed a project that has resulted in significant improvements. His staff has also completed projects. And I really must add that not only did they complete the projects, they also completed all the requirements for certification, including the training.  This is nothing short of phenomenal when we compare this with their peers at other companies — again, this points to the leadership that is not just supporting, or advocating, or… this is leadership by example.
    Living in Charlotte is bad:  Charlotte is not a bad place to live. Plus, they have a winning football team! I am tempted to call this a personal comment tempered by making a decision without considering all aspects of this decision.  If one is going to have to relocate for a new position, you would think an important part of this decision process includes evaluating the new digs.
    People who claim it’s great are overpaid and scared: Hmmm… I think it is great to be part of the Six Sigma efforts at Bank of America.  My compensation is well in line with what is provided within the Six Sigma community.  And I am definitely not scared. Shoot — if anything, I am nothing short of excited and ecstatic about what we are doing.
    Working for an insider with no knowledge about Six Sigma:  If this comment came from an MBB, I am extremely outraged. As an MBB, you have the responsibility of providing technical leadership for your supported function. If your organization has no knowledge about Six Sigma, then roll up the sleeves and determine how you are going to provide this. Work with these folks (note the word “with”) to educate and even inspire them about the methodology and tools. These insiders work for the same CEO, and this CEO has provided the leadership and direction regarding Six Sigma.  If you cannot operate as a successful MBB in this environment (and that includes imparting this Six Sigma knowledge), then… well, I am going to let you finish this thought.
    Broken promises on the relocation plan:  We are all adults. If you have ever had to go through a relocation process, you would know that it is all about negotiation, then documentation. This is the nature of the beast. If this is your first experience, then view this as a lesson learned.
    Personnel is a joke:  I know quite a few folks within Personnel, and a majority of these are very active in Six Sigma. I have found them to be very professional, knowledgeable people who enjoy working at Bank of America. Perhaps the commentor was at the wrong end of a performance related discussion.
    BB/MBB is a lifetime role:  I reckon this could be true, if we measure the program’s life in dog years. This program has been here for just over 2 years.
    BB/MBBs not in leadership positions: Another issue that is not true. A number of MBBs are now integrated within key Bank of America businesses and functions as established and recognized leaders. This is in alignment with the direction that the CEO is providing.
    Savings are not real: The savings are real. In fact, Finance has a very active role within Six Sigma, and this role continues to expand.  I do not know if it is permissible for me to state the savings, so I will not.  But, I will add that there are a lot of 0’s in these savings that would make all Six Sigma programs envious!
    Neighbor has been trained and just knows about dropping babies and water: The commentor needs to chat more with his/her neighbor. Based on what they have described, the neighbor has not been through the full training regimen.  And I really must add that this training does not include dropped babies, or drops of water, or short/long landings.
    I have a tremendous amount of passion towards what we are doing at Bank of America. We have seen incredible gains in a short period of time, and our leadership will take us to even greater gains in the future. If you have a chance to work with this program, I strongly urge you to consider it.

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    #91755

    Ren
    Participant

    Happy,
    Thanks for sharing your comments on the Bank. I’m pleased to see your enthusiasm for your Six Sigma program. It makes me feel good as a SS professional. Keep up the good work.
    Ren

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    #91765

    DaveG
    Participant

    Thanks for a thoughtful, well-structured response.  Let’s hear facts from the sourpusses!

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    #91778

    Bank Belt
    Participant

    Amen!
    I’m a home-grown belt, been here 10 years. Six Sigma has changed, is changing this company. This is only the beginning. I suspect that the naysayers are either just generally unhappy people, or they have  personal agendas. I personally am very proud to work here and to be part of the Six Sigma revolution here.

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    #91783

    Ron
    Member

    It is nice to hear from an internal employee, however, sometimes your view is slightly motivated by your personal situation.
    Can you tell us how many of your companies metrics are now reported utilizing sixsigma criteria?
    How many of your senior executives have completed training and project work?
    Is there a BOA scorecard that you can share to show the improvement efforts?
    Success must be measured by demonstrating compliance.. Can BOA do that?

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    #91807

    Saherngu
    Participant

    Bank of America seems to have had a big spurt of energy in the six sigma area about two years ago.. If history proves itself out about now the excitement has gone and BOA is on to something else.. I have not heard anything going on excpet I see a lot of job ads which to me indicates that the original people either left or the “home” grown people are not supporting the effort.
    I know some of the principles BOA hired for this effort and some are top notch other are well to be kind “wanna be’s”.
    Thats all I can contribute.
    Thanks,

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    #91808

    Banking Engineer
    Participant

    No professional is going to put internal metrics up on a public forum.  The measure of success is not compliance – simply complying can be the road to ruin – it is the success of the company, which includes/requires customer satisfaction, employee satisfaction, and shareholder satisfaction. 
    Six Sigma will contribute to the success or failure of those metrics depending on management execution of the SS deployment.  The BoA associates who have posted in reply to negative messages have said that in our opinion as SS professionals, BoA is moving in the right direction.  One non-random set of biased data about a still-young program.

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    #91821

    John J. McDonough
    Participant

    “excpet (sic) I see a lot of job ads which to me indicates that the original people either left or the “home” grown people are not supporting the effort.”
    Or else BoA has done some acquisitions (which they have) and their current population of BBs is gainfully employed already, so they need more capacity.
    –McD
     

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    #91850

    Kelly T
    Participant

    second to none?  Come on now….that program (I used to work there) could not hold Allied or GE’s jockstrap.  Get with it would you!

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    #91870

    Banking Engineer
    Participant

    If you view job ads as data that tells you the original people have left, or the home-grown aren’t working out, you are either very poorly trained, or stumbled on this forum by accident.
    Don’t do any project work by yourself – you may injure someone.

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    #91893

    DaveG
    Participant

    If you view job ads as data that tells you the original people have left, or the home-grown aren’t working out, you are either very poorly trained, or stumbled on this forum by accident.
    I’m more sympathetic to your viewpoint than Jim’s, but don’t give half a response:  spell out the missing data (there is more SS work than BBs to do it).
    I think it’s better to be redundant or obvious than leave people guessing.  Do you agree?

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    #91897

    Super Superior Bankinbg Engine
    Member

    I think everyone knows where you stand….

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    #91898

    Banking Engineer
    Participant

    Well Dave, I guess I didn’t feel the need to treat graffiti as an actual problem statement or request for six sigma information.  I respect anyone’s right to voice opinions about poor experiences at any particular companies, because they do happen, and can be a valuable tool when assessing employment opportunities.  But some of these bathroom-wall posting of non-specific rants are a bit tiresome.
    Back to your point – yes, you are right.  Specifying what actual data should look like would have been more constructive. 

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    #91899

    DaveG
    Participant

    BE,
    Your posting style and content are consistently superior.  I guess the “graffitiosi” are trying to balance the scales.
    I’d like to hear about the BOA 6S program in greater detail, publicly or privately.  [email protected]

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    #91904

    Spiderman
    Member

    Kelly,
    You used to work at the BoA quality department?  Can you tell…what it was like….why do you say they couldnt hold a candle to Allied or GE?  I used to work with GE as a BB/MBB…..just curious as to the differences, etc.

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    #92066

    Crowther
    Participant

    Let me address the savings are real comment…..yes, there are a lot of 0’s in the numbers….that would be 0 for zero savings aka soft, “feel good” dollars…I left the bank 3 months ago because, like some on this forum have  stated, the program is a joke, best thing I have ever done.  I was personally involved with many projects where finance did not buy in, nor was the “C” level project in my LOB real…it was done by an MBB for the leader of the LOB…in fact I know he had trouble even getting time to review the “project” with the “green belt”…I am not bitter, nor caught in a bad performance review, I just opened my eyes, saw the obvious, and got the hell out.  I wish everyone still there the best, but don’t use this forum as an opportunity to continue to fool yourself…take a look around you….or better yet, go to green belt training and observe the level of knowledge of the majority of the instructors…they put the “green” in green belt.

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    #92111

    Ken Feldman
    Participant

    Mark, as one of those “green” instructors, I take exception to your comment.  I have been a quality professional since 1970, have a dual Ph.D. in Industrial Engineering and Psychology, a MSIE and an MBA.  I have been consulting in Quality Improvement since 1984 and had the honor of having Dr. Deming on my Doctoral Committee.  I have worked with a number of the leading SS consulting groups and received my MBB at GE Capital.  IMHO, the effort here at BOA is better than what I left at GE (given where we are on the learning curve) and better than the bulk of the clients I have worked with over the years.  I am sure I am but a mere amateur compared to you but feel my opinions might have some value.  While there is variation in everything, including the SS Instructor group I am proud to be working with a knowledgable and capable bunch of folks.

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    #95422

    A_MAN
    Participant

    Hello:
    I am looking for someone from Bank of America to share their success story in a publication. Would you be kind enough to contact me at [email protected].
    Regards,
    A_MAN

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    #96116

    Bbless
    Participant

    Excellent summary and realistic of my personal experiences.  6sigma tkaes time to implement.

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    #99962

    results?
    Participant

    BE – any update on all these so called “promotions” you spoke of back in October?  Being a shareholder, I perused my annual report and failed to notice much in the way on promotions to LOB leadership roles from the six sigma ranks….as a matter fact, care to comment on the continuing outflow of the “top talent” brought in from outside the org?  Please don’t tell us it’s not happening or that they were not “good people”.  What is the attrition rate from the Q&P world? 

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