Can I propose Recommendation to improve without data
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Mick.
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May 23, 2005 at 10:03 am #39439
PRASHANTHParticipant@PRASHANTHInclude @PRASHANTH in your post and this person will
be notified via email.Hi Can I propose Recommendation to improve CP without data analysis? I’m asking this question because i’m unable find precise data or there is no data. But sometimes i feel that a specific recommendation will work and surely improve the process/product.I’m working on Improving productivity of employess/ team. this is my 1st black belt project.thanks in advance
prashanth0May 23, 2005 at 12:37 pm #119942
indreshParticipant@indreshInclude @indresh in your post and this person will
be notified via email.dear prashanth
yes surely you can do, in fact experience counts
but when you follow a Six Sigma rigor, its improvement methodology based on data and root causes identified based on valid set of figures. this shall be aiming it correctly and shooting the arrow to have almost surity that it will hit the bull’s eye
your gut feel may or may not be the exact solution.
if you have undergone the training (even basics of Six Sigma) then you must be knowing ” everything can be measured, and till we measure we can’t improve”. do a QFD to link your output to measurable inputs and then collect data
and still if you have the same question, i suggest undergo the six sigma training once again …………no pun intended
rgds0May 23, 2005 at 1:03 pm #119943
PRASHANTHParticipant@PRASHANTHInclude @PRASHANTH in your post and this person will
be notified via email.indreshYou are right, what you say makes sense.
Will do that.rgrds
-prashanth0May 23, 2005 at 7:14 pm #119986
Mike CarnellParticipant@Mike-CarnellInclude @Mike-Carnell in your post and this person will
be notified via email.Prashanth,
The answer is you can do anything you can get away with. The question is should you do it. Someone is paying you to do a job and you aren’t doing it.
If you want to do that kind of stuff and aren’t willing to put in the effort to figure out how to follow the methodology get out of the Six Sigma program and make room for someone who is willing to do the work.
Personally if I were running your deployment you would be gone already. You’re just the same old story, different chapter.
Just my opinion.0May 23, 2005 at 7:25 pm #119988
Mike CarnellParticipant@Mike-CarnellInclude @Mike-Carnell in your post and this person will
be notified via email.indresh,
That was a crap piece of advice.
You need to spend some more time figuring out what you are doing and less time with the cute little pieces of dogma that you apparently don’t understand.
Rationalize the two staements:
“yes surely you can do, in fact experience counts” and
“everything can be measured, and till we measure we can’t improve”
If you believe the little piece of dogma about everything can be measured then why would you think that you don’t have to back up experience with data. The wost part is the first guy thinks you gave him absolution. He is running around his process changing stuff with his eyes closed using the force to figure out where he will do “Six Sigma” next.
The worst part is he will be on here in a couple weeks handing out the crap advice your giving.0May 23, 2005 at 8:33 pm #120002
Dr. ScottParticipant@Dr.-ScottInclude @Dr.-Scott in your post and this person will
be notified via email.Prashanth,
Can I propose Recommendation to improve CP without data analysis?
No! Why would you even consider such a think without proof? Perhaps you are thinking in terms of “quick hits”. But even they require some level of proof via data.
I’m asking this question because i’m unable find precise data or there is no data.
If you can’t find the data. then go get the data. As far as “precise” goes, have you heard of the concept of MSA?
But sometimes i feel that a specific recommendation will work and surely improve the process/product.
All those around you “FEEL” the same thing. The did before you got there and do now. They feel a “specific” recommendation will work. How the heck do you know or they know what will work? By asking this question, you sound as inept as any other decision maker or idea maker. You should have, after your first week of training, know MUCH better than to aske such a question. There are quick hits, but they still require some data to prove. Even if after the fact.
I am sorry if I appear harsh. But you would be a concern if you were one of my students. But please accept my advice, and best of luck on your project and certification.
Dr. Scott.0May 24, 2005 at 4:36 am #120009
PRASHANTHParticipant@PRASHANTHInclude @PRASHANTH in your post and this person will
be notified via email.Thanks To everyone you have given their time and valuable suggestion.
First thing is i have not taken Six Sigma lightly. I’m doing justice to the work. I have used all methodologies to collect/validate the same.
I have given many action recommendations with proof of data. I was having some more suggestions which can improve process before i close the project. So i thought if i think in those line where i recommend action without data. Anyways Thanks again.
Dr. Scott – You have said it right, “There are quick hits, but they still require some data to prove.”0May 24, 2005 at 4:37 am #120011
indreshParticipant@indreshInclude @indresh in your post and this person will
be notified via email.mike carnell.
you sound as if prior to six sigma people were as idiot and blindfolded as you are now. they never felt the need of experience to take their decision on
you can’t tell upfront to anybody who is new to six sigma that his experience holds no importance, i hope you are not teaching anywhere. anyways i do take your point and have also written the same that one should have some mesaurables for which one should collect data and then proceed since data only can give validity to your assumption and thereby increase your chances of not making an error
hope you don’t collect data in your personal life ?????, just a thought and advice to share with you
enjoy
cheers
0May 24, 2005 at 4:42 am #120013indresh,
your advice is that you hope Mike is not teaching and not collecting data is his personal life?
Pretty stupid advice.0May 24, 2005 at 4:46 am #120014
indreshParticipant@indreshInclude @indresh in your post and this person will
be notified via email.you got it wrong buddy, seem to be a diciple of mike are you ??? ;-)
cheers0May 24, 2005 at 4:51 am #120015I don’t have it wrong buddy, read your own words.
0May 24, 2005 at 6:54 pm #120049
Mike CarnellParticipant@Mike-CarnellInclude @Mike-Carnell in your post and this person will
be notified via email.Stan is far from a disciple of mine. He is the one that introduced me to Quality as a profession.
0May 24, 2005 at 6:59 pm #120050
Mike CarnellParticipant@Mike-CarnellInclude @Mike-Carnell in your post and this person will
be notified via email.indresh,
You need to stop trying to be so profound. It isn’t working for you.
“you sound as if prior to six sigma people were as idiot and blindfolded as you are now. they never felt the need of experience to take their decision on”
Not only do you give crappy advice you have a comprehension problem as well.
As far as my personal life – it’s none of your business. I have seen your advice and you might do better not to share it.0May 24, 2005 at 7:08 pm #120052
Ken FeldmanParticipant@DarthInclude @Darth in your post and this person will
be notified via email.Oxymoron: Quality as a profession.
Stan is so old he probably introduced Shewhart to control charts.0May 24, 2005 at 7:09 pm #120053I say this….. In God we Trust – All others must provide data.
0May 24, 2005 at 7:09 pm #120054
Ken FeldmanParticipant@DarthInclude @Darth in your post and this person will
be notified via email.Mike, keep it up and you too might have your very own J O Club and groupies.
0May 24, 2005 at 7:16 pm #120055
Ken FeldmanParticipant@DarthInclude @Darth in your post and this person will
be notified via email.We don’t need no stink’in data….we have experience, intuition and gut feelings. Data is for the weak kneed and chicken hearted. Any experienced engineer can look at a spreadsheet of rows and columns of numbers and tell all there is about the process. Statistical analysis is for the feeble minded and weak of will. Furthermore, we don’t need coherent and grammatically correct writing either. Any combination of words should be able to convey what we mean and if you can’t understand then you must be an idiot….except for Vinny who puts together brilliantly crafted dialogs but alas, even those are misunderstood by his Padiwan FNG….XXXXXXX New Guy or new Belt or New York or whoever that vitrual buddy of his is.
0May 24, 2005 at 7:26 pm #120059
Mike CarnellParticipant@Mike-CarnellInclude @Mike-Carnell in your post and this person will
be notified via email.Darth,
I couldn’t take it. I watch you deal with yours and it is like adult day care. You have my most sincere respect.
Normally when I read stuff like this I just go to the bathroom and wash my mouth out to get rid of the rancid taste. Every now and then a person has to call it like you see it. There wasn’t enough mouth wash in the world to fix this garbage masquerading as enlightenment.
Regards
0May 24, 2005 at 7:30 pm #120060
Mike CarnellParticipant@Mike-CarnellInclude @Mike-Carnell in your post and this person will
be notified via email.Darth,
Vinny was particularly eloquent last night. I have admit I did laugh the hardest when he got to the part about reaching through the monitor.
His BOD meeting could be interesting.
Regards0May 24, 2005 at 9:17 pm #120067Prashanth,
Don’t think anyone answered your second question: the answer’s still no, don’t do it. Why would you want to give back all the data-driven gains you implemented in Improve by implementing “improvements” in Control based on gut feel?
(Answer for the rhetorically challenged: you wouldn’t.)
Chris0May 24, 2005 at 9:27 pm #120068Mike, I know this is not my thread, however it seems like you are against dogma and BS. That’s all I got. IYHO can I still make a quick buck and get out before I’m caught?
Ps. Who’s your virtual buddy?
Stevo
0May 24, 2005 at 9:47 pm #120071
Mike CarnellParticipant@Mike-CarnellInclude @Mike-Carnell in your post and this person will
be notified via email.Stevo,
Close. Usually the quality of advice is pretty subjective. In this case the subjectivity was gone. The complete stupidity of the answer was being camouflaged with cute little sound bites to make it sound enlightened.
In general you got it.
Can you make a quick buck? Of course – there is always a market for style over substance but it is typically a one time shot at that customer and referals are hard to come by. I would rather put my work into the deployment rather than the marketing.
I’ve seen enough of your posts that I don’t think you would be willing to deliver just style.
What is IYHO? Having to ask that can make a person feel old.
Regards0May 24, 2005 at 10:21 pm #120074It means In Your Humble Opinion – I think he has you confused with Mikel or Reigle.
0May 24, 2005 at 10:30 pm #120075
Ken FeldmanParticipant@DarthInclude @Darth in your post and this person will
be notified via email.Stevo, unfortunately Mike has many imaginery friends especially after tipping back a few. Also, as a schizophrenic, he is never without someone so he probably doesn’t need a new virtual buddy.
Of course you can make a lot of money with dogma and BS. Remember “style above substance” will always rule. Just keep the engine running and cash all client checks quickly and move the funds to the offshore account..0May 24, 2005 at 10:32 pm #120076
Ken FeldmanParticipant@DarthInclude @Darth in your post and this person will
be notified via email.I never thought to associate the word Humble with Carnell. Possibly the Humble Telescope or Humble Pie or Humble Bumble. But since Carnell is your mentor, at least according to one poster, you can tell us better as to whether he is really humble or not.
0May 24, 2005 at 10:36 pm #120077Last time I checked, neither one of us had room for more than one opinion. Doesn’t leave room for a humble one in addition to your real one.
I personally leave the humble crap to the cowboys who start their introduction with shucks, I’m just an old farm boy from Ohio.0May 24, 2005 at 10:56 pm #120078Prashanth,
Its your business, but consider these points:If the improvement is so obvious that it can be done without data or expense, why hasn’t it been done already?
Who would believe that you’ve improved anything if you don’t have data? Hopefully not your auditor, or the guys who hands out the bonuses, or your CEO.
How do you stop the next person from coming along and undoing what you did? They might have an idea to save a couple of cents by using less of a consumable that your idea requires and lose the dollars saved by your idea. Data is the only way. (Anecdotal evidence usually doesn’t count, but if its all you have the budget for its better than nothing. Find a way to turn the stories into data: The yellow ones taste better than the orange ones because 4 out of 5 dentists agree that they do.)
If the idea does cost money how are you going to convince the money guys to spend it? (No evidence means you have to get them very drunk first.)
Talk to your Master Black Belt about how to measure team productivity. I’ll bet they have ideas specific to your project.0 -
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