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Chicken soup …

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  • #51498

    Someone recently asked me to comment on the quality of two brands of soup. Both brands taste OK, but one brand has 3% chicken and 3% chicken fat, while the other has 38% chicken and 2% chicken fat.I told him I couldn’t comment on the quality without knowing anything about variability.He said there was sufficient information because most people would regard 100% chicken as ideal.Any comments …

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    #178587

    RC
    Participant

    What does the ISSC (International Soup Standards Commission) have to say about the specifications for the composition of chicken soup? 100% chicken is chicken, not soup.

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    #178603

    Sloan
    Participant

    …So thisΒ person is looking for a one-dimensional quality gage for soup, that being the percentage of chicken? That’s dumb. I also have some standards about what is NOT in the soup like, no bug parts or rat hairs or poo from any kind of animal. I would not consider chicken soup with 50% chicken and 50% chicken poop to be anywhere near acceptable.
    Perhaps this person needs to go and gather some VOC to determine what customers REALLY expect in chicken soup then come up with a recipe and some CTQ’s designed to meet those expectations.
    (100% chicken as ideal for soup? please…)
    Β 

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    #178605

    GB
    Participant

    What if the chicken looked like this though?
    100% of this is still a no-go.

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    #178608

    Taylor
    Participant

    Dude-Thats just ——Dude ——-Wrong

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    #178613

    Gruel
    Participant

    Is that chicken imported or homegrown?

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    #178615

    MrMHead
    Participant

    Let me guess – That’s a genetic defect from the Boneless Chicken Farm.

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    #178620

    Ignacio Gomez
    Participant

    Hello Andy.
    A good explanation for your soup friend is, prior to identify what is quality for him (taste or flavor, healthiness, chicken percentage, calories, etc) once defined is easy to determine which of your 2 alternatives is the best for that customer.
    Is likeΒ pretending to say that M&M’s are quality chocolates… maybe for the American legislation, but European consider them as a bad quality product (they can not call them chocolates) because they ask for a minimum cacao % and that’s why the M&M’s formula is different in America and in Europe.
    So first establish quality parameters and then evaluate them.
    Regards!
    Ignacio

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    #178621

    GomezAdams
    Participant

    Ignacio,
    We left off telling you that M&Ms are nothing more than cleverly disguised rabbit pellets.

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    #178622

    Ignacio Gomez
    Participant

    Now I perfectly understand that second/hand flavor once you swallow them!
    BTW i hate canned chicken soup

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    #178625

    Nolan
    Participant

    Your M&M vs European chocolate example has nothing to do with quality – that is a matter of taste – or preference.
    Quality is a measure of how well one meets customer expectations.
    Therefore if the customer wanted M&M’s then M&M’s would be of excellent quality.

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    #178626

    Ignacio Gomez
    Participant

    Hi Les! Maybe I didnt explain my point very well. The M&M example was reffering to the same brand in two different countries, so in America the M&M’s meet American expectations and in Europe they do the same but with a different formulation.
    And a taste, flavorΒ or prefference is a customer expectation where you can set USL and LSL, dont you think that?
    Cheers!
    IG

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    #178627

    Baker
    Participant

    The M+M’s are most certainly a quality issue since the local governments are deciding the minimum standards.Β  That is, they want to know how to define / what metrics are used to determine a “chocolate”.Β Β Anything above these percentagesΒ “meet” the minimum specifications.Β  Anything above that must be judged according to new standards.Β  It is the same definition of what is “healthy” or “green”.Β  An area that lawyers are quite good at arguing about.

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    #178632

    Hi Ignacio,I understand what you mean about the quality of M&Ms or even English chocolate .. as we now tend to buy ‘real’ chocolate from mainland Europe.When I asked my family about this question, they all said the soup with the highest chicken content had the highest quality. Only one person qualified their answer by asking what chicken bits were used … Perhaps they all made some assumptions about basic quality, but are led by excitors.Cheers,
    Andy

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    #178636

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    Ignacio Gomez,
    Your M&M example doesn’t make any sense. Judging “quality” by taking a product produced for one market to another market and labeling it bad quality wouldn’t pass any type of logic test.
    We had a similar issue at Motorola in terms of soldering. There were commercial specifications, weapons specifications and aerospace specifications. There was the perception that commercial was poor quality and aerospace was the best. You build the product for the market. Amazingly enought the aerospace stuff would not have passed the commercial specs. Aerospace was concerned with weight so solder joints were smaller. In the commercial world they would have been considered insufficient solder. You can only judge this stuff by what it built to.
    Just my opinion.

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    #178638

    Hi Ignacio,I know what you mean about chocolate – I no longer buy English chocolate – it is far inferior to French or Swiss chocolate.Most people I’ve asked about quality seem to be using an intuitive Kano model, where they assume a basic quality, but are led by excitors, such as 70% chocolate solids.Many years ago someone I knew at Motorola, Skip Mencio, told me the best book he’d read about Quality was “Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance.”http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirsig%27s_metaphysics_of_qualityAnyway, it got me thinking about my basic assumptions again.

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    #178639

    My link didn’t appear to work very well, so I’ve taken the liberty of cutting and pasting an interesting summary of Pirsig’s views on Quality.Quality”Quality,” or “value,” as described by Pirsig, cannot be defined because it empirically precedes any intellectual constructions. It is the “knife-edge” of experience, known to all. “What distinguishes good and bad writing? Do we need to ask this question of Lysias or anyone else who ever did write anything?” (Plato’s Phaedrus, 258d).Likening it with the Tao, Pirsig believes that Quality is the fundamental force in the universe stimulating everything from atoms to animals to evolve and incorporate ever greater levels of Quality. According to the MOQ, everything (including the mind, ideas, and matter) is a product and a result of Quality.

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    #178651

    Ignacio Gomez
    Participant

    Hello Mike! I understand perfectly your Motorola’s example because I work for a company that manufactures solder products (wire, paste and wave) and fluxes and something similar happened with Boeing and Nokia… the same base product for different applications (we adapted each one for each customer requirement).
    My intention in the original post was not to judge one brand’s quality, was to clarify that quality is not only one measurement or one attribute… quality is composed for what your customer wants, needs, perceives, and so on….
    Thanks for enrich the discussion, regards!
    Ignacio
    Β 

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    #178652

    MrMHead
    Participant

    “Pirsig believes that Quality is the fundamental force in the universe stimulating everything from atoms to animals to evolve and incorporate ever greater levels of Quality.”
    Would Entropy then be the Yin of the Quality Yang?

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    #178654

    Nolan
    Participant

    Isn’t that exactly what I said?

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    #178655

    Nolan
    Participant

    Ignacio – yes, I agree with that interpretation of what you said.
    Jason – govt regs don’t establish quality for a consumer product – the consumer does. He buys it or he doesn’t.

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    #178656

    Nolan
    Participant

    See Andy U, you are missing the point again. You can’t say “..English choc is far inferior to…”. By whose standards? What you canΒ say is “I prefer French choc…”. There are no absolutes relate to preferences.

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    #178657

    Nolan
    Participant

    I like the quote however don’t follow why the word “Quality” is used in it vs “Adaptation”. Evolution has nothing to do with Quality – it has everything to do with environment and reward/punishment outcomes.

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    #178660

    I’m not sure …Has anyone identified an organizing principle in nature?’ What I find interesting about my Chinese friend’s proposition is everyone I’ve asked believe an 18 carat gold ring is of higher quality than 9 carat gold, everything else being equal.In other words, Quality is more than the Loss to society, but includes a sense of fidelity, purity, the genuine, etc.If we can’t measure these characteristics, then it’s hardly surprising some people have leveraged credit up to 50 times!!!

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    #178663

    Les,I’m not on my own in taking this position:http://finechocolateindustry.org/index.php?tpl=chocolate-standardsIn fact, there are many examples where an ‘educated opinion’ favors a particular product, cuisine, style of music, etc.Cheers,
    Andy

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    #178668

    GB
    Participant

    At the end of the day, it’s still just a Likert scale, subject to the whims of the respondants at that point in time.Β Β 
    The real answer is, “What does your particular Customer group value at the time you ask them?”
    VoC/QFD.

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    #178669

    Nolan
    Participant

    No doubt Andy. There is certainly a broad industry of “experts” who would like to tell us what we are to like. From movies to books to food to autos to …. But they are muda. We like what we each like and someone telling me this choc is of better “quality” than this one is bogus. I’ll taste them and choose myself.
    My point is – there is no absolute as to quality with personal preference issues.

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    #178674

    Les,I’m sympathetic to your view as there are plenty of ‘fine’ foods I would never try, and never buy – even if I could afford it.I did find a report on the internet this morning you might find interesting, unfortunately I’ve lost the link in Firefox due to my privacy settings.From memory, Toyota do exactly what you suggest and have three tiers of vehicles. One is for sale in the USA and Europe, the other in the Middle-East, and the third in China, or something like that.Apparently this had led to some complaints about ‘lower quality’ cars going to China, but Toyota counters this is only due to differences in territorial laws – emission control, etc. On the positive side they emphasize the ‘third tier’ cars are easier to maintain, etc.Sorry I couldn’t find the article again.Cheers,
    Andy

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