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Counting Manufacturing Opportunities

Six Sigma – iSixSigma Forums Old Forums General Counting Manufacturing Opportunities

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  • #35828

    Stephen
    Member

    I’m working on creating step-by-step manufacturing instructions to put our project in to production. I’m counting the opportunities involved in assembling each component. I was wondering if their was a standard for counting opportunities. Especially for electrical components and wiring. Any help will be much appreciated.

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    #101596

    Savage
    Participant

    Parts + Connections = Opportunities

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    #101612

    Dog Sxxx
    Participant

    I think you have to get feedback from your process and product people and more importantly from your customers on all defect info before you declare them as your defect opportunities.
    Using an industry standard such as IPC-A-610 to define defect opportunities is an overkilled effort.

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    #101619

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    Stephen,
    Matt’s advice is all you really need. It doesn’t have to be any more complicated than that.
    Good Luck.

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    #101639

    Dog Sxxx
    Participant

    Unlikely the poster has zero knowledge on the PCB defects must come from the part and connection. Reread the poster’s question before you give such an advice.

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    #101640

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    Dog Sxxx,
    “Unlikely the poster has zero knowledge on the PCB defects must come from the part and connection.” That is a arrogant interpretation but at least you are consistent.
    Parts plus connections is the most common and conservative approach that keeps people from plying the denominator manipulation game. If I remember correctly you are not a belt of any type so at best a Champion or maybe not qualified in any way – so where have you had experience doing op counts?

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    #101661

    Stephen
    Member

    I’m actually an engineering intern. I’m am studying Ocean engineering but am working on a manufacturing project for a ROV. Most of my coworkers are green belts. For the most part counting has been easy. We have been following a company standard work instruction Howe ever it is vague is various areas. Because we have to fallow military standards we have extra steps involved with wiring especially, ex labels. I was really looking for reference material to help in counting. The biggest thing is I don’t want to over count opportunities. I’m going to look at IPC-A-610 see what it has to say. Thank for the help. Also if there is any other references out there I would like to see theme.  

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    #101663

    Peppe
    Participant

    Hi,
    sound strange that you are working on Military products, whitout detailed reference.
    Anyway, for military products the reference are MIL-STD.
    What you have to define is OFD (opportunities for defects) that for electronic is normally : components + soldering + wiring + SW (if present).
    Regards,
    Peppe

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    #101673

    Dog Sxxx
    Participant

    Another idiotic and ignorance talking from a so-called MBB trained by Motorola. Only belt holers know the part counting woh!! I was hired by your American MNCs to inspect and qualify thier Asian OEM suppliers for years. I personally check more boards than your number of postings here. 

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    #101676

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    Stephan,
    When most of the SS methodology was put together a lot of work was done around the Military hardware we built at the Government Electronics Group in Scottsdale, Arizona. At that time the government specs didn’t address opportunity counting – they were basically auditing to compliance to specifications. They were moving towards process auditing but it was slow.
    The basic idea is that the opportunities are to get the correct part and make a good connection. If there is lead forming those opportunities belong to that operation. Same idea one opportunity for the correct part one opportunity for each bend. If you actually try some of the different ideas around opportunity counting you will find that it is difficult to make a large enough difference in the count to shift the sigma value. The logic has always been to keep it simple, keep it clean and maintain a position of integrity by being on the conservative side. If over-stating it won’t shift it much neither will under-stating it. It is pretty basic you get paid to do the job once and to do it right – it is the opportunity to do it correctly not the number of ways it can be done incorrectly.
    Where this gets off track is arround through hole components and people want to count the top and bottom joints as separate opportunities, and some other oddities like that. Another discussion is around it isn’t an opportunity unless you test or inspect for it which makes no sense at all. All these things are a lot more trouble than they are worth.
    I don’t remember if Mario Perez Wilson addresses opportunity counting in his book “Six Sigma” but it is basically a spin of the work that was done on the FMU 139 program we did in the middle 80’s. It was military hardware in a Six Sigma environment so it may help you.
    If you need some help you can contact me at [email protected].
    Regards,
    Mike

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    #101679

    Savage
    Participant

    Stephen,
    If you insist on using an IPC spec, look at IPC 7912 and IPC 9261. They call out the requirements for opportunity counting and calculating DPMO, PPM and OMI.
    IPC-A-610 is used for PCBAs.  IPC-A-620 is used for wires and wire assemblies.

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    #101680

    Savage
    Participant

    Dog Sxxx,
    I’m curious, how do you define opportunities on a PCBA??

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    #101684

    Dog Sxxx
    Participant

    It’s simple and straight forward, my US clients wanted all their subcons to follow IPC manual. Anything not mention in the manual means that is not a defect opportunity.

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    #101690

    todgren
    Member

    Ouch…  another goofy one.

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    #101705

    SJ
    Member

    Dog Sxxx,
     
    You’re an inspector dude. NVA.

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    #101709

    Savage
    Participant

    I asked how YOU define opportunities – not your client.  What would you do if there were no IPC spec to follow?
     

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    #101719

    SJ
    Member

    Matt,
     
    Give him a break. The guy is an inspector they recite specs no thinking going on.
     
    SJ

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    #101720

    Dog Sxxx
    Participant

    Do you think you can buy PCBA without any specificition either internally generated by the buyers or using an industry standard?
    Do you know many types of defects can be found in PCBA without any spec? Answer me first before I answer your silly question?
     

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    #101721

    Savage
    Participant

    I agree you need an internal or industry spec for the purchase of PCBAs.  I also agree that many defects can be found without an industry spec.  As for my “silly” question, I was just curious how you define opportunities for a PCBA?  In one post, you say that IPC-A-610 is “overkilled effort” when defining opportunities.  In another post you said it is “simple and straightforward – to use IPC-A-610” 
    I am just looking for clarification.

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    #101723

    Dog Sxxx
    Participant

    The original poster can choose all defects listed in the IPC manual as his/her defect opportunity as wish, but you as an expert shall know that not all defects listed can be found in a specified type of PCBA. As a practioner, go work out a realistic defect opportunity level by talking to your internal and external customers who have profound process and design knowledge on that PCBA.
    May be for some theorists, the goal is getting lowest DPMO as possible and try to impress their management. 
     
     

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    #101724

    Dog Sxxx
    Participant

    I forget to tell you that my US clients were a bit lazy to define separate defect category for their separate product line and prefer to use the IPC manual as a full blanket standard to cover their “assholes”.

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    #101730

    Dog Sxxx
    Participant

    Oppp..I can still get value added to my pocket. I did suggest to my clients got some low pay operators to do such NVA task, but they declined my suggestion and instead they were willing to pay USD 40 per hour rate for doing such NVA. I am no longer in the inspection line because I can earn more in other jobs.
     

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    #101731

    Savage
    Participant

    You’re an idiot.

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    #101741

    Peppe
    Participant

    Matt,
    I believe Dog Sxxx, simply, have never seen and worked really around PCBA and electronic area, so he haven’t any idea of what he is talking about. 
    Rgs,
    Peppe.

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