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Destructive MSA

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  • #46635

    Cecilia
    Participant

    Hi All,
    I am seeking advise on running a destructive MSA.  The samples that I need to test is on adhesive and I am using force gauge to measuer its peel strength. Questions I have is how do I measure for repeatabilty? Can I group few samples as one group and assumming this group of sample will be represenatative of repeatability? how many samples will be more represenatative for this kind of study? Any advise or experience are welcomed.
    Thanks,
    Cecil

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    #154442

    accrington
    Participant

    There is an example in “Design and Analysis of Experiments” by Doug Montgomery. He’s also published some papers in the Journal of Quality Technology. Do a search on Google.
    Gage R&R ( Nested) in MINITAB can be used for such studies (read Help), also pages 143 – 144 in AIAG handbook gives some guidance.
     

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    #154447

    accrington
    Participant

    Sorry! The Montgomery articles are in Quality Engineering, not JQT

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    #154459

    Mikel
    Member

    The example of a nested design in Quality Improvement Through
    Planned Experimentation by Ronald D. Moen, Thomas W. Nolan and
    Lloyd P. Provost. 2nd Edition 1998 is a destructive R&R. It’s one of the
    better examples I know.

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    #154472

    Ropp
    Participant

    The mentioned examples are very good. One other is a paper written by Donald Wheeler. You can get it from his website.

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    #154475

    ezweld
    Participant

    Cecilia,
    What type of adhesive are you testing?
    I am using a MEK solvent base common in the the wire and cable.
    I am looking into doing other types of testing of the adhesive.
    Can you post how you are testing your adhesive?
    Gage R&R ( Nested) in MINITAB is what I’m using for a MSA.

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    #154484

    Cecilia
    Participant

    Thanks for the response, will search for those papers that you guys recommend.
    Yes, I am also using the same type of adhesive MEK solvent base from 3M. I did my test on my application directly, which holds a pc-based material to an aluminium plate. I am using a fixture/clamp to hold my sample and push to failure using Instron machine.
    Thanks for all the feedback.
     
    Regards,Cecil
     

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    #154492

    ezweld
    Participant

    That’s too funny I’m using an Instron to pull my samples apart.
    I do a 180 peel bond test but I want to just to test the adhesive alone.
    The only adhesive testing we do is viscosity and soilids.
    Did you get your fixture from Instron or is it custom?

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    #154565

    Marz
    Participant

    You brought up one very good point in your initial post, nested Gage R+R’s assume the samples are identical. Any part to part variation will show up as gage variation in your test. If you have good confidence that your part variaiton is low, you might be able to overlook this requirement.
    If you are trying to determine the repeatability of your fixture and Instron, could you use a substrate and overlay with known and consistent pull strength?
     

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    #154605

    Talaid
    Participant

    7 is the magic number for repeatability studies. Test the same thing 7 times to get your repeatability. Depending on you volume of production, you probably also need to do an SPC analysis.

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