iSixSigma

Do I Dare Walk Over To The Dark Side?

Six Sigma – iSixSigma Forums Old Forums General Do I Dare Walk Over To The Dark Side?

Viewing 18 posts - 1 through 18 (of 18 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #53000

    Tormented in Toledo
    Member

    Prologue – I’m a very competent Black Belt.  I’ve led projects large and small across a variety of industries, been intimately involved with both top-down and bottom-up Six Sigma deployments, developed both tactical & strategic plans, created and facilitated GB & BB training, mentored GB’s BB’s & champions, developed Hoshin Kanri project prioritization plans, and leveraged a multitude of SS, Lean, QMS & TPS tools & methodologies. To summarize, I’m good at what I do.
    But therein lies the problem.  I’m still only a lowly Black Belt.  In my years of process improvement experience, I’ve never had the opportunity to attend MBB training or get “certified”.  But I find myself competing for jobs against people who can’t hold a candle to me experience-wise or knowledge-wise but can call themselves MBB’s simply because they’ve completed some cheesy online course.  And it’s harder for me to get in the door because of this.  It’s begun to tick me off and I’m beginning to contemplate a course of action which I would normally spit on in disgust – get a cheesy online MBB certification myself.
    My current company has all but frozen its training budget due to financial constraints so a corporate-sponsored program is not an option in the near-term.  I don’t mind paying for it out-of-pocket but I’d prefer not to have to pay $20k for a well-respected certification to learn things I mostly already know.  So the alternative is to shell out 5 grand or so for a fly-by-night certification. 
    I don’t want to do it.  But the data tells me that its the right move to make financially.  I’m much more marketable as a good MBB than a good BB.
    So do I dare walk on the dark side of Six Sigma and become what I’ve always despised ?  I always scoffed at resumes I’ve seen listing certification through “Billy Bob’s MBB Training & Bait Shop” but I don’t many other realistic alternatives.
     

    0
    #187286

    ?
    Participant

    It may not end up being much cheaper but I understand that SSA and Co will allow you to do their exam and certification without having to do the course, you will have to do a interview instead though which can be costly.
    I’m not sure which side SSA and Co appear on your list of trainers.

    0
    #187287

    Rider
    Participant

    If it makes you feel any better, I’m being tasked with getting certified through ASQ. It wouldn’t matter if I got it through the best SS program, or the worst; I have no experience anyway, and no paper will get it for me. I’m always puzzled by people, managers, execs, whomever, who put so much stock in a piece of paper. I liken it to people with a degree from a supposed prestige school-pick one. It’s not the place from which you got the degree, cert, whatever, it’s how you apply the knowledge. I’ve worked with idiots holding advanced degrees from so-called low tier schools and Ivy League schools. I got my degree through the GI Bill at the local state school because it was convenient and near my kid. I’ll put my knowledge and experience in my field up against anyone, and have, and come out on top. Not with SS mind you-still an idiot in that, but I’m learning.So get the MBB from Bill’s SS School and show it to the bosses and make them happy, you’ll know the truth.Ghost Rider

    0
    #187288

    dagwood
    Participant

    I’ve heard of similar cases before. They went out, spent the money, and still didn’t get hired. Don’t take offense, but maybe your face doesn’t fit, or you’re scaring incompetent people with your experience. (There’s a lot of them out there in senior positions you know!)Over the next couple of years, you might find a better way of investing 20K$ – a good rifle, a dog, some seeds, and a small plot of land in the woods!

    0
    #187289

    Rider
    Participant

    Gary, I’m not even competent enough to be an apprentice Green Belt, much less a Master Black Belt. Thanks for the offer, though.Ghost Rider

    0
    #187290

    GB
    Participant

    Tormented,
    If you can’t get your current Employer to train/cert to MBB standards within, then I would consider shopping around companies looking to fill an MBB spot. Demonstrate your proficiency and ability to Lead/interact/influence/execute across all levels of an organization and roll the dice. You might be hired in as an MBB. Do the work and show them your stuff.As for the paper? I wouldn’t waste time on an external, 3rd party cert at this point.

    0
    #187291

    Ken Feldman
    Participant

    Tough quandry to be in.  The good news is that regardless of where you get your “certification” it is what you have accomplished that will set you apart from others and it is what really counts.  The paper gets you in the door and the interview.  From there you can WOW them with your track record.  The other option….coming from the Darkside….is to lie and say you are a MBB.  Since there is no central registry and nobody can really confirm it, who will know or care once you start talking.  Finally, if your organization has some competent internal MBBs, then possibly you can drive the development of something internal as a recent thread addressed.

    0
    #187293

    Taylor
    Participant

    Good advice HB,
    Tormented, If you have the experience you say you have, then just start marketing yourself as an MBB. At the end of the day, it really is just a piece of paper, it really doesn’t mean that much, Experience far more valuable than a test score.  “Certification” really is a misused word in SS.
    JMO
     

    0
    #187294

    Tormented in Toledo
    Member

    Yeah, but here’s the rub – I’m currently in what is, for all intents and purposes, an MBB role.  So I’m not actually looking to WORK like an MBB.  I’m just looking to get PAID like an MBB.  Right now I’m peaked out at the high end of the salary range for BB’s and really the only thing that’s keeping me from the mid/high range for MBB’s is the MBB title. 
    So in theory I suppose I could just say “abracadabra, Im an MBB” but in my experience, some hiring managers get hung up on the certification thing (and I don’t want this to turn into a diatribe as to the incompetence/cluelessness of recruiters and hiring managers – different thread for a different day).  So there is a measureable cost benefit in giving some money to a certification mill to make it all “official” and let my resume do the talking from there. 
    The thing that really torments me is providing any material support at all for these fly-by-night training providers.  It goes against everything I believe, but I don’t see many better options for me right now. 

    0
    #187295

    Ken Feldman
    Participant

    As was suggested, you may need to move out to get what you want.  If you are in a MBB role, that is what you claim in the interview along with your description as a MBB.
    If your company is saying they will increase your compensation to match a MBB level if you get a piece of paper then there is no choice…you do it for as little money as you can.  That is how the Univ. of Phoenix got going.   You need a degree to keep your job or move up then “buy” one.  Same for you…”buy” a certification.  If you will increase your compensation enough to have a decent ROI then do it and stop worrying about the pedigree. 

    0
    #187296

    GB
    Participant

    Good advice, Darth.Bottom line, Tormented, show them your stuff.

    0
    #187298

    Sort of Tormented in Detroit
    Member

    Since you’re in Toledo, and kind of commutable to the Detroit area, another possibility for you (if you can wait) might be the ASQ Detroit section’s training.  They offered MBB certification training last spring for about $4500, and I believe they will offer it again, probably in the spring again.  Supposedly this chapter is the only one offering their own brand of MBB certification. 
    I know there is a lot of discussion and disagreement about the merits of ASQ BB certification, but I went through the BB course just to get that piece of paper so the HR drones could tick the ‘certified’ box when I was looking for a new job last year.  I found the Detroit section’s BB training to be of good quality, and pretty useful as a refresher, and I am sure the same could be said of their MBB course, although I haven’t been through that particular course.   Just a thought about a possible way to get a little more for your money if you do decide to get the piece of paper.  You could monitor asqdetroit.org to see if they do offer the MBB course next year. 

    0
    #187304

    Mr. Peabody
    Participant

    [Sung to the music of Beverly Hillbillies theme]
    Let’s take a trip with the old wayback machine to a time about 5 years ago to the day….
    Gonna tell you a story ’bout a man named miker, a poor desperate soul couldn’t really keep it honest;
    Once he got started he was slipping down the slope, and when he couldn’t walk the talk, everyone knew he was a dope.
    Untruthful he was. Serial liar they said. So the next thing he knows he’s busted by his words, and once in front of him they really did hurt.
    So what every you do, don’t be a miker; Just don’t do it!!! Check it out for your self. And here’s the proof.
    Ahhhhhh, those were the days, huh guys?
    https://www.isixsigma.com/forum/showmessage.asp?messageID=60795
    https://www.isixsigma.com/forum/showmessage.asp?messageID=60735

    0
    #187310

    Stevo
    Member

    Tormented  in Toledo-
    Take this for what it’s worth… Free.
    Jump thru the hoop.  But reading your post, my spidey sense is tingling.  You might have other issues that are keeping you down and you are blaming the cert.  Take a hard look at your self again.
    Stevo

    0
    #187311

    Tormented in Toledo
    Member

    I appreciate your concern.  Looked hard.  Very self-aware.

    0
    #187320

    Ken Feldman
    Participant

    Yeah, but ya live in friggin Toledo for crying out loud.  Spent a good bit of time there last year…or should I say Perrysburg.

    0
    #187329

    Tormented in Toledo
    Member

    Done.

    0
    #187404

    boettler
    Member

    What is your principle?  Is it I am to brilliant to waste my time with lesser beings trying to teach me what I already know?  Look if the money for the MBB program is your ultimate aim and you can’t achieve it any other way than to sit through those classes than do it and get on with your life.

    0
Viewing 18 posts - 1 through 18 (of 18 total)

The forum ‘General’ is closed to new topics and replies.