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Dorian Shainin

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  • #45089

    Barry U
    Participant

    I’ve been trying to learn more about Dorian Shainin and his methods.  There’s lots of google hits with some interesting material, including the following from another six sigma forum :
    “ASQ’s Body of Knowledge is based on Six Sigma Academy training, and as such contains tools advocated by Dorian Shainin that have been known for many years to be invalid. “
    Does anyone have any comments or information on this please ?

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    #146165

    Barry U
    Participant

    An interesting quote from David Hartshorne:
    “Dorian got the first Six Sigma program started while working as a consultant at Motorola with Keki Bhote. Keki wrote books about what he learned from the experience. Interestingly, Dorian’s powerful Y to X, effect to cause, convergent strategy seems to have been lost by the majority of the current Six Sigma movement. The most powerful tools are mostly ignored, because the trainers are unaware of the questions that the tools were designed to answer. Consequently, finding the root cause takes longer, and much more resource than it should. The strongest root cause is often not found at all, and mediocre results become acceptable. A principle warning sign of performance and reliability improvement activity going astray is a focus on process variation reduction. “
    Was Dorian the real father of six sigma ?

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    #146178

    Anonymous
    Guest

    Barry,
    There is no doubt Motorola’s great efforts began in Phoenix. In fact I was recruited by Ted Williams, one of the people who brought Dorian into Motorola.
    However, Bob Galvin has credited Bill Smith as the ‘father’ of Six Sigma, and I have no reason to doubt it.
    As to Dorian’s methods, I believe they ought to be put into the context of the times. Few people had processor power, software, or time for that matter, as we all had responsiblity for making and shipping product, as well as characterising processes. It was the beginning in the sense senior management didn’t as yet know the possibilies, and I think it is to their credit they used a ‘mission accomplishement’ style of managment. Not the ‘top down’ management we hear about so often.
    Later, most people who studied Shainin went on to study non- parametric methods and multivariate methods, when others didn’t bother – I wonder why!!!
    A similar argument applies to Taguchi. A lot of people go around making various claims about Taguchi Methods. But when you look at their Taguchi design it doesn’t reflect the method at all, and the person has never attended a Taguchi training class!
    When you ask the same person about the asumptions of DOE and Anova – they don’t even know! No wonder Dr. Harry’s Six Sigma is in decline – most of it is a crock!
    If you provide me with an email, I’ll send you an article that may surprise you.
    Cheers,
    Andy
     

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    #146182

    Barry U
    Participant

    Thanks Andy.  Very interesting as always.
    Looking forward to reading your article.  [email protected]  ( For those who may not be aware, Phaedrus, born 15BC, was a seeker of truth and the real meaning of “quality” )

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    #146198

    Ram
    Participant

    Andy,
    Could you please forward the same article to me please @ [email protected] found the discussion interesting so willing to learn more.
    Thanks!

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    #146201

    Mikel
    Member

    The academy had little to do with the ASQ Body of Knowledge. Even though ASQ had sponsored Mikel’s BB training, they convened a lot of different people to come up with the BOK. I don’t think there was a representative of the Academy there.
    If you look at Mikel’s diffinitive works – the white and dark green cartoon books – you will find very little of Shanin in there.
    As a side note, Shanin’s methods are valid – if you understand the assumptions. Andy is right, you need to put Shainin in context with the times – powerful graphic based tools for use with teams; very, very little in the way of computational analysis – at a time when most computations were done by hand or with calculators. I think his tools are the perfect follow on to the seven basic tools to be used in a team context. Think of team based analysis done on white boards and flip charts. Kind of the same as doing value stream maps – we can do them on a computer, but the technology gets in the way of the team dynamics – you always do them on white boards and flip charts – you may put them on a computer for record keeping or presentation later.

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    #146202

    Mikel
    Member

    An interesting quote from Stan – “Who in the hexx is David Hartshorne?”
    Oh – I just looked him up and he is a guy who sells Shainin. Just another hack.
    It probably would help to know more about Keki and what he really did at Motorola. So valuable an employee and problem solver, he handled the logistics for MMI at MTEC (later Motorola University) at the time when most of the hard work and most of the improvement was going on. MMI was Motorola’s two week crash course in Leadership and modern methods. They had a load of focus on things that looked like Customer focus, rapid delivery, and various other IE type topics. MMI had no focus on Shainin.

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    #146210

    Stodgy Seeker
    Member

    Andy,
     
    Please send me a copy of the article also.   And thanks for your continued input and insight.
     
    [email protected]
     
    (And for you who might be curious Process Doc, born 1960AD, is the master of all things operations research and, as such, is a current day purveyor of quality truths – not some old stodgy seeker of ancient “quality” truths.)

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    #146213

    Marlon Brando
    Participant

    Stan
    I’m  still  waiting  to  receive your  kind  evaluation (feedback)? 

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    #146258

    Stodgy
    Member

    Andy,
    Great article.   Thanks.     I don’t care what it was called early on, that was good analytics.    You are a problem solver and, it appears, have been one for some time.    Stodgy

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    #146261

    Barry U
    Participant

    Stan,
    I’m not suggesting Shainin’s methods are invalid and I don’t know Mr Hartshorne.  I have no experience at all with Shainin.  I am interested in the history, a discussion of any criticism and why it’s not common now.

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    #146263

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    Barry U,
    I am not sure what is happening now but the deal used to be a couple of the Shainin boys met you at the door to the conference and on top of paying you had to sign a nondisclosure type of agreement to get in.
     

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    #146265

    Nanni
    Participant

    Hi Barry,
    could you send me the article to: [email protected]
    it’s look like a new things to learn.
    Txs!

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    #146267

    Terry
    Member

    You moron.
    Without the “old stodgy” great thinkers of the past, you’d still be finger painting on the wall of your cave.

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    #149870

    rumble
    Member

    Hello,
    can you please send the article to [email protected] – thank you!

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