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False Claim of Six Sigma Certification from GE

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  • #41690

    Jon Lelekis
    Participant

    It saddens me to ask this questions but how does one confirm someone’s certification (by GE) of Six Sigma?
    I have encountered an individual who claims to have attained Project Management Professional Certification from the Project Management Insitute and this has proven to be false by PMI.
    This same person also claims to be Six Sigma Certified (?) by GE and this is also believed to be a false claim.
    Is there a “clearinghouse” to confirm or disprove this claim or an online process (like PMI) where an individuals name can be entered to verify someone’s status?
    Thanks for any information anyone might be able to provide.

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    #131009

    howe
    Participant

    I am a PMP. You could go to http://www.pmi.org to verfiy if this person is certified as a PMP. I am not sure the exact area. You will need to poke around. I am also a Certified Six Sigma BB. You can’t verify this though.

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    #131010

    Lee
    Member

    I am now a certified yellow belt, courtesy of Stanley.

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    #131012

    Gerry Polesky
    Participant

    When I was certified by GE as a Green Belt,Black Belt and a Master Black Belt we were given a plaque which was incraved with our certification, signed by the CEO (Jack Welch in my case) and dated accordingly.  I do know that each GE core business maintained a record of certification, but I don’t believe there was ever a common repository that maintained this information for all GE businesses.
    I do know that many people claim false certifications, but every person that I have hired has had to verify certification in some manner as the plaque for example..
     

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    #131013

    SixSigmaTools
    Member

    Important Lesson Learned…
    I never asked for Certifications of those I hired, I never ask for diplomas or plaques. The first thing I ask for is a minimum of 3 completed project reports (1 or 2 if hiring for a lower postion). Check to see if the projects use various tools for improvement (statistical and logical). Then give the person the opportunity to give a 30min. presentation on a six sigma tool (hypothesis testing, D.O.E., etc…). This should prove fluency in Process Improvement tools.
    Too Much???  How much are you putting on the Bottom Line for this employee?
    I do not know of a governing body for Six Sigma Certifications. A pitty, but what would the certification prove anyway?

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    #131014

    GE GB
    Participant

    GE issues certificates so you can perhaps ask for it….
    However, two GBs or BB/MBBs need not have similar expertise. There is too much variation in expectations and requirements within GE and the best way would be to check their know-how by few related questions (especially if they claim to have used certain tools in their projects).

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    #131019

    sillyidiot
    Member

    Disagree completely

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    #131023

    GE GB
    Participant

    Disagree with what?

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    #131024

    sillyidiot
    Member

    Thanks for  the  response .Sorry  my  message was  directed  to “sixsigmatools” for  his  observations regarding the SS Cerification.Rgds.

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    #131026

    Super Intelligent
    Member

    What  about BMG,VILLANOVA,ASQ Certification  Programes??

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    #131031

    Bank Guy
    Participant

    I hope this isn’t the same Gerry Polesky that was asked to leave BOA because it turned out that his MBB designation was really a title that came with the job and not a certification earned through demonstrated knowledge and competence.  If you are the same Gerry Polesky you would be the poster child as to why getting proof is important.

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    #131032

    Jered Horn
    Participant

    I’m assuming you’re asking this question in regards to future candidates, and not to this same person.  I don’t think I’d care if he/she, in particular, had Six Sigma Certification from God Himself.  The PMI false claim WILL lead to more false claims.
    With that said…I would highly recommend (like some others in this thread) placing more emphasis on a candidate’s past experiences/projects than any certification.  Six Sigma is about results…data…not a piece of paper, plaque, or list of names.
    If you don’t have an internal Six Sigma training program, and have to rely on other/external “certifications”, you should have a rigorous interview process that will find a candidate that can prove he/she will meet your expectations.
    Just my opinion.

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    #131046

    SS
    Member

    I agree with HornJM, I have been certified by Air Academy, Stanley, BMG, Wal-Mart and none of this matters if I cannot perform to what is required of me as a BB, MBB, Director, etc. As hiring people it is very hard to know how they will perform. This is based on references and education. There is actually several Six Sigma projects that have been done in the HR or people divisions to reduce the turnover rate from hiring poor performers. How ironic? I think there should be a national database that Six Sigma professionals register with upon certification which employers can pull from. That is a good business idea. Maybe some of us can get together, start a company put it on the web and charge employers a fee for researching the prospective employee such as carfax, etc. Hmmmm… Maybe we can set that up through isixsigma.com. Just a thought.
    SS

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    #131047

    Ken Feldman
    Participant

    Hey maybe it would look something like this:Candidate:  StanMileage:  1,500,000 milesCondition:  Wretched, cynical and hard to start in the morningExterior:  RoughInterior:  Like a baby’s behind Experience:  Been there, done that, knows it all.  Been around since 1900 something B.H. (before Harry).Price:  More than most countries have in GNP.Recommendation:  If you have the stomach for a really rough ride, grab him, he’s a bargain.

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    #131048

    Markert
    Participant

    Nice work. I always considered you an idea guy. Let’s run with it!?
    What would an example look like for that John Smith person who’s been posting here lately?
    By the way, that Gary Cone blogger sure is a slacker, huh? 5 posts in 5 months on his own blog…. I can do that in 15 minutes…..;-)

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    #131049

    Alastair Muir
    Participant

    Gerry:Contact mesix.sigma(at)muir-and-associates(dot)comMy book is now publishedAlastair

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    #131050

    mwamp
    Participant

    When considering a BB from GE ask to see their certificate or plaque, as far as I know everyone gets one.  I went through BB training at GE and the Six Sigma Academy and both organizations provided me with a certificate when my training was completed.  In addition I believe SSA can provide training verification to potential employers. 
    The only problem I’ve had is providing documentation of my projects  because my previous employers will allow me to show any discuss any aspects of my project work. 
     
     
     

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    #131051

    BTDT
    Participant

    Jon:Each GE certification comes with a paper trail. It is a little different with each GE business and there is no central place for the data you require.Find out the name of his/her MBB or Quality Leader at the time of certification. It should only take a few phone calls to talk to someone who worked with him/her. HR will likely be a little hesitant to reveal too much information, but it is reasonable to contact the MBB they worked with. MBBs usually move around a lot after a year or so, it may take you a few hours. Stick with it.This will also give you the opportunity to ask other related questions regarding projects, tool usage, etc.I worry that you have already found one reason not to hire the candidate. Do you really need more?On an other note, we once interviewed a certified MBB (+PhD) from company XYZ. We described the candidate as “Bran” – a lot of fibre with no substance (and he didn’t leave a good taste in our mouth). Pay attention to the interview and ask a lot of questions. We have all met good people without certification and bad people with it.Best of luck, BTDT

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    #131052

    Ken Feldman
    Participant

    Phil,
    I haven’t been overly impressed by Gary Cone, whoever he is.  He seems like a big blow-hard but he certainly isn’t up to even the standards of Stan.
    John Smith my axx.  Probably just Reigle with a new name.

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    #131053

    Arpell Pearson
    Participant

    I am also disappointed that there is no repository for SS Certification. However, I also believe knowledge or demonstration of skills in applying statistical tools may offer you better assurance. Test their knowledge and confidence level. Question them about a hypothetically low Ppk /Cpk process performance. Then ask what desired indice they would target. Skilled Belts should navigate easy around that one!

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    #131054

    Jered Horn
    Participant

    Sorry all, this is kinda’ off topic…
    Phil,
    Could you contact me at [email protected].  I have a question about your previous post.  Thanks.

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    #131055

    Ken Feldman
    Participant

    I propose that we substitute the certificate below for all Six Sigma certificates from a nameless big bank located in N.C.  It holds as much validity as that of many of the certified people there.  In fact, it might cover a whole bunch of folks from GE and elsewhere.

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    #131056

    Andejrad Ich
    Participant

    Ask to see their high school yearbook.  If they’re in the marching band picture but not in the football or basketball picture, then they’re probably certified in six sigma.
    Andejrad

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    #131057

    Anonymous
    Guest

    Darth,
    Could also design one for Lean and Taguchi Methods?
    Cheers,
    Andy

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    #131060

    Ken Feldman
    Participant

    It is an all purpose certificate for most of the Lean Six Sigma methodologies.  It is a one on one replacement for anyone certified by Stan.  At least that is what Carnell said.

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    #131069

    Super Intelligent
    Member

    When it is  time  to have “white” belt  certification? 

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    #131074

    Mikel
    Member

    I believe that your certificate would be an upgrade for anyone certified by Carnell or me.

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    #131078

    BTDT
    Participant

    Stan:I found your graduation picture, so I know you are legitCheers, BTDT

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    #131079

    Markert
    Participant

    No thanks.
    The only message that was unclear in my previous post was the subliminal one, which was “I feel like eating Mexican for lunch.”
    I’ll bet Stevo picked up on it.
    Did it work on you? Did you try the chimichanga? Did you consider Heebeegeebee’s Certified Chimichanga to add to your CV?
    For those of you who are missing the subliminal messages, stay tuned for an offer to obtain my secret decoder ring through an exclusive sixsigma offer.

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    #131080

    LOB Trainer
    Participant

    Yourself included since twas’nt long ago when you to wore the BOA name tag with pride 

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    #131084

    SixSigmaTools
    Member

    again… Disagree with what?

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    #131087

    GB GE
    Participant

    BTDT, a lot of stress is given to the “certificate”…
    As I mentioned earlier no two GB/BB/MBBs are same since there is lot of variation in certification guidelines.
    There are GBs who need to be “coached” in their project and they get a certificate. None of them ever use those tools again. Same is the case with some BB and MBBs who often delgate this task to more knowlegeable members in their team.
    In fact, thanks to “imagination at work” it hasdbecome fashionable to be on a BB/MBB role (for career growth) and keep bashing six sigma since it is perceived to be anti-growth.

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    #131088

    Former GE
    Participant

    Unfortunately, I have to agree. I am a GE trained GB, and still use the tools often, but when the “push” was on, I saw many people who couldn’t even tell you what a Pareto chart is get certified. It was all about the number of GBs in a region.

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    #131093

    Super Intelligent
    Member

    With your  point  of  view.Appreciate  your kind response,rgds.

     

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    #131095

    Super Intelligent
    Member

    Why  all  the  big  noise:WB,YB,GB,BB….MBB?See  the  Japanese with  their great achievement  and  minimum pretending?When I’m  reading  all this  nonsense here I’m  getting  severe headache.Remember in  1993 when  I  visted  Japan to  attend  an  intensive TQM Program and  met their Gurus (Kano….etc),I was really  impressed by  their  humble  attitude  and  their  great  achievements.Please “walk  the  talk”?This  message  is  directed  to  all  those  great  pretenders,please  stop  the  “BIG” Noise.Thanks &  Regards.  

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    #131107

    False GE SS Claimant
    Participant

    Itchy,
     
    I hate to say it but occasionally, and I want to stress the use of the word “occasionally”, you’re pretty funny.  Well maybe not funny, more like clever.   No, …. that’s being somewhat disingenuous on my part, I’ll go with “funny”, but I stand by my use of the word “occasionally.”  
     
    False GE SS Claimant

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    #131108

    Jered Horn
    Participant

    Alright…I’ll drop it.
    A secret decoder ring would be cool, though.  As long as you all don’t post annoying secret advertisements like “Don’t forget to drink your Ovaltine”.

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    #131115

    Heebeegeebee BB
    Participant

    Thanks for the plug!  
    Your check is on the way.

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    #131116

    GE MBB
    Participant

    If you aren’t using six sigma to drive growth in your business/segment you are missing the boat.  I can only pray you are below SPB so you can not exert too much influence on your org.

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    #131123

    BTDT
    Participant

    GE MBB:We both have all seen the variation in BBs and MBBs in different parts of the GE. 5 Years ago it was hard to get belts from Capital to talk with Med Systems or Power Systems. Some islands still persist.Keep up the good fight.Cheers, BTDT

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    #131124

    luke skywalker
    Participant

    Now Pappy, it wasn’t that long ago that you were a part of the rebellion here…Some of us are still here fighting a good fight.
     I do see far too much emphasis on looks over substance from the light-bulb factory folks who work here though, and that can happen at any company.
    The comments on checking the candidate’s skills are spot on – getting a nice piece of paper or a plaque means nothing, BUT being able to answer 10 simple questions can show some substance, wouldn’t you agree? 

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    #131126

    sillyidiot
    Member

    I advise you  to mind  your  own  business and  stop  complaining??

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    #131127

    Ken Feldman
    Participant

    White belt already exists.

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    #131128

    Ken Feldman
    Participant

    Wasn’t certified by them but proudly cashed their paychecks.

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    #131129

    howe
    Participant

    Are you stating, that there is no difference in expertise between a GB, BB and MBB? If so, this is absolutely incorrect. There is a huge difference in expertise and training. GB typically runs 2 weeks light on stats, while BB is typically 4 weeks heavy on stats, while MBB is heavier on stats than the BB with instruction involved.

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    #131132

    Ken Feldman
    Participant

    Luke,
    You, Yoda, Dr. Seuss and the gang are doing a tremendous job.  If not for you guys that wiley wicked witch would take it down the toilet.  Wish Ani good luck.  He may be joining Maul and me.

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    #131133

    Ken Feldman
    Participant

    Luke, forgot to include Red Leader in the post.  At least all his embedded metal helps draw the bullets away from you and the others.

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    #131134

    Schuette
    Participant

    Most certifications have the name of the company/institute that awarded it.  You could check with that company for validity and then check to see if the company itself is offering a ligit certification. 

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    #131136

    GE GB
    Participant

    GE MBB:
    The problem is that we have folks in SPB and above who are nominated to BB/MBB role based on their bands and not based on their interest or liking towards SS.
    A lot of these folks take care of their certification (at times by dubious means) get certificate (thank GOD they still consider this as an important document) and keep bashing SS and it’s active users at any given opprotunity.
    Problem – in SPB band and above SS certification is perceived as useful for one’s own career GROWTH but at the same time SS  is perceived to be anti-GROWTH for the organization (it apparently slows down inovation etc…)

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    #131139

    thee88plyr
    Member

    Andejrad,
    I resemble that remark! 
    Not only was I in the marching band, but was the drum major for 2 years, and majored in music for the large majority of my college education.  I only switched to business administration when I began working in the business world. 
    To complete your observation, I am also certified in Six Sigma…although I haven’t used it in almost 3 years (since I was laid off by the employer who gave me all that beautiful training). 
    So, proof for your comment.  I wasn’t in football or basketball, I was in the marching band, and I am Six Sigma certified.
    :)
    Thanks for the smile!
    thee88plyr

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    #131145

    sillyidiot
    Member

    What  about   certificates offered by  Univesities upon  finishing 8-16 weeks on  line intensive  courses????

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    #131148

    Super Intelligent
    Member

    What  about  them???/

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    #131149

    Sig
    Member

      After reading alot of the threads I agree there should be more emphasis on proven past projects than the cert.  HOWEVER, keep in mind that this is the same as a law firm hiring a new partner, of two candidates both took the bar exam, but who are they going to hire, the one from bills garage academy, or the one from Harvard???  same analogy lives for six sigma, if you actually pull a plaque from ASQ, you know your stuff, I’ve heard the same exists when getting one from Juran Institute and Vilanova, I haven’t heard but imagine Mikel Harry would require high standards out of his academy.  so quite literally ASQ, & Juran are your six sigma Harvards and Yales and that should be taken into consideration.  ASQ’s bb test is 150 very detailed tough questions.  My GB project was more intense than most other peers BB projects from other accreditors.  just things to keep in mind.  if somebody ever lied to me about being certified in anything, i would probably fire them on the spot.

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    #131152

    SS
    Member

    Darth,
    I love it. That was a good response. People are like cars if they won’t start, idle rough, drive recklessly. Trade them in. Or you can use the management tool I have used. The three AAA’s: Attitude, Aptitude, Attendance. If they lack in all three then it becomes FTA. Foot to A**.
    SS

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    #131155

    Kevin Estes
    Participant

    If the person has a GE Six Sigma certificate they will have a certificate that is signed by the Master Black Belt and the division Sr VP.  From there you can call that divisions HR who can go online and confirm (within GE.)

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    #131156

    Heebeegeebee BB
    Participant

    Wrong answer.   Most companies have specific rules barring the disclosure of anything more than the fact that a person worked at a company…PERIOD.
    This is a protective measure against libel/slander litigation.

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    #131157

    Heebeegeebee BB
    Participant

    “… if you actually pull a plaque from ASQ, you know your stuff…”
    HAHA!!!!!
    You made a funny!
     

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    #131171

    Mikel
    Member

    After reading alot of the threads I agree there should be more emphasis on proven past projects than the cert.  HOWEVER, keep in mind that this is the same as a law firm hiring a new partner, of two candidates both took the bar exam, but who are they going to hire, the one from bills garage academy, or the one from Harvard???  same analogy lives for six sigma, if you actually pull a plaque from ASQ, you know your stuff, I’ve heard the same exists when getting one from Juran Institute and Vilanova, I haven’t heard but imagine Mikel Harry would require high standards out of his academy.  so quite literally ASQ, & Juran are your six sigma Harvards and Yales and that should be taken into consideration.  ASQ’s bb test is 150 very detailed tough questions.  My GB project was more intense than most other peers BB projects from other accreditors.  just things to keep in mind.  if somebody ever lied to me about being certified in anything, i would probably fire them on the spot.

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    #131174

    carlos babarose
    Participant

    Hmmm….. I’m figuring this was a different Stan, a very different Stan.   

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    #131178

    Ken Feldman
    Participant

    ME TOO!!!! NERDS ARISE!!!!

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    #131180

    Ken Feldman
    Participant

    Nope, it’s the same Stan.  Most of the Forum suspected he was a faker and now it is proven in his own words.  “Run Away, Run Away”.

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    #131188

    Mikel
    Member

    Oh my god. Darth, are you running around naked with your drum majors hat on again?

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    #131278

    Charles H.
    Participant

    Not to worry, Darth . . .  The “Holy Hand Grenade” takes care of those nasty little rabbits with really sharp teeth . . .  “Run away!”

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    #168441

    Ward
    Participant

    You should check with the institution that gave him the certification. For instance, I got my Six Sigma Green Belt through University of Illinois; one can call and verify if and when I was trained. All institution should have a record locator for all people trained, just like colleges do.

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    #168442

    Heebeegeebee BB
    Participant

    Wrong answer.   Most companies and Universities have specific rules barring the disclosure of anything more than the fact that a person worked at a company…PERIOD.
    This is a protective measure against libel/slander litigation and protection for the subject in case the person making inquiries is a Nutjob-Stalker..

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    #168444

    Brandon
    Participant

    There is no such thing as “False Claim for SS Cert..” because there is no such thing as official SS certification! Any certification must be qualifed as to the issuer….”I got mine from….”

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    #168449

    Heebeegeebee BB
    Participant

    I think the orig poster was wary of someone’s claim of cert from GE.

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    #168450

    Brandon
    Participant

    Hee – from my experiences that would be a valid concern.

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    #168451

    Ward
    Participant

    An employer has the right to check on your education background. Just like an employer can verify your criminal and educational background, they can also find out about your training. Any employer can use a third party to verify somebody’s background.
    My opinion is that there should be a central database for all certified trainees that employers can access and find out if someone has been certified in Six Sigma, or PMP.

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    #168453

    Heebeegeebee BB
    Participant

    Pete, the prospective Employer can ask anybody anything…HOWEVER, the previous Employer courts litigation by divulging anything beyond employment dates to anyone who asks, whether or not they are an individual, or business entity. (exception: DOD -Clearance checks)
    We all know about networking and back-channels…happens everyday, but if someone was aggrieved by this “informal back-channel”, they’d have gorunds in most states to pursue violation of privacy litigation

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    #168470

    Stan”s sister
    Member

    It is a big differnce between being trained and being certified

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    #168493

    Brandon
    Participant

    Gotta explain that Sister.
    Again, it depends on the issuer. Send me $20 and I’ll send you a beautiful certificate…suitable for framing.

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    #168495

    Heebeegeebee BB
    Participant

    Here is a freebie courtesy, Google:

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    #182313

    fox
    Participant

    Nearly everyone at GE was GB certified in 1998.

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    #182316

    Tony Bo
    Member

    I was certified through GE…..we were all issued a certificate signed by either Jack Welch or Jeff Immelt.  So have that person show you their certificate.  Also, I believe GE has a listing of everyone who was certified by business unit.  So you can probably reach out to them to check. 

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    #182322

    GB
    Participant

    Definitely ask for their cert, but GE will never divulge a list, as doing so may violate privacy laws.  They can only verify dates of employment.

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    #182328

    MBBinWI
    Participant

    Since there are an innumerable number of posts – I’m guessing that somebody mentioned that ISSSP has a common repository.  Too bad that for companies they aren’t going to pay the bucks to list their people just to have them jump ship, and for individuals, what they charge is pretty steep.

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