iSixSigma

Fast Black Belt training

Six Sigma – iSixSigma Forums Old Forums General Fast Black Belt training

Viewing 27 posts - 1 through 27 (of 27 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #53135

    eeckman
    Participant

    I lost my job a few months ago due to downsizing. Want to take some of this “time off” to get Six Sigma black belt.  What would you recommend as the “fast track” to getting this accomplished?  I am in PA.  Is there a class/University/company that has concentrated focused study that would work and be fast?
     

    0
    #188382

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    Where in PA?
    I am a long way away and I don’t do invidual certifications but there may be some options with other groups. If you want to discuss off line my email is [email protected].

    0
    #188414

    MBBinWI
    Participant

    Hmm, wonder what you’re thinking?

    0
    #188426

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    There are some classes being taught using stimulus money. He is a little to far to commute but gave him a name to talk to and maybe PA can do a similar thing.

    0
    #188457

    jrstone1
    Participant

    You might go to http://www.villanovau.com/ (Villanova University), on the left point @ Certificate Programs, click on Six Sigma. You can get your BB online.

    0
    #188463

    GLD
    Participant

    As an 18 year Industrial Engineer: I to have been researching the online BB certification, to earn a job in the HealthCare sector.  Villanova came to the top!
    Does the online certification hold professional status for employers?
    Can anyone rank a Lean HealthCare Cetification to that of a GB, BB  etc….?
    I am uncertified with 2years Lean on site training at my former business: we hired , namely NextLevelPartners,

    0
    #188465

    Kluttz
    Member

    As I mentioned in a previous post, I hired a QC analyst who completed her BB certification through Villanova.  The salary was in the mid-40’s and the fact that her certification was from Villanova played no part in her getting the job.  I liked the fact that she had some training and could speak the language but there was no way that I would have hired her for a dedicated Black Belt role (at the associated salary range). 
    I wonder if anyone has done a study on the salaries (pre & post) of people who have completed online certifications.  I would doubt the difference would be statistically significant and I would also guess that Villanova’s results wouldn’t be any different from Joe’s Casa de Six Sigma Certificacion.

    0
    #188470

    Jonathon Andell
    Participant

    If it’s not too late: do you have any idea how a self-employed person might become a trainer for a stimulus-funded class?

    0
    #188471

    Mikel
    Member

    You are proposing the wrong study. Let’s do a study of the margins of the on line U offerings.

    0
    #188477

    Kluttz
    Member

    I doubt they’re losing money with their online certifications.
    iSixSigma does an annual Global Salary survey.  I’m sure they have some data re the salaries of online-trained BB’s vs corporate-trained BB’s vs consultant-trained BB’s, etc.  That would be the Rosetta Stone for all further threads like these. 
    Further along that road – if training providers can’t show data-based ROI numbers for their offerings, it makes you wonder if they really want to know what the results truly are.

    0
    #188478

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    I think there is an inherent danger just as there is with the stand up trainers in grouping the online training into one bucket. I am pretty confident in saying that if you treated the standup training guys as a homogeneous group you wouldn’t find any significant relationship between any of the factors. The one thing I am pretty sure of is that the online training guys don’t have the travel costs that we do. It would be interesting to see if their divorce rate is as high as ours seems to be.
    Regards

    0
    #188479

    Kluttz
    Member

    At first glance, I’d guess I would probably focus on training providers that focus on individuals or open enrollments as opposed to corporate groups.  With a corporate training audience, the desired output would probably be savings recognized from subsequent SS projects.  But with individual trainees, the desired outcome would be more specific to a post-training salary bump. 
    We could stratify wherever it makes sense, but wouldn’t salary delta be the most compelling Y?  And if any one training provider (or training medium) were superior to any other, then why wouldn’t they use that fact as a decided marketing advantage?  And if all providers/media are essentially equal, why shouldn’t someone just choose the cheapest/quickest cerification route?

    0
    #188481

    Darth
    Participant

    Reread the original post. Do we really want to encourage someone looking to be a BB during his time off but wanting it as fast as he can? Do we really want someone to join our profession with that kind of motivation and attitude? Don’t we have enough hacks already?

    0
    #188482

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    Darth,
    I don’t think speed is a very good indicator. I was hired to redeploy a companies program that had been running 3 years and had certified about 4-5 people and those were questionable. So is slow necessarily good? Not really. There is an equal amount of motivation for a consultant to go slow, drag it out and keep selling training over and over.
    Reread why he is looking for fast and it is easy to understand.
    Just my opinion. 

    0
    #188483

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    UCS,
    This goes back to the point of what the training is meant to deliver. When you deliver a organization level program you are typically being asked to deliver on some metric and it rarely has anything to do with how many people you certify. We are normally given some type of financial target i.e. EBIT, cost/PGM ounce, etc. The metric has to be delivery of what you were asked to provide. When we were in South Africa we had a mix of a particular amount of money + 20% of the projects had to address safety. I am not sure what you do with the extra safety part in the metric. At the end of the day it is about business results and not certification.
    When an idividual wants to be certified then the entire criteria shifts.
    I am not sure what makes sense to level the playing field.
    Just my opinion

    0
    #188484

    Darth
    Participant

    While there might not be a great operational definition of time…..to properly learn something it is often necessary to have cycles of learning and practice/practice/practice. It takes more than a week or two to sufficiently learn SS content. Do we need to drag out to 4-6 weeks, that might be debatable? But I don’t believe you learn merely by a quick read or a CD. Whether the cycles of learning and practice take place in a classroom or on the job you still need to use it to learn it. Is this another case where someone is taking time off (aka fired) and thinks getting into SS is a quick way to enhance the resume or is his taking time off a conscious decision to pursue an alternative career opportunity.

    0
    #188485

    Kluttz
    Member

    First, I think there’s a difference between a recently laid-off experienced industrial engineer looking to augment his resume and some yahoo who just got fired from his job at Kinkos who is looking to get in at any company stupid enough to hire him (or “her”, I suppose). 
    Either way, I’m not talking about the inputs to the process, but rather the process itself.  Regardless of the quality of the incoming BB candidate, the output of the training/certification process should be a more marketable employee.  And that should result in an increase in their salary post-training.  If a specific training provider certifies anyone whose check happens to clear, then we probably wouldn’t expect to see any significant bump.  But a reputable training provider with actual certification standards should see their trainees actually gain marketable skillsets and be compensated accordingly.  I know there should be some GIGO effect, but that should be relatively constant throughout the samples. 
    I’ve been open in my disdain for people who don’t take their responsibilities as process improvement professionals seriously.  But I’m equally opposed to any training/certification provider who makes the tacit promise of some ROI but only actually serves to dilute to SS pool. 

    0
    #188486

    Darth
    Participant

    Your hypothesis already has sufficient analogies. Do the top graduates of the top 10 law schools out earn the others? Do the top students of top MBA programs out earn the riff raff? Do the BBs and MBBs of top acknowledged SS companies or providers out earn others? Yes to all those questions because there is hard/soft evidence that the output of those processes are superior to others….except Bush and Yale but that’s a different story.

    0
    #188487

    UoCS
    Member

    I completely agree with the need to differentiate corporate training deployments from individual training providers.  But the original post in this thread is far from being the first to ask this question.  I would guess that it (or its close brethren) is the single most popular question in this forum.  Right or wrong, people are looking for shortcuts to LSS certification.  So we can continue poo-pooing their character and moral turpitude or we can demonstrate the error of their thought process.  If someone knew that the likelihood of scoring an $85k/year job after completing Villanova’s BB program was practically nil, I think we’d have far fewer people following that path.  And if MoreSteam / BMG / Air Academy / Watsamatawit U can show a quantifiable ROI on their open enrollment training, then they should do it. 

    0
    #188488

    UoCS
    Member

    I don’t think that’s an apples-to-apples comparison. Even if it was so, a 5 second google search found this;
    http://www.fsb.muohio.edu/mba/careers/salary-survey
    Why doesn’t Villanova have the same thing specific to it’s LSS training program (all it does is reference isixsigma’s salary survey)?  If there is hard data supporting the hypothesis that some “prestigious” online LSS training provider’s certification is worth more on the job market than some certification mill’s, I’d love to see it. 
     

    0
    #188489

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    Darth,
    I have swapped emails with eeckman and I think he has integrity and is just trying to get out the other side of this recession as whole as possible. I have no issue with helping someone out in a situation like that. Everybody needs a hand every now and then.
    I agree it does take time and it does take cycles. This is why I have frequently reference Bloom’s Taxonomy. It does take time to become proficient (just added the model to my website this weekend or at least Deb did). Time isn’t the only factor. If you remember a blog Gary Cone did a long time ago about the characteristics of a successful BB. There are aspects of a persons drives that tend to make them more successful that have nothing to do directly with the training. Those are the people who can get started with training and years later are still learning.
    This whole learning and competancy issue isn’t all that cut and dry.
    Just my opinion

    0
    #188490

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    UoCS,
    Sorry for the slow response. There is a big sign on the factory door that says “No Solicitors” and they come in anyhow. When you take them back to the door and ask them to read the sign to you they get beligerent. I guess you can teach people to read but comprehension seems to be a different issue.
    I really can’t get into the discussion on how they should be marketing the on-line classes. I have had discussions with Bill Hathaway who owns MoreSteam and he understand the technology and the business of distance learning. There are differences in the way the material is presented and used but I don’t have any experience with that. There is a book that MoreSteam has published called “The Blended Learning Playbook.” It is well written and has some good information. I am not sure how they actually sell it.
    If you are going to be in Miami I am sure Bill or one of his team would be glad to sit down and discuss this with you.
    Regards

    0
    #188491

    MBBinWI
    Participant

    Mike:  Generally, I concur.  However there are orgainizations (RA) that devolve into simplistic metrics like number of belts certified.  This leads to optimization of the metric – i.e.; bunch of “certified” belts that could put together a meaningful project if their careers depended upon it.  These “certified” belts then go out and get other jobs where they cannot deliver and bring down the respect for the rest of us. 

    0
    #188492

    MBBinWI
    Participant

    couldn’t, couldn’t, couldn’t

    0
    #188495

    Kev
    Participant

    Blooms taxonomy?  He mounts deer heads?

    0
    #188505

    MBBinWI
    Participant

    Why don’t you do a quick Google search instead of displaying your ignorance here?

    0
    #188520

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    That is so clever. Thanks for the insight.

    0
Viewing 27 posts - 1 through 27 (of 27 total)

The forum ‘General’ is closed to new topics and replies.