iSixSigma

Future of Six Sigma!

Six Sigma – iSixSigma Forums Old Forums General Future of Six Sigma!

Viewing 28 posts - 1 through 28 (of 28 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #51969

    Tuguchi
    Member

    Several Questions:
    Is it only a fad?How long it would stay?How to survive the current international financial crises?Is it time to establish an accredited BOK for the different belts?Should it stay as it is or is it time to modify it?
    Should we go back to the principles of TQM or what?Is it about time to announce the death of Six Sigma?
    Please consider those questions as a debate to brainstorm and  not to attack !
    Great Appreciation

    0
    #182124

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    What makes you think TQM had principles? It never had the impact SS has had. It is primarily a collection of a few tools with no methodology and fewer documented results taught by a bunch of guys who spent most of their time pontificating and rarely put themselves on the line getting results. You are living in the past. Get over it. If anything is dead it is TQM.
    Why would SS die because of the economic crisis? Where is the link between the two?
    A fad? It has been around for about 22 years. That is a pretty long fad and a dumb question.
    How long will it stay? Nothing less than 22 years.
    SS is not the answer to the financial crisis. It is only an answer to the people who had a good program in place before the crisis and see it as part of their strategy to get out of trouble. If you think you can implement now to save your company it will be a difficult implementation from the original model.
    You can modify Six Sigma anytime you choose. There are no Six Sigma Police that put you in Six Sigma jail if you change something that is why we have so many inadequate programs being taught.
    The BOK discussions are a waste of time. The success of a deployment has nothing to do with what happens in a classroom.
    Just my opinion.

    0
    #182128

    Don R
    Participant

    “The success of a deployment has nothing to do with what happens in a classroom.”
    So success of a program is not dependent upon whether the “so many inadequate programs being taught”? It doesn’t matter whether what is taught is good or not? I’m confused.

    0
    #182129

    Taylor
    Participant

    Don R
    You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make him drink.
    In layman terms You can have the best classroom material in world and some people are not going to get it. You can have the worst classroom material in the world, and some people are going to be able to do great things with it. How management goes about implementing and putting the correct people in place that can deliver will determine the success of the program.
    Thats pretty watered down and I know that, but lets face it, When your flying jets all over the country and spending money like the money tree forest is in your back yard. No Program, Six Sigma, or other, (however poor or good the training is), is going to save you. So the classroom has nothing to do with the success of the deployment. The success is ultimately on the shoulders of management…………..Period.
    It does matter what is taught, but there is no cut and dry six sigma training. Each and every company has its own needs. Having management in place that can recoginize those needs is where the real issue lies
    Just my opinion

    0
    #182131

    Don R
    Participant

    Sure Chad, I agree with you. And thank you for taking the time to express this.
    My point was – deployment success is not independent of what occurs in the classroom. That’s failed logic.
    People understanding how to apply SS is a critcal X in being able to conduct a successful deployment. Are there other critical X’s? Absolutely.
    I was asking Mike to clarify or retract his statement about it being irrelevant what happens in the classroom.

    0
    #182138

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    Don R,
    When you make a statement that something is failed logic it doesn’t really justify anyones time with regard to why they said something. That says you have made up your mind. If you want to know why I said something all you have to do is ask.
    There is a distinct difference between something that is irrelevent and something that is independent. I didn’t say it was independent.
    As was stated previously anytime you are looking for correlation and you have two different levels of input and both produce two different levels of output you don’t have correlation. The success of companies that deliver poor training means the market cannot distinguish between the training and the effect on the output. Logic or not the market says it isn’t there. This is basic correlation.
    Deployments are going to more closely tied to application and execution i.e. Bossidy’s book by the same title. Application is the third level of Bloom’s Taxonomy and does not necessarily occur in a classroom. The first two levels predominately occur in a classroom and create no direct business benefit, business benefit begins at application. Even application doesn’t guarantee a successful deployment but there will be a stronger interaction between application and execution and success that between knowledge, comprehension and success.
    We have watched this ridiculous praying to the false god of training material for over a decade. If you could do a regression on the number of pages of training material and the average benefits per project you would find ther is no effect there. The original material we used at Allied could be placed in one binder between 1-2 inches. Today to be taken seriously it is 5 three inch binders and there has been no significant increase in average savings per project with the “better” material.
    Is training a significant factor? No. If it is insignificant then by Pareto principle it is irrelevant.
    There won’t be a retraction on my statement.

    0
    #182139

    Don R
    Participant

    This is getting too old but I believe what you are saying is gibberish. Without hiding behind a 500 word essay you are saying – learning has no effect on doing. That’s ridiculous.
    You think I could study how to bake cakes then create a formula for rocket fuel. Absolutely not. What happens in the classroom is foundational to what occurs in the field. Have your own opinion but you’ll never move me off this belief.

    0
    #182142

    Stevo
    Member

    Mike – See I’m not the only one who thinks you’re way too wordy.  Bla, bla, something smart or witty, bla.
    Don R – Do you really not see what Mike was saying there or are you just trying to pick a fight because you’re bored?  I’m cool with you picking a fight, but not being able to understand the spirit of the words.. well I guess I’m cool with that too.  God loves idiots and who am I to argue with him.
    Stevo

    0
    #182143

    Fred Fielding
    Participant

    >> Is it about time to announce the death of Six Sigma?
    It is oviously near death if not already dead. 
    A bullet to the head would be the most humane solution.

    0
    #182144

    Stevo
    Member

    Accounting has failed too.  Math has failed.  Can we put them on a death watch too? 
    Stevo
    Ps.  Six Sigma is dead, Lean is dead.  But Lean/Sigma – Oh boy!  Alive and kicking.
    Pss.  The above Ps. was sarcasm.  Results will never die.

    0
    #182146

    Don R
    Participant

    Stevo, you forgot to capitalize “Him” in your last sentence.
    And, no, I cannot follow the convoluted argument Mike is making. I think he misspoke but rather than simply saying “oops”, he thinks a bunch of jibberish will cover the mistake. Learning is a prerequisite to doing.

    0
    #182147

    Don R
    Participant

    OK Fred. Let’s start at your head! BOOM!!

    0
    #182148

    Quality Guy
    Participant

    Do not be so negative about the future of six sigma, It can be applied to anything you want.
    Guys I need your experience and knowledge in order to eliminate several ancient doubts I have.
    In a text I read about collecting data for Cpk Calculations handle several preferences for reporting this index.
     
    The first one says; Cpk calculations per arrangement or part number, cpk is calculated when its available a sample size of 30 for each arrangement or  part number
     
    Second one: Calculate Cpk by means of percentage within inner quartiles, only when sample size is low < 30
     
    Third one: when your sample is not normally distributed, you can bring it to normality by increasing the sample size 30 or more (Central Limit Theorem).
     
     
    QUESTIONS
    About the first preference I know that for rapid calculations, one can use sample size of 30 but in the whole (Not per subgroup or arrangement) although actually you are calculating ppk but sometimes called rapid cpk. Is that true??
     
    About the second could you give an example about how to calculate this???
     
    About the third one I have read another text where the population did not change, the sample size taken to chart did not change, but they were changing the shape of the chart by increasing the sample size per subgroup, The only way they did this in by only increasing the class interval of the chart. Is that true???
     
    My main doubt is what increasing a sample size is, INCREASING A SUBGROUP OR IN THE WHOLE?
     
    Sorry for this large post but I know you can help me
     
    Best Regards

     

    0
    #182149

    w. g. miller
    Member

    If you look at the Six Sigma poll on this website (https://www.isixsigma.com/sixsigma), you’ll find that the “Six Sigma is hype” votes are 1% behind the “Six Sigma is truth” votes (37.8% for “hype” and 38.8% for “truth”.  The rest of the votors picked “undecided”.
    My guess on the low “truth” percentage:  A lot of folks were subjected to badly implemented programs.
    W. G. Miller
     

    0
    #182151

    Don R
    Participant

    I disagree with your conclusion WG. I believe the question is not clear enough to draw a conclusion from the responses. Six Sigma is undefined for this question. Responders are making their own assumptions about what SS means and responding accordingly.
    A more succinct question needs to be asked; such as, is the DMAIC approach to problem solving effective?
    This type question should never be asked in a survey…you guys know better than that.

    0
    #182154

    ?
    Participant

    Don can I ask where you teach? and at what level?

    0
    #182157

    Tuguchi
    Member

    Great thanks for the enlightenment
    But I understood that Deming was never able to have his ideas consisently embraced outside the realm of “TQM”!

    0
    #182162

    Mikel
    Member

    DonR,Your points and pursuit of Mike are petty.What he says is correct about the classroom. The success of the
    individual may well depend on what they are taught, but the
    teaching goes well beyond the classroom.But the success of the implementation? Top 3 factors — Support from top management
    – Action from middle management
    – Time given to the teamI can have a better result with no training and those three factors in
    place than I can from the best teaching in the world and those
    factors absent.Work your personal issues with Mike offline.

    0
    #182167

    Sloan
    Participant

    I was just thinking the other day about the difference between “knowledge” and “education.” To me, “education” changes your thought patterns and thought processes. Education makes you think differently than you did before. “Knowledge” on the other hand is the accumulation of facts. Sometimes “knowledge” becomes “education” if it triggers a change in your thought process.
    Training in a classroom generally imparts knowledge to the students. However, it is the active application of that knowledge that turns the whole collective experience into “education.” Sometimes that classroom experience itself is enough to provide education. In my case, my thought processes around solving business problems did not change until I had applied my new knowledge in a practical way. I can no longer approach problem solving the way I used to. That is the affect of my Six Sigma and Lean education.
    So to Mike’s point, imparting more knowledge from the classroom (i.e. going from 1 binder to 5 binders) has not had a material impact on the quality of projects performed. The “education” of the students is occurring in the field applying their knowledge to solving real problems.
    Success of a Six Sigma program (or Lean or any other method) depends partly on training and “education,” partly on executive commitment, partly on middle management, and enough time to see benefits. Poor management will derail any program, no matter how well it is designed and deployed. Poor training can slow the process down, but solid commitment from management and enough time to see results is more important in my opinion.
     

    0
    #182168

    Don R
    Participant

    And where do you teach & at what level? And why did your parents name you “?”? That implies so many things – few of them good.

    0
    #182169

    Don R
    Participant

    Thank you Outlier. Finally someone stepped up with a reasonable statement rather than blindly defending the brotherhood.
    In fact, Mike’s point is absolutely contrary to all that his fellow brothers beat the heck out of here – online training is useless, that OSSS stuff is crap, Villinova is a diploma mill…then Mike says what happens in the classroom doesn’t matter. I was simply asking Mike to defend his statement and all I got was smoke.
    PS: Your last paragraph says exactly what I said – there are multiple factors that impact deployment success. However, foundationally if you don’t teach participants proper skills, all the executive commitment in the world won’t make things happen day to day. They are all interdependent…how can there be an argument with that?

    0
    #182170

    ?
    Participant

    I teach process improvement up to the level my company requires to get the job done, depends on the group. and my name was picked quickly from a book as they’d got into their head I was going to be of a different gender. Your turn……
    I’m sorry if you think the question had any hidden agenda it didn’t I just wondered if Don was short for Donald or a title.

    0
    #182171

    Taylor
    Participant

    Don R
    Mike and Outlier said the same thing, and so did I, and so did Stan. It is a circle Triangle, implication and symantics of words is what causes arguments everday.

    0
    #182173

    GB
    Participant

    Don, I think you missed Mike’s point…
    Ultimately, education doesn’t matter…it’s how it is used at the tactical level.    If you assemble a team of 6 Sigma “wunderkind”, and don’t provide them with appropriate Sponsorship/Championship/Leadership and they are a bunch of low-EQ/High IQ duffii, you are going to fail.
    If working an internal effort, EQ, teaming and personality-type team balancing is important.   If you are coming in from the outside as a Consultor/-tant, then not so much, as the Client should be handling this…you are being paid to transfer knowledge and content…
     

    0
    #182175

    Don R
    Participant

    OK, fair enough. I’ve done both contract and internal, for my employer, training. More at the deployment level than belt level. And my belt training experience has been YB; no BB or GB.
    Having been far more on the point for deployment mngt than classroom training I know exactly what Mike is saying; and, other than the “it doesn’t matter what happens in the classroom” comment, I agree with him. I believe he misspoke, in the moment, but for some reason won’t step up to it. It’s not that hard to do.

    0
    #182176

    Don R
    Participant

    hb, I did not miss Mike’s point. In fact, for the most part I agree with him.
    But he said “what happens in the classroom doesn’t matter”. I challenged only that statement. That part of what he said is incorrect. That’s all I’m trying to say. Amazing.
    Tell me, please, how a deployment can be successful if the belts do not have skills to implement improvements? Just answer that little issue. I get the bigger issue.

    0
    #182179

    GB
    Participant

    Yep…you missed it.

    0
    #182188

    Mikel
    Member

    Ever consider that he doesn’t agree with you? Or even maybe he
    doesn’t respect your opinion but isn’t going to make that the issue?I believe you made a big deal of something, in the moment, but for
    some reason you won’t step up to it. It’s not that hard to do.

    0
Viewing 28 posts - 1 through 28 (of 28 total)

The forum ‘General’ is closed to new topics and replies.