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History Behind 1% BB Recommended

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  • #48490

    Cabaniss
    Participant

    Does anyone know where the 1% BB recommendation comes from?  Is there a historical reference other than saying it’s a “rule of thumb”.  I would presume there is some data or complete analysis somewhere to suggest why this number is recommended, but have yet to find it anywhere. 
    Also is there a standard as well for GB % to train and if so, is there a historical reference to point to for this recommendation. 
    Thanks.

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    #163678

    Brandon
    Participant

    My belief is the number was picked by the training companies in an effort to sell BB waves.
    Since the complexity of processes across industries varies significantly I can’t see how such a “rule” can be applicable. I believe the CEO or Div Mgr or whomever must decide to embrace SS, do the Exec Intro, then preliminary project selection then assess the complexity of the potential projects. Much like the approach to any resource decision.
    Highly complex, high volume manufacturing operations where the slightest variation can have disasterous consequences may need a sizable number of BB’s (this also depends on the velocity with which they want to attack the problems). An insurance company with primarily people processes may benefit greatly from a sizable number of YB’s and very few BB’s.
    So, I see no validity to a “rule” such as 1%. It has no basis.

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    #163683

    GE
    Participant

    The 1% BB came from GE data study collected in 1999. 10% of all GE employees’ fall into management roles and 1% top leadership roles and Jack Welsh wanted all his leaders to be BB skilled. Jack Welsh also wanted 50% of the employee make-up that he called DNA to be Green Belt skilled. Many businesses would run from a training/coaching consulting proposal for 50% GB, so the number is usually stated as 3-6% of employee base. Guess, GE believed there was a business gain for having 50% GB DNA – and since they are still doing great, I’d have to say Jack was probably right again.

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    #163687

    Mikel
    Member

    What BS, Brandon is right.
    The 1% was used long before your imagined study of 1999.

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    #163688

    GE
    Participant

    Thanks – good catch, sorry for the typo, it was 1989. I forgot the name of the consulting firm that did the study, I could probably look it up in my archived files, but it was the 3rd year of the annual survey (started in 1986) in GE Capital and then across the rest of the GE businesses.

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    #163692

    Mikel
    Member

    What BS, this was used in SS long before GE.I know you guys from GE think the world revolves around GE, but it
    does not.Brandon gave the correct answer.

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    #163693

    GE
    Participant

    I respectfully disagree, prove it was used before GE, try putting a little meat behind your single opinion

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    #163694

    Brandon
    Participant

    Wait a minute guys – let’s put some rational thinking together here.
    I’m sure GE did a study (or many studies) about the proper mix for them. However, to think it began in 1986 is bit much. SS wasn’t even born then or was, at best, in its infancy at Motorola and certainly not outside Motorola as yet. And I doubt it was even called SS at that point – could be wrong on that.
    All that aside, however, the training industry – the Academy and other first movers would certainly not have defaulted to some internal study by GE. This stuff was so new then nobody dominated the SS market.
    My guess is it was a number Harry pulled out of the hat to sell more SS. And we’ve all used it since.
    I still hold to my original posting – there is no magic number. It depends on the complexity of your processes.

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    #163796

    GE
    Participant

    Brandon, you are correct in that GE did many studies, the 1% concept at GE started with CAP and was related to “Change Leaders” – when GE started Six Sigma, it was MAIC – it wasn’t until GE was 2 years into their program that they added the Define phase. Note: the Define Phase was very simple at that time and has matured a lot. GE also saw Six Sigma as a skillset for its Leadership Development program. I am not saying the 1% is a definitive answer to the question but sharing these facts as an answer to how GE came to use the 1%.

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    #163797

    Mikel
    Member

    What BS. The 1% was given to GE by Rich Schroeder at the time of the sell to GE.
    Define has matured? GE is doing Value Stream Mapping and calling it Six Sigma these days. All of the good BB’s left years ago, most before 2000.

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    #163799

    Dr. Scott
    Participant

    Brandon, Stan and perhaps others have and will give you good advice on this question.
    The number of BBs needed is dependent upon many things:

    Process and/or value stream complexity
    Length of process or value stream (i.e., number of steps and sub-processes involved in the final delivery of value to the customer)
    The number of value streams
    The number of locations involved in the value stream (more locations likely means more BBs needed)
    Etc.
    I am certain my esteemed colleagues can come up with more variables to help you decide. But the 1% rule is arbitrary. The important thing is, have all your important bases covered with a BB. And have proper mentoring of the BBs by one or more MBBs.
    My Best to You and Good Luck,
    Dr. Scott
     

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    #163818

    GE
    Participant

    Your wrong Stan, i’m not going to argue with you, i have read your posts over the years and you think your a know-it-all. If you believe the 1% came from another source then prove it.

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    #163825

    fake accrington alert
    Participant

    Stan is Stan,but  who  are  you?

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    #163832

    Mikel
    Member

    I am not a know-it-all, I’m just a know-more -than-you.All these urban legends that GE folks have about how the earth
    revolves around themselves get old. You don’t actually have anything
    to prove your GE story, just heresay.The 1% was first discssed in my presence in December 1994 with
    respect to the AlliedSignal implementation. GE did not even know how
    to spell Six Sigma then.

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    #163839

    GE
    Participant

    You’re a legend in your own mind

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    #163840

    GE
    Participant

    I’m GE and you are fake accrington alert
    You show me yours and I’ll show you mine

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    #163841

    Mikel
    Member

    That may be so, but calling me names doesn’t make your cute little
    fable about GE true.

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    #163845

    Brandon
    Participant

    Well, Bandit, has the question been answered to your satisfaction?

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    #163852

    fake accrington alert
    Participant

    Is it  difficult  to  spell Six Sigma?
    May  be  mixing  between Sex & Six

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    #163855

    Brandon
    Participant

    Funny you should say that FAA. I saw a post when I did a key word search where Six Sigma was mis-typed as Six Stgma. lmao!!!

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    #163857

    fake accrington alert
    Participant

    Agree
    I  have  nothing  to show
    I  know nothing  about  nothing
    Rememeber  that  I’m the  old MB & ATI
    Please  show  us  what  you  know ,cleverboy 

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    #163859

    Mikel
    Member

    You know those GE guys.
    They are currently having trouble spelling Value Stream Mapping, they spell it Six Sigma.

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    #163860

    GE
    Participant

    I am an old BB from GE [1996-1998], currently a Director at GEMS [GE Medical Systems] but still have to lead a project every year. won’t say my name as I am at work

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    #163862

    Mikel
    Member

    Hey Fake,
    Let’s go visit this guy in Milwaukee. They have this big war room with partially completed value stream maps every where. Trying to figure out how to deliver on time in  with a 4 or 5 month lead time. Pretty simple sxxt.
    Hey GE, any of those annual projects use many Six Sigma tools lately? Be careful with your answer, I’ve been in your facility lately so I know.

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    #163863

    GE
    Participant

    You obviously did not work at GE, you need to have solid communication skills in order to get/stay hired. I have never done a value stream map; I was trained in six sigma, not lean, but hoping to learn this tool soon. I am not trying to stand on a podium nor toot my own horn. I come on this forum periodically to learn and offer assistance when able, not take abuse from a negative and offensive person such as you. I shared a real story from GE, you can go read similar stories (if capable) in the published works of Jack Welsh. Good day.

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    #163864

    Mikel
    Member

    You shared a fable and now you are lying.
    I’ve read everything that Jack has written and there was never a story of how a 19xx (what convenient date did you settle on?) study became the basis for the 1% number published in ?
    (hint, it wasn’t anything by Jack – can you say Harry and Schroeder?)
    GE, you passed along a story that I am sure you heard at GE. It just isn’t true. Tell us all the book and page of a Jack Welch book this is cotained in.

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    #163866

    Brandon
    Participant

    Don’t mean to cause a problem but it’s Jack Welch – not Jack Welsh.

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    #163868

    Mikel
    Member

    Good call. The dufus doesn’t even know how to spell God’s name.
    Between this guy and the registered preditor that used to work at GE, they aren’t looking so good. Neither is their stock.

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    #163893

    GE
    Participant

    Thanks Brandon, was typing to fast

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    #163900

    GE
    Participant

    Stan, we do not have a facility in Milwaukee. Who were you working with up here and what is your full name? I can easily check on your involvement or if your the fake i suspect you are.

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    #163902

    Dr. Darth aka Darth
    Participant

    GE, of course Stan is a fake.  It took you that long to figure it out?  I also worked at GEC and nobody ever heard of him.  I am going to unmask this fake so you can Google him and see what a sham he is.  Let it be known that Stan’s real name is Mario Perez-Wilson.  Now check out that name and you will see what a blowhard fraud he is.  As for the site in Milwaukee, Stan confused his site visit with the brewery he was hanging out at. 

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    #163904

    Brandon
    Participant

    Stan heard they have Bucks in Milwaukee so he went up there looking for them.

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    #163905

    OW
    Participant

    According to the GE website they have job openings in Milwaukee in the following business units – GE Healthcare and GE Infrastrucure Water and Process Technologies.  A business unit would suggest GE has some kind of facility or facilities there.
                          Old & Weary

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    #163907

    Mikel
    Member

    Okay, Wauwatosa.10 or so miles west of Milwaukee. I believe it is on Innovation Dr.You’ll have me checked out? In your dreams. What is this
    Management by intimidation?You’ve called me names, degraded by communication skills and
    now you think you’ll intimidate me?Cite your reference in the Welch (or Welsh as you call him) book.You’re the fraud, you were caught talking out your axx and you’ll
    solve the problem by calling people names?GE must be proud.

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    #163908

    Mikel
    Member

    Hey Darth, Mario will remember you did that to him.This guy is a clown.

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    #163910

    Recovering MBB
    Participant

    There is no six sigma at GE, especially in GE Healthcare.
    The program is a farce.
    The trainig is an awful mix of watered down six sigma & lean tools.
    Milwaukee is more focused on counting the number of kaizens poorly trained “lean leaders” are conducting than actual results. Talk about “waste”.
    As usual with GEHC, there is no lean six sigma strategy . Just a bunch of vague powerpoints.
    Even more pathetic is their NPS program. No one in Milwaukee can define NPS’s growth metric.
    Mr GE Director probably thinks GE invented NPS & lean.

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    #163922

    Stan or Mario?
    Member

    Mario are you a legal US Citizen?

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    #163934

    fake accrington alert
    Participant

    That would  surprise  me

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    #163955

    Mikel
    Member

    I would be surprised as well.

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    #163956

    Mikel
    Member

    I can tell you, with confidence, that Mario is. Mario is a fine person
    and a consummate professional. Let’s leave him out of the foolishness
    that we do here.Stan is a card carrying citizen of the Conch Republic.

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    #163957

    GE
    Participant

    I am not name calling with you Stan. If your legit, prove it

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    #163959

    Mikel
    Member

    GE,
    Let me talk sloooow.
    I will use small sentences.
    You made a claim that you can’t back up.
    Admit it and get on with life.
    You threw out a claim it came from a book from Jack.
    It did not.
    I have read them.
    Cite a reference or drop the nonsense.
    And yes I’ve been inside your Wauwatosa facility recently.
    I know several of the MBB’s there.
    I know which ones are looking for jobs.
    Do you?

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    #163960

    Mikel
    Member

    Brandon gave you a mostly right answer with his first answer.
    The 1% actually came from the marketing genius of Rich Schroeder as a way to sell big contracts. That is also where the claims of savings of projects also came from.
    This is what it looks like –
    Selling a contract – How many employees do you have? Okay, then you will need x waves of training (in the old days the formula was #of employees / 100, then divide that number by 30).
    Leadership training after the contract is signed.- how much money do you need to bring to the bottom line? Oh! Then you will be needing y additional waves of training, we should start that immediately. (in the old days the formula was needed savings/US$600,000, then divide that number by 30). The 600,000 was 100,000/project x 6 projects per year for a certified BB.
    This sold some big contracts and also brought some huge (mostly unsustainable) bottom line results.
    Notice how all the number are convenient for dividing in your head on the fly. The GE guys screwed the simplicity up by claiming an average savings of US$175,000.

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    #163964

    GE
    Participant

    Stan, I believe there is a story by Jack in his book on CAP, I am at work so do not have it with me, I’ll look into it over the weekend and try to locate if I have time.
    No, I do not know which MBB’s are looking for Jobs and don’t care about that.
    Since we are talking about credibility, what is your full name, company you worked for when doing business with GE, when did you do business with GE and who was your point of contact? Can you provide a reference or do you not have one? If you want to talk this off-line, we can, how can I reach you?

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    #163966

    Mikel
    Member
    #163969

    GE
    Participant

    Fine, i will contact you and talk to you offline

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    #163973

    Long
    Member

    What a crock…this is what is to be expected from GE..and more specifically Whelch..

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    #163974

    GE
    Participant

    What are you in disagreement with?

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    #163975

    Ron
    Member

    Forget about “rules of thumb” what is required in any BB implementation is an appropriate infrastructure. A fulltime BB can mentor 10 or 12 GB’s. A partime BB can mentor only 3-5 GB’s
    A number of BB’s and GB’s normalyy comes from an assignment of ROI (i.e. each BB return $1M/yr) I need to save 20 Million ergo I need 20 BB’s.
    Worry more about the infrastrucutre and less about some artifical format that some alleged compnay might have made up.
     
     

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    #163980

    Darth
    Participant

    Don’t respond to that address…it is spam and will infect your computer with lots of pictures of naked people on SoBe.

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    #163984

    GE
    Participant

    It’s ok Darth, i used my online gmail spam e-mail. I don’t know who this Stan person is, so waiting to see if real or not. Can i presume he is not Mario as in your earlier post?

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    #163986

    GE
    Participant

    Ron, i agree, thank you for bringing back the practical. focus on results and the resources needed to get you there.

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    #163988

    Brandon
    Participant

    “naked people on SoBe” – what was the address again?

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    #163989

    Brandon
    Participant

    GE – that was the essense of my first post to Bandit’s inquiry. Oct 23rd.

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    #163997

    Darth
    Participant

    GE, you got me.  Stan is not Mario.  The email address is valid.  And Stan in real life is someone worthy of knowing.  His online demeanor is a put on….wait, he is an axxhole in real life as well but he is very experienced and knowledgable and I have been fortunate to know him at a professional and personal level.  The drinking thing is real and he does enjoy his liquor now and then.  In summary, Stan aka XXXXX is for real.

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    #163998

    Journeyman
    Participant

    Brandon,
        Sort of but you included many invectives re/ the 1% and general arrogance in your post which clouded your facts. Ron’s post was simply more concise and less opinionated making it more readable. I have worked at the Academy and know both Mikel & Rick and I have always understood it to be their extimate based on their experience on reaching a tipping point. As a SSA consultant that is what I told the clients when asked. That aside you guys need to grow up and treat this as a forum to aid and network with each other not a place to whip it out and see whose is the biggest.

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    #164000

    Brandon
    Participant

    Sorry Journeyman – just reread my post and don’t see the attitude you portray as there. It contains a bit of a swipe at training companies (of which I was a part as well) but that is material in my mind since my position is there is no basis in the 1% “rule”. It was contrived, not calculated – for the other reasons I stated.
    Example:
    Intel – highly complex processes with a huge number of opportunities for variation.
    WalMart – huge employee population of low level skills and replicated throughout 100’s of outlets.
    To apply a % of employees to their respective SS skills needs is ludicrous.

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    #164004

    Journeyman
    Participant

    Brandon,
                 Agreed. The standard is to a degree arbitrary. But the environment at the time needed a “one size fits all” approach (customization aka variation was not tolerated). So the 1% became the best way to adjusted deployment size based on organization size & it certainly didn’t hurt the consulting groups. I realized after I sent the post that I had attributed some of Stan’s posts to you when reading through the string so my apologies there. Stan is just plain vitrolic and ridiculous. My recommendations to all out there is to ignore him(s). He seems to post on every topic and always to cause trouble. Don’t respond at all and maybe he (they) will go away. Take care Brandon.

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    #164007

    Darth
    Participant

    Journeyguy, guess you haven’t been here long to suggest that anybody can make Stan go away.  People better than you have tried to no avail.  He is the MRSA of isixsigma.

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    #164008

    Brandon
    Participant

    OK, J-man, thx. But please, please do not confuse me with Stan again.
    I’m taller.

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    #164009

    GE
    Participant

    Stan and I have discussed the topic offline and think we understand each others perspective better. We shall see. We like to drink in Wisconsin too.

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    #164015

    Mikel
    Member

    Hey genius, if you knew Schroeder, you would not call him Rick. He does not go by that name.

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    #164017

    Mikel
    Member

    “He seems to post on every topic and always to cause trouble”
    Hey genius, you call yourself a BB? Go do your homework before you make such stupid statements. For example, what % of topics have I commented on in the past day, week, month?

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    #164018

    Brandon
    Participant

    Re: Schreoder – he likes to be called what he is – Rich!!

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    #164019

    Mikel
    Member

    Exactly.
    I hope that fool does not confuse the two of us again. You should be embarrased.

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    #164026

    fake accrington alert
    Participant

    This  is  a  german name

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    #164032

    Stan_Darth
    Member

    Is Stan and Darth the same person or just wish they were?
    You should be fortunate your even employed Darth, unlike Stan, so does this make you a better person? Who are you to judge Journeyguy, your no leader in social etiquette?
    Stan is your mentor and your game playing is just as distasteful.

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    #164033

    Stan_Darth
    Member

    Journeyguy press your button Stan? Described you to a tee or maybe Darth?

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    #164034

    Stan_Darth
    Member

    Fake the Stan_Darth  lapdog, portraying his incredible linguistic talents
     

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    #164038

    Darth
    Participant

    This is the biggest contribution that you can make???  Pretty lame.  As for your comments regarding me and Stan I appreciate the compliments especially the one on my linguistic skills.  And I am impressed that it took you three posts to put all your meager thoughts together.  The Forum is most fortunate to have you as a poster.  Keep up the good work.  And next time, have the proper courtesy to put my name before Stan’s since I am younger, smarter and better looking.

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    #164083

    Perspective?
    Participant

    Perspective? You were asked to cite the Welch reference. Can you?I think Stan was right.

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    #164091

    Perspective?
    Participant

    Perspective?
    You were asked to cite a reference you made to a Welch book. You did not.
    I think Stan was right.

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    #164093

    GE
    Participant

    I did provide Stan with references to Jack Welsh books offline.

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    #164094

    Ziggy
    Member

    Will you finally get off with the GE references. The company is not doing well and did not do well when Welch ran it.Buying up companies and spitting them out doesn’t make a good company.
    Besides Jack Welch learned about six sigma from his Bud Larry Bossidy. The origin of the number of blackbelts comes from the average dollar return on projects and the number of projects a fulltime BB can run successfully. Not very scientific.
     
    GE did more to ruin the reputation of true BB’s than almost any other company I can think of with it’s custome tailored program for any rising start ot starlet.
    Bored with your GE references…

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