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Hot Issues in Six Sigma

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  • #37188

    Achmat
    Participant

    Hi, I’m doing some research on Six Sigma at the moment. Please name 3 of the hottest issues concerning Six Sigma at the moment.Thanks.

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    #108921

    1 Phil
    Participant

    Based on some of the most recent posts I would say the three most pressing SS issues today are:
    1.  Will the guys with the best hairdos win the US election
    2.  Will the Gator football team win the SEC championship
    3.  Will the B of A layoffs result in the SS consulting field being innudated with MBBs
    Everything else pales by comparison.
     
     

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    #108923

    mjones
    Participant

    Phil-
    Put me down for your #2 as my hot topic.
    (Reason: Auburn being my preference, the Gator threat is a serious concern…)
    Agree: All else pales…

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    #108924

    Achmat
    Participant

    Hehehe. But seriously… would appreciate some positive feedback. Thanks guys.

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    #108943

    Mikel
    Member

    Since #2 has been taken care of by the evil LSU I would substitute the burning question of whether the Canes will survive in a real conference.

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    #108958

    RubberDude
    Member

    How ’bout them Yankees?!?!?!?!?!?

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    #108961

    jimbo
    Participant

    Achmat,
    I’ve been working Six Sigma project for only two years, but here’s my opinion on the 3 hottest topics:
    1.  The value of Distance Learning or Online classes for Green Belts.
    2.  The debate about achieving BB certification from ASQ and whether or not the certification holds value at other Six Sigma companies.
    3.  Whether or not B of A has taken over from GE as the corporate standard bearer of Six Sigma.
    My two cents,
    Jimbo

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    #108962

    RubberDude
    Member

    Honestly, Achmat, all you have to do is scan these forum postings to see what the hot topics are.  Also, take a look at the blue bar on the left side of this webpage.  It is full of hot topics and information.  You will find the answer to your question a lot faster doing that than by asking that question in the forum.  Most of us become a little cynical when we hear questions like that……..  If you want a better response…. ask a question that will challenge the talents that haunt this forum.

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    #108963

    KBailey
    Participant

    Here’s a couple…

    Will Six Sigma be seen mostly just as a way to cut costs, or as a strategy to improve quality and innovation, gain market share, and grow the top line?
    Will management learn enough about SS to “pull” or only to “push” the discipline? (In other words, will they learn enough about it to at least know what questions to ask.)
     

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    #108968

    VGB
    Member

    I would add the 1.5 Sigma  shift,the difference between the 3.4 DPMO and 2 DPPO,short term and long term,4.5 Score and 6 Sigma score…………

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    #108970

    KBailey
    Participant

    VGB, I find this fascinating. I may not be as much of a stats guru as some people on here. I would wager that if we did a pareto of factors in the success of Six Sigma in terms of impact to customer experience and bottom line benefit to the company in question, none of these “issues” would appear.
    I don’t know what the original poster was looking for, but I took it as being about the hot issues that will determine the future success and longevity of Six Sigma efforts. Give me good metrics for the key inputs and outputs and follow the DMAIC/DMADV roadmaps, and I couldn’t really care less about whether someone believes in the 1.5 sigma shift. Shift happens. The question is: what are we going to do about it?

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    #108972

    VGB
    Member

    Agree.Thanks for immediate response.

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    #108975

    mpl
    Participant

    Rubberdude has been around for what – 2 months??  3 months? And he’s already cynical??  That didn’t take long.

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    #108979

    RubberDude
    Member

    I was cynical when you were just a gleem in your MBB’s eye…….. LOL

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    #108980

    mpl
    Participant

    Gotta love the honesty.

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    #109000

    Achmat
    Participant

    Thanks kbailey, VGB and Jimbo… very insightful.
    RubberDude… have done as advised. Managed to get loads of useful information.
    Cheers!

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    #109027

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    Achmat,
    I am late getting into this mix but it has been interesting to watch. The hottest topic, as I see it, is the way Six Sigma is being sold out and is becoming “social convention.” Take the model that Watts Wacker put out in his book “The Deviants Advantage” and look at the progression in content and results as it moves from the edge to social convention.
    The very fact that we see so many people “doing research” or writing a thesis or their professor told them to write a paper about TQM vs SS,… and on and on. It is becoming inundated with academic BS instead of results – which by the way – results is the reason it survived birth not pontification.
    Just my opinion.
    Good luck.

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    #109029

    b.thomas
    Participant

    It’s all part of the mix, the yin and yang of life.  You have a disdain for academicians, re: the BA Business from Arizona State?  Theorists derive and practitioners implement.  You are obviously a practitioner, a Mr. Goodwrench, where Dr. Harry was more of an automotive industry visionary and leader.  You both have your roles and expertise and the world needs Mr. Goodwrenchs just as the world needs visionary leaders.   The only real problem comes in when implementers begin to think of themselves as visionaries.  

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    #109032

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    b. thomas,
    One of my favorite quotes from Mark Twain: “When you hold a cat by the tail, you learn things you can learn in no other way.”
    I am more than ok with practitioners.
    It is a BS not a BA.
    Good luck.

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    #109034

    b.thomas
    Participant

    A good level response to a smart-ass posting on my part.   I am also much more than ok with practitioners, and not every academician is completely devoid of common sense, applied practicum and industry experience (and granted the key word is “completely”).  

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    #109035

    Mikel
    Member

    What nonsense.

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    #109039

    newguy
    Participant

    one of the hot topics for me that i think is growing is qualification.  I am not a certified black belt.  Ive just been applying six sigma for a while the best i can.  I have noticed a black belt plague.  there seem to be black belts popping up everywhere and a LOT of them dont know 1 tenth what i do.  I consider myself a rookie.  I think managers and executives need to start learning this stuff enough that they can see through “purchased” certificates.  I’m sick of moronic black belts.
     

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    #109044

    Bruce Hudson
    Participant

    The curse continues.
     
    Who is your daddy?

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    #109048

    aBBinMN
    Participant

    A vision without implementation is a dream (or fantasy, or delusion). There is no leadership without implementation. Thomas Edison had the vision and “implemented” light bulbs and phonographs. Many theorists fool themselves about the import of their work because they don’t have to test it against real-world implementation.
    Other than that, theorists are great. They help warm our classrooms through the cold Minnesota winter.

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    #109050

    MN perspective…
    Participant

    I’m reminded of the Packer fan who was visiting an Elks lodge in Minnesota, eating dinner with some friends. This packer fan leaned over to a fellow next to him and said, “Wanna hear a joke about a Vikings fan?”
    Well, the Minnesota fellow said, “Before you tell that joke you should know something. I’m six feet tall and 220 pounds, and I’m a Viking fan. The guy sitting next to me is six-two, 240 pounds, and he’s a Viking fan, and the guy sitting next to him is six-five, 280 pounds, and he’s a Viking fan too. Now, do you still wanna tell that joke?”
    The Packer fan said, “Nah, not if I’m gonna have to explain it three times.”

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    #109054

    Achmat
    Participant

    Are there any practitioners here from the Asia Pacific, particularly from South East Asia (SEA)? I’m really interested to know what specific issues or problems that you’re faced with.
    Also, I’ve met Peter O’Malley (SS Deployment Champion, Ford Australia) and Alex Olimpo (BB, ABB Vetco Gray, Singapore) to name a couple. Know of any other Champions or MBBs practising in SEA?
     
     

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    #109068

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    b.Thomas,
    I am sitting in South Africa this morning with two Phd’s both I respect. They can and do apply their knowledge. For the academician that never has applied anything and continues to talk like they have – just more COPQ.
    Just my opinion.
    Regrds

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    #109070

    Vikas
    Member

    any reading material regarding application to construction projects will be really helpful.
     
     

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    #109078

    Dog Sxxt
    Participant

    Not every practioner is a true practitioner. Bob Golvin had never mentioned those so-called high profiled ex-Motorola people in his interview.
    And not every academian is completely ignorant about industrial practices. For instance, Professor TN Goh from NUS Singapore is not a dumbed duck as far as I know.

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    #109084

    RubberDude
    Member

    Was wondering when you were going to use your “what nonsense” button on that one….. LOL

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    #109089

    RubberDude
    Member

    Hmmmmm…… Philisophical question……
    Edison had the idea for the light bulb, invented it, but where did it go from there?  What was the point of implementation?  When he made the first bulb that worked?  When his whole house was lit with his new invention?  Or when numerous homes were wired and lit with this new invention?
    I’m not sure where I’m going with this, but I suppose it comes from the idea of what constitutes vision and what constitutes implementation.  It’s one thing to sit down and write a book about “big brother” and what “will happen in 1984,” but yet another when you write about an approach that you have tested and, to some extent, proven.  Is this not the case for the “visionaries” of Six Sigma, Lean, TQM, etc., etc., etc.?
    If that is NOT the case, then I have a vision.  All manufacturing should be fully automated to an eight sigma system.  You may begin implementation immediately.  Just send your money to me.

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    #109102

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    Dog Sxxt,
    It is Bob Galvin not Bob Golvin.
    Very typical response from you.
     

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    #109104

    Dr. Scott
    Participant

    Auburn doesn’t have to worry about the Gators. They should worry about Georgia later this season. And they should DEFINTELY worry about Tennessee and their desire for revenge in the SEC Championship game.

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    #109105

    Dr. Scott
    Participant

    Achmat,
    Now I should offer you a real opinion, rather than talk football here (I am ashamed I was tempted to do so).
    As many of the previous posters here have either said or alluded to, the big issues to me are:
    1) The true meaning of Black Belt certification. Does it really have value when so many are just handing them out? I like Carnell’s position of show me results, not your plaques and certificates (sorry Mike if I am incorrect in my paraphrase).
    2) The second big issue to me is all the bloodletting between past and current approaches to process improvement. I.e., is SS better than TQM? Is ISO more valuable than either, etc. It is clear that as a standalone approach, SS has proven its value. But it does have some gaps to fill. All approaches do. I advocate a conscious and purposeful use of many tools as needs require.
    3) And last, but not least, is the tail of what I said above. The renaming of established concepts to purport they have become something new astounds me. The tail now seems to wag the dog. The name that gets me now is “Lean Six Sigma”. If you look at most job postings today, they don’t say “Six Sigma” or “Lean Manufacturing Leader”, they say “Lean Six Sigma”. To my knowledge, the “discipline” of Lean Six Sigma became a “standalone” concept when Michael George published his book two or three years ago. Don’t get me wrong, I agree with combining Lean and Six Sigma when both are needed, but I disagree with re-inventing a new “program” or “discipline” name for it when both have been around for so long. What is next, “ISigmaO”?
    Sorry for the lengthy reply, and that I did not offer a third. Just my two cents.
    Dr. Scott

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    #109107

    Achmat
    Participant

    Thanks for your reply. I have to say that quite a number of practitioners that I’ve spoken to here in the Asia Pacific region tend to voice opinions similar to your points 2 & 3. It’ll be interesting to see what other developments there will be.

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    #109111

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    Doc,#1. No issue. Paraphrased well.#3. Just one issue here. Lean Six Sigma was alive and well with some pretty good people out at Maytag – one used to log on here pretty regularly named Sambuda. the two disciplines have lived in peaceful coexistence at Motorola since the mid 80’s. TPS has similar disciplines that coexist with the CI/SS type component as a subset of the lean function.The “new” complexity issue is Boothroyd and Dewhurst.Regards

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    #109119

    Dog Sxxt
    Participant

    Great, at least you know my message.

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    #109120

    Dog Sxxt
    Participant

    One of the GE subsidiary (a manufaturing plant) in Asia Pacific had long been using lean six sigma approach long before Jack Welch introduced Six Sigma to GE in 95. Self-directed team, pull kanban, poka-yoke, DOE etc were actively used in the plant since early 90s. The key indice used is DPB because DPM is too small for them. If this plant is located in America, I would say it be highlighted to GE CEO long time ago.
    This small GE plant is still around, but I am not sure their performance level is going north or south since I have lost contact with them since 94.

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    #109151

    Dog Sxxt
    Participant

    1) The true meaning of Black Belt certification. Does it really have value when so many are just handing them out? I like Carnell’s position of show me results, not your plaques and certificates (sorry Mike if I am incorrect in my paraphrase).
    Unlikely this is his true position. This fella put the black belt certifcate above everything. He did ask me to shut off my mouth because I do not have any black belt certificate. 

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    #109156

    Mikel
    Member

    I don’t know about telling you to shut off your mouth (although it would not surprise me), I can guarantee you that he and a whole bunch of guys out of Motorola in the late 80’s/ early 90’s value results over some stupid piece of paper.

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    #109159

    Dr. Scott
    Participant

    I did not realize Mike said something like that to you. I guess I should look more closely at all the posts here.
    But I can assure you that Mike and I both agree that BB certifications are being handed out unduly.
    Performance is better than a certificate. I suspect Mike would rather have someone working for or with him that could produce, regardless of whether or not they were certified in anything.
    Dr. Scott

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    #109160

    Dog Sxxt
    Participant

    That can be changed when your main income is generated from selling certificates. Sometimes consultants have no choice, have to sell belts  because many employers think that black belt will solve all their problems.
    I did tell one korean company’s MD, they can call six sigma as six donkey as long they hit the bottom line result. His answer is he wanted his engineers to use minitab statistical software to solve problems. This is six sigma for him.

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    #109161

    Dr. Scott
    Participant

    Stan,
    I should have read your reply before posting mine. Could have saved my breath.
    Dr. Scott

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    #109163

    Professor Plum
    Participant

    Dr. Scott,
    You wrote:
    “But I can assure you that Mike and I both agree that BB certifications are being handed out unduly.”
    I believe all of the idiotic posts and unprofessional behavior on this forum is proof of that!
    Plum

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    #109164

    Dog Sxxt
    Participant

    I did not realize Mike said something like that to you. I guess I should look more closely at all the posts here.
    That is a part of my feud with him. :-) 
    But I can assure you that Mike and I both agree that BB certifications are being handed out unduly.
    I agree with both of you. I did have a chat with a six sigma master black belt from a Fortune 500 company in a lean conference (in Asia) and he got no clue who is Shainin. (not Shainin DOE)
    Performance is better than a certificate. I suspect Mike would rather have someone working for or with him that could produce, regardless of whether or not they were certified in anything.
    The real issue is the market asking for black belt.
    I told many engineers that they can pass ASQ SSBB exam, but I told them also they still cannot handle a real black belt project effectively with ASQ BB certificate unless they see and learn from the shop floor.
    Dr. Scott

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    #109166

    Dog Sxxt
    Participant

    Remember, idiotic for you does not mean is idiotic for others; common sense to me does not mean is common sense to others.
    The world is very diversify with different kind of “idiots”. I personally know one chat with IQ180 call himself idiot

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    #109167

    Dr. Scott
    Participant

    Dog Sxxt,
    I suspect there are many good BBs, MBBs, and others that do not know who Dorian Shainin is. He and his learnings are not standard in SS training in the US.
    And I frankly could care less if they know who he was, as long as they know how to make “good numbers go up, and bad numbers go down….to create “more money and more happy customers”.
    And take care not to sign your posts with my name (Dr. Scott). That name and the quotes above belong to me, thanks.
    Dr. Scott

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    #109168

    Dog Sxxt
    Participant

    Sometimes (actually many times!) certificate/qualification means nothing. A US consulting firm sent a newly certified DOE trainer (an engineer from my former company’s HQ) to train us in Asia. Unfortunately, the DOE class have a few graduates in pure statistics and self-taught DOE practitioners. I think he learned more from us than we learned from him after the DOE class.

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    #109169

    Dog Sxxt
    Participant

    I suspect there are many good BBs, MBBs, and others that do not know who Dorian Shainin is. He and his learnings are not standard in SS training in the US.
    OK. A common sense to me does not mean is a common sense to others.
    I am a bit nervous when people call themselves a master in a field. A 4 weeks training to churn out a black belt master itself is a faulty system
    And I frankly could care less if they know who he was, as long as they know how to make “good numbers go up, and bad numbers go down….to create “more money and more happy customers”.
    I am ok with this.
    And take care not to sign your posts with my name (Dr. Scott). That name and the quotes above belong to me, thanks.
    Forgot to delete it after paste and copy process.

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    #109170

    Fish Food
    Participant

    Cat Pxxp,
    I was refering to the “idiots” who pretent to be other posters, pretend it is open mic night, flame other posters, write about things totally unrelated to six sigma, etc.  This forum is pure garbage, has no value-added content…  Why? Because there is no moderator to speak of who is willing or has the Chimichangas to cut these people off of this site and restore law and order to this idiotic little community we call isixsigma.
    I am sick of wading through the “Dog Sxxt” (pun intended) content of this site! I am finished and shall never return!!
    THANK YOU, GOOD NIGHT!!!
    Fish Food
    P.S.  I’ll be here every friday night for the next month, with a world tour with Rodney Dangerfield and Sam Kinison to be anounced soon.

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    #109171

    Dog Sxxt
    Participant

    ASQ tightly moderated six sigma forum has few posters. I am lazy to log in to ASQ because not many diamonds inside the dog sxxt unlike here.
    See the pro and cons.
    I have to go for ASQ SSBB exam now because market wants it. What to do? :-).

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    #109172

    Dr. Scott
    Participant

    I don’t know of anyone that can become a BB or MBB with only four weeks of training. If so, things have gotten even worse than I thought.
    Training is a requirement, not the standard. I have always required two successful and “significant” projects before I award a BB certification. If you are interested in all my standards, just ask.
    MBBs are a totally different thing. I choose the best of my BBs, then develop them along side of me. I have maintained a variety of criteria for when they become MBBs, but the most important is whether they can lead others to make “good numbers go up and bad numbers go down….. to create more money and more happy customers”.
    But to be honest, with all the worthless certifications being handed out these days, I wonder if I should bother to hand out one of worth. The most important thing is that BBs and MBBs have the ability and use it. Not what they are called.
    Dr. Scott

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    #109174

    VGB
    Member

    Fully agree with you.Common  sense.

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    #109177

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    Dog Sxxt,
    Yes I do know your message. It is constantly irrelevant and always about your ego.
     

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    #109178

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    Dog Sxxt,
    If you had ten BB certificates I would still love to see you stop that inane cacophony that comes out of that empty head.

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    #109179

    Dog Sxxt
    Participant

    I do not sell my ego so cheap and claim to invent a new wheel.

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    #109180

    Dog Sxxt
    Participant

    Really, only Black Belt certificates from Motorola worths a cent. I met an ex-Motorola guy who was trained by Mario also sitting in the exam room. I hope your ex-colleage can pass through the exam, otherwise I say sorry to your people.
    Stop dreaming the past good old day, ok. Yesterday is yesterday carries no meaning if you are still trying to leverage past glories.

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    #109181

    Dog Sxxt
    Participant

    Go to six sigma consultant websites to enlighten you the flooding of 4 weeks BB and MBB courses nowsaday. I would say six to eight projects for BB and at least six years in BB role before get promoting to MBB (and only for the top perfomer).
    People asking for certificate is mostly use it as a jumping stone to another greener pastures.

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    #109183

    Dog Sxxt
    Participant

    Marcus Evans is organized a lean and six sigma forum in Kuala Lumpur around this period. Many MBBs and Champions from Asia Pacific are supposed to attend the forum.

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    #109184

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    Dog Sxxt,
    There you go again with the emotion over the facts. Give me the post where I claimed to be the inventor. Lots of people were around and lots of people participated. The one with the clear vision was Bill Smith bits and pieces came together through a lot of people.
    You fell apart when we wanted facts on Lean so lets stick to the facts.

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    #109185

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    Dog Sxxt,
    You met one guy trained by Mario – so you say. In your opinion he wasn’t any good – based on? Mario’s success stands on its own.
    You have done what?

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    #109186

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    Dog Sxxt,
    The entire program was built on a course that ran 4-5 weeks and produced results.
    We are back to your opinion of how long it should take? You base that on what?

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    #109187

    Dog Sxxt
    Participant

    Of course Mario earned my high respect unlike some of former Motorolans. My surprise is another US consulting firm was choosen instead of Mario’s MPCPS for six sigma training when he was a country MD for a Fortune 500 company.
    Please do not diverting my “bashing” to your other former Motorolans. :-)
     

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    #109188

    Dog Sxxt
    Participant

    There you go again with the emotion over the facts. Give me the post where I claimed to be the inventor. Lots of people were around and lots of people participated. The one with the clear vision was Bill Smith bits and pieces came together through a lot of people.
    No comment on this issue again.
    You fell apart when we wanted facts on Lean so lets stick to the facts.
    I cannot tell you more about that because you are no longer in Motorola. I have to respect confidential kind of stuff.

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    #109189

    Dog Sxxt
    Participant

    The entire program was built on a course that ran 4-5 weeks and produced results.
    Plug the low hanging fruits is also called results for some six sigma companies. A common sense knowledge will do the job in this scenario.
    We are back to your opinion of how long it should take? You base that on what?
    The training needs shall be tailored according to a company’s internal competency. Not all companies have resources to employe right and talented people like GE. Motorola etc do, and following 4-5 weeks model blindly are real disaster for some companies.
     

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    #109198

    John H.
    Participant

    b. thomas
    I strongly disagree with your statement “The only real problem comes in when implementers begin to think of themselves as visionaries”. The Truly Great Visionaries of our time are also Great Practitioners and are not affraid of getting their hands dirty. The late Clarence L. “Kelley” Johnson of Lockheed worked his way through college(MS Aeronautical Engineering) washing dishes and began as a Tool Designer for the company.He later held positions as a flight test engineer, stress analyst, aerodynamicist and weight engineer. Being a very hardworking, creative and results orientated individual, he was soley responsible(at age 29) for the Hudson Bomber during WWII and to satisfy Lockheed’s British customer, redesigned the airplane to their spec. in a hotel room resulting in a 200 plane order.(How’s that for “lean” , in a couple of days without CAD, Yellow Belts, Green Belts, Black Belts, Master Black Belts and minitab). This famous Lockheed Skunk Works founder also designed about 20 of the world’s most celebrated aircraft(Ex: U2, SR-71 Blackbird)and received the ultimate Voice of the Customer(VOC) Awards,The Metal of Freedom in 1964 , National Medal of Science in 1966 by President Lyndon B. Johnson and the National Security Medal in 1983 by President Reagan . For example, the Medal of Freedom citation stated: “Aeronautical engineer, his genius for conceiving unique airframes and his technical management skills contribute mightily to the Nation’s security by creating aircraft of daring design with unmatched rapidity and effectiveness”. Kelley’s biography lists him as a member of the Lockheed board of directors in 1964 and a senior vice president of the corporation in 1969.He was a consultant to the Skunk Works after his retirement.
    He lived in the “can do” age prior to the issuance of awards for bureaucratic acronym dribble.
    Just my opinion.
    John H.
    *Note: I have never been associated with and not an employee of the Lockheed Corporation
     

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    #109200

    Dog Sxxt
    Participant

    Sorry, my English is lousy, “plug” shall read as “pluck”.

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    #109253

    rodger g
    Member

    Carnell – you have an inferiority complex akin’s to Darth’s.

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