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How Many Green Belts? Large Services Corporation

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  • #33422

    JVaughn
    Participant

    We are 2 years into deploying Six Sigma in a services company that has 50,000+ employees.  The division where we are deploying Six Sigma numbers approximately 8,000.
    I’m interested to know what your goals are for Green Belt training, if you are also a large services corporation.  Do you plan to train every employee?  10%? All high potentials?  What’s your ultimate goal re: Green Belts?
     
    Please answer the following if you respond:
    Are you a services or manufacturing firm?
    How many employees are in your company?  How many in the group deploying SS? (if different)
    How old is your deployment?
    What is the target number or percentage for your Green Belt training?
    Feel free to include any statement of the reasons for setting the target where it is.  Thanks!!
     

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    #90375

    kw
    Participant

    JVaughn,
    We’re a manufacturing firm
    14,000 people
    People in SS…. 0 zero
    how old?   after @70 months we closed all SS, such a waste of time and money.
    yellow belts all employees, green belts 2100, black belts 463, master black belts 137. Now zero on all belts
    After sending @$13,000,000 us dollars on SS. The largest long term savings came from ending all SS, hiring better employees
    And the hardest thing was saying we were wrong about SS. It’s just a way for people to pat themselfs on the back or cover there back side if something failed.(We fired all people who used SS for those reasons, 698 people)
     
    Remember…..QUALITY IS EVERYTHING!

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    #90377

    Tammy
    Member

    Wow, that’s amazing. What company do you work for?

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    #90385

    NKKhoo
    Participant

    Your CEO shall be axed.

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    #90390

    Jeff
    Participant

    Assuming just one project per Belt, and conservative cost savings / revenue generation per project
    137 MBB at $250,000 = $M 34.25
    463 BB at $150,000 = $M 69.45
    2100 GB at $50,000 = $M 105.00
    total $ 208,700,000, and at a cost of $M 13 that is a ROI of 16 to 1, which is not unheard of.
    In western business, PROFIT is everything, and quality typically comes much further down the list. Six Sigma is proving to be one of the few initiatives that successfully combines both profit and quality…
    And to the original poster – note the GB ratio of about 15%, which is a good maximum to aim for, and also note where the bulk of the money comes from. Even though the GB project is often smaller, greater numbers has greater impact.
     

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    #90392

    Praveen Gupta
    Participant

    I am with a consulting firm. However, I believe Service firm needs more green belts:black belts ration than a manufacturing firm. Generally, it is suggested to have 5-10% Green Belts and 1-2% Black Belts. The remaining employees learn basic understanding of Six Sigma with focus on process mapping.
    Ultimately, the right number and required resources depends upon the opportunities for improvement. Once you know size of the opportunity, one can decide how much money to spend and how many people to train and how many teams to form that will determine exact number of BB and GB’s.
     

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    #90394

    Praveen Gupta
    Participant

    Hello:
     
    Your experience must be very dismal and frustrating. I believe we all can learn more from your experience. Is it possible to talk to you more about it. I hope we can prevent more false starts and save money without wasting in misdirected Six Sigma efforts. I do write books on six sigma, I could help more people with your experience.
     
    Praveen Gupta 

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    #90418

    MacSwede
    Participant

    In my coorperation (45 000 emploees) the target is Green belt 100%, Yellow belt 20% and Black belt 5%
    We have been with it for 2 years and the targets are stil holding.

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    #90449

    Tony Burns
    Member

    Your dilemma is a common one in large corporations. It is compounded by issues of ensuring training consistency; costs, including travel and accommodation; employee off-the-job time; and training management. Have you considered e-learning ? If you are interested, I can arrange for you to speak to people in a similar situation to yourself, who have taken this path.
    Dr Tony Burns
    [email protected]

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    #90457

    Mikel
    Member

    Dr. Burns,
    Is it mere coincidence that you always make your web site address visible and the fact you are overly interested in people doing e-learning?
    I think not. You are not supposed to promote goods and services on here. Stop doing it.
    Adlibing the words of the great Jim Rome – Have a take, don’t suck and don’t come on here to sell your goods.
    You do have some actual knowledge other than e-learning is good (it’s not by the way), don’t you?

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    #90464

    s tandon
    Member

    hi every body
    i am a regular visitor of this site
    usually there is a big talks of acievements or drastic failures. ( all extremes )
    why it is so ?
    i as an individual wants to know the about this and implement the concept in real work environment
    could any body extend some help in this regard

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    #90481

    Tony Burns
    Member

    Dear Stan,
    [email protected] ” as displayed in my recent messages, is my e-mail address, not a web site address. It would be polite for you to display yours.
    You are entitled to your opinion about e-learning. Hundreds of thousands of people would disagree with you.
    Dr Tony Burns
    [email protected]

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    #90491

    Mikel
    Member

    Tony honey, don’t play all of us out here for stupid. Lets see q-skills.com, go there and we sell multimedia quality tools – duh.
    Hundreds of thousands of people will not disagree. I’ve seen how this stuff works. Management disconnected but we bought the employees a Cd Rom or access to a web site. Everyone goes there and goes through the motions and nothing changes. It is a placebo for actual change and easy money for you.
    Sell your placebo anywhere you want, but stop promoting on here. Just because you put a Dr. before your name doesn’t mean you are smart or we are dumb.

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    #90492

    Trev
    Member

    I agree with Stan (and you don’t hear that from me often). It does appear that you are only listing your email address to build traffic, not to be a helpful reference to others. It’s not appreciated and I will not visit your website or contemplate purchasing your products or services. You are violating the spirit of the “non promotional” policy on isixsigma and I would also like you to stop.

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    #90497

    Ron
    Member

    You obviously did not approach Six Sigma in an intelligent manner. This is not a new story.
    I wish you would post the name of your organization so I can make sure mine does not do business witrh yours !

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    #90501

    Mikel
    Member

    Doc Tony can always get a hot mail address for free if he is only trying to help.
    Doc – the king has no clothes – we can see right through you

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    #90503

    Spiderman
    Member

    Agree with Stan about the Doc and his email/business address…Doc needs to stop.
    About the failure of SS in companies….one of the things I think companies miss in the deployment of SS is the process managment piece.  You cant just have alot of GBs, YBs and BBs running around doing projects if you dont have a coordinated effort..and link these projects to the Companies Big Ys.  The SS project piece is a small item in the big Process management picture. 

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    #90509

    kw
    Participant

    YOU MUST BE SMOKING SOME GOOD STUFF(AND INHALING!).LOL, Where did you get the idea about those returns?
    A green belt $50k? at 2100 times?
    A black belt $150k? at 463 times?
    a master black belt $250K at 137 timeS
    After 70 months and $13,000,000 us dollars we closed all SS here. And I fired almost 700 people who tired you us SS to make themselfs look good or to cover there backside if something failed.
    Why not improve things without the SS B.S.??
    Remember…. QUALITY IS EVEREYTHING!

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    #90510

    Tierradentro
    Participant

    KW:
    Please invest in a spell check program or a dictionary. Also, take a lesson in english grammar so we can understand what you are saying. I find it difficult to believe you are in a position of authority to fire 700 people. If you really are in that position, then I can understand how your company wasted “70 months and 13,000,000 us dollars.”

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    #90511

    Trev
    Member

    KW,
    I ask again, since the last time I asked you didn’t tell me.
    What is the company that you work for where six sigma failed? I’m interested in hearing data from you, rather than emotion and feeling.
    Trev

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    #90514

    Scott C.
    Member

    John,Your comments about KW’s grammar has no place in this forum.  You are taking away from what is important about this website, which is the asking of questions and getting opinions about a wide array of topics relating to Six Sigma.Wouldn’t you feel terrible to learn that KW was not from the U.S?  What gives you the right to tell KW to “take a lesson in english grammar so we can understand what are you are saying”?  Since it is time to be critical of one another, I have to say something.  Look in a dictionary under the word “english” as you mentioned in your reply to KW and you will see that it is capitalized (English).  I guess KW is not the only one that needs a grammar lesson, huh?For what it’s worth,Scott C.

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    #90516

    Tierradentro
    Participant

    Scott C:
    Actually, I’m not one to be politically correct as my thinking is not driven by ideology. If KW is not from the U.S it still does not hide the fact that he is difficult to understand. I am glad, however, that you show the aptititude to use a dictionary; I’m impressed with your research ability.
    For what it’s worth..
    John

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    #90518

    kw
    Participant

    Scott C.
    I’m from Qatar, I’ved lived in the USA for @13 years, My family ar all US citizens. I have more than 30 years in manufacturing exp.I have a MBA from Sloan school of Management at MIT. and a MS in Mechanical engineering from MIT. A MBB from Raytheon. when i fired the people I prayed for there family, and cryed for the people I fired. I was just trying to have my input.
     
    Remember…..QUALITY IS EVERYTHING
     
                   KW

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    #90522

    Kev
    Participant

    Scott C,    I actually have to agree with John. John is correct when he didn’t capitalize the e in english in that sentence. A dictionary is not a grammar manual so be careful not to make yourself look foolish when quoting from it. I also think john is touching on a big problem in this country which most people are afraid to talk about. That problem is the prevalence of political correctness in this country. 
    I give him credit for bringing it up although this is not a political forum. It just shows how the english language is the glue in our society. If we can’t communicate, then there is no reason for interaction. And interaction is the basis for this forum. 

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    #90526

    Sam M
    Member

    In our firm we have 18,000 employees.  At any given time we have about 125 BB’s and about 10 MBB’s.  We also have trained about 250 Green Belts. 
    In my opinion you will know within 1 year after implementing SS wether you are successful.  You dont have to wait 6 years.  Usually its in the begining when most of the “low hanging fruits” are out there.
    It appears that this company only focussed on training BB, MBB, Green, Blue, Yellow belts and did not focus on doing a proper deployment including training project champions.  This company did not include SS savings goals that could flow throughout the organization, nor did they include any SS incentives/rewards for the people involved.
    Proper phased in deployment and goal setting as you get past the third year into the program will ensure that you are not wasting your resources.
    Sounds like this company has a major problem with senior management.

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    #90530

    kw
    Participant

    Trev,
    I work for IDA Inc. here in Provo. We’re a manufacturing company that make very large machined parts in my div.
    Remember……. QUALITY IS EVERYTHING

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    #90532

    John Hickey
    Participant

    TonyI agree with Stan and others. Your posts are exhibiting a hidden selling agenda which needs to be “cleaned” up.John Hickey

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    #90821

    Stephens
    Participant

    Its a real shame that one company didn’t get it. One of the MAJOR pitfalls in trying to count ‘how many belts’ are needed is that it does nothing more than suck up resources on projects and not ‘the right projects’. A better and more successful approach is to look at the strategy of the business as well as the functional area. From there look at the initiatives that support the stratgy and from the initiatives look at what specific projects address those initiatives. From there you will know how many, who needs to work on what, etc. Finding projects for people to justify their greenbelt certifications just doesn’t work.

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    #90841

    Jonathon Andell
    Participant

    Thanks for submitting a good question in the midst of a lot of name-calling!
    In my opinion, the difference between success and failure is not whether the organization uses “Six Sigma” or “TQM” or whatever else you want to call it. What differentiates success from failure is how well executive leadership understands and accepts their responsibilities.

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    #90869

    JVaughn
    Participant

    From the original poster of this thread….
    To those of you who answered my questions, many thanks…jav

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    #90954

    Don R
    Participant

    It seems that different organizations define Green Belt and Yellow Belt differently. What are the differences in your organization? Specifically, what are the differences (and similarities) in scope of projects, estimated COPQ savings, and tools/techniques used by each?
    Thank you in advance,
    Don R

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    #92687

    Gary Swanson
    Participant

    19NOV03
     
    Praveen;
     
    I just have to buy you a cup of coffee or a drink one day.  I am just finishing your book, “Six Sigma Business Score Card ” and have to say that I haven’t been this riveted to a business book since “The Goal”.  Books like this for me have been far and few between.  Your book’s broad yet focused approach to profitability and growth connected  dots in context with my 27 years at Delta, undergrad studies, MBA and Six Sigma training like nothing else.  You were a little reduntant at times, but I assume that this was in intentional because you know this stuff needs to get drilled in (personal institutionalization if you will).  Well done!
     
    Regards,
     
    [email protected]

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    #92699

    Praveen Gupta
    Participant

    Hello Gary:
    I appreciate you taking time to read the book. I do love your comments and wish everybody can read your comments! I did benchmarked The Goal, Built to Last and Execution before writing the Six Sigma Business Scorecard book. Your comments validates some of the benchmarking work!
    Regards,
     
    Praveen 

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