# Integration of LEAN into MY Six Sigma

Six Sigma – iSixSigma Forums Old Forums General Integration of LEAN into MY Six Sigma

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• #112018

Sigma Wolf
Member

1.  Mean Cycle of time to produce.  to break it down any further from there you go to elemental times
2.Underlying assumtions are Std work is being followed and no special causes exist
3.  Depends on the variation in the process
The statement is right if you think you have an issue.  the statement is “I think average cycle exceeds takt.”  This becomes your Alternative.
If you’ve made the improvement and are trying to show it, then the statements are reversed.

Hope this helps

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#112021

Darth
Participant

The assumptions I was referring to are in respect to the use of the t test.  I believe you will likely violate at least a few of them thus putting your conclusion in doubt.  Check it out especially the notion of independence and normality.

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#112023

Mike R. Hill
Participant

This is the kind of “case study” enlightenment that many seminars and books promise, but few deliver.
Thanks S.W.

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#112024

Mike Carnell
Participant

Stan,
I agree that this isn’t rocket surgery. I am amazed that Michael George can continue to pound out volume after volume on something that is pretty simple application of some basic tools.
BHP has a guy named Tony Eltringham who is another Marty Rayl – just naturally skates on the other side of the ice. He changed the quote – “Not knowing what you don’t know makes you comfortable.”
Think you are pushing a rope on this one.
Regards

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#112025

Mike Carnell
Participant

Mike R. Hill,
Just a thought from Deming in his Obstacles to Improvement:
The Search for examples (Third in his list) – You must understand why a practice succeeds or fails – examples teach nothing, looking for answers to copy
It is probably in a lot of spots but you can try “The Deming Management Method” by Mary Walton.
Good luck.

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#112026

Sigma Wolf
Member

Cycle times are independant of each other.  As for Normality, a simple test will verify this.

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#112027

Dog Sxxt
Participant

1) Open up any basic statistics book to see what are the underlying assumptions for such t-test.
2) Takt time is normal distributed?

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#112028

johansson
Participant

I don’t see what is interesting about that quote.  P-test says >0.05.  No difference.
Examples and answers teach a thought process if that’s what you use them for.  Aren’t they the same thing really?  How do you copy an answer.  Isn’t this just word play?  Help me to appreciate this quote.
Max

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#112029

Sigma Wolf
Member

1.  I’ll dig around some more but the basics are that the data needs to be normally distribuyted, and independant.  Feel free to add more here
2.  Takt time is a fixed Constant.  Cycle time may or may not be normal, depends on circumstances.

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#112032

Darth
Participant

Mike C, good to see you didn’t fall down the mine shaft as Johnny thought.  From what he describes about SA, you shouldn’t be lacking for work there for decades.

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#112033

Darth
Participant

I think you will find that time, being bounded by zero, will likely not be normal and even attempts to transform the data might not be successful.  Just a thought before strongly advocating a t test.

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#112035

Dog Sxxt
Participant

2.  Takt time is a fixed Constant.  Cycle time may or may not be normal, depends on circumstances.
Besides the normal and independent assumptions, there are also sample and population concept in statistics.
So, how can you draw an inference from an orange and apple? Perhaps you want to enlighten me on this area.

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#112037

Mike Carnell
Participant

EdG,
I don’t think you are being to simplistic. It is just like a lot of the stats posts – there is a lot of esoteric pontification by people are doing their best impersonation of the Greek philosophers debating the number of teeth an ox had.
Takt time isn’t any mystery. If you slap your cycle time mean on top of the takt time you will miss your delivery about 50% of the time (assuming normality – that is the part of the picture that represents time that is beyond the takt time). Takt time is a spec and you treat it like it is a spec. If you have a target of 100% OTD then you calculate the cycle time std deviation and mean, set a target 6 std deviations under takt time and figure out how to shift the mean to that target. As we all know that will get you some where around 3.4 defective shipments out of 1,000,000 (unless you want to have that stupid discussion around the 1.5 sigma shift – if you do post to someone else). Since you are running faster than the customer you will build inventory. You reduce that inventory by reducing variation and moving the mean of the process closer to the takt time – at the end of the day nobody care if you use a Lean tool or a SS to do what ever you do. It is irrelevant. I do agree with Stan that if you apply Work Place Organization and Standardized Work before you do SS you will remove the people induced variation and have less noise to deal with in your SS project (assuming there is one). Just look at the basic situation around Standardized Work – multiple ways to do a job and you want to have what – what could the possible application of data based decision making have in this situation?
Tools like a 1 sample t test (a mean with no variance – fairly robust against non normal data) and homogeneity a variance can help when you have to figure out if you are really making an improvement – since almost every Lean apllication seems to take homoscedasticity as an eternal truth.
Lean zealots have this cute little saying about “lowering the water and exposing the rocks in the river.” The rocks were covered up for a reason and you had better be ready to deal with them when you expose them and a SS mthodology isn’t a bad start unless you are one of those impaired people who take 6 months to fix every SS problem you work on. Basically you have 3 choices – 1. fix it 2. screw up your customer with defects or late deliveries (they don’t care about you valient efforts to expose your rocks) 3. cover the rocks back up again. If you choose to cover them back up again you will hear that “we did that back in ought 5 and it didn’t work” dribble but this time it will be true.
JIT/kanban is the product of a predictable process (not the starting point). A predictable process is the result of reducing variation and variation doesn’t care if you use Lean, Six Sigma or Lean Six Sigma and neither does your Leadership team (who will support you if you do actually drive results rather than whine about a lake of support) or the shareholders.
That was cathartic. Time for a rum and coke – give me a life.
Just my opinion.
Good luck

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#112038

Mike Carnell
Participant

Darth,
Trying to get wrapped up before we go home for the tear. We have been here 37 days and head for home in 3 more. The new roof started leaking just before I left so I need to see how much of the ceiling is on the floor.
The pipeline is pretty full. we just need to get some stuff over the finish line.
Regards

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#112039

Mike Carnell
Participant

Max,
You seem to like stats so lets do it this way. The null hypothesis “Not knowing what you you don’t know makes you comfortable.” = “I don’t see what is interesting about that quote.” Right now I am leaning towards failing to reject.
As far as the Deming quote I tell you what it means to me but that is like creating an example for you. When you are introduced to a concept it is pretty much unbounded – except by whatever personal experiential prism you have to gun it through. Now you have two choices. 1 Get of your butt and figure it out and what to do with it or 2. look for an example which now truncates your perception of the concept. It is no longer unbounded but it lives in a smaller box.
Please don’t write back and ask for an example – I’ll fallout of my chair laughing …………. again.
That rum and coke is looking better.
Good luck

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#112041

Mike Carnell
Participant

SW,
Take a look at some Nonparametric test – 1 sample Wilcoxon/ 1 Sample Sign for a 1 sample Z or t test.
Mann-Whitney for a 2 sample t test.
Kruskal-Wallis/ Moods Median for a one way ANOVA.
Good luck

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#112043

Darth
Participant

PxxP, as Stan likes to say.  Mike, I was just getting used to the Socratic Method and was hoping SW would have figured it out.  Now you spoon fed him with the answer :-).

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#112044

Sigma Wolf
Member

I’m sorry guys, I didn’t mean to make a simple statement that lead into an entire lesson for me in Statistics.
Takt time is a constant.  It becomes the test mean in a one sample T.  The cycle times become your samples.  You treat them like any other sample of data you collect with regards to population, power and sample size and Normality.
It’s just as easy to take 50 sample times, average them and compare that to your takt.  But you gain a bit of information like confidence intervals and Standard Deviation with the T test.

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#112045

Mike Carnell
Participant

Darth,
It is all that pent up traumatic posting syndrome.
Regards

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#112046

Mike Carnell
Participant

SW,
“It’s just as easy to take 50 sample times, average them and compare that to your takt.  But you gain a bit of information like confidence intervals and Standard Deviation with the T test.”
That is pretty thin. Actually anorexic. You are capable of better than that.
Good luck

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#112048

Sigma Wolf
Member

Gee whiz Mike, all I did was suggest a way to use Takt to get a P value.  I’ve taken a beating for that and now I am gonna get picked on for offering and alternative and an opinion?  I’m not sure what you guys are looking for here.  Think I’ll just keep my muzzle shut, sit back and lick my wounds for a while.  :o)

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#112049

Dog Sxxt
Participant

I either run an “expensive” 6-sigma cycle time process to meet takt time requirement as proposed by Sick Sigma people or got my buttock kicked by my customer for mis-shipment for a half of the time if I buy in your hypothesis.
I dislike both options.
BTW, please make sure you can differentiate “sample” and “sample size” before you choose an appropriate statistic test.

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#112052

johansson
Participant

I’m laughing too.  I misread the QUOTE.
“You must understand why a practice succeeds or fails – examples teach nothing, looking for answers to copy”  Deming
That’s where he lost me.  How can you copy answers without looking at an example?  Sounded like jibberish.  Especially from Deming, and with you quoting, I was surprised to see such an obvious ppile of double speak.  My fault.  Thanks for spending 10 minutes of your life pointing out what a pile of nothing my response was…
I still disagree.  Examples have their place. Max

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#112056

Mike R.
Participant

Well, I was looking for an exploration of the relationship between 6s tools and data classically generated through lean.   Thanks for adding your knowledge and effort to the debate.  With all due respect to your bruises, the technical discussion is very groovy.
Use only the number of tools needed to quantify the risks of an improvement.  Avoid redundancy.
Define confidence with as simple a tool as possible.  Eschew obfuscation.
If a person thinks an average is sufficient, I’ll argue.  That’s not Six Sigma.  Meaningful improvement with SS tools requires the distribution. Time-ordered or even mere frequency data can yield astounding improvement  if collected with a right-sized inferrence space and a representative sampling plan, evaluated to pre-qualify for the selected statistical tests, and reported in context.
Happy Hanukkah all,
Mike R.
P.S.  Interesting take on SMED, Stan.  Nice to see the contribution.  I printed it for my lean guys.
They are still considering a response.
Mike R.

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#112060

sam1tim315
Member

Hi Mike,
Am just a newbie (a big understatement) on SS, LEAN and the other stuffs you talked about on this thread. I am not in the manufacturing sector but in R&D and was hooked on this message thread coz i am interested on systems and abstractions that can be applied to my organization. I think i will start looking for books on what you are talking about to dig deeper on the details. Though may be off tangent, i just thought you might be interested on these books which i find very useful in my situation
1. The Fifth Discipline, The Art and Style of a Learning Organization by Peter Senge (available in audio)
2. Management of the Absurd (forgot the author)
God bless,
sam

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#112063

Mikel
Member

I agree 100%, but most aren’t smart enough to just apply the appropriate analysis.
Like the stupid example of putting a p value to takt time. Just trying to make up stuff to cover their lack of understanding.
You are on the right path.

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#112065

Mikel
Member

Let’s see, I can be stupid and go to my office and do a one sample t test or I can go to the floor and see with my own eyes if cycle time > than Takt.
Duh

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#112066

Mikel
Member

I respectfully disagee –
Ho: Miker is a dumbaxx
Ha: Miker isn’t really a dumbaxx, he just does know Six Sigma well and knows less about Lean.
Conclusion – fail to reject Ho – possibly not enough data.

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#112069

Arthur
Participant

Stan,
Duh is all you say.  I’m surprised that you say you have an office to leave.  The only people who ask you your opinion are your ficticious alter-ego screen names. I looked it up.  (trivial people like you  like you fascinate me). Mystery names appear from out of nowhere and ask oyu advice and thank you, then disappear forever not to ever be heard again.  By the way, I’ve read the occasional idiocy you do put forth as knowledge and Its frankly not very insightful.
I figured something else out too.  iSixSigma pays you to stay here and insult people.  Since they get angry, they tell people about you, the ultimate maeningless axxhole, and more people visit, more people come back to fight with you, and all the advertisers can get charged more.

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#112070

Mikel
Member

Dern, I have been exposed.
I guess iSixSigma will be taking away my million dollar bonus.
(Psss hey Julie – Stan is a ficticious name too – don’t tell anybody)

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#112077

Mike R.
Participant

JULIE, NO!!!!!!
AARGH!!!!  Good grief.
We finally get Stan (not a person on this forum, but the combined negative consciousness of all opposed to process improvement)…to contribute, and you pound him.  Look.  None of us are geniuses, but you can’t join the fray at this level.  Correct, but don’t insult posts.  It cheapens debate.  Please show restraint.
I must digress here.  Darth recently mentioned the Socratic method.  Stan thinks he’s doing that, but he misses the point almost entirely.  He merely insults.  Darth does it much better.  He asks leading questions to refine and define exactly where the thesis is applicable, under which conditions, and with what exceptions.  See the debate on cycle time, takt time, and p-value generation earlier in this thread, beginning late yesterday, for a good example.  Sigma Wolf was doing OK, but buckled when Mike C’s joined in the dialog.  Nice try, and thanks for taking that bullet for me.  You held up better than I could have.
Stan merely farts and and tapdances. (credit, Kurt Vonnegut, for that exquisite visual).  Witness his inability to notice that an entire thread of conversation has resulted from the correction of misidentification of cycle time as takt time.  The discussion was spirited and unearthed a nice bit of banter on shapes of distributions expected for cycle time, applicability of certain hypothesis tests to non-normal data, and the like.  Stan just sits and watches, until something unperfect happens, which doesn’t take long, then says, “HA!  you missed a comma.  Idoit.  Come back when you’ve learned to punctuate.”  Not pretty.
HOWEVER, when he DOES contribute, please let him say his piece.  He has only a limited ability to communicate.  Frustrating him will only force him to spit venom.
Regards,
Mike R.

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#112080

Mike R.
Participant

“Let’s see, I can be stupid and go to my office and do a one sample t test or I can go to the floor and see with my own eyes if cycle time > than Takt.”
AAAAARGH!!!!!!!
STAN!  Does your terrorism know no end!
No sooner do I defend the sancrity of the forum, you do this.
I go out of my way to protest your right to post content, and you do this.
Do you realize why I am compelled to call you last statement the epitome of cluelessness, the height of absolute… AARGH!
Someone help me.
Stan, you were working towards almost convincing me that you might have a Green Belt.  You actually posed a relevant question.  Quite Socratic indeed.  The SMED conversation that followed was very nice, if shallow.  Now this. Your total lack of appreciation for the core tenets of  hypothesis testing was tough to ignore.  But I winced and walked away. Your comments on philosophical connectedness of theories were almost criminal in their inaccuracy, but I held back.  If blindness and deafness were good enough yesterday, why could you not stay mute?  WHY!
If I paid someone \$100,000 and gave them a year to come up with a gem of stupidity, a sentence that most thoroughly stated the antithesis of statistically based process improvement, it would look like Carnell compared to your last post.
What a plague you are to clarity.  What an encumberance you present to understanding.
I can only hope you’ve been drunk for the past several days.  If you’re sober, man.  Man.
Isn’t there a forum somewhere else where someone would appreaciate you.  Star Trek, or something.  I don’t know…somewhere, man… go somewhere else.
Love you just the same brother.  No hard feelings, I hope.
Mike R.
P.S.  Aside, to someone who’s given me so such joy in the past week:
Stan, if you’re really trying to teach me, you’re brilliant.  I (Julie) really do think iSixSigma should pay you.  Do you think I have a chance to “understand”?  Is this approach the best way for me to reach your level of knowledge?  What I don’t understand is the value of the negative stuff.  Is that to help me with my incredlousness at your obviously concocted and obtuse statements, to teach me to pick my foghts more wisely, to teach me…anything?  You are either very wise (in earthly terms) or highly sociapathological.  Maybe both?
You really ought to see my presentation material and class structure.  I think you’d find it to be quite good in comparison to current offerings, but your input would be very welcome.  I love my students, and they have produced nicely for their respective companies.
Can I buy you lunch if we’re ever within 50 miles of each other?  Same goes for you, Mike Carnell.
[email protected]
Write.  Maybe we could have some honest conversation on the phone.  This posting crap is so sordid.

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#112081

Mike R.
Participant

Mike C.
“You are the Pan.”
– Rufio

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#112082

Johnny Guilherme
Participant

Hi Mike
You are so right about the “lowering of the water and exposing the rocks”. Back at my previous position, when kanbans were introduced and the WIP suddenly dropped lots of process issues came up and guess what people did not know or have any tools to help in sorting out those issues. The reaction was build up the WIP again and forget about gains made on reducing holding costs associated with reduced WIP.
Anyway I am busy with reading the six sigma team fieldbook. Its easy ready and makes a lot of sense.
Johnny

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#112091

Mikel
Member

Good job Miker,
You have insulted Stan, Darth, and Mike Carnell all in one post.
Go check for contriutions and you will find that you just hit 3 of the top 10 bars on the pareto.
And your comment – “just when we got him to contribute” – what a stupid and arrogant remark.
I have never ever corrected punctuation or spelling (except or course if you count the seance thing – I was just countering a dumb post with a dumb post).
You claim to be Chritian but regularly bring vulgarity into your posts. What’s up with that?
Go have your spirited debates and continue to ignore when people try to tell you you are wasting time with dumb tangents like your takt time p value rant.
Am anxiously awaiting your response on SMED. I can’t wait to see what insights you bring.

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#112092

Mikel
Member

The comment on the t test vs going to see with your own eyes is right on target. To many don’t understand that watching a process work  is more powerful than any crazy application of a statistical test you can dream up.

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#112093

EdG
Participant

Amen Brother!!!
As with any new way of doing things, Lean at our facility is the brunt of all jokes and reasons why things are not right.  At least until we explain what is really going on vice what the rumor mill is spreading.
One thing that I have had to repeat time and time again is, “Lean is not a solution to all that ills you.  It is not a fix-all or panacea.  However be prepared because it is going to expose all of your problems (the lowering water effect).  My job is to help you better understand these problems, look at then from a different perspective than you have in the past, and support you in eliminating or mitigating these problems.  Becuase the reality is that you have the answers to your problems, you just haven’t realized them yet.”
Rum and coke, tequila sunrise or Guiness.  Choose your poison (although it is a little early based upon my posting time).
Thanks, EdG

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#112094

EdG
Participant

Then I must be beginning to internalize this if I am “on the right path.”  —Just one more step in the right direction…
In another post I saw you mention about going and seeing.  Our management (not all but some) is having great difficulty in understanding that.  They were told this week in supporting our activities, do these three simple things:
1.      Go and see.  Our products are not worked from a cubicle, the value adding stuff is occurring out there on the floor.  So get out from behind that computer and see what is going on.
2.      Ask Why?  Dont just accept things at face value, understand what is going on and learn.  Additionally, dont ask Who (that implies you are laying blame) but rather Why (that will allow you to understand what is happening).
3.      Show respect.  We really have a motivated workforce out there, as we empower them you will begin to see that.  Right now, some have been so beaten down in the past that it is sometimes hard to see that.
Agree or disagree with what we are doing, I truly believe in my heart that we are on the right path
EdG

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#112096

John M
Participant

Mike,
That to me is probably the most sensible post I have seen coming out from you to date – FRAME IT !  Takt time plays the most important role for throughput and bottleneck analysis. It connects customer demand to the process and takes away the power of just using’ mrp to try and push things through the processes.
Takt time analysis and line balancing are what lean are really about but gaining stable operations take variation reduction. You can redistribute work to minimise bottlenecks between line stations but you cannot take out other variation factors without six sigma other than the human factors like stan said standard operations.
Keep ‘er Lit
John M

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#112097

Mikel
Member

I agree and would add –
4) No one is allowed to participate in a discussion of a problem if they have not seen the problem themselves.

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#112099

Sigma Wolf
Member

First off let me apologize for a missed statement on Sample and Sample Size.  This along with another statement earlier seem to have upset some of you so bad your missing the point.  I’ll try to do better in future posts.
Dog, I don’t understand what’s so “expensive” about going down, taking a few cycle times, punching them into mini tab and running a few tests.
And if your “average” cycle time is at or slightly less than takt, then you won’t shut your customer down.  If I need 60 pcs in an hour, I run 30 of thos at 33 seconds each, and 30 of those at 27 seconds each, at the end of the hour I’ll have my 60.  This means I am fully utilizing my equipment and operators for that hour.  If every cycle is less than takt then the process is fat and you either have machinery or operators waiting.  If that’s the way you want to run your shop then fine, but we pay a very good wage here and I want every minute I can get out of my operators.  You can run this tight as long as your smart about your buffer and safety stock.
You can check cycle versus takt with the go and see approach, but I say while your down there going and seeing, take a few measurements and run the tests.  Then maybe you can use Six Sigma to “reduce the variation” in your cycle time, opening up the possibility of using Lean to either reduce the buffer and safety stocks, or decrease manning needed, so that you can allocate people and floor space for new business.
Just my thoughts.  Sorry if I misspelled or missed a coma.  If I did I’m sure I’ll hear about it.

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#112105

EdG
Participant

Ooh, I like that.  Although, four may be pushing it.  Maybe we are best starting out a discussion with that and if we get a “deer in the headlights look” or negative response then sending them out to the source…
Thanks, EdG

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#112115

Darth
Participant

Hey Mike R, don’t I get a lunch invitation also or do I have to be mean and nasty?  I know, keep my friends close but my enemies closer.

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#112116

Darth
Participant

EdG, I suggest you try a Tequila Sunset instead of the sissy Sunrise.  It is 2 shots of good anejo, with a shot of Triple Sec and 2 pieces of lime….on the rocks.  Drink one at sunset and it will be the last thing you remember until sunrise.

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#112118

Mike Carnell
Participant

Sam,
We are all newbies in some sense. The day we stop being a newbie is the day we stop learning.
I wasn’t that impressed with “The Fifth Discipline” only because I thought it spent a lot of time to deliver a really simple message (that Michael Porter syndrome). I like the sounds of “Management of the Absurd.” I will have to give that a try.
I just found an old book “The Empty Raincoat” by Charles Handy (I think it is out of print) that was good but my favorite is still “The Deviant’s Advantage” by Watts Wacker. Good reads.
Good Luck.

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#112119

Mike Carnell
Participant

Mike R.
Thanks – I think. If I wear pants and shoes maybe nobody will notice?
Good luck

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#112120

Mike Carnell
Participant

Johnny,
I fell down a hole? These are some mas macho holes out here – I think you only get to do it once.
We are back on January 10 and back out at the end of January. I’ll call when I get back. Have a great holidays.

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#112121

Dayton
Member

Mike R.,

I have an idea.  Lets have a group dinner and take care of it in one fell swoop.   Bring Darth and that Stan guy when you, the family and Aunt Maude come for our holiday dinner.   My best recollection of Maude is that shell be more than able to keep Stan in line while the rest of us dine and hit the eggnog.   Mike Carnells sharp and a contributor but hes an ex-marine and a little rough around the edges so lets leave him for a more rowdy holiday  some German Wurst Fest or something.

Uncle Vinny

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#112122

Mike Carnell
Participant

EdG,
It never changes. Every 18 months you start a new deployment and for the next 3 or 4 months you get the little karate moves in the hall. Wax on. Wax off.
We have great rum here so we stick with the Havana Club and Coke. The atmosphere doesn’t feel like tequilla.
The problem is we live in the same building where we train and have desk space for the BB’s. They are miners so they start showing up at 5h30 and they are ready to go to work. That makes you think twice about drink number 2 or 3 or 4.
Regards

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#112123

Mike Carnell
Participant

Darth,
It is about time for Cabo at that restaurant by the harbour with Pina Coladas and a shot of Kahlua. It sounds a little foo-foo but it is time to kick back.
You doing ok?
Regards

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#112124

Mike Carnell
Participant

John M,
Thanks but you know what they say “If you put 10,000 monkeys at 10,000 pianos for a long enough time sooner or later one will play Beethoven.” Must have been my time.
Thanks again.

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#112130

Billy Graham
Participant

You claim to be Chritian but regularly bring vulgarity into your posts. What’s up with that?
His emotional retorts and evoking higher powers appear to have marginalized your input.  That’s what was up with that.  Plus, it’s Christian not Chritian.

Billy Graham

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#112132

Darth
Participant

Mike, then foo foo it shall be.  Yes, doing OK.  One of the advertisers above has been foolish enough to actually offer me a job.  The Darthster will once again be set loose amongst industry.

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#112142

Mikel
Member

Thank you for the inspirational insights.
I will try to remember to put Christ in Christian from now own. That Xmas thing has me a bit confused on the proper spelling.

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#112143

Mikel
Member

I’ll work on the spelling of on too.

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#112170

sam1tim315
Member

Mike,
I did not sense that Michael Porter syndrome in The Fifth Discipline (if what you mean by that syndrome is “o-verbosity”). The printed book with the diagrams seems to be “Porter-ish” but i enjoyed listening to the audio tape version and find it more relevant to my situation (R&D) where i deal with human problems more than machines. I guess in manufacturing, you have both !!
I will check out Wacker and Handy books, the titles intrigue me. Thanks.
Ciao
——-
No management “technique” is “human-proof” – from Management of the Absurd

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#112171

johansson
Participant

Mike,
You are on more than off by a long shot, but monkeys can’t play Beethoven..  They don’t have opposing thumbs.
P.S.  This religion thing would have died down a time ago except for Stan always bringing it back up.  He asked miker for the discussion.  Check the thread, all you who feel that this is being pushed at you.  1 message to Jamie, 1 to Stan when Stan asked, and every once in a while he said he trusts God and prays.  I don’t call that a whole lot to get mad about considering all the meaningless junk that passes for conversation on here.  Darth, don’t go PC on us now.  You took “offense”?  Where does it say anywhere that anyuone should believe anything.  I just don’t see it, and I’m not a super-big church goer or anything.

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#112179

Darth
Participant

Max, sorry for showing a human side.  There must have been a malfunction in the Mask or something which allowed it to come through.   I have fixed the problem so back to the Darkside.

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#112189

Mike Carnell
Participant

Darth,
Industry will be better off for it although it might be interesting for the advertiser above.
Stay in touch and travel safe.
Regards

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#112190

Mike Carnell
Participant

Max,
Interesting observation on the thumbs. Why do you know that?
Regards

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#112191

johansson
Participant

Well, I’ll be a monkey’s uncle!!  as they say.

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#112199

Mike Carnell
Participant

Max,
That seems awfully personal. You might want to keep that quiet they they won’t be saying it.
You snuck that one in. Completely missed it for a while.
Regards

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#112240

Mikel
Member

Max,
You are correct – I am picking on miker for just one or two comments about religion because he says he takes it into Six Sigma training with him. Let’s see, I am a jewish business owner and I have contracted miker’s employer to train my people. Am I offended to find that my class is being witnessed too? I would fire miker’s employer on the spot.
DMAIBA has a limited market.

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#112967

Jonathon Andell
Participant

Awesome quote about the “benefits” of case studies, Mike C! For years I have been uncomfortable with the value of case studies, and Deming’s quote nails exactly why. Those who use others’ experience to jump-start their own understanding are on the right track, but far too many try to copy without comprehending.
As for the extended thread of takt time and/or t-tests:
By definition takt time is a fixed value. We divide our available production time by the number of units that come off the line. A theoretical value.
A key shortcoming of tracking nothing but takt time is that it does not take into account how long a unit dwells in the production process. I know of production lines with takt times of seconds, but cycle times of hours. Little’s Law sheds light on the relationships.
The tools attributed to Lean – JIT, SMED, etc. – can and often contribute to reductions in cycle time. Somebody once told me that mean and variation are correlated in cycle times – can anybody tell me whether that’s correct? Empirically, that matches my experience.
Similarly, the tools attributed to Six Sigma can contribute too. I like control charts as a way to explore whether patterns of variation yield process information. If the data are available (often) and dependable (seldom), I like statistical analysis to do simlar exploration.
I suppose one can track the actual times between outputs instead of cycle times. At that point we could perform statistical tests, such as whether a process change has reduced either the mean or the variation of those values. My question for the forum is: has anybody tried this? Did it add any benefit?
Thanks!

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