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Internal training of Black Belts

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  • #44999

    Sloan
    Participant

    I would like to hear people’s thoughts on training new Black Belts internally. We, as Black Belts,  regularly do green belt, awareness and management by metrics sessions, and there is now interest by the senior management to have business unit leaders go through BB training like GE did during the Welch years – initially, GE brought in  consultants   
    To do it right, means a course more intense than anything we’ve done before with rigorous testing. Not all the people will succeed
    Has anyone done this in their company?

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    #145584

    Ken Feldman
    Participant

    Training BBs internally is fine.  BBs training BBs might be a problem.  Training senior management as BBs can be a joke as evidenced by the so called claims of senior leaders trained as BBs in some un-named large banking institution based in Charlotte, NC that’s not Wachovia.  Certainly a portion of the BB SS skill set should be used by senior leaders of an organization to manage better.  Whether it is worth the effort to go all the way to BB certification is a tough one to answer.  It is doubtful that a senior exec will actually be doing much of the technical work him/herself.  But, they should definitely know what the tools are, how they work and what they tell you about what is going on.  That’s more in line with “data driven decision making for senior leadership” rather than true BB work.

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    #145598

    Jered Horn
    Participant

    Theoretically…
    It can also be effective to have Six Sigma Blackbelt experience as a job requirement for new/open upper management positions within an organization.
    Much different than simply training existing upper management who have virtually no hope of ever using the new skillset.

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    #145603

    Sloan
    Participant

    Thanks Darth
    Hopefully, BB training will get the BU managers more engaged. I have found that the largest roadblock I face is support for execution of projects. A Belt can get thru DMA in good time and face an uphill battle to cut through the complacency.
     Or, it might give the “blockers” more tools to shelve a project.
    Anyone from GE, Motorola, AlliedSignal or other large companies have experience with training and certifying the leadership team as Black Belts?

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    #145604

    Brit
    Participant

    Only problem I have found is if the MBB trainer isn’t very high in the organization.  It’s hard to fail a CEO if s/he doesn’t pass the certification. Actually, it’s not hard, but it’s a bit awkward to fail your boss.  Hopefully they will all pass.

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    #145606

    hnhawkins
    Participant

    I am a Black Belt graduate of an in house training initiative. Since then I have been recertified through an outside organization at a different employer. I am a big supporter of in house training if it is done correctly. The company must be large enough to support an initiative. For example, I was a member of the 15th wave of training. We has 17 starting out but only 12 completed the program. We had an individual employeed as a full time trainer with our VP of Quality occasionally training as well. What I really really liked about our in-house customized training was that the application of the tools used examples of real life challenges the company faced. In my opinion this made it much easier to visualize the application of statistics.

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    #145635

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    Outlier,
    Internal training of BB’s (by MBB’s) is critical to ownership being internalized. There are plenty of consulting companies that will train your organization until you get carpal tunnel from writing checks. A consulting firm that is focused on leaving you with a stand alone program will transition to company resources training company resources. There will be a definate difference in the impact of the training. Regardless of how good the instructor and how good the material a consultant will always be an outsider with less credibility than someone from inside the organization.
    Certification of your top level management without pulling them out of their job and have them be full time BB’s is p_ssing in the wind. The classroom experience is superficial at best (reference Bloom’s Taxonomy). The minimum level for a BB needs to be Application and that comes from projects.
    That does not mean you should not train them. If you can track down an old GE MBB named Paul Trotochaud who was with GE Power Gen, Greenville, South Carolina (I think he is at Pratt & Whitney now – BTDT may know for sure) he may give you a run down on what he did for the plant staff there. It was very effective. I believe he condensed each week to an 8 hour class (obviously not to the level of BB training) so they would understand at more than a YB level what was going on. It did wonders for the deployment at Greenville without creating some special underqualified subculture arbitrarily based on their title.
    Just my opinion.
    Good luck

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    #145637

    BBGirl
    Participant

    Senior Leaders should understand Six Sigma concepts but teaching them how to use all the tools is a waste of everyone’s time, unless they are going to lead a project as a Black Belt.
    Senior Leaders have a role to play as Project Sponsors or Champions and they should understand the process that the BBs go through, conceptually, so they can help with blocking and tackling, but teaching them how to use the tools doesn’t help them be better Sponsors or Champions.
    A different approach might be to teach the concepts and principles as well as what sort of questions to be asking of their BB throughout the project so that they can be more engaged and supportive in their role as a leader.

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    #145639

    Stevo
    Member

    Don’t know what side of the issue this supports.
     
    I’m an internally trained BB.  I came from the mid management level and found the business knowledge and leadership skills that I gained there helped a lot as a BB.  My mathematical and statistical knowledge is not strong, but that can be attributed to I don’t have a passion for it.
     
    In my opinion, a nice mixture is optimal.  
     
    Stevo
     
    Ps.  The training I received here at Bank of America was good, however I was in one of the first waves and it was geared more to manufacturing.  I hear it’s gotten a lot better and more relevant.

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    #145640

    Sloan
    Participant

    Excellent input.
    I’m hearing:
    A well put together training course is worth the effort 

    Internal training for BB’s by MBB’s (not other BB’s).
    Internal training for the leadership team, but, not to the point of certification; – Heavy emphasis on the tools is wasted. 

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    #145641

    GB
    Participant

    AlliedSignal/Honeywell did not do this during my time there…
    Like most Companies, they held “Leadership Awareness workshops”.

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    #145642

    Sloan
    Participant

    Thanks  hbgb b^2 –
     

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    #145646

    Nope didn’t read that.
    Participant

    I was tracking with you until I read:  Heavy emphasis on the tools is wasted.   I did not read that in Stevo’s note.   I read that the tools trained in should be appropriate for the business at hand AND tools training intensity should be appropriate for the practice level of the participant, e.g., heavily intensive for MBB’s, somewhat less intensive for BB’s, significantly less so for GB’s and Champions, and a light brush for Leaders – those non-practicing leaders ensconced in their senior functional roles.   That’s what I read, and Stevo being my hero, I tend to not only agree with him but to occasionally read my own thoughts into his postings because, as I said, I do agree with him.

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    #145650

    Sloan
    Participant

    “Nope – didn’t read that”
    We’re on the same page.
    I was summing up all the comments, including Stevo. Heavy emphasis on the tools for the leadership is probably a waste. They will not use them. They just need an understanding.

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    #145651

    Nope.
    Participant

    Gotcha.   Same page.    Sounds good.
     
    Don’t let that Deming tutored Dr. Darth character on our page though.  
     
    Just us Juran guys OK? – you, me and Stevo (maybe Phil and Mike C. and the 4-Stans if they behave), but let’s try to keep it just the three of us.  OK?
     

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    #145654

    Ken Feldman
    Participant

    Nope, what makes you think I want to be on this page????  Note Nope that I was the first to respond to Outlier and all subsequent posts are mere restatements of what I said in my succinct yet insightful manner.  Anyway I am real busy helping that guy with the hypothesis testing question.  Let’s now refer to you as “Nope a Dope”.  It will go well with the thread started between me, Darth Brooks and Eric No Maas.  You and Devo Stevo can have this thread to yourselves.

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    #145661

    Nope A Dope
    Participant

    Hmmm…… me, Stevo and OutLiar derailing this thread while you, Darth Brooks and Eric No Maas derail the other??  Sort of a divide and conquistador approach??   Yeah, OK, I do like that ransack and burn the Aztec temple and run away before they catch me and eat my heart approach to technical forum interaction of yours. 
     
    Sure, I’ll be Nope A Dope and you can be Dr. Darf (Darf being a really cool with-it sounding slang type you-da-man version of Darth, as described so eloquently in urbandictionary.com).
     
    As in: Yo!! You da man Dr. Darf.  Rock on with your Robert Butler hypothesis statement restatements… 

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    #145662

    Darth aka Dr. Darf
    Participant

    Nope a Dope,
    I graciously accept the name change suggestion and officially announce that I will now post under the name of either Darth, Dr. Darf or Darth Brooks.  Any and all of those three will be mine and mine only and any imitators or name stealers will be prosecuted to the fullest extent allowable by the Forum Police. 

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    #145663

    Darth Brooks
    Participant

    Check this out.  I am prepping for my concert debut.
    http://www.dailyprobe.com/arcs/050702/darthbrooks.jpg

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    #145670

    Marlon Brando
    Participant

    I just  wonder how  to  become BB without good  statistical knowledge (no  passion  for  it?).I  don’t  believe  then  that  you  are a  “real” BB ,may  be  GB is  fair  enough   for  you (even  if  your  company has  given  you  a  certain  training).Just  my  opinion.

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    #145681

    Nope A Dope
    Participant

    Well……. you might want to first get on urbandictionary.com and checkout their definition of “darf” before you graciously accept anything, unless of course, it typifies and directly relates to your endemic and gracious SoBe acceptance of offers.  

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    #145684

    Marlon Brando
    Participant

    Please  explain as  I  couldn’t  understand??

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    #145685

    Ken Feldman
    Participant

    Boy, goes to show, you just can’t trust a guy named “Nope a Dope”.  I am OK with the first definition because that certainly fits the Darth persona both in the movie and in reality.  Guess I will keep it based on the first definition unless the Forum bans it as did 21 states.

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    #145688

    Darth Brooks
    Participant

    Go ask your Father.  He will explain.  On second thought, it’s just a couple of us guys wasting time and being witty and clever in our own minds.  You should focus on content and leave the stupid stuff to us.

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    #145692

    Marlon Brando
    Participant

    My  late  ‘Father” has  passed  away  before some  15  years.I  ask  mercy  for  his  soul.But  as  you  are  one  of  the  respected God-Fathers of  this Forum I  ask  you  to  explain thses  stupid  stuff for  me  and  athers,thank  you. 

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    #145695

    Stevo
    Member

    Wow, I got sucked into this thread more then I wanted to.  But sense my shoes are already dirty, here goes.
     
    By saying I don’t have a passion for statistics doesn’t mean I don’t have a good working knowledge of them (just not strong).  While I value those who do, if they have put too many eggs in that basket, I often see them getting frustrated and leaving.
     
    I value the softer skills as well.

    The ability to ask the right questions
    How to lead and motivate a team
    How to influence without authority (or authori –tie for you south park fans)
    Knowing how much analysis is needed (fine line)
    Ability to make a decision timely (there’s saying that I’m fond of – “I’ll make a decision and if it’s wrong, I’ll make another one.”)
    How to teach (mentor) in a way that the GB will understand
     
    I believe in two main philosophies:
    ·         Questions lead and tools follow.
    ·         Practical – Graphical – then Analytical ( I see too many people wanting to flex their statistical muscles when it usually is not needed)
     
    Stevo

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    #145714

    Marlon Brando
    Participant

    Great  Answe .Thank  You

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    #145737

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    Stevo,
    I read your post about an hour ago, liked it a lot but saw no reason to get caught up in this string beyond my restatement of Darth’s original/first response.
    Putting aside the inordinate amout of crap you give me about the length of my posts, I like your response a great deal. It hits home at a real issue for Six Sigma in general. Producing results from a project goes far beyond the stats. I am not a big fan of the the fluff but I am a fan of the things it takes to drive a successful project to closure and perfect statistics will not get you there. I liked your list(s). The statistics are safe – follow formulas, say things like “fail to reject” so you never have to commit totally to a decision. When you fail to reject your behavior is as if you accepted so what is the point with the weasle wording? When you mix the people and the business environment into the equation all that means squat. You get measured on the results and there isn’t a “C” level person around that will send you to statistical jail because you violated some assumption or didn’t prove stability before you fixed the problem.
    Nice post.
    Regards

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    #145742

    Simon W
    Member

    Dear Brit,
    You are something!
    So my opinion is, M/BB firstly, are politicians. You have to hit your boss and you must ensure they are not defeated!
    Haha! very hard very hard…
    Anyone have encourage please have a try.hahahaha.
    Good luck,
    Simon W

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    #145745

    Marlon Brando
    Participant

    Hit  your  boss  and  get  fired  ,then  what?become  a  free-lancer?

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    #145749

    Simon W
    Member

    Hi man,
    Let me give you more politics in deployment of SS.

    Give a pep talk to your boss let him shape up._haha, very easy,right
    Then when you clamp down, he will ask you to think in his shoes and try to find some reason to calm you down let you know he is boss._haha, that’s not the hardest time for you and you may try your best to get around to it, so
    Finally, you say the 3 word (blablabla) and get a pink slip plus 3 word (lablablab)._Of course it’s up to you but mostly you will not let it ride and thus get this…
    You will not pull a few strings if you are not a politician._Then you will…haha, up to u.haha.
    So you know, a politician means you may tickle your boss and don’t let his angry at you,that’s most important for the brand of you as well as your company.
    Normally, I will be not a Freelancer but will be a Professor! Surprised?
    Is that cool?:-)
    hahahaha.
    Try your best to be a politician then…
    Thanks and best regards,
    Simon W
     

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    #145753

    The Beard
    Member

    Hi, We internally train Black Belts and it has been very successful. Trainees have included Senior Mgt, HR, Manufacturing and Process Engineers. 4 Weeks of training, 4 test papers, teachbacks, case studies and simulations. This has really helped the mgt and co. take ownership and not see it as a parachuted in idea by consultants. Initial training for MBB was done offsite.

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    #145755

    Marlon Brando
    Participant

    Agree fully  with  you.I  hate  those  pretenders  who  call  themselves CEO OR  Boss  or  what  so  ever .So  that  why  I’m  free-lancer  and  I  will continue  like  that  until  the  end  of  my  life.Ofcourse  I’m  not  earning  enough  amount  of  money  but  I’m  happy  and  satisfied and  enjoy  the  peace of  mind.I  have  never liked  to  flatter those Idiots ,who know  only  the  “language  of  money”,oriented  Politically to  manibulate  and  lie most  of  the  time.I  will  never  try  to  be  a  “politician” ,have  no  talent  for  that but  thank  you  for  the  free  leasons.Regards

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    #145758

    Marlon Brando
    Participant

    Deming said:
    That Knowledge only  comes  in  from  outside and  only  by invitation?? 

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    #145784

    Simon W
    Member

    Wow, admire you! You have a good life.
    I learn a lot from you my brother.
    Best wishes,
    SW
     

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    #145828

    Stevo
    Member

    Thanks Mike.
    Stevo
    BTW – If you’re complementing me or agreeing with me, your posts can not be long enough.

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