Laid off – want to get certified BB…what to do…
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Rj.
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- February 11, 2010 at 4:31 pm #53257
Pretty simple question. I am a certified GB (several years ago) and have been utilizing the
SS tools ever since. My goal for 2010 was to get certified as a BB.
However, last week I got laid off (our entire department). So…now
I have a lot of time on my hangs while I search for a job. Since I won’t be able to do a “real world” project, what would be the
best avenue to earn a certification? I have been looking at the
Villanova program because they allow you to do a simulated
project. My plan would be to complete a program like this, then go back at
get re-certified through ASQ once I have a job again and can
complete a “real world” project.Your thoughts?0February 11, 2010 at 4:45 pm #189311
dlw bpexParticipant@dlw-bpexInclude @dlw-bpex in your post and this person will
be notified via email.Jason,
Depending upon your specific industry and area of expertise, an
alternative could be to volunteer your talents to a non-profit (or for-
profit, for that matter). For example, healthcare organizations can be
very receptive.
If they involve you in an improvement project, that can satisfy your
need while exposing you to potentially valuable contacts, advisory
board members, prospective colleagues, etc.
Best of luck.
David0February 11, 2010 at 4:46 pm #189312Post your email address and you will likely get some good input. Try to play this out in the forum and it will immediately detriorate into a slugfest. Too many vested interests and self-appointed watchdogs.
0February 11, 2010 at 5:11 pm #189316Any info you guys could share would be [email protected],
Jason0February 11, 2010 at 5:13 pm #189317Engineering/Manufacturing…Great suggestion! I guess I hadn’t really thought about that angle.
0February 11, 2010 at 5:17 pm #189318Yes, this idea is great in theory – but difficult to pull off. Doing a project involves, typically, a significant amount of proprietary information. Even when you volunteer to conduct the project for no charge many will not open their treasure chests. Non-profits might be more open however you likely will need to be very close to someone in the organization even for that to work.
0February 11, 2010 at 5:37 pm #189319
dlw bpexParticipant@dlw-bpexInclude @dlw-bpex in your post and this person will
be notified via email.It isn’t just theory. I did it several years ago. Yes, of course
confidentiality can be an issue. Clearance, signing a NDA, and even
security restrictions may apply, depending upon the size and
sophistication of the organization.
I will admit, though, that knowing someone on the inside and having
an established connection will greatly improve the odds. But there’s
nothing new about that, eh?
David0February 12, 2010 at 1:53 am #189330If you are a certified GB with limited project experience (< 3 GB projects lets say) and havent worked a project in some time (not just the using the skills, but have a properly gated project effort under your belt in the last 12 months) then I would say hiring in somewhere as an LSS asset will be difficult. If I looked at your resume with the BB training and no project, I would not consider you to be a fully functional BB ready to hit the ground running.
Better to get your foot in the door with a company that values the LSS skill set and then look to get BB certified in-house with the proper coaching/mentoring infrastructure in place.
You can do it your way, but I just don’t think you’ll get the ROI on your investment. Best of luck.
Just one guys opinion. Take several data points.0February 12, 2010 at 2:43 am #189331Pretty simple (rhetorical) question: why in the world should there be a BB “certification” that does not require completing a “real world” project. As quality professionals, we can, and should, do better. Otherwise, hard-working, well-intentioned individuals like Jason will continue to seek certifications (at significant personal expense) only to find that “real world” capability and a portfolio of experience is all that matters. It’s shameful; and simply leads to sham operators taking advantage. O.K. – I’ll get off the soap box now. Who’s next?
0February 12, 2010 at 3:20 am #189332Pal, there’s a great deal of merit to your position relative to completing a project. That is, one should demonstrate the ability to apply the knowledge.
However, the challenge comes in moving from concept to application. Please define what is acceptable – one project or more, how many tools, DOE or not, how is the “project” validated (who do you trust to evaluate it?), what are all the metrics for acceptability or not, who administers it, how do you get past proprietary information, etc.
The concept is great. Now how do you put such a thing into practice – and make it robust, consistent, validated….?0February 12, 2010 at 4:11 am #189333Valid point, but the same point could be made about a college
degree or an education in general for that matter. You sit in a
classroom for years discussing the theoretical and then you
graduate having never (or rarely) applied your knowledge to a real
world application. You go out into the job force, apply for a job as
an engineer (for example). Are you tried and tested? No. But you
are still a degreed engineer. Only time and experience will teach
you the lessons that could never be taught in the classroom.Whether you cover the course material on your own time, or while
at work, at some point you will finish the course and have zero
applied experience with your new found/learned talents.I guess what I am trying to say is that I would rather be a “rookie”,
“noob” or “inexperienced” BB ready for my first real world test, than
not try to move forward at all. You can’t jump for inexperience to
experienced, without passing through the gray area in the middle.0February 12, 2010 at 1:37 pm #189340I think the question is simpler: Which approach will provide me the training and experience I need to be taken seriously by employers (as evidenced via job offers, higher salaries, etc).
The industry is full of “certified” belts that can’t do the job due to limited project experience and little or no coaching/mentoring along the way….you run the risk of paying out-of-pocket just to put yourself in that category. I don’t think you’ll find an active market for a BB with no project or coaching experience. Best of luck!0February 12, 2010 at 2:50 pm #189342So john, how about suggesting a solution?
Apparently it’s your belief that Jason should attend an open enrollment BB class with a known training firm, cost around $5000 +/-, then find multiple projects to conduct with non-profits or consenting companies. This will take, what, 14 to 20 months. Then he’ll be a competent BB and can get a good job. Is this what you’re suggesting? Is this really the path you believe he should take?0February 12, 2010 at 3:54 pm #189343It might help if you read my earlier post.
0February 12, 2010 at 4:13 pm #189344Jason,
1st off, I’m so sorry that you and your dept lost your jobs…It is
unimaginable…In your case, I would go ahead and pursue through a 3rd party
Vendor, by then go seek out a local town, city, or county gov’t and
offer to help them with a project in exchange for experience. I’d
take it one step further and approach a local church, or synagogue
and do the same. They’ll get improvements, you’ll get experience
and some good networking opportunities.0February 12, 2010 at 4:30 pm #189345Agreed hb. That is the only practical, time-sensitive solution to being unemployed. Now is not the time to be prissy; deficiencies can be corrected later – once you’re eating again.
0February 12, 2010 at 6:14 pm #189346I don’t think the education analogy holds here. When you get a bachelor’s degree, you’re expected to be a newbie – you know the basics of your field, but have no experience or advanced knowledge. A certification should indicate expertise, not beginner-level knowledge. Well-regarded certifications require proof of experience (years in position and/or documented accomplishments) as well as a difficult exam to prove you know more than the basics. Unfortunately, certification is too often taken to mean mini-degree, as demonstrated by the influx of “paper certs” into the Six Sigma and IT fields.Several long-experienced BBs and MBBs on this forum have stated that certification means nothing to them when considering job applicants; experience is the ONLY important factor. Getting a certification with no project will not impress a hiring manager, so you risk wasting thousands of dollars for nothing. Perhaps you should save your money on a certification and just learn the basics yourself (there are lots of books out there that cover the basics of DMAIC, DOE, and useful statistical tools). If you’re going to approach churches/small businesses/non-profits, I doubt they’ll care if you’re certified – either they’ll want your help or they won’t. Just a thought.
0February 12, 2010 at 7:33 pm #189349You make a number of good points yet I would challenge you on “certification”. We have no standard in the LSS industry so your references to that issue are simply your interpretation of what “certification” should mean. This is one of our major deficiencies – each person has their own definition. About time we agreed and standardized – don’t you think?
0February 12, 2010 at 10:45 pm #189355Not really. I have seen little correlation between training/certification programs and the ability to execute projects in an operational environment. Give me someone with strong project experience and a history of getting things done. All else is secondary, including someone’s score on a certification exam.
0February 12, 2010 at 11:33 pm #189357John, aren’t you glad that approach isn’t taken with dentists, attorneys, accountants, appraisers, real estate agents, project managers, commercial property managers and the hundreds of other professions? Why should we not make an effort to professionalize our industry?
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