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Laid off – want to get certified BB…what to do…

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  • February 11, 2010 at 4:31 pm #53257

    Baker
    ★★★★★★★★★★
    Participant

    Pretty simple question. I am a certified GB (several years ago) and have been utilizing the
    SS tools ever since. My goal for 2010 was to get certified as a BB.
    However, last week I got laid off (our entire department). So…now
    I have a lot of time on my hangs while I search for a job. Since I won’t be able to do a “real world” project, what would be the
    best avenue to earn a certification? I have been looking at the
    Villanova program because they allow you to do a simulated
    project. My plan would be to complete a program like this, then go back at
    get re-certified through ASQ once I have a job again and can
    complete a “real world” project.Your thoughts?

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    February 11, 2010 at 4:45 pm #189311

    dlw bpex
    ★★★★★★★★★★
    Participant

    Jason,
    Depending upon your specific industry and area of expertise, an
    alternative could be to volunteer your talents to a non-profit (or for-
    profit, for that matter). For example, healthcare organizations can be
    very receptive.
    If they involve you in an improvement project, that can satisfy your
    need while exposing you to potentially valuable contacts, advisory
    board members, prospective colleagues, etc.
    Best of luck.
    David

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    February 11, 2010 at 4:46 pm #189312

    Rj
    ★★★★★★★★★★
    Member

    Post your email address and you will likely get some good input. Try to play this out in the forum and it will immediately detriorate into a slugfest. Too many vested interests and self-appointed watchdogs.

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    February 11, 2010 at 5:11 pm #189316

    Baker
    ★★★★★★★★★★
    Participant

    Any info you guys could share would be [email protected],
    Jason

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    February 11, 2010 at 5:13 pm #189317

    Baker
    ★★★★★★★★★★
    Participant

    Engineering/Manufacturing…Great suggestion! I guess I hadn’t really thought about that angle.

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    February 11, 2010 at 5:17 pm #189318

    Rj
    ★★★★★★★★★★
    Member

    Yes, this idea is great in theory – but difficult to pull off. Doing a project involves, typically, a significant amount of proprietary information. Even when you volunteer to conduct the project for no charge many will not open their treasure chests. Non-profits might be more open however you likely will need to be very close to someone in the organization even for that to work.

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    February 11, 2010 at 5:37 pm #189319

    dlw bpex
    ★★★★★★★★★★
    Participant

    It isn’t just theory. I did it several years ago. Yes, of course
    confidentiality can be an issue. Clearance, signing a NDA, and even
    security restrictions may apply, depending upon the size and
    sophistication of the organization.
    I will admit, though, that knowing someone on the inside and having
    an established connection will greatly improve the odds. But there’s
    nothing new about that, eh?
    David

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    February 12, 2010 at 1:53 am #189330

    Tierradentro
    ★★★★★★★★★★
    Participant

    If you are a certified GB with limited project experience (< 3 GB projects lets say) and havent worked a project in some time (not just the using the skills, but have a properly gated project effort under your belt in the last 12 months) then I would say hiring in somewhere as an LSS asset will be difficult.  If I looked at your resume with the BB training and no project, I would not consider you to be a  fully functional BB ready to hit the ground running.
    Better to get your foot in the door with a company that values the LSS skill set and then look to get BB certified in-house with the proper coaching/mentoring infrastructure in place.
    You can do it your way, but I just don’t think you’ll get the ROI on your investment.  Best of luck.
    Just one guys opinion. Take several data points.

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    February 12, 2010 at 2:43 am #189331

    Pal
    ★★★★★★★★★★
    Participant

    Pretty simple (rhetorical) question: why in the world should there be a BB “certification” that does not require completing a “real world” project. As quality professionals, we can, and should, do better. Otherwise, hard-working, well-intentioned individuals like Jason will continue to seek certifications (at significant personal expense) only to find that “real world” capability and a portfolio of experience is all that matters. It’s shameful; and simply leads to sham operators taking advantage. O.K. – I’ll get off the soap box now. Who’s next?

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    February 12, 2010 at 3:20 am #189332

    Rj
    ★★★★★★★★★★
    Member

    Pal, there’s a great deal of merit to your position relative to completing a project. That is, one should demonstrate the ability to apply the knowledge.
    However, the challenge comes in moving from concept to application. Please define what is acceptable – one project or more, how many tools, DOE or not, how is the “project” validated (who do you trust to evaluate it?), what are all the metrics for acceptability or not, who administers it, how do you get past proprietary information, etc.
    The concept is great. Now how do you put such a thing into practice – and make it robust, consistent, validated….?

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    February 12, 2010 at 4:11 am #189333

    Baker
    ★★★★★★★★★★
    Participant

    Valid point, but the same point could be made about a college
    degree or an education in general for that matter. You sit in a
    classroom for years discussing the theoretical and then you
    graduate having never (or rarely) applied your knowledge to a real
    world application. You go out into the job force, apply for a job as
    an engineer (for example). Are you tried and tested? No. But you
    are still a degreed engineer. Only time and experience will teach
    you the lessons that could never be taught in the classroom.Whether you cover the course material on your own time, or while
    at work, at some point you will finish the course and have zero
    applied experience with your new found/learned talents.I guess what I am trying to say is that I would rather be a “rookie”,
    “noob” or “inexperienced” BB ready for my first real world test, than
    not try to move forward at all. You can’t jump for inexperience to
    experienced, without passing through the gray area in the middle.

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    February 12, 2010 at 1:37 pm #189340

    Tierradentro
    ★★★★★★★★★★
    Participant

    I think the question is simpler:  Which approach will provide me the training and experience I need to be taken seriously by employers (as evidenced via job offers, higher salaries, etc). 
    The industry is full of “certified” belts that can’t do the job due to limited project experience and little or no coaching/mentoring along the way….you run the risk of paying out-of-pocket just to put yourself in that category.  I don’t think you’ll find an active market for a BB with no project or coaching experience.   Best of luck!

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    February 12, 2010 at 2:50 pm #189342

    Rj
    ★★★★★★★★★★
    Member

    So john, how about suggesting a solution?
    Apparently it’s your belief that Jason should attend an open enrollment BB class with a known training firm, cost around $5000 +/-, then find multiple projects to conduct with non-profits or consenting companies. This will take, what, 14 to 20 months. Then he’ll be a competent BB and can get a good job. Is this what you’re suggesting? Is this really the path you believe he should take?

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    February 12, 2010 at 3:54 pm #189343

    Tierradentro
    ★★★★★★★★★★
    Participant

    It might help if you read my earlier post. 

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    February 12, 2010 at 4:13 pm #189344

    GB
    ★★★★★★★★★★
    Participant

    Jason,
    1st off, I’m so sorry that you and your dept lost your jobs…It is
    unimaginable…In your case, I would go ahead and pursue through a 3rd party
    Vendor, by then go seek out a local town, city, or county gov’t and
    offer to help them with a project in exchange for experience. I’d
    take it one step further and approach a local church, or synagogue
    and do the same. They’ll get improvements, you’ll get experience
    and some good networking opportunities.

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    February 12, 2010 at 4:30 pm #189345

    Rj
    ★★★★★★★★★★
    Member

    Agreed hb. That is the only practical, time-sensitive solution to being unemployed. Now is not the time to be prissy; deficiencies can be corrected later – once you’re eating again.

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    February 12, 2010 at 6:14 pm #189346

    Reade
    ★★★★★★★★★★
    Participant

    I don’t think the education analogy holds here. When you get a bachelor’s degree, you’re expected to be a newbie – you know the basics of your field, but have no experience or advanced knowledge. A certification should indicate expertise, not beginner-level knowledge. Well-regarded certifications require proof of experience (years in position and/or documented accomplishments) as well as a difficult exam to prove you know more than the basics. Unfortunately, certification is too often taken to mean mini-degree, as demonstrated by the influx of “paper certs” into the Six Sigma and IT fields.Several long-experienced BBs and MBBs on this forum have stated that certification means nothing to them when considering job applicants; experience is the ONLY important factor. Getting a certification with no project will not impress a hiring manager, so you risk wasting thousands of dollars for nothing. Perhaps you should save your money on a certification and just learn the basics yourself (there are lots of books out there that cover the basics of DMAIC, DOE, and useful statistical tools). If you’re going to approach churches/small businesses/non-profits, I doubt they’ll care if you’re certified – either they’ll want your help or they won’t. Just a thought.

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    February 12, 2010 at 7:33 pm #189349

    Rj
    ★★★★★★★★★★
    Member

    You make a number of good points yet I would challenge you on “certification”. We have no standard in the LSS industry so your references to that issue are simply your interpretation of what “certification” should mean. This is one of our major deficiencies – each person has their own definition. About time we agreed and standardized – don’t you think?

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    February 12, 2010 at 10:45 pm #189355

    Tierradentro
    ★★★★★★★★★★
    Participant

    Not really.  I have seen little correlation between training/certification programs and the ability to execute projects in an operational environment.  Give me someone with strong project experience and a history of getting things done.  All else is secondary, including someone’s score on a certification exam.  

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    February 12, 2010 at 11:33 pm #189357

    Rj
    ★★★★★★★★★★
    Member

    John, aren’t you glad that approach isn’t taken with dentists, attorneys, accountants, appraisers, real estate agents, project managers, commercial property managers and the hundreds of other professions? Why should we not make an effort to professionalize our industry?

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