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jtomac01.
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October 15, 2006 at 8:29 pm #44898
Boogaloo StooParticipant@Boogaloo-StooInclude @Boogaloo-Stoo in your post and this person will
be notified via email.Hello all,
I am a newly qualified (not yet certified) Green Belt working for Network Rail (we provide the rail network for the train operators to run their trains on) in the UK .
I have no prior experience of Six Sigma or other methodologies and wonder if anyone would enlighten me as to the differences between Six Sigma and Lean Six Sigma please? I understand lean uses tools like 5S’s but my training covered this without reference to Lean.
Any information would be gratefully received.
Thanks
Boogaloo Stoo0October 15, 2006 at 10:19 pm #144815
Marlon BrandoParticipant@Marlon-BrandoInclude @Marlon-Brando in your post and this person will
be notified via email.SS detects variation (mainly),while Lean-SS detects waste (7 types of waste).SS is a process improvement methodology,using the DMAIC concept as a project management style.Lean is focusing mainly on flexibility,speed & VA steps,utilizing some Kaizen concepts such as 5Ss,Kaizen Blits,TPM….etc.The best solution is to apply Lean-SS?Good Luck
0October 15, 2006 at 10:27 pm #144817
Boogaloo StooParticipant@Boogaloo-StooInclude @Boogaloo-Stoo in your post and this person will
be notified via email.Thanks Marlon,
That leads me to believe that I’ve been taught Lean-SS under the SS banner.
BS
0October 16, 2006 at 12:26 am #144823Lean surface up problem
SS kill the problem0October 16, 2006 at 5:42 am #144826
Marlon BrandoParticipant@Marlon-BrandoInclude @Marlon-Brando in your post and this person will
be notified via email.Brief ,wise & impressive
0October 16, 2006 at 9:00 am #144846
Orang_UtanParticipant@Orang_UtanInclude @Orang_Utan in your post and this person will
be notified via email.My view is lean exposes weakest link in the supply chain and Six Sigma fixs those imperfect quality link.
0October 16, 2006 at 2:36 pm #144886
Dr. Mikel HarryMember@Mikel-HarryInclude @Mikel-Harry in your post and this person will
be notified via email.LEAN focuses on waste while Six Sigma on variation. It would be better to minimize the waste first before addressing the variation. If you want to attack both you can establish Lean Six Sigma.
0October 16, 2006 at 3:17 pm #144892
Orang_UtanParticipant@Orang_UtanInclude @Orang_Utan in your post and this person will
be notified via email.Variation covers both time and process variation.Cycle time fluctuation isn’t a time variation? Process variation is not a waste?According to your vague definition, I can use lean to solve process variation and six sigma to solve cycle time fluctuation.
0October 16, 2006 at 3:33 pm #144896Although it may not be the intended use – you can. That is one reason why the two tools seem to work so well together – in my opinion.
0October 16, 2006 at 4:38 pm #144900
Orang_UtanParticipant@Orang_UtanInclude @Orang_Utan in your post and this person will
be notified via email.I can knock a nail into a plain wood with my shoe heel. It’s a right tool I use?
0October 16, 2006 at 5:31 pm #144901Is that the best tool you have available?
0October 16, 2006 at 10:38 pm #144929
jtomac01Participant@jtomac01Include @jtomac01 in your post and this person will
be notified via email.Isn’t variation caused by some form of waste?
0October 16, 2006 at 10:38 pm #144930
jtomac01Participant@jtomac01Include @jtomac01 in your post and this person will
be notified via email.Isn’t variation caused by some form of waste?
0October 17, 2006 at 5:53 am #144941
Marlon BrandoParticipant@Marlon-BrandoInclude @Marlon-Brando in your post and this person will
be notified via email.No .Waste is caused mainly by NVA that can be eliminated through Lean.Variation is caused mainly by lack QC,it can be diagnosed through high (fluctuated) SD.SS can deal with this problem.
0October 17, 2006 at 8:23 am #144955
Mike CarnellParticipant@Mike-CarnellInclude @Mike-Carnell in your post and this person will
be notified via email.Boogaloo,
There isn’t any clear cut dividing line between the Lean and Six Sigma so you can say “I’m going to use Lean for this and Six Sigma for this.” It would be a complete waste of time. Each has tools that do certain things. When you understand the purpose of the tool you match it with the problem and use what makes sense.
Believing that Six Sigma is variation reduction only is a huge mistake. That means we need some other methodology to shift a mean? By actual definition (Juran 1964: “Managerial Breakthrough”) using his diagram Breakthrough i.e. is dynamic change, shows it as a mean shift.
I am not sure how people can even begin to draw a line between the two. TPS has 4 basic steps Workplace Organization>Standardized Work>Continuous Improvement>Kanban/JIT. The first two steps take out people induced noise but in Continuous Improvement it combines incremental and breakthrough improvement. There is nothing new about the tools working in conjunction with each other.
Just my opinion.
Good luck0October 17, 2006 at 8:35 am #144959Mike
I totally agree with you.
Monk0October 17, 2006 at 1:38 pm #144985You make a point, howeer. Say I have a number of variables dealing with throughput, not quality, per se. I want to see the relationship between the tools, maybe even predict future events. ANOVA, regression, etc. might be a better avenue to take to understand how steps relate, rather than moving straight to a waste reduction. It would be using a quality tool to deal with a flow problem.
All I’m getting at it that we shouldn’t limit ourselves to the tools we use. Yes we should use the right tool, but it depends on the specific issue we are dealing with.
By the way, if I need to get the nail in the wood, I would rather my employees use a shoe than leave the nail out. Results matter0October 17, 2006 at 3:12 pm #144993
jtomac01Participant@jtomac01Include @jtomac01 in your post and this person will
be notified via email.Mike,
For the TPS model, you should add an additional step, jidoka or fool proofing would be the other pillar. Without it you end up with the JIT craze from the 80’s & 90’s and the TPS roof will fall on itself.
JWDT0October 17, 2006 at 8:41 pm #145006
Mike CarnellParticipant@Mike-CarnellInclude @Mike-Carnell in your post and this person will
be notified via email.JWDT,
We have mistakeproofing (politically correct for foolproofing) as part of CI. There is a down side to Mistakeproofing in that the operators can become dependant on it so it isn’t necessarily my first choice.
Regards0October 17, 2006 at 8:42 pm #145007
Mike CarnellParticipant@Mike-CarnellInclude @Mike-Carnell in your post and this person will
be notified via email.Thank you.
0October 17, 2006 at 11:58 pm #145019
leaningParticipant@leaningInclude @leaning in your post and this person will
be notified via email.So why hasn’t it exposed you ?
We know you are beyond repair …0October 18, 2006 at 10:26 am #145048
Orang_UtanParticipant@Orang_UtanInclude @Orang_Utan in your post and this person will
be notified via email.Expose a free green belt and toolkit scam is already a great service to isigma.com community.
0October 18, 2006 at 3:59 pm #145063Orang_Utan,
According to this guy – http://www.lean-service.com/0-1.asp
Six Sigma guys are a buch of ‘tool heads.’ His background is psychology and he has a ‘I did the tour’ knowledge f the the Toyota Production System, although he kind of claims to have studied under Deming and Tai-chi Ono.
My impression is he’s styled himself on Deming and even uses sound bites like “throw it in the trash,’ or ‘bannish all targets!’
I guess he doesn’t realise Shewhart was the real genious behind Deming’s work, and Deming even managed to screw some of it up, such as by changing assingnable to special ,and systemmatic (in the system) to common.
So if you hear Parceval shouting ‘for whom does the Grail serve’ outside a Grail Castle, you know who it is …
Cheers,
Andy0October 18, 2006 at 5:49 pm #145076
Orang_UtanParticipant@Orang_UtanInclude @Orang_Utan in your post and this person will
be notified via email.It’s not a strange happening if I see more consultants call themselves as sensei. I just hope they understand the real meaning of sensei. :-(
0October 18, 2006 at 7:47 pm #145090
Marlon BrandoParticipant@Marlon-BrandoInclude @Marlon-Brando in your post and this person will
be notified via email.Please explain it /Is it a Japanese word?
0October 18, 2006 at 9:51 pm #145108Marlon,
My understanding is Sensei means ‘teacher’ or ‘mentor’ – not ‘expert’ as claimed by these guys.
When I pointed out replacing a target with a goal is just semantics, they cancelled my hotel booking, and I had to miss the next day’s seminar :-)
Andy0October 18, 2006 at 10:11 pm #145111
jtomac01Participant@jtomac01Include @jtomac01 in your post and this person will
be notified via email.With the TBM & Shingijutsu consultants I have worked with, Sensei would be defined as “teacher” and or “mentor”. They would also say it is implied that the Sensei is the “master” or “expert” in the methodology / application of the TPS system.
0October 18, 2006 at 10:30 pm #145113
Marlon BrandoParticipant@Marlon-BrandoInclude @Marlon-Brando in your post and this person will
be notified via email.Thank You.Is it similar to MBB or what?
0October 19, 2006 at 2:41 am #145122
jtomac01Participant@jtomac01Include @jtomac01 in your post and this person will
be notified via email.Analagous, assuming the MBB has risen through the ranks and has learned all the individual tools & applications.
Most sensei’s started out as shopfloor engineers & worked their way up to Chief Engineer or equivalent (over the course of a career). Japanese culture has a lot to do with this. A lot of them understand every facet of an operation (e.g. all different forms of casting – in detail) from the work content through the engineering to the finances and the marketing of the product.0October 19, 2006 at 3:44 am #145123Perhaps their implication is wrong – after all Orang_Utan also noticed the obvious deficiency …
0October 19, 2006 at 4:45 am #145125Andy,
If Shewart is a genius as you say, why don’t all these SS idiots read his work ?
When will people realise that control limits are not probability limits ?
0October 19, 2006 at 5:31 am #145127
Six Sigma ShooterMember@Six-Sigma-ShooterInclude @Six-Sigma-Shooter in your post and this person will
be notified via email.Who has time to actually learn the history of this stuff? I mean, all you really need is eight days in a classroom and then take a test and. . . . presto chango, you’re a black belt! Nothing could be easier.
As for the issue of control limits not equaling probabilitiy limits . . Lots of luck. Been there, tried that. People can’t seem to be able to get beyond the 68/95/99 stuff. I believe Shewhart did say that probablities were “associated” with control limits, but they had nothing to do with why he selected +/- 3. It was an economical decision.0October 19, 2006 at 6:41 am #145135
Marlon BrandoParticipant@Marlon-BrandoInclude @Marlon-Brando in your post and this person will
be notified via email.Because they are Idiots?
0October 19, 2006 at 6:49 am #145138Bill,
What I meant was Shewhart was the genius behind Deming. After all, when management became uncomfortable with the idea that management is responsible for the ‘system,’ Deming changed ‘systematic cause’ to common to a number of processes.
To be honest, I could probably be described as a layman (idiotes) these days, so you’ll have to calrify your point for me. I’ve never regarded Control Limits as probability limits, but that is not in my favour because I’ve never given it much thought. I’ve always regarded CLs as ‘confidence intervals.’
Are confidence intervals the same as probability limits – I don’t know; I’m not familiar with the concept of a probability limit :-)
Cheers,
Andy0October 19, 2006 at 6:56 am #145139Marlon,
Coming back to your original question, I’ve just thought of a way to describe the ‘attitude’ of a sensei. Not that I’m a sensei of course – I’m only a student.
The attitude is encapsulated by the following well-known saying:
“Teach correct (Toyota principles) and let them govern themselves.”
By way of comparison, the idea of an expert in the West is one who knows better … even though he can’t run the process, take responsbility for meeting customer demand, or in some cases replace a light bulb.
Cheers,
Andy0October 19, 2006 at 7:37 am #145140Bravo !! Economic limits.
Perhaps you can explain it to the other SS ignoramuses here … if they understood the basics, there would be no 1.5 sigma shift, no 3.4 DPMO, no hypothesis tests and all the other SS rubbish.
0October 19, 2006 at 7:45 am #145141
Six Sigma ShooterMember@Six-Sigma-ShooterInclude @Six-Sigma-Shooter in your post and this person will
be notified via email.That’s what I mean by “been there, tried that.” Had a long back and forth with Gabriel several years back (kinda miss him – what ever happened to him?). I came to realize it is kind of like the Marilyn Voss Savant three doors exercise: some people get it, most don’t – even the “learned” among us.
0October 19, 2006 at 7:52 am #145142Sorry there SS Shooter … I didn’t realise that you were one of the crowd who had woken up to how much rubbish is in SS !!!
Harry and Reigle probably don’t care much now … I can imagine they spend their days laughing at the foolishness and gullibility of the masses, while counting their millions …0October 19, 2006 at 8:03 am #145144
Six Sigma ShooterMember@Six-Sigma-ShooterInclude @Six-Sigma-Shooter in your post and this person will
be notified via email.I cut my teeth on Deming back in the early 80’s. I have found that “tools” and methods are fun . . . . some are even useful ;-) Without a foundation of profound knowledge and a well understood aim for the system, they are very dangerous.
0October 19, 2006 at 9:16 am #145152
Marlon BrandoParticipant@Marlon-BrandoInclude @Marlon-Brando in your post and this person will
be notified via email.Andy
Thanks for the explanation.Which “School” one do you prefer?Or suggest a mixture of both,please elaborate0October 19, 2006 at 10:10 am #145157Marlon,
To my mind there is only one school – working for a Japanese company, and actually doing it.
If you’re lucky to join a company during a start-up, or during a take over, you’ll learn Why as well as How.
Only then will you understand the importance of stopping production and taking immediate corrective action because this is the only way to assert pre-eminence of requirements over numbers.
Cheers,
Andy
0October 19, 2006 at 11:53 am #145162
Orang_UtanParticipant@Orang_UtanInclude @Orang_Utan in your post and this person will
be notified via email.Agree. A Japanese company I worked for gives line stop order to all first line operators and QA inspector. Amazing part is the plant MD/CEO has no authority to overide line-stop decisions until a short-term correction action(s) is in place and a long-term preventive action(s) is in futre action list. The line-stop is lifted only after internal customer is fully satisfied.UK people are so good to churn our all sorts of nonsense ISO and other standards in the past 50 years. A tangile gain for them is certification fees and consulting service charges.
0October 19, 2006 at 11:56 am #145163
Orang_UtanParticipant@Orang_UtanInclude @Orang_Utan in your post and this person will
be notified via email.Seems that UK company’s professional standard is damned low.
0October 19, 2006 at 12:09 pm #145165
Orang_UtanParticipant@Orang_UtanInclude @Orang_Utan in your post and this person will
be notified via email.In kanji, sensei is a honorable title for a respectable profession like teacher.Agree with you, sensei is someone with inside out in-depth knowledge and skill sets in their own field through decades of practising and learning.These consultants are considered outsiders to many fields, but calling themselves as sensei is insulting to “sensei” real meaning.
0October 19, 2006 at 12:13 pm #145166
Orang_UtanParticipant@Orang_UtanInclude @Orang_Utan in your post and this person will
be notified via email.Agree. A Japanese company I worked for gives line stop order to all first line operators and QA inspector.Amazing part is the plant MD/CEO has no authority to overide line-stop decisions until a short-term correction action(s) is in place and a long-term preventive action(s) is in futre action list. The line-stop order is lifted only after internal customer is fully satisfied.UK people are so good to churn our all sorts of nonsense ISO and other standards in the past 50 years. A tangible gain for them is certification fees and consulting service charges.
0October 19, 2006 at 12:21 pm #145168
Orang_UtanParticipant@Orang_UtanInclude @Orang_Utan in your post and this person will
be notified via email.When tools like ANOVA is owned solely by Six Sigma?I remember clearly that prior to six sigma term is coined, IE students have to learned SPC, hypothesis, etc. stuffs.
0October 19, 2006 at 12:26 pm #145169Orang_Utan,
Your perspective is correct as usual, but I’d go further. It’s mostly ‘Topsy-Turvy’ over here. I’m sure you’ll appreciate how anything taken to an extreme can produce the oppostite effect :-)
Cheers,
Andy0October 19, 2006 at 1:00 pm #145171I agree, there are only a few who deserve the title.
0October 19, 2006 at 2:08 pm #145174
Marlon BrandoParticipant@Marlon-BrandoInclude @Marlon-Brando in your post and this person will
be notified via email.I believe that you are one of them,but your Problem that you are not “Humble” enough to communicate with all types of persons.Your self-esteem is very-very High.dding to the list:mike Carnell,Darth ,Andy Urghart…..and some others .Mike Carnell and Andy Urghart are great consultants with Karisma and high sense of humanity,just my opinion.
0October 19, 2006 at 2:11 pm #145175
Marlon BrandoParticipant@Marlon-BrandoInclude @Marlon-Brando in your post and this person will
be notified via email.Please elaborate more……
0October 19, 2006 at 2:15 pm #145176
Marlon BrandoParticipant@Marlon-BrandoInclude @Marlon-Brando in your post and this person will
be notified via email.Nostaligia?
0October 19, 2006 at 2:29 pm #145183
Orang_UtanParticipant@Orang_UtanInclude @Orang_Utan in your post and this person will
be notified via email.Your personality does not make you a bad consultant. Sincerity, professionalism and your know-how are factors counted at the end of the day.
0October 19, 2006 at 2:42 pm #145192
Marlon BrandoParticipant@Marlon-BrandoInclude @Marlon-Brando in your post and this person will
be notified via email.Agree
0October 19, 2006 at 2:46 pm #145193And you are not one of them!
0October 19, 2006 at 3:00 pm #145195
Marlon BrandoParticipant@Marlon-BrandoInclude @Marlon-Brando in your post and this person will
be notified via email.NO.I’m still learning ?
0October 19, 2006 at 3:44 pm #145198
Six Sigma ShooterMember@Six-Sigma-ShooterInclude @Six-Sigma-Shooter in your post and this person will
be notified via email.Nostalgia? Hardly. Too much to look forward to, don’t want to waste time pining over the past. Looking back over the past to learn from it is not nostalgia in this case. . . I would call it more of a state of reflective pondering to gain insights into the future, resultant from the nature of significant emotional event avoidance reflex syndrome. “The future isn’t what it used to be anyway,” to quote a famous philosophizer (go get ’em, Yogi!).
No, I was just informing Bill that past efforts have been made to tell others that control limits at +/- 3 std dev were not selected by Walter Shewhart because of probabilities. The thread became a long back and forth debate, and all one need do is to read Shewhart and what he said about it.
Best regards0October 19, 2006 at 3:52 pm #145201Reigle didn’t get the millions – only Harry.
0October 19, 2006 at 4:00 pm #145202
Six Sigma ShooterMember@Six-Sigma-ShooterInclude @Six-Sigma-Shooter in your post and this person will
be notified via email.To find out more about the aim of a system and the System of Profound Knowledge, I suggest two books by Deming: 1) Out of the Crisis; and 2) The New Economics. Without these two critical elements of knowledge of one’s business, it is like a ship without a rudder being controlled by the guys in the galley. Incorrect information is garnered from improperly analyzed data, improper decisions are made, time and money are wasted, customers and jobs are lost . . . It’s not a pretty scene, but one that is repeated over and over again due to methods still taught in the prestigous business schools, and by consultants who focus on short term tools and methods without any long term thinking and analysis.
Deming used to say, “How could they know? There was no one to teach them.” I don’t think that’s true, now. There have been plenty of teachers. But, Deming would also say that knowledge only comes in from the outside and only by invitation. The teachers are here and ready, but the invitations to really learn are very few and far between. The drive for a short term, pain free fixes is still alive and well, unfortunately.0October 19, 2006 at 4:03 pm #145203
Six Sigma ShooterMember@Six-Sigma-ShooterInclude @Six-Sigma-Shooter in your post and this person will
be notified via email.BTW, whatever became of the latest and greatest innovation in Lean Six Sigma, the “Gold Belt?” Didn’t Mikel launch that about a year or two back? Haven’t heard anything about it since, thank goodness.
0October 19, 2006 at 6:32 pm #145215I personally don’t believe you can successfully implement Six Sigma Methodology without first applying the lean techniques.
During my training classes, I use the Titanic to explain the difference. For instance, I show icebergs below the water surface with the Titanic approaching. Lean comes in and lowers the water level (Basically cleans up and eliminates waste). Once the water is lowered, the icebergs can be seen. From there, Six Sigma comes in, attacks and eliminates the icebergs. Make sense?
0October 19, 2006 at 6:48 pm #145216Aubby,
That post just tops the level of ignorance that professed “trainers” have shown in regards to process improvement on this forum. It just leaves one speechless and breathless.0October 19, 2006 at 6:57 pm #145217
Orang_UtanParticipant@Orang_UtanInclude @Orang_Utan in your post and this person will
be notified via email.Already exposed a pseudo sensei in UK who is providing “free” green belt and toolkit. LOL
0October 19, 2006 at 7:37 pm #145226Boy that lowering the water level analogy is a new one – I first saw it in 1984 in a cycle time reduction class (before the term “Lean” was in popular use)
0October 19, 2006 at 8:06 pm #145227
Orang_UtanParticipant@Orang_UtanInclude @Orang_Utan in your post and this person will
be notified via email.A “World-class Performance” lecture conducted by Oliver Wight consultants at my ex-company premises in 1993 was using sea water level as inventory anology.I can scan and share a few pages of its training slides if someone requests for them.The lecture topic is TPS and TQM integration under a similiar today’s lean six sigma approach. In nutshell, Michael George is not the first consultant in mooting out lean six sigma idea.The funny thing is some “sensei” grade consultants in UK are so high about such old idea. :-)
0October 19, 2006 at 8:28 pm #145228Try drinking the sea water. The effect is a good analogy to six sigma.
0October 19, 2006 at 8:36 pm #145229
Orang_UtanParticipant@Orang_UtanInclude @Orang_Utan in your post and this person will
be notified via email.Japanese will teach you it’s better not drinking too much water. A good anology of over consumption in your troubled backyard.
0October 19, 2006 at 8:41 pm #145230Six sigma focusses more on quality than speed. Lean are better at improving process flow and speed. The both combined together is what makes Lean Six Sigma.
0October 19, 2006 at 8:42 pm #145231
Orang_UtanParticipant@Orang_UtanInclude @Orang_Utan in your post and this person will
be notified via email.This more than 13 years ago slide shall shutting off claim from those professed “sensei” in TBM and George group that lean six sigma is not their invention.
0October 19, 2006 at 9:27 pm #145234Orang utan,
You are violating copyright bu scanning/copying/pasting proprietary materials here…
Namaste and good luck0October 19, 2006 at 10:50 pm #145236
Marlon BrandoParticipant@Marlon-BrandoInclude @Marlon-Brando in your post and this person will
be notified via email.Excellent Idea :should open a new business and generate lot of money?
0October 19, 2006 at 10:52 pm #145237
Marlon BrandoParticipant@Marlon-BrandoInclude @Marlon-Brando in your post and this person will
be notified via email.They should read that
0October 19, 2006 at 10:57 pm #145238
Marlon BrandoParticipant@Marlon-BrandoInclude @Marlon-Brando in your post and this person will
be notified via email.Agree
0October 19, 2006 at 11:03 pm #145240
Marlon BrandoParticipant@Marlon-BrandoInclude @Marlon-Brando in your post and this person will
be notified via email.Very Impressive.Please indicate the relevant link (cartoon),thanks
0October 20, 2006 at 12:02 am #145243
Marlon BrandoParticipant@Marlon-BrandoInclude @Marlon-Brando in your post and this person will
be notified via email.Please show the relevant Link.Thanks
0October 20, 2006 at 1:50 am #145244Both focus mainly on BS
0October 20, 2006 at 3:46 am #145246
Orang_UtanParticipant@Orang_UtanInclude @Orang_Utan in your post and this person will
be notified via email.Obviously, you do not understand the copyrights law in the majority countries. Most copyrights law allows 5 to 10% duplication/photocopy work on any copyrighted materials for non-commercial or educational purpose. I also intentionally put a big cross on the slides to make them useless for commercial usage.
0October 20, 2006 at 4:01 am #145247
Orang_UtanParticipant@Orang_UtanInclude @Orang_Utan in your post and this person will
be notified via email.Mr. Michael Marx,
Please make sure your forum moderator knows what is copyrights law first before simply deleting my post again.
How a crossed useless slide is violating copyright? Somehow the slide also is mainly used as a proof to support an intellectual discussion.
0October 20, 2006 at 4:08 am #145248
Orang_UtanParticipant@Orang_UtanInclude @Orang_Utan in your post and this person will
be notified via email.I think my posting with a link was deleted by moderator. Already lodge a complaint with Michael Marx on his forum moderator.
0October 20, 2006 at 4:11 am #145249
Orang_UtanParticipant@Orang_UtanInclude @Orang_Utan in your post and this person will
be notified via email.Mr. Michael Marx,(see your company’s feedback mailbox also)Please make sure your forum moderator knows what is copyrights law first before simply deleting my post again.How a crossed useless slide is violating copyright? Somehow the slide also is mainly used as a proof to support an intellectual discussion.
0October 20, 2006 at 8:02 am #145251Orang_Utan,
As you know I greatly respect you and would not wish to contradict you, but I don’t see how this cartoon represents a Kanban.
It reminds me of a situation I encountered walking through the factory one day, all the Japanese guys started laughing and rolling around the aisle. When I asked what was so funny they pointed to a little sign which read Kanbam.
My friend looked at me and said:”How can they use something they don’t understand and can’t spell?
No I have no idea what Kanbam means, but to my mind this cartoon just indicated someone’s ignorance, as I’m sure you know what a Kanban is :-)
Cheers,
Andy0October 20, 2006 at 10:48 am #145254If you can’t understand copyright its no wonder you can’t understand quality.
0October 20, 2006 at 12:15 pm #145259
Orang_UtanParticipant@Orang_UtanInclude @Orang_Utan in your post and this person will
be notified via email.The consultants were HP retirees with hands-on experience in TPS. HP is among the first American company looking at TPS in early 80s. The consultant did not say kanban is a physical card hanging in the plant. The message is inventory is a horrible waste which can be reduced with JIT system.
Just be alerted not all Japanese are “sensei” in JIT like their counterparts in Toyota.
0October 20, 2006 at 12:24 pm #145260
Orang_UtanParticipant@Orang_UtanInclude @Orang_Utan in your post and this person will
be notified via email.Of course I do not understand quality as per UK ISO9000 standard from day one. LOL
0October 20, 2006 at 1:47 pm #145262Orang_Utan,
Do you still have my email address? I’ve lost yours as I’ve had several PC crashes and not enough nounce to us a memory stick!
I have something that might interest you – in exchange for a good satay sauce recipe :-)
Cheers,
Andy0October 20, 2006 at 3:16 pm #145271
Just a guyParticipant@Just-a-guyInclude @Just-a-guy in your post and this person will
be notified via email.God, save same of this souls!
Let me say something here! I’m so sad, i can allmost cry…
From my ignorance let me tell to all of you “iluminated” MY TOOL!
Some of you just seem to me like young football coachs, “Should i use two left wings or two left defenders?”.
Lean an Six Sigma are great! If combined great+great! (some think so)
From my point of view there are only 3 kinds of problems.
1- The problem which i allready know the solution (or at least i think so). Here i use JDI methodology.
2- The problem(waste) i allready identify, may know the solution or not. Here i use Lean.
3- The problem which i don’t know the solution or i can’t explain. Here i use Six Sigma.
So far, with this form, i had my results…who can tell me i’m wrong and explain…
Just a guy,0October 20, 2006 at 3:34 pm #145275Glad to see that you’re so sad that you could cry. Because a century ago someone said that the world is so sad, it doesn’t even cry any more … I am glad to see that it is improving (with the help of Six Sigma that would be). And I am also glad that your world is simple: 2 + 2 = 4, and that is a simple truth.
0October 20, 2006 at 3:39 pm #145278Not saying that they are owned by six sigma. Just saying they are more commonly used in a six sigma environment than in a lean environment, in most cases.
And yes, as an IE, I did learn those tools prior to six sigma.0October 20, 2006 at 3:49 pm #145280
Just a guyParticipant@Just-a-guyInclude @Just-a-guy in your post and this person will
be notified via email.Thank’s!
0October 20, 2006 at 7:49 pm #145307
Marlon BrandoParticipant@Marlon-BrandoInclude @Marlon-Brando in your post and this person will
be notified via email.This new century should face more wares and troubles.So I’m still sad .Logical-wise 2+2=4 but in politic it is not 4 ??
0October 20, 2006 at 10:22 pm #145315Are you crazy … 2+2 = 6
… just ask Harry !!!0October 20, 2006 at 11:01 pm #145319
Orang_UtanParticipant@Orang_UtanInclude @Orang_Utan in your post and this person will
be notified via email.Andy, will email you. Will serve you Kajang satay when you are in Asia. :-)
0October 20, 2006 at 11:08 pm #145321
Orang_UtanParticipant@Orang_UtanInclude @Orang_Utan in your post and this person will
be notified via email.Keep on arguing whether lean or six sigma is better is meaningless.
Chinese ex-paramount leader, Deng Xio Peng has a famous saying, “Regardless it is a white or black cat, as long as it can catch a mouse is a good cat”.0October 20, 2006 at 11:12 pm #145323
Orang_UtanParticipant@Orang_UtanInclude @Orang_Utan in your post and this person will
be notified via email.This more than 13 years ago slide shall shutting off claim from those professed “sensei” in TBM and George group that lean six sigma is their “invention”.
They are other people combining quality and speed under a system prior to 1993. Oliver Wight is also not the first one to do so.0October 21, 2006 at 1:12 am #145328Mouse is sacred. Very bad cat.
0October 21, 2006 at 1:18 am #145329Hahahaha(LOL), I am glad to see your excellent discuss on this issue which let us know in-depth six sigma & lean.
My opinion with simple: Lean has 4 letters and Six Sigma has 8 letters plus one blank, thus Lean is leaner than SS.
Hahahaha.
Would like to chip in more in the following discuss.
Simon W0October 21, 2006 at 8:05 am #145354
Marlon BrandoParticipant@Marlon-BrandoInclude @Marlon-Brando in your post and this person will
be notified via email.Agree:Sound “stupid” Logic (SSL):I suggest to initiate this new trend for those who are not serious and like to make fun:SSL??
0October 21, 2006 at 8:55 am #145356
Orang_UtanParticipant@Orang_UtanInclude @Orang_Utan in your post and this person will
be notified via email.Simon Wong?,I seocnd you, LSS is a three letters word, leaner than four letters word, lean. LOL
0October 21, 2006 at 9:35 am #145361You are wrong. Six Sigma has a lot more than one blank mind … so if it comes to IQ, SS is leaner than lean.
0October 21, 2006 at 2:53 pm #145371Hahaha, That’s great!
Cheers,
Simon W0October 21, 2006 at 7:30 pm #145381
Marlon BrandoParticipant@Marlon-BrandoInclude @Marlon-Brando in your post and this person will
be notified via email.New Style:Simon’s hahahah
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