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  • #30914

    chew
    Participant

    Most Six Sigma statistic tools exist many decades ago. What is great is some body smart who separate and package all these tools into appropriate DMAIC phases. The methodology itself is something new and powerful but not the stand alone tools.
    Anybody out there would think that we need a Methodology to implement Lean Manufacturing more effectively ? Tools like Kanban/JIT, Quick Change, Cellular Cell, Waste Elimination, Poke Yoke, Total Productive Maintainance, Andon and etc are stand alone tools ?
    Does everybody believe Cellular Cell is appliable to all or most factories ? How do you see the feasibility of Cellular Cell concept on environment where high capital/equipment intensive and require vast space to produce ? Do you think Wafer process or Automotive process are good if Cellular Cell concept used ??
    Comments appreciated.
    Chew
     
     
     
     
     
     

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    #81134

    Arthur
    Participant

    As a lean practitioner for over 14 years, I have become more bias to Lean than to Six Sigma.  The philoposes are the same.  Both focus on the customer, are fact driven, process and management focused, and drive to the goal of zero defect.    Many of the tools you have mentioned came out of lean.  Kanban, JIT, Quick Change Over, Wast Elimination, Poke- Yoke, Total Productive Maint., Andon, etc.  At my current education level of SS, I actually still perfer lean.  If you are not efficient in lean, then you simply lack training.  (Same case as myself with SS).  
    Is Cellular Manufacturing applicable to all or most factories?  Yes.  One of the major principles of breaking unites in to cells is to stream line the process to meet or exceed the main line flow.  Another is to continue to reduce waste so that multiple cells can be linked to perform simutaneous operations as well is quick change-overs. 
    Example of High capital equipment and vast space. EX:  Mold injection.  Two rows of machines facing each other would allow one person to easily run six to eight machines simultaneously rather that a single linear set-up.   If you currently feel that SS is more methodical then lean, read more of the comments on this forum.  “How do I select a project?, How do you implement SS in Sales and Service?, How do you implement SS in HR?, etc. It appears to me that SS is still in the early develpment stages, just as lean was in the early 40’s through 60’s in Japan, early 60’s through 80’s in America.
     
     

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    #81268

    Terry
    Member

    I agree with all of the previous points about lean manufacturing and Six Sigma. It seems that much of SS is a re-packaging of the concepts that have been used for years, just with additional emphasis on the quality metrics.
    I have a little different view though on the applicability of cellular manufacturing in an environment of high capital costs and space consumption. Continuing with the injection molding example, in addition to a operator running multiple presses, you may be able to cellurize some finishing type operations next to the presses; i.e. sub-assy, drilling, packaging. However, there are some subsequent operations that may not make sense to try to put in the same cell as molding, such as painting. A painting operation may take considerable space and capital cost so it would not be practical to replicate that at every press or group of presses.
    In a case like that, you would review the overall facility layout and make sure that operations that have considerable interaction would be close to each other; it is kind of cellular on a grand scale.
     
     

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    #81277

    R
    Participant

    Arthur,
    Given your experience in Lean, for those interested in learning more about “Lean in action: both at the ground level and at the senior management level”, which is the best book in the market on this subject.
    Thank you for the advise.
    R.

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    #81278

    Ron
    Member

    Great topic!  Any six sigma program that does not include the lean tools is not worth continuing in todays world.
    As a practitioner of both six sigma as a MBB and a Lean expert we find a nedd for both in the continuos improvement toolbox.
    I agree that the lean tools are more widely appicable in any type of industry, however, once you lean a process out you still have the variation the needs to be addresses, and would’nt it be great to do them at the same time.
    Start with Lean Thinking by James Womack and look at the Lean Enterprise web site.
     

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    #81280

    Ang
    Participant

    Ron is right what a powerful combination!  As a practitoner of both and biased to neither, they both have their strengths and weaknesseses.  Combine them together with TOC and you have a very powerful set.
    The aim of the tools is to improve a process.  One way of looking at it, is by eliminating the inhibitors.  The inhibitors can be split into 3 -Waste (the lean emphasis), Variability (input, process and demand) and Inflexibility (inability to react to change in demand).  The three tools appropriately used can really improve the situation.
    TOC thinking can help in the identification of the real problem (the constraint), and the TOC tools can help in improvement; also the lean tools are great, easy to use and make superb common sense plus six sigma of course is perfect for quantifying and sorting out the issues with the data/variablity. 
     I am finding that the 3 can be used in harmony with superb effect, especially in a well educated and motivated company.
    Has anyone else had similar experiences?
     

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    #81298

    John D
    Participant

    Peter,
     
    I am a Black Belt and am not up with all the abbreviations in all the other approaches, can you please elaborate on TOC (are these the standard TQ tools?).
    Thanks

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    #81299

    Charles H
    Participant

    TOC = Theory of Constraints, popularized by Eliyahu Goldratt in “Critical Chain” and “The Goal”

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    #81301

    TCJ
    Member

    What is Cellular Cell?

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    #81303

    KYChew
    Participant

    I am glad this web has provided all of us many good mentors around the world. For those who understand and practice Lean Manufacturing, Six Sigma and Theory of Contraints simultaneously should be given a chance to run an Operation. All three are mutually compliment each other. Without one, an organization would not achieve world class. You can not be truly Lean if your process has big variation due to high rework (hidden factory) and scrap. You are not competitive despite having all processes achieving 6sigma level if you have high cycle time and slow response. One is speed/efficiency (Lean) and another is “do it right at the first time/effectiveness”.
    And if you have both efficiency and effectiveness, you do need TOC to focus at the right ‘project’. It has adverse effect if an organization continue to increase speed at all stations/process without considering which one is bottleneck and vice versa. TOC guide you to have System Thinking rather than individual (dept) focus. What is the point of building more and more without being able to sell ? What is the meaning of increasing the productivity at non-bottleneck station without solving the up front bottleneck issues ?
    Thank you for your participation.

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    #81304

    Arthur
    Participant

    As for tcj’s question what is a cellular cell?  That is the little cage that Billbob keeps his opposum’s in stored around one of his cellular lines in hope to trap a BB and beating the crap of it, then feed it to his pet.
    As for R’s question on the best Lean Book.. I have not found one that puts everything together as it should, (just as there is not one for SS I liked either).    However the best Novel form that I have seen published is “The Goal” by Eli Goldratt. (Sorry if I spelled you last name wrong Eli, I haven’t read you book in over 10yrs, I heard your reprint was great, will get it soon… shame on me).
    Best book, I kind of put together my own and consolidated it to one page that puts all of the lean tools together in a form that makes sence.
     

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    #81306

    Charles H
    Participant

    “Cellular Cell” refers to process Cell Design / Layout.  Many processes are set up in hap-hazard or linear layouts.  Cellular Design helps to optimize process flow and multi-tasking of workers.  It is critical to the implementation of one-piece-flow, JIT and Kanban.  A good book on the topic is from Productivity Press:  “Shopfloor Series:  Cellular Manufacturing – one piece flow for workstations”
    Answering the other posted question about cell manufacturing and automotive . . . yes, I have seen cell design work well within the automotive industry – after all, Lean was created at Toyota! 
    A great example of Lean applied to the old “smokestack” industries is the 737 line at Boeing and their “moving line.”  Actually, nothing new – this was applied to aircarft manufacturing back in WWII, but the lessons learned from Toyota have been applied as well.  You can read about the “moving line” at http://www.boeing.com/commercial/initiatives/lean/movingline.html.  The additional links at this site give some pretty good info on Boeing’s lean implementation.
    Hope this helps.
    Charles H

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    #81310

    Arthur
    Participant

    Sorry Charles, was trying to have a little fun. 
    I would like to empasize a little caution about the the concept of cellular manufacturing.  It is not a fix all for all applications.  In a former employeer this was taken as a literal transformation and the application was very unsuccessful.
                              Cell 1    Cell 2    Cell 3         Cell 1    Cell 2    Cell 3        Insp
    Raw
                              Cell 1    Cell 2    Cell 3          Cell 1    Cell 2    Cell 3        Insp
    Example:  Raw Material was transfer from Raw to all cell 1 locations.  ( this caused a large build up at each cell 1 location, not to mention the waste of conveyance).  From Cell 1 to Cell 2 to Cell 3, the product was then transfered to Inspection. ( Which caused another build up at Inspection, including waste of conveyance).
    Although the design was cellular, it did not match one for one piece flow.  It caused build-up at Cell 1 and Inspection locations, and each cell worked independent of the other cells causing build up between each cell. 
    Caution should be used in the design of a cellular process to insure 1 piece flow, balanced processes, and flexible manpower.  Not for the sole purpose of putting a line in a u-shape configuration.
     
     

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    #81314

    Charles H
    Participant

    Arthur,
    No worries – I got a good laugh out of it!  We gotta have some fun – that’s what it”s all about!  Here’s an interesting question if I dare – oh, what the heck?  Here goes.
    Which is more “fun” and why?  The Lean or Six Sigma tools sets?  Personally, I enjoy both but really enjoy a good Kaizen Blitz.  Lots of action working with cross functional teams where the “rubber meets the road” and you have solid fixes in place in a short time frame.  Any body else have any thoughts?
    Best to all,
    Charles H

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    #81320

    Arthur
    Participant

    Forgive me of course, but this seems to strike several nerves.  1st is I’m pissed at myself for not knowing as much about SS as I think I should, 2nd is the impression I’m forming about, not the tools themselves but the functionality of the tools used by the BB’s.
    My impression of SS is beginning to take on a refelection of anal-retentive statisticians more involved in the detail of X to the nth degree / 1,000,000. than in the process and fun of solving a problem.
    Give me a Kaizen blitz any time, any day, any where.  Watch lean put associates together to help supply data.  Watch the team leader develop the before and after picture showing results.  Watch the manager over view the project from its inception to completion, providing only support.  Watch the associates see the presentations made by the team leam leader to the Vice-President and all of the manufacturing, HR, Maint., Engineering and Purchasing Managers.  Watch the team take pride as they see Team Work.  Yes we the VP care, yes we the Mgrs care, yes we the Team Leaders care, and yes we the TEAM care.  What a great job TEAM, keep it up.
    My appologies if my impression is not forming the same way for SS.  Watch the MBB throw another statistical curve ball at the BB making themselves look important, Watch the BB ask for more data by the team, and ask them to hide certain data to make the curve look good.  Watch the BB resubmit the project to the MBB so that they can chart $M savings that would never be spent regardless, and watch the associates laugh because that haven’t changed a thing, and everyone is being told good job and no one know quite why.
    (I’m going to get a midol from my wife and dress Billybob’s ‘possum up as santa and see if he notices).
     
     

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    #81324

    Anonymous
    Participant

    Amen and well said.
    Six Sigma does seem to filled with a bunch of pompous self righteous business wannabe’s.

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    #81325

    Anonymous
    Participant

    Boeing? Lean?
    Do you think George Bush is a liberal?

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    #81326

    Lean SS guy
    Participant

    KY  excellent point on improving the front end. A lot of folks tend to overlook that improving the velocity of the water hose doesn’t do a lot if you aren’t opening the valve (selling more) to fill the increased capacity.
     

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    #81341

    Charles H
    Participant

    >Boeing? Lean?  Do you think George Bush is a liberal?
     
    Boeing may not be “lean”,  but they have begun the journey and they have made some significant improvements.  Whether their experience is good or bad, we can learn from them, if we maintain an open an engaged mind.  After all, isn’t that what we’re here for?
    Have a great day!
    Charles H

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    #81343

    Anonymous
    Participant

    Charles, I agree, I just prefer to learn from those who know.

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    #81349

    Ganley
    Participant

    Arthur,
    would you care to share your one page on Lean tools?
     
    Thanks

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    #81353

    Arthur
    Participant

    It cannot be posted to this page because of the Word doc. graphics.  If you send me your e-mail, I will send you a copy.  [email protected]
     

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    #81354

    Barb T.
    Participant

    Hi Arthur,
    I believe that your word doc can be posted by using the “Post/Attach Document” link found in one of the boxes above (to the right of the post title). I’d love to see it also.
    Thanks!
    Barb

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    #81361

    Arthur
    Participant

    Sorry Barb,
    My screen does not have a “Post/Attach Document” icon for some reason.  Either that or its a Male thing, and I just dont see it.  In either case, if you send me an e-mail I will reply.
    [email protected]
     

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    #81373

    Karla
    Participant

    Ladies and gentlemen,
    First let me say it is refreshing to hear all the views, opinions, and anedotes on the subject of Lean and SS.  As a former QE and now a budding Org. Development Specialist (and soon to be BB), I have seen people within my organization become very polarized on this subject.  So much so, it has stopped us from moving forward with any viable plan for a self-sustataining continuous improvement process/philosophy (which is what it all really boils down to, isn’t it?). As I have been trying to sort out the differences and likenesses of the two subjects to find the connectivity I have come across two books I am in the process of digesting.  The first, Lean Six Sigma:Combining Six Sigma Quality with Lean Production Speed by Micheal L. George, is an in-depth look at the subject matter.  The second is a short story along the same lines as The Goal called Leaning Into Six Sigma by Wheat, Mills, and Carnell.  It is actually a bit of a hoot if you have ever been where the consultant in the book has been. 
    Anyway to my point, I am of the opinion you can’t have one without the other, to make any real sustained improvements.  But, as our company’s own history has shown, neither will be successful without the primary ingredient, Top-down management sponsorship (expressed, modeled, and reinforced),  and a defined plan for implementation, administration, and integration as a continuing way of how to do business.  With that being said, I will get off the pedestal and hope that the books I have recommended are of some help.

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    #113692

    MudaSensei
    Participant

    Arthur, if your still around…….
    Just curious, 2 years down the line……Do you still feel the same way?
    Btw….excellent choice of words !!

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    #150211

    jack ma
    Participant

    cels are good but are not versital. you wind up useing more people then need. keep this in mund. lean is just an industral fad. most companys have management that have no knowledge of what they are selling. They don’t have the knowledge to make improvements on there own. They need something to get them through to the next place of employement. the company hires a company the help them with lean. the price is high. once there sucked in. they will never say it was a bad move. before you get sucked in/ just hire a good manager that has a large amount of manufacting experience.  trust me i know

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    #150216

    Mikel
    Member

    trust me i know?
    Sounds to me you don’t know much.

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    #150217

    Happy
    Participant

    Did you realize you posted to a thread that was created in 2002?  

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    #150290

    Pipkin
    Participant

    you much work for tmb. total bs management.  

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