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Lean vs Six Sigma project

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  • #42172

    Texgal
    Member

    I am a SS MBB but don’t know Lean very well (but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express).  I am about to do a consulting assignment where I will need to determine what is a Lean project vs a Six Sigma project.  I know the two can also be used together (Lean out the waste and then reduce variation), but I cannot find anything that tells me what situations would call for Lean alone, SS alone or Lean and SS together.  Any light you can shed on this?

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    #132995

    Mr IAM
    Participant

    The approach that take is this.  If the project Y is time related, I use the Lean tool for Analyze, Improve phases.  I still use the Six Sigma tools for Define, Measure and Control as I don’t think Lean tools address those phases very well.  If the project Y is somthing like a defect rate, I use the SS tools all the way through.
    I hope that helps.  I don’t view any project as being all “lean” becuase lean does not have some key tools like MSA, or Capability Analysis apply any tool from any method when it is most applicable – that is my advice.
    Cheers!

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    #133008

    ALegendInMyOwnMind
    Participant

    Pretty Good advice from MrIam.  I would add this:
    Which tools to use depend on what you are trying to improve.  Cost reduction (production and inventory) and time-based measures (lead times, time-to-market, order lead time, on-time-delivery, throughput time, cycle time, takt time, etc) are well served by LEAN.  I find it most useful in the Define phase of DMAIC when dealing with processes that are unmapped or non-standardized.  Using the LEAN techniques will strengthen and stabilize the process as you move forward into your DMAIC set. 

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    #133012

    Texgal
    Member

    Thanks so much for your feedback.  I am going into this company and doing an initial assessment to determine what their core processes are and then perform a prioritization exercise along with bucketizing them into Nike (Just Do It)/Low hanging fruit projects, Lean projects and Six Sigma projects.  I just don’t know enough about Lean to know which ones may qualify as using Lean.  I only have a five month time frame to complete two projects so I am thinking they will have to be Lean vs Six Sigma or a very small SS project.  I like the idea of combining the tools.  I will definitely do that.
    These processes will not be manufacturing…they will be transactional.  Most of them will likely either be something taking too long (cycle time) or something coming out incorrect (defect).
     

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    #133013

    DYLJON
    Participant

    I’ve used Lean Tools to derive specifications (at the Define stage as suggested). Once we had specifications we could show capability.
    SS tools can be used to show the extent of the improvement.
     
     

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    #133015

    Texgal
    Member

    What Lean tools do you use to derive specs?  That is interesting to me…

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    #133016

    Dr. Scott
    Participant

    Texgal,
    There are no lean tools that derive specs.
    Dr. Scott

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    #133017

    DYLJON
    Participant

    The project came from a VSM. On once particular machine overtime and inventory were high. When OEE was measured on the machine the setting time was varying a great deal (std dev =60 minutes), as was the OEE itself.
    The machine operators had been through similar (and failed) improvements efforts before, so this time we agreed that we would work on specifications for set up time and OEE.
    First we calculated the interval (see “Learning to See”), which then gave us Setting time & Qty per Hour specs.We are now working on setting up a pull system pulling from a supermarket with kanbans.
    We’ve reduced the setting time by 30%.
    Dylan
     
     

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    #133018

    DYLJON
    Participant

    Dr Scott,
    I’ve been reading a lot of your posts you obvioulsly know what you are talking about. What do you think of the approach we took.

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    #133020

    Dr. Scott
    Participant

    DylJon,
    I apologize. I am not sure what approach you are referring to. If I have missed something, then please let me know.
    Dr. Scott

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    #133021

    DYLJON
    Participant

    Using the concept of an interval to determine specifications for set up time.

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    #133022

    Dr. Scott
    Participant

    DylJon,
    Sorry , I have no idea what you are speaking of when you say “concept of an interval”. I guess I cannot help you.
    And please make your font larger. My old eyes can’t read that small.
    Take Care,
    Dr. Scott

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    #133023

    DYLJON
    Participant

    I was responding to your statement that “There are no lean tools that derive specs.”
    With Pull you can work out the interval and get specs for setting time.
    Takt time could be treated as a spec.
    Inventory levels have max and min,
    etc.

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    #133024

    Dr. Scott
    Participant

    You seem to be speaking more of “triggers” than specs. Triggers are more like control limits than specs.
    But I do not see what this conversation has to do with Texgal’s question/issue.
    Dr. Scott

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    #133025

    DYLJON
    Participant

    We’ve gone off an a tangent and should stop now.
    Thank You
    Dylan

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    #133026

    Nero
    Participant

    Standardized work rings a bell? What if your are dealing with an attribute, ordinal or nominal scale or a manual operation?

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    #133032

    Khammashco
    Participant

    Hello Dr. Scott,
     
    You are still around !!!! How are you?. Drop me a line or two on e-mail please
     
    khammashco

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    #133037

    Kumar
    Participant

    Think of it this way
    lean is about muda
    six sigma is about mura
    both are required
    Do you agree?

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    #133041

    DYLJON
    Participant

    Agreed.
    I’ve known lean for a while, but I’m new to SS, (I’m still working on my GB certification).
    Now when I look at VSMs, I’m also looking for variation as well as waste. Whereas before SS I was only concerned with waste.
    At our site they are really fond of trends etc. I’ve tried pointing out that we should maybe look into why the chart is zig-zagging so much (even if it is going in the right direction).
    Not much luck with that so far.

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    #133624

    melvin
    Participant

    Why do you feel need to differentiate in this case?  If you are looking for 5-6 months of activity – you are obviously not looking at a broad lean or six sigma deployment.  That means projects to address a few important areas – possibly leading to a decision to deploy lean production system and / or six sigma, i.e., you are working on an improvement project.  Given that DMAIC is good methodology for structured problem solving – what other roadmap would you use.  At the next level down of tools in each phase – that’s where I can see you pulling in ‘stat tools’, ‘lean tools’, ‘TOC tools’, etc.
    How does the the lean vs. six sigma debate / characterisation add value (or clarity) to your work (for your customer)?  I see lots of consultants using this debate as chatter to seel products, but see little to gain from the classification.
    Bob

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    #133626

    Dog Sxxt
    Participant

    What gonna do the setup time with pull kanban? Use more jargons to scare your customer or what….
    And learn to post with correct font size first before talking about solving any real problem for paid customers.
     

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    #133627

    Dog Sxxt
    Participant

    Your customer must be forgotten to do define stage in their consultant selection process. Obviously they have made a wrong decision.

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    #133648

    Heebeegeebee BB
    Participant

    Dog Shiznit (aka GrammerMaster),
    You crack me up…

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    #133700

    Askmeifyouwanttoknow?
    Participant

    What  is wrong  in  using  more  Jargons?Doctors are  usually  using  lot  of  Jargons and  they  maintain respect.Why  not:Let  those  idiots  in  Business  know  the  limits  of  their  stupidity?Do  you  agree  or  not?Afterall We  as  Consultants and  quality  experts invested lot  of  money  and  a  life-time  experience to  achieve  that  level….Again  why  not?Finally  what  is  the  difference  between a  Doctor (MD) and  a  real quality  consultant  or  expert?both  are  using  “tools’ to  solve  problems (body  problems or  business problems)??

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    #142487

    Kinnersley
    Participant

    You have to look for both in every improvement activity because the two are related.  One form of waste is defects.  Defects are created through excess variation.  Focus on eliminating waste, AND reducing variation for optimal results.  If we’re only looking at lean, we’re only focusing on efficiency – delivering the final product to the customer faster through less steps.  If we’re only looking at six sigma, we’re only looking at the end product, not how we get there.  Again, both are very important.  If we’re only doing one, we’re missing a big piece.

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    #144479

    Reggie Quiyono
    Participant

    Using DMAIC (and consequently, Six Sigma tools) in Lean Manufacturing Projects is easier than you can imagine!!So you can take this methodology careless if is LeanMfg project or not. It would take time to make specific recomendatrions but i hope you find usefull this info about productive process improvement.
    Define: You should define model products, desired capacity and of course datelines and a Buffer stock to keep safe customers orders
    Measure: Create a Value stream Map, install a Production Board, take times and create an Operator balance chart (OBC). Specially this tool could help to balance the process and have waste in the operations.
    Analyze: Having the OBC, you can analize a proposal of balanced process assuming one pice flow. You will have a bottle neck that will be reduced in the simple balance.
    Improve: Run a pilot line. You should specify inDefine the time of test.
    Control: Once you have proved the pilot line, deliver eiht the proper paperwork to keep an eyeinthe process.

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