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This topic contains 17 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  Mike Carnell 7 years ago.

Viewing 18 posts - 1 through 18 (of 18 total)
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  • #54039

    Jeff Barnhill
    Participant

    Hi all,

    I am looking for feedback from my MBB peers.

    Since when did it become acceptable to say “I cannot answer that because I am not a statistician”.

    I hear this from individuals who teach other black belts on such things as 2-sample T tests, ANOVA and even on MSA variable study questions!

    What are your thoughts?

    P.S. I am asking this when I recently read a thread here where a simple question was asked about gage resolution and no one, not even proclaimed master black belts could answer (there sure were some nice fancy answers though!).

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    #193092

    Chris Seider
    Participant

    @EddieBarnhill
    Just like in life, MBB’s are on a “bell-shaped?” curve with regards to skills. Some attributes like statistical expertise, coaching/mentoring, training, project selection, project management, change management to name a few will all have varying levels in anybody. You might wonder at what the MINIMUM level should be but one should NEVER be afraid to say “I don’t know, let me get back with you”. Sometimes we all get brain freezes, or we can’t understand their accent (or they understand mine), lack of particular knowledge, or maybe it’s some time management.

    My colleagues know I’m NOT a statistician but I have other talents and know how to use statistics and analysis to drive business results. If you ask me to derive the t curve, I’d have to say “Let me get back with you. :) ”

    What’s the real purpose behind the question of yours? Some of us either get too swamped to answer OR we know someone else will jump on the post or we just go “hmmmph” and ignore some things out there. Some of us even use this forum to keep in contact if on odd time zones.

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    #193098

    gomezadams

    Never be afraid to say I don’t know!
    This prompts an opportunity to learn.
    Chris,you’re dead on.

    ps
    Where the hell do they get these obtuse two words that we type into the box just so we can post? These hypo/hyer hyphenated and blurred out words that we must be able to discern and type in.

    I knew I needed an eye test,some of these random words confirm it?

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    #193116

    Joel

    @spazwhatsup I second your comments about the words at the bottom. These things are brutal and you can hardly ever ready them.

    Click on the speaker button for a real treat…I have no idea how what is spoken with gibberish in the background has anything to do with the words given.

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    #193125

    MBBinWI
    Participant

    @cseider – While I agree on the distribution of capabilities, I would expect that a “certification” would dictate a mean shift to a level where the minimum level is beyond the “I can’t answer because I’m not a statistician.”

    I’m not a statistician (as I’m sure Robert Butler can attest – a most learned statistician on this board), but I know enough to formulate a question and research a solution. Anything less would not delineate an MBB in my opinion.

    Now there are many instances where the answer is “it depends.” In fact, most questions that I receive must be prefaced with those two words – and until we establish the assumptions, anything else is a hope/prayer.

    @EddieBarnhill – I’m assuming that your comment was related to my post related to MSA and precision. Yes, I’m rather disappointed in the responses, particularly since it didn’t take a profound understanding of statistics, rather a fundamental understanding of basics. If you read my recent posting in that thread you will find a favorite question of mine which I use to separate those who have studied SS and those who understand SS. There is a difference.

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    #193157

    Chris Seider
    Participant

    @MBBinWI
    It depends….do I want to admit you are right. :)
    Yes, it would be appropriate to have some measure of a minimum standard but a purely technical measure on change management for an MBB would be HIGHLY tough, don’t you agree?

    I stand by someone’s past statement that I’d take a group of MBB’s, GB’s, or BB’s that could work with people and drive change with passion and energy than a group with mainly technical skills. However, so I’m clear…we need a MIX of skills for a group to work best–especially for a medium/larger organization that can have a group of MBB’s for leading the CI efforts.

    Oh, and I definitely need the RB’s, RK’s, and LK’s within an ear shot.

    OK, coffee break is over.

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    #193158

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    @EddieBarnhill I am not sure how you have determined that people think it is acceptable to say that based on what? You have heard it how many times? I am not really sure how many times I would need to hear something before I decided it was now acceptable to say it. That comment wouldn’t fly in my company or the companies of most of the people I know. I have been in places where the culture drives that type of answer. In at least 2 organizations I am aware of there was an individual that tried to position himself as the approver of DOE’s before they were run. A second opinion is always a smart thing but I haven’t met the person with some kind of devine knowledge – although there are some that I do trust more than others.

    If this is a real issue for you why don’t you ask them why they said it? People do things for reasons and the simplest answer is to ask the people doing it.

    @MBBinWI and @cseider Absolutely agree with you on Robert Butler’s response. Let’s not forget a resource we all use on a pretty regular basis – the people at Minitab. Joel, who now is posting regularly – thank you, is a statistician and is very helpful. He replaced someone that is a statistician and was absolutely great, Jennifer Atlas.

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    #193164

    Chris Seider
    Participant

    @mike-carnell
    Of course, use Minitab resources….. :)

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    #193166

    Jennifer Atlas
    Participant

    @mike-carnell
    Thanks for the kind words Mike! Even though my work is different now, I hope you’ll still reach out to me for those rare instances when you aren’t sure of an answer. It’s not like Minitab put me back in the vault for awhile like they do with those Disney movies. @cseider, yes, I know it’s been a month since your email….I promise to catch up this week.

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    #193168

    MBBinWI
    Participant

    @jennatlas – can’t believe that your “reputation” score is only 73. Seems like @katiebarry should do something about that…

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    #193169

    Katie Barry
    Keymaster

    Done :)

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    #193170

    Chris Seider
    Participant

    @jennatlas
    No problem. You had popped into my mind when Mr. C. had mentioned the best institution in State College.

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    #193177

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    @jennatlas I know they have not locked you away but we do miss your bright smiling face (we won’t mention bloodshot eyes) at the conferences.

    I do think that we have seriously neglected people understanding the difference the statistical software has made in our ability to roll out Six Sigma. Basically without it the whole concept of the way we roll it out would have to be different if we did not have the software to do the anaysis. Nobody except Gary Cone wants to do this on a 4 function calculator. Minitab jumped in to help us since the first wave of training in 1995 and has spent a lot of resources supporting the SS industry. We do appreciate the support and we appreciate the quality of the people Minitab has always kept on board to support all of us out here. Thanks.

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    #193188

    MBBinWI
    Participant

    @mike-carnell – hey, I was using Minitab back in 1981 and have the ref manual to prove it (and if I remember correctly, a B in the prob/stats class).

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    #193196

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    @MBBinWI I didn’t see Minitab until 1990 at Motorola Seguin Texas. We had been using Statgrafics up until them and always had management on our butts because of the way the graphs looked.

    Don’t remember my stats grade. I do remember talking to the professor about it. I told him I liked it and asked what I could do with stats. His enlightened advice “nothing.” I guess that is why he was teaching stats at night. I considered looking him up but what is the point?

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    #193206

    MBBinWI
    Participant

    @mike-carnell – my perpetual lament about engineering curricula is that they do not integrate variability into the design courses. Everything is book equations with “thumb rule” safety factors. I’ve tried several times to convince my alma mater to let me propose a DfSS course. In fact, one of my classmates is the current dpt head for civil and mech eng dpt and I can’t get him to bring me in for a proposal. They have a 6 week (18 hours) GB track in the eng mgmt course. You’d think that with the military embracing LSS, and the criticality of logistics and acquisition, there’d be more of an interest.

    Funniest thing about Minitab in the olden days was that we ran it on punch cards. And you didn’t want to drop that stack or you were toast. In order not to use up punches on the card with an index number, they were printed with the index number. If you dropped them, you had to resort by looking at this probably 6 point font number. @joelatminitab – that was probably before you were even born, wasn’t it!?!

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    #193210

    Chris Seider
    Participant

    @MBBinWI
    Only had the pleasure of working with Minitab since 1991….guess this proves you are older…oh wait, that wasn’t in question. :)

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    #193222

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    @MBBinWI We did the punch card stuff too. We had SAS and SPSS.

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