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  • #40343

    jockstrap
    Participant

    I am looking for an approach to assess and select an MBB program.  Are there MBB out there who could please advise?  Thanks!

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    #124994

    Dayton
    Member

    That’s a simple little rather complex question.
     
    What’s an MBB program to you?   Is it a university or consultancy/training provider that calls it’s offering an MBB program?   Is it a business with an established Six Sigma program in which qualified Black Belts initiate and drive to conclusion many successful and significant Six Sigma projects over time and become adept at mentoring other Belts inclusive of Black Belts and evolve due to their proficiency into a very effective Six Sigma instructor and training material developer after which the business tests/evaluates/qualifies/or otherwise accepts them anointing them as Master Black Belts?   What is it to you?   There are many paths to reach your indicated goal but some are very hokey and relatively useless to organizations and yourself.  
     
    So what do you intend to do with your MBB program’s output – that’s you by the way.
     Vinny

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    #124995

    jockstrap
    Participant

    The objective is to leverage myself in such a way as to optimize project quality and completion rate.  I have no interest in the title.  I am seeking an external program (no corporate inhouse program for MBB available) that is driven by real world applications and instructor experience, with high expectations for its candidates.    Any input?

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    #124997

    Dayton
    Member

    You asked for assessment criteria.   I tried to build that into the story I told but not well it seems.  
     
    If you are not working in a large established Six Sigma infrastructure that effectively grows their own MBB’s using sound and tried methodology, practicum and criteria and are, as you seem to be, needing to look for external training I’d stay away from programs that were very short in duration, that focused on testing as a primary award criteria, or that were entirely internet based.    I’d look for a program that had a strong project completion criteria and conponent, demonstration of mentoring and successfully functioning as a trainer and one that was taught by folks that have truly worked in the Six Sigma trenches and mastered their trade versus pure or primarily academia or TQM/Business Process Re-engineering etc., retreads.   And there are a lot of people teaching and certifying that don’t have a clue or have a clue but lack experience and competency. 
     
    My BB and MBB training and certification was done by a well known and reputable (as near as I can tell anyway) provider, and had project work, mentoring and teaching as a component, but I was primarily able to go through it, I think, due to having had a lot of statistics, engineering, quality, and general management experience in my past versus having grown up long term as a Six Sigma practitioner.    Which is better for the organization?  I don’t know, it depends on you, your organization’s needs and opportunities provided you.   The training helped, my composite of prior experiences helped, but what helped most was throwing myself into the deployment fire.  But fire does different things to different folks.
     
    It’s my considered belief that for something like Six Sigma MBB training, easy and quick is not good and solely relying on the Ethernet for your training is not good.   Sorry I can’t give you a recommended path, others will, but I have seen some bad situations occur due to well-meaning people moving into spots they were not prepared for and a general causal or at least contributory theme was evident.
     
    That’s my input.  But I am not as experienced and steeped in Six Sigma lore, dogma and truths as others who post frequently – so take it with the proverbial grain of salt and good luck, I wish you well it’s a big step and needs to be done if possible without a harmful toe-stub.
     Vinny

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    #124998

    President
    Participant

    Mr. Jockstrap,I would recommend doing a Forum search using the word IQF, since we are not allowed to promote product or services.

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    #124999

    Dayton
    Member

    And as you do find the link and peruse the offerings of this fine organization please remain cognizant of the several things that I cautioned you about which would seem, at least on the surface, to embody the very essence of said fine organization.   
     
    But to each his own, and if you choose to pursue it at least get broadband connection, I hear the animated graphics are clever.
     Vinny

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    #125000

    F the BB
    Participant

    You can get 6s certifications online? I guess it was inevitable.
    I’m going to go out on a limb and say that these “Certifications” arent worth the $999.99 piece of paper they are printed on..
    Being new to 6s, do any of you more experienced guys see many people seeking employment armed with an online certification? Do you give them the time of day? Just curious is all…

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    #125003

    Dayton
    Member

    Sure.  I have interviewed a few of them and given them the time of day – occasionally even quizzed them on reading the clock.
     
    But seriously, the people you hire and place in BB positions need to be assessed carefully regardless of where they got their training and/or certification.   When we have hired from the outside we have used a gauntlet type of interview process where several people interview sequentially each with a different slant to the questions.   We try to hit hard on when, how and where they were trained and who trained them and get as deeply as we can into the projects they have completed and what the results were, how they managed and led the projects from change agent and matrix management perspectives, and then really hit hard on tool selection, use and comprehension of statistical treatments.
     
    And that’s not to say that an Internet trained or ASQ tested and certified BB can’t do an excellent job – but I’d not be telling you the truth if I said that all training and qualifications are considered equal.
     Vinny

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    #125011

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    Mr. Jockstrap,
    That is probably good advice. Do the search on IQF and find the post where this guy threatens another guy with litigation because he expressed an opinion. That would definately be the program I would sign up for. Let’s hope there aren’t any complaints from your side on the training unless you have a really good attorney and lots of time and money to waste.
    Just my opinion.
    Good luck.

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    #125028

    Dog Sxxt
    Participant

    you are selling IQF service like this is your forum.

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    #125030

    President of IQF
    Participant

    Thank you Dog Sxxt for that insightful and well thought out response.  From what I have seen, it is one of your more coherent posts.  Possibly I could just refer them to the bottom of the page so they can link directly to the site.  Would that meet your approval?  Wait, I could care less about your opinion so go take a hike.  Hey, that’s cool to use x’s to spell words.  Thanks for giving me that idea.  See, you did contribute something to this thread afterall.

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    #125032

    Dog Sxxt
    Participant

    Huuh…Seems ignorant is still not a very corretc word for you. Put a banner at the bottom of this page is still cheaper than hiring an atternoy to sue some posters here.

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    #125034

    Mikel
    Member

    Tommy boy,
    Your program are at best mediocre and IQF’s wild success is also something to point to.
    Get a clue, the world has passed your academic approach by.

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    #125036

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    FtBB,
    I don’t usually ask anyone where they got certified and we only hire people we have had fist hand experience with so the interview process is a moot point for us..
    Some of my current BB’s ran into a internet certified BB at a supplier. Within a few minutes they had assertained that he had no idea what to do with non normal data. My understanding is they left him with some homework before they would recognize the supplier as having SS capability.
    The other side is that there are some people walking around out there with impecable credentials (not that I consider an internet certification less than another type – I would never blow off a guy who was cerified by Bill Hathaway at Moresteam) but who could not fix a problem if the solution fell out of the sky. Even some of those people are ok as long as you keep them in a slot like instructing.
    At the end of the day it isn’t where did you get certified it is what have you done for the company/deployment lately?
    Just my opinion.
    Regards

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    #125038

    President of IQF
    Participant

    Mr. Dog,
    You should be sued for assaulting the English language.  This Forum is getting pretty rough.  In his post, Peppe wants to analize the data and Mike Carnell wants to fist hand something or other.  Sunday is a tough day to post here.  Stan’s made a few unproductive posts so I guess the only ones we are missing are the ever obnoxious Darth and the wordy Vinny.  Maybe they are actually doing something useful today besides boring us with their babble and blather.

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    #125039

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    President of IQF,
    Still Management by Litigation. I assume that means you will offer an internet certification on that soon?
    Great PR stuff. Keep up the good work.

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    #125040

    President of IQF
    Participant

    Thank you for the suggestion, Mr. Carnell.  Check out this site, it is one in which I have a financial interest and may be in line with your thinking.
    http://www.belforduniversity.org/university/gettingstarted.htm
     

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    #125045

    Vice President of IQF
    Member

    “Thomas Pyzdek is a Fellow of ASQ and the recipient of one of its highest honors, The Edwards Medal.  In addition to his Bachelor’s Degree in liberal arts (University of Nebraska, Omaha), Pyzdek has Master’s Degrees in both Systems Engineering and Management (University of Arizona).  Pyzdek is ASQ certified as a Quality Engineer and as a Reliability Engineer.  He was named Outstanding Writer and Author by The International Who’s Who in Quality. “
    He sounds pretty smart, with the exception of the Liberal arts degree…why does he get such a hostile response? Can’t we all just, get along?

     

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    #125047

    Curious Reader
    Participant

    Thanks for the brief bio on your boss.  Did a little research on my own and couldn’t find where he received his six sigma training and who certified him as a black belt or master blackbelt.  I see he wrote a book but that doesn’t qualify anyone as an expert.  So, what are his ss credentials and qualifications?  He seems ok on the traditional quality front but how about the ss stuff.  Thanks.

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    #125050

    Habib
    Participant

    “your program is” or “your program are”?

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    #125051

    Obnoxious Darth
    Participant

    Just got back from a weekend away and stumbled onto this thread.  Just curious as to whether I am Babble or Blather? Won’t argue with Obnoxious but need to get a better sense which I am for self improvement.  Thanks.

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    #125052

    Ken Feldman
    Participant

    Habib, it is already an established fact that English is not the first language for Stan so please don’t pick on his grammatical errors.  Plus, he gets so excited and passionate sometimes his fingers can’t keep up with his witty reparte.

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    #125068

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    VP,
    Perhaps you can show me where Tom got a hostile response.
    My issue is with the threat of litigation. This industry has been through a ton of “see if they have the money to survive the law suite” type of litigation. Nobody needs another one of those guys in the industry.
    Just my opinion.

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    #125073

    VP of IQF
    Member

    Mr. Carnell, it is LAWSUIT not law suite.  Yes, the lawyer’s location might actually be referred to as their suite of offices but they will file a lawsuit if there has been some violation of intellectual property or similar matters.  The coat and pants might be referred to as the lawyer’s suit but not the lawyer’s suite.  Suite and sweet might be confused but not in the context of a lawyer.  They can hardly be referred to as being sweet guys.  So, in conclusion, a lawyer or attorney might conduct the business of filing lawsuits while in their suite of offices wearing their suits and snacking on sweets. 
    To clear up the matter, we do not file frivolous lawsuits.  The only ones which would be considered are those that violate intellectual property or clients that don’t pay as they should. 

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    #125086

    Chris Seider
    Participant

    Darth, I’ve always enjoyed your babble since it has some wit–keep it up!  Of course I don’t agree with everything you post but I’m sure even the folks I hold in high regard, e.g. Stan and M C, don’t agree with my perspective all the time.  At least Stan and M C are known to drive results in my experience.
    I love to reinject perspective when these posts take turns and twists.  When considering MBB programs, why not do a simple need/want/desire analysis.  If you already know what you need/want/desire, then contact the firms and see where they fit in those items.  If you don’t know, then find a MBB you trust and have them help evaluate. 
    One other item.  You can often find out the style of BB or MBB with a quick 20 minute telephone interview which saves a lot of $.  I’ve seen some BB’s who say they don’t need to know the tools if a MBB is around…those aren’t the ones you want!  Also, remember not every person is an expert in every tool. 
    Darth, how would you characterize my posts?  I’m afraid of the answer…just kidding!

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    #125092

    Lawyer of IQF
    Participant

    Now wait just a minute. I’m not such a bad guy…..
    But now I’m offended. Just because I’m ‘big boned’ and enjoy snacking on a few dozen chocolate bonbons every now and then here at my desk, doesn’t nearly explain why my suit isn’t suitable for me here in my suite with my sweets, not to mention my soot covered suitcase.
    I just can’t get enough excercise, because it is always “Lawyer, send this threatening letter” or “file this request” or “Hey, you with no conscience, you’re going to hexx anyway, chase those Girlscouts from the front door but pick-up the bonbons they drop for the rest of us.”
    Thus the problem feeds on itself. Please, stop this madness so I may finally start a work-out program before it’s too late. (You know, the hexx thing.)  

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    #125093

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    VP of IQF,
    I did this thing about Mr.Carnell last week. I am feeling to damn old to get that.
    I have never consider spelling as a particularly important attribute since the invention of spell check. So in the words of Sam Peckinpah “You can cut a tin bill and go pick s**t with the chickens.”
    As far as litigation over IP, I have been down this road on several occasions. That means my attorneys time to do the research was already paid for in a previous case. The only thing between the two of us now is hot air and your good sense.
    Instead of a lawsuit with a client that does not pay you might want to view it in the SS sense and consider it a defect and find out the root cause – that could be as easy as purchasing a mirror.
    Waiting on you.
    Good luck.

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    #125094

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    LoIQF,
    You probably do have nice suites. Congratulations anyone with a couple extra bucks can buy a nice suite. Even if you gold plate a dog pile it is still s**t.
    I have also been in court enough to know you probably have a bad haircut and a briefcase that was expensive about 10 years ago to accessorize that suite.
    Great idea for an Oprah show “lawyer make overs.” Unfortunately it would probably be a 4 part series after lots of editing and the only speaking parts would be ……..you of course.
    Just my opinion.

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    #125095

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    Darth,
    You need to check your rear view mirror. The IQF boys are closing in on your master speller roll and they brought their attorney, ooooooh.
    Just my opinion.
    Regards

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    #125097

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    Chris,
    That difference of opinion was why we like you. Someone has to stand up every now and them and say “That’s BS!”
    I hope before you asked Darth his opinion you truely thought through what the answer could be.
    Regards

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    #125099

    Chris Seider
    Participant

    I am prepared for anything Darth would send my way.  :)
    Thanks for the contributions to the forum and your kind words. 

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    #125100

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    Chris,
    You are welcome.
    Are you sure you know how dark the dark side gets?
    Regards

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    #125114

    Hulk Hogan
    Participant

    MORE IQF!!!!!!!!!!!!! LESS Darth, Stan & Carnell.
     
    Mr Carnell – is something wrong?  I saw you went 5 seconds between responses to the same post.
     
     

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    #125117

    The American Dream
    Member

    Hulk,
    If you think IQF has something to offer, you’ve been dropped on your head once to often.

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    #125118

    Hulk Hogan
    Participant

    You misunderstood me – I just can’t stand Carnell, Stan or Darth.
     
    Just my opinion.

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    #125132

    Ken Feldman
    Participant

    C. Seider, you don’t post often but when you do you usually make sense which puts you ahead of a lot of other posters.

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    #125139

    Ken Feldman
    Participant

    Hey Hulk, looking on the bright side, I am third on the list so I guess you can’t stand Carnell the most (probably because he fired you a few years back), then Stan (because he worked with Carnell), then me who you probably know from a different perspective and don’t even know it.  But, thanks for your input.

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    #125164

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    Darth,
    You do know how to make an entrance. Welcome back.
    Regards

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    #125173

    Mikel
    Member

    Darth,
    A guy who hates all of us can’t be all stupid.

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    #125174

    Ken Feldman
    Participant

    Stan, you are right, it does say something about his good taste in people.  But, ha ha, I was last on the list so he likes me best, or shall I say, he dislikes me least.  In other words, who gives a crap.  I hope the Moderator lets me use that word.  I believe it would pass Phil and Vinny’s approval as proper usage of the word.

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    #125179

    Markert
    Participant

    Submitted, received, and approved using your official Darth Vader Certification rubber stamp e-version.
    Print the post, and rub it on your screen for image transfer. Save in a file folder for future reference.
     

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