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Mike, Stan, Darth, Vinny etal. – I need some help

Six Sigma – iSixSigma Forums Old Forums General Mike, Stan, Darth, Vinny etal. – I need some help

Viewing 31 posts - 1 through 31 (of 31 total)
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  • #39032

    Robert Butler
    Participant

      I haven’t paid too much attention to the who-taught-whom-what-when discussions that have been offered on this forum from time to time but one of my engineers received a circular which states ” Mr. X was the person responsible for teaching Jack Welch about six sigma. ”  I’ve left out the name on purpose.  My question is this: to the best of your knowledge is there any one person who could legitimately make this claim or are we just looking at another piece of P.T. Bunkum?

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    #117772

    Darth
    Participant

    Ok, I confess it was me.  I was the one that taught Jack all he knows.  If someone claims otherwise, they must be liars. Of course MH makes a claim but we know what a fakey wakey he is. 

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    #117779

    Loehr
    Member

    Hi Robert,
    The story I have read is that Larry Bossidy, CEO of Allied Signal and former GE executive, was the person who first introduced the concept of six sigma to Jack Welch.  Welch at that time (around 1994) was a member of the board of directors for Allied Signal.
    However, I don’t know if that means Bossidy was the person who actually taught Welch all about the 1.5 sigma shift.  I believe GE then hired Mikel Harry’s consulting firm to provide their initial six sigma training.
    Perhaps others in this forum can add some more details.

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    #117780

    Dayton
    Member

    Robert,
     
    While I must preface my opinion with the fact that I have no idea – my bet is on P.T. Bunkum.  I have tried to develop a Six Sigma time line based on the many things that I have been told and read and can only conclude that there were some number of key folks involved in the early days at Motorola and some subsequently went out on their own bringing others up to speed and along with them as they went.  That’s both as accurate and precise (and vague) as I can be.  
     
    It appears to be a lot like software revisions – when we are on commercial version 23.01, how much does it matter who was in on developmental version 1.0 versus 1.01?  Probably not much – what matters is right now who knows what, who does what and who has both the experience and wherewithal to make it happen.   The neat thing about this forum community though is that some of the posters are the real deal with knowledge and experience from Six Sigma inception to right now making it happen every day.
     Vinny

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    #117812

    Mikel
    Member

    Pssssst Vinny, keep it down.
    Darth thinks you are talking about him.
    He has a big enough head already.

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    #117814

    Dayton
    Member

    I was.   I was trying to get mercy and off the hook on the row I started with Phil, but I thought mentioning Darth by name would be a little smarmy and too, too transparent.  I’d have mentioned you and Mike C. if I thought you’d have stepped in and saved me, but it was evident that I was swimming by myself.   Mentioning Phil in a complimentary manner at that point would have had a non-intended blood in the water weakness impact – so you till the field you plowed. 
     Vinny

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    #117833

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    Robert,
    First, just want to tell you that you give some great advice around the stats questions.
    My understanding is Bossidy responded to Welch’s question about Six Sigma while they were playing golf.
    The thing you need to remember is that the Six Sigma deployment at GE was initiated with Welch. It rolled out under Gar Reiner, the CIO.
    Regards
     

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    #117836

    Robert Butler
    Participant

      Thanks everyone for the info.  I ran a Google search on the individual and found nothing and the fact that no one came up with the name at least gives me the grain of salt I needed to pass onto my guys and gals.

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    #117838

    Been There, Done That
    Participant

    Mike:
    I tried to find out what Jack’s project was for his GB certification, no one I talked to knew what it was.
    The Corporate SS Quality Leader for some years was Piet van Abeelen, after staying in the role for a long time (in GE timescale) he split off to form his own consultanting group based in the Netherlands. The mantle of responsibility for SS at GE has now gone back to Gary Reiner.You should give Gary a call and see how things are going.BTDT

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    #117839

    Been There, Done That
    Participant

    Mike:
    I tried to find out what Jack’s project was for his GB certification, no one I talked to knew what it was.
    The Corporate SS Quality Leader for some years was Piet van Abeelen, after staying in the role for a long time (in GE timescale) he split off to form his own consulting group based in the Netherlands. The mantle of responsibility for SS at GE has now gone back to Gary Reiner.You should give Gary a call and see how things are going.BTDT

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    #117853

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    BTDT,
    I never knew Jack Welch to have done a project. I did the original deployment in 1996 – along with Gary Cone and Greg Brue (have the contract signed by Gary Reiner just in case this starts to blow up again – no we never ran into Eckes so I am not sure where his claim to fame came from). I was still there in 1997. We reported directly to Gary so I never met Piet van Abeelen. Actually in that time period people from Quality were not allowed to be part of the Six Sigma deployment.
    It is easier to get a response from Gary on email than to call. Everyone wants to get him on the phone. Email seems to show more respect for his time these days.
    Regards

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    #119939

    Ray Winstone
    Participant

    I would think that Jack will have done an eband project rather than
    a green belt. I recall in the start of the big SS revival seeing the CFO
    Keith Sheron admitting that he himself did not have a GB, so it
    would be my guess that Jack, like everyone else, jumped on the
    bandwagon at that time and got certified at eband level.

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    #119954

    New VGB
    Participant

    I have a good  example  for  a  comprehensive BB Project.I may guide  you to  the  link  if  you wish,

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    #119960

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    New-VGB,
    BTDT Has been doing Six Sigma projects for years. I am sure he has all the case studies he needs.
    Just my opinion.
     

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    #119963

    Shift
    Member

    ****

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    #119966

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    You’re welcome.

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    #119969

    Dr. Scott
    Participant

    Robert,
    Mike is correct on his and Greg’s, and many other’s involvment regarding Six Sigma at GE. No one person can lay claim to starting it there, unless it is Larry. The golf course thing did happen. What I have not learned yet is 1) was there a bet, and 2) if so, who won it. I suspect Jack did.
    Doc

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    #119970

    DrSeuss
    Participant

    Hey Folks!  Does it really matter who trained who? 

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    #119974

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    Dr. Seuss,
    At least to one person it does.
     

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    #119975

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    Doc,
    Welcome back.
    Regards

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    #119978

    Dr. Scott
    Participant

    Mike,
    Thanks for the warm return. Good to be back. If I am lucky, I might actually contribute something here.
    Dr. Scott

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    #119979

    Robert Butler
    Participant

       DrSeuss, most of the time this information would probably fall into the trivia category.  This time, however, the supposed “fact” of having been the person who specifically taught Welch was being used as glitz in a sales and marketing pitch. The implication was that we-taught-Welch-and-look-what-he-did-so-if-we-teach-you-just-imagine-what-you-will-do.  I was left with the impression that this “fact’ was having an undue influence on the decision process for certain training so I just wanted to check to see if there was anything to it.

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    #119990

    New VGB
    Participant

    Agree.Anyhow  for  those  are interested to enrich their  knowledge  and  experience I would  recommend (if I’m allowed) the  following articles (as they  are  summerizing  a  major change  management  experience):(google)
    http://www.allpm.com/may/July2003.php  please  go to:A new Mix in the  cement Business:Managing  Change & Empower  as  a driver  for  change.
    Ofcourse  such  articles  are not  for  an International  Expert  (like  you and  the  other  guros in this  SS-Forum),but  mainly for  “ordinary  people”(like  me).Hope  that would  help those  who  are interested to read  practical success stories (with muti-national cultural elements).thanks  and  regards.
    http://www.allpm.com/July2003.php 
    http://www.allpm.com/July2003.php
     

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    #119992

    Mikel
    Member

    You guys can sit around and suppose all you want to, but Jack never went through BB or GB (same course at GE).

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    #119994

    Dr. Scott
    Participant

    Stan,
    No, Jack never did. How many times do we have to say that here??
    Dr. Scott
     

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    #119995

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    I was wondering when you were going to jump in some of this.

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    #119998

    Dr. Scott
    Participant

    I jump in when I think I might have some little bit to offer.

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    #120001

    Dayton
    Member

    New-VGB,
     
    Instead of posting links to the works of others and giving implicit acknowledgement and recommendation of same, how about explaining where you found relevance and what made the information gained a new or better explained insight.  
     
    You frequently state that this or that posting, article or book was a new or valued approach and leave it to the reader of your posting to decide where you saw value and how it differed from the norm.
     
    I just read the articles in the couple of referenced links that actually worked and came up with “so?”
     
    I have not seen a value add to your advocated readings.   And I’m actually trying to give you a chance.
     
    Next time you find a gem in the public domain and you decide to point to it, tell us what it meant, why you found or assigned relevance, and why we are better off for having read both your thoughts and those whose input you found significant.
     
    And don’t give me that, “Agreed .I am notexpert Iam seeking guidance .” crap in response.  I’ll reach right through your monitor screen and slap you off your ornate little computer stool.   And I only say that out of fondness and a desire to help.   
     
    Your virtual friend,
     Vinny

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    #120005

    DrSeuss
    Participant

    Thanks Bob, now I understand what’s going on. 

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    #120016

    New VGB
    Participant

    Thank You (my Virtual  Friend).Actually those  articles  were written  by  me (first in the  ASQ  Forum and  later in this  forum),and  (in brief) it was  a “useful” description  of  a  an International (merging) change  management experience.I was  the “JCF  Horizon 2001” Champion at that time ,and it was  a  real  success  story,have  worked  together (partely during  the  first  3  months) with an International change  management  (french) consultant .Details  are available  in those  3  articles.Please  kindly  “stop” attacking  me if  you don’t  like  my  posting ,then ignore  it if  you wish ,others  might find  some  useful  aspects here and  there,thanks  and  regards.   

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    #120022

    Dayton
    Member

    New-VGB,
     
    If you wrote those rather bland articles and floated them out without authorship attribution as descriptions of major change management successes then again you have misrepresented yourself and are again being somewhat disingenuous.   Don’t you think?
     
    I still recommend that you describe what you believe is significant in a recommended reading, why it is significant and why it should be read and pondered by others.
     
    Never let it be said that I just point out a problem and walk away without pointing to a potential solution or at least a path to a solution.   Use Google and do various Boolean searches around the topic “book report” +template  and read the various approaches to both accurately and enticingly summarizing reading recommendations. 
     
    And this is in no form or fashion an attack or continuation of an attack.   I don’t get personal, especially in an impersonal domain.   I remain hopeful and helpful.
     
    Your virtual friend,
     Vinny

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