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Minitab use question

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  • #51031

    Bryan
    Participant

    I’m working on data analysis in my analysis phase. I have data within 1400 rows, across 14 columns. When I try to import my data into minitab from xls, I receive an error message asking me to delete “elements” so that my worksheet has “less than 10,000 elements.” Until I do so, I cannot use the data. I’ve tried to parse the data onto two worksheets and then use BOTH data worksheet’s combined to conduct an analysis; but it won’t pick up the data on the other worksheets. Guidance here is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

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    #176245

    Mikel
    Member

    How about copy and paste? Minitab will definitely handle that amount
    of data.

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    #176247

    Bryan
    Participant

    thanks Stan, but I’m not explaining myself properly. I can actually get it “into” a minitab spreadsheet, but it won’t allow the actual analysis as it exceeds the 10,000 element allowance.

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    #176248

    Mikel
    Member

    What version of Minitab do you have?

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    #176249

    Bryan
    Participant

    v14 student.

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    #176250

    Mikel
    Member

    Must be a limitation of the student version.
    Excel is capable of doing anything Minitab can do. What type of analysis are you trying to do?

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    #176253

    Robert Kluttz
    Member

    No, Excel cannot do everything Minitab can do.  And I do think it’s a student version limitation.

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    #176256

    Ozarski
    Participant

    Yes, this is a limitation of the Student Version of Minitab.
     
    Jeff O
    Minitab Inc.

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    #176262

    Mikel
    Member

    What can Minitab do that Excel can’t? I’ll bet you are wrong on anything you name – just prettier graphs and easier.

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    #176264

    Ken Feldman
    Participant

    Since most of Mini’s outputs have an underlying computation of data, Excel could theoretically come up with the same answer.  Difference is that Mini does it with a single dialog box whereas Excel requires a bunch of cell definitions and/or macros.  Why would one want to waste their time duplicating all the calculations when Mini can do it, as you say, easier and prettier?

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    #176266

    Robert Kluttz
    Member

    Excel is limited to 65,536 rows.  Minitab is not. 
    That may not seem like a significant difference.  But if you’re trying to analyze the output of a high speed data historian (ie 1.4MM data points per hour) it rapidly becomes a big deal.

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    #176267

    Robert Kluttz
    Member

    So what do I win?

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    #176270

    Mikel
    Member

    Not true with 2007 – limit is 1 million rows and some neat tricks using
    text files have Excel unlimited fo at least the last two versions.

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    #176271

    Mikel
    Member

    Nothing – you are wrong.

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    #176272

    Mikel
    Member

    very few things where your observation are true. Anything you can do
    in Minitab can be done in Excel, some much better. It may take 2
    minutes where Minitab can do it in 10 seconds, but back to the
    original question, the guy has student Mini and Excel – he should use
    Excel.

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    #176274

    Ken Feldman
    Participant

    Stan,
    Looks like another contest pitting you on Excel and a Mini expert.  Here are some suggested things you can compete on:
    1.  Setup and analyze a RSM with 6 factors, central composite, half fraction with blocking.
    2.  A nonparametric test for comparing the medians of four groups
    3.  A Z/MR chart for short run data
    4.  Design and analyze a nested gage R&R study
    5.  Calculate the sample size for two proportions with an alpha of .05 and a beta of .10
    6.  Given a set of mystery data, find the best fitting distribution
    7.  Determine whether a statistical difference exists between the mean of 4 groups when the data set is unbalanced and less than full rank.
    Does anyone else have some suggestions as to what type of legitimate statistical analysis can be used to compare Excel with Minitab?
    Of course the criteria for judging will need to be the time it takes to complete the assigned task…time is money…and the ability to create a briefing document in Powerpoint that is coherent and understandable.  Ready to set this up????

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    #176280

    Robert Kluttz
    Member

    Neat tricks with text files?  I suppose I could also do derivatives with a slide rule. 
    Do you have any neat slide rule tricks?

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    #176284

    Mikel
    Member

    You know how to analyze 24 million records with Minitab?I can do it with Excel, and it runs in about the time it takes to go get a
    cup of coffee.

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    #176287

    Mikel
    Member

    6 is a problem, I’ve got my own macros written for every other
    scenario (I did them back in 98 when I had some downtime, just
    seeing if I could do what Minitab could).Let’s get back to original question and my original response. The
    data set is too big for Minitab, what do I do?I’ve got an example file that my new friend Mr. Kluttz might want
    to try for the contest – it has an average of 24 million new entries
    per month and the question is one of exceptions – is there
    anything I haven’t seen before and is there anything I am expecting
    that isn’t there. I can do it in the time it takes to go down to the
    local coffee hangout and get a cup of coffee. I don’t have a clue
    how to do it with Minitab.I’ve already conceded that Excel may be a little harder, we might
    actually have to understand what we are looking for, but Minitab
    zealots are just ignorant. Go understand Excel, Access, JMP,
    Witness, Raptor, … There is a whole world out there of some great
    stuff.How about that OC curve Jsev607 is looking for. Can you do that in
    Minitab? It’s a breeze in Excel. Oh yea, I forgot, 99% of BB’s don’t
    know what an OC curve is. Oh and a lot of the great functionality in Minitab? I wonder where
    that came from?

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    #176288

    Ken Feldman
    Participant

    “Oh and a lot of the great functionality in Minitab? I wonder where that came from?”
    I know, it was you!!!!  You and Gore first invented the Internet so we could have a isicksigma forum and then created Minitab so we could argue about whether Excel or Mini is better.  Your downfall was when you hired Brandon to sell the product for you which is why you are so upset with him.  You could have made enough money to retire to a big mansion on a couple of nice acres in Michigan with a creek running through it.  You could let your dog run loose and the outbuildings could hold our boats, sports cars and other toys.  Life would have been good except for that nasty ole Brandon.  Anyway, thanks for writing the Recovery Act for Bush et al..  Another bad sell job otherwise it might have passed.  Send my hugs to Sara next time you see her.

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    #176293

    Mikel
    Member

    Hey chill, it wasn’t me or Gore that I had in mind, but people who
    had figured out how to do a lot of this stuff on their own, written
    macros in Minitab and Excel and shared it with the folks at Minitab
    as well as JMP as well as Microsoft. Who paid attention to the Six
    Sigma community – Minitab.That still doesn’t make Minitab the best for everything.Back to the original question and answer. The posters version of
    Minitab will not do what they need. I suggested Excel could do
    whatever they needed – and it can.

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    #176296

    Al
    Participant

    Hey, don’t loop me into this.
    Al Gore
    Ps. Stevo is impressed with the sarcasm.  It painted a very nice picture.

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    #176312

    Craig
    Participant

    If I am a Black Belt, am I not supposed to be able to get to root cause on things more readily than mere mortals? Geez….how hard is it to figure that if you have a student version of software, that it might not have full capabilities? I hope that the req was already placed for the current, fully functional version of minitab or JMP, and Bryan is not fumbling with excel. Won’t minitab or JMP easily pay for itself if used by a black belt on one successful project?
     

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    #176315

    Mikel
    Member

    I made the assumption that this person is a student. It is fairly
    common for students in engineering and Business to be expected to
    take GB training as part of their degree. It is also fairly common for
    the Universities doing this to use the student version of Minitab.And as far as fumbling, in 1% of the time wasted on this thread, I
    could have this done in excel. Where is the fumbling?

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    #176336

    Craig
    Participant

    The fumbling is on the part of the original poster who probably is not as proficient with excel as you are. You hit the nail on the head regarding the version of Minitab in use.
    Two questions:
    How do you know if you could have done this in excel in such a short time when the poster never indicated what “this” is. We don’t even know what analysis he was trying to do. Maybe it was recursive partitioning or something like that.
    Would you design an experiment in excel or would you use Minitab, JMP, or Design Expert?
     

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    #176338

    Mikel
    Member

    Questions –
    1) I can do anything in Excel with the exception of Darth’s distribution ID. I can do many things easier and faster (especially really big files).
    2) I would not but I could. I could also do it by hand (learned DOE from Charles Hicks – I can still do the analysis by hand but wold not do that either). I would not use Minitab for partitioning, I would use JMP (by far superior). I would not use Design Expert for anything.

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    #176340

    Craig
    Participant

    Never heard of Charles Hicks, but I learned from Montgomery. Designing experiments by hand is lots of fun, especially when you are asked to define the alias structure for a 2 7-3  fractional factorial on paper. (One of his PhD students had me do this, not Montogmery). I think I could have proved that I “got it” with a one half fraction instead, but I did burn through lots of lead on that one)
    I use JMP for recursive partitioning also. What’s wrong with design expert?
     

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    #176341

    Mikel
    Member

    Just haven’t ever found a need for it.

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