# Need help on take home exam question

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• #40855

CluelessinChicago
Participant

My Prob & Stats professor found an exam on the internet and absconded with some questions from it. One of which has me stumped. Need help!!!

Bonus (10 points)
A The  woodchuck Person is running with a 80 foot pole at .5 times the speed of light +/- .2c. Will it be able to fit the entire pole in a barn that is 50 feet in length?
What is the probability that it will fit at the high end (.7c)? At the low end (.3c)? What is the probability that it wont fit? Assume normality.
(Hint : Feel free to use the Lorentz Transformations)

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#127613

SmarterThanYou
Member

Why is the person running with the pole? Where is the barn located?
Have you identified all sources of variation?
How do you know your data is normal?
Have you verified your measurement system?
What does the VOC say?
It’s evident from your question that you have no clue what you’re doing.
Go away and don’t post stupid questions again.

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#127616

JJ Lay
Participant

SmartThanYou,
“Be considerate to others. It should go without saying that you should treat others as you would like to be treated. If needed, iSixSigma Community moderators will delete repetitively rude, obnoxious and abusive forum posts. Moderators also have the ability to ban users from posting to the discussion forum entirely, but we hope to never use this functionality.”
JJ Lay
6 Sigma Master Black Belt

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#127619

SmarterThanYou
Member

JJ –
I’m disinclined to accept input from someone who can’t spell my name correctly.
SmarterThanYou (still)

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#127620

CT
Participant

Your traveling at 1/2 the speed of light (4.92126e+008 ft/sec)
with an 80ft pole and the barn is only 50ft. Is the Barn Sqr.? Lets assume yes. Csq=Asq + Bsq  so the barn is only 70.7 ft at its longest point. assuming that you could somehow wedge it in you would still at least 9.3 ft left over. so the answer is no it wont fit in the barn. The probabilities are the same.

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#127621

Participant

At least you gave it a try CT.
SmarterthanYou was afraid,so he threw up a smokescreen.
He is also cheap. He did’nt want to pay Stan the \$5.00 for the answer.

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#127622

HF Chris
Participant

Think out of the box, and quickly place the pole at an angle. No standard operating procedures set for placing the pole the length of the barn. Nobody said how you had to do it. Geez…what are they teaching you people.
Chris

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#127623

Nahas
Participant

No it obviously won’t fit on the ground in side the barn. But now you have a new right triangle with the base of 70.7 ft. If the barn is 37 ft high, however, the pole will fit. The sides of the triangle are 37, 70, and 80 (roughly, I don’t have a calculator). I don’t know if this question was posted as a joke or not, but what the heck. Is the speeed of light thrown in there just to throw you off?

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#127626

HF Chris
Participant

The pole is flexible..it will fit. Go look at the original post that this was stolen from earlier today. These are like questions people ask everyday. They want an answer, don’t know what they have, and don’t give all the information needed to answer, and what they do give often does not fit anyway.
Chris

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#127627

JJ Lay
Participant

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/SR/barn_pole.html
JJ Lay
6 Sigma Master Black Belt

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#127630

SmarterThanYou
Member

Untrue. I’ll even sell the answers for \$6.00.
Slightly higher price and I can’t guarantee accuracy, but I’ll be nice to you (as long as you pay up front).
A quick analysis of reactions to responses given in this forum will show the true CTQ is not accuracy. It’s actually being “nice” in your response – and I’m all about the customer.

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#127633

DaveS
Participant

Clueless my friend-
It’s all relative!
Go find out about the contraction of lenghts of objects as speeds approach light speed. That’s the hint about Lorentz transformations given.
The pole might fit the barn since it’s lenght cahnges as it goes fadster. Will anyone help you with the matht o see for sure ?
Well; not me,  and that’s a probability of 1.00000
Dave

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#127635

Szentannai
Member

Hi,
L=L0*SQRT(1-(v/c)**2). where L is the length at speed v, L0 is the length at rest, v is the velocity of the object and c is the speed of light.
From here on it should  be pretty easy .
Regards
Sandor

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#127638

HF Chris
Participant

Like I said: “There can be no such thing as a rigid rod in relativity so the trailing end will not stop immediately and the rod will be compressed beyond the amount it was Lorentz contracted.  If it does not explode under the strain and it is sufficiently elastic it will come to rest and start to spring back to its natural shape but since it is too big for the barn the other end is now going to crash into the back door and the rod will be trapped in a compressed state inside the barn.”
Things aren’t always what they look like if you don’t understand the tool.
Chris

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#127639

CT
Participant

ummmmmmmmmmm Star Trek here we come.

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#127640

Buzz Lightyear
Participant

Using the Lorentz Transformation, the Length contraction is given by :
L = L initial /Gamma  where Gamma = sq rt (1 (v^2 / c^2)).
For v = .3c , Pole contraction is .954 * L initial = 76.32
For v = .5 c, .866 * L initial = 69.28
For v = .7c,  .714 * L initial = 57.12
Therefore for a straight in shot , the pole will not fit.
For an off angle shot, where diagonal is 70.71 , the pole will fit at greater than or equal to .5c.

Therefore the probability that it wont fit, dead on, assuming normality is derived from the following :

mean +/- 3 sigma

Speed

Contraction

.5 + / -.2 c

Z value

.3c

76.32

2.346666666667

3

.5c

69.28

0

.7c

57.12

4.053333333333

3

.785c

49.52

4.875

Extrapolation-

P (Failure)

P (Success)

4.8

0.999999205647

4.9

0.999999520130

4.85

0.999999362889

4.875

0.999999441510

0.000000558490

0.558490328

The probability that it wont fit is 0.999999441510

The probability that it will fit given the original parameters is .56 times out of a
million. The limiting value on the speed would be .785 c.

The length of any object in a moving frame will appear foreshortened in the direction of motion, or contracted. The amount of contraction can be calculated from the Lorentz transformation. The length is maximum in the frame in which the object is at rest.
Now,

The rest mass increase of the runner is m = m initial / Gamma. In the runners frame of reference,
If initial mass of runner is 180# ,
For v = .3c , Mass increase is 1.048 * m initial = 188.64, or instantaneous gain of 8.6 #
For v = .5 c, 1.155 * m initial = 207.9, or instantaneous gain of 27.9 #
For v = .7c,  1.400 * m initial =  252, or instantaneous gain of 63.4 #
He probably has a heart attack or his chest cavity is crushed under the instantaneous gain. This also lends to the fact that he may never make it.

In the observers frame of reference, at T = 1:00 pm he starts observing,
The time dilation is T = T initial * Gamma.
For v = .3c , Time decrease is 1.048 * T initial . To the runner, his clock registers a time of 3 minutes and 28 seconds earlier that the observers.
For v = .5 c, 1.155 * T initial. 9 minutes and 30 seconds
For v = .7c, 1.400 *  T initial. 24 minutes
For v=.785c, 1.6142 *  T initial. 37 minutes and  minutes and 25 seconds.
This lends to the fact that whether or not he makes it, the observer will never see it.

A clock in a moving frame will be seen to be running slow, or “dilated” according to the Lorentz transformation. The time will always be shortest as measured in its rest frame. The time measured in the frame in which the clock is at rest is called the “proper time”.

The Bull Composite index (BS as measured with Bullfighter) of this response is : 9.1 which is near excellent. You should be able to understand this.
On the Flesch scale :
Diagnosis: Mostly clear, with some unnecessarily long words and sentences. You get to the point, although with an occasional detour. Most educated readers will navigate the text with no difficulty. Longer words and sentences appear occasionally.

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#127641

Buzz Lightyear
Participant

Incidently clueless, NO ZIGGY BELT FOR YOU!

https://www.isixsigma.com/forum/showmessage.asp?messageID=80332

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#127649

Noble Experiment
Participant

If a person is running with an 80 foot pole at .5 the speed of light at a barn that is 50 foot in length. Wouldn’t that person destroy that light pole
I think you need LiveJournal to post this question instead of SixSigma. Where’s the Design of Experiments to create a FMEA probability of this pole not fitting on the barn?
Have you met this chick on LNC who asked me 60 in = what in feet two years ago? she likes le tigre, fischerspooner and still listens to electroclash at syntheic while working at a Silver Lake Records Store to fill in a bar tab. I think she’s on myspace but she still posts dumb stuff on her LiveJournal. Then Again, I think all of us SixSigma Belts realize we’re too smart to have a LiveJournal because we prefer to listen to Dave Matthews instead of The Faint.
Personally I think it’s better to use the Galiean Transformation of fitting an 80 foot pole on a 50 ft length barn instead of the lorentz transformations cos the GT moves in w/rt to velocity, but in my days of MOC, I really shouldn’t touch this thread with a 10 foot pole.
:-D

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#127651

Buzz Lightyear
Participant

Nothing was said about what the pole was made of. Perhaps that should be included in your DOE. Yet the problem with the DOE concept is that by the time you get around to observing the trials and taking measurements, it happened anywhere from 3 minutes to a half hour ago. You missed it!
What data will you record now? How do you know that the data is unbiased? eg How do you know that the runner didnt destroy the pole with a hammer when he was done with the trial?
At what point will the pole be observed damaged?
As you go faster and faster , length decreases , mass increases and eventually both the pole and the runner become a singularity.

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#127686

Mikel
Member

Sandor,
Good to hear from you. Still hanging at NG and doing software?

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#127692

Gourishankar
Participant

Buzz
I think very few understood the significance of the question ( worst being smarterthanyou ) . Thnx. for the recap on Theory of Rel.  & Lorentz contraction – a long forgotten topic .I  wonder if this has any relevance /application in the Six Sigma world . However , I do remember the following  about Theory of Rel. & the Lorentz contraction :
“There was a lady called Miss Bright,
Who could travel faster than light
One day , she departed in an Eistienian Way
And returned home the previous night !!”
And
“There was a man called Mr. Frisk,
Who was exceedingly brisk,
So fast was his action – The Lorentz Contraction”
Changed his rapier to a disk “
Regards
Gourishankar

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#127708

Szentannai
Member

Hi,
in fact I’m an MBB now in GE Healthcare, moving slowly towards certification, but still doing mostly SW. .
Regards
Sandor

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#127709

Buzz Lightyear
Participant

I don’t think it has any applications either. I think it was meant as a joke and posted with other bizarre questions by gooseneck in the”Ziggy Belt” exam. It did make one think however about the physical and logical aspects in problem solving,outside of the statistical gruntwork.
I love the little “ditty” you provided!

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#127711

SmarterThanYou
Member

So did the satire get very subtle, or did  some posters really take the opportunity to try and prove how smart they are?
For the spoof-impaired, a short recap: Clueless was making fun of posters who ask irrelevant questions or try to get an answer to a class assignment. I was making fun of posters who respond to questions (even specific and relevant) by asking irrelevant questions. Other respondees seemed to be making fun of those who try to prove how smart they are.
And then one poster was concerned that we had missed the significance of the question????

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#127712

Buzz Lightyear
Participant

ps.  Its 6:30 in the morning. I havent had my first cup of coffee,therefore my brain has not caught up with my body yet. The last posting was intended for Gourishankar.
Also, I knew that when I got into this six sigma business that I would become driven . You guys and gals out there that are posting an 2:00 am etc are a little bit beyond the boundary of being driven.

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#127713

Participant

Yeah Homies! Whuts the matta! The “900” lines are all tied up?
Hey Smarterthan You, I think there may be a reason why Buzz is named Buzz! But he’s cool!
Hey Buzz! You better get right on that cup of coffee!

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#127714

Eddie
Participant

I have recently become a black belt and don`t recall any of this ‘nonsense’ in the material so you could say I`m ‘duller than you’.However, there are a few websites that may be able to furnish one with the answer :
physicsprofessors.com
I.am.an.anorak.com
trainspottersclub.com
Ineed to get out more.com
good luck!

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#127715

Szentannai
Member

Hi,
it’s only a matter of being in the right (or wrong) time-zone :-))).
Regards
Sandor

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#127716

Participant

Hey Eddie, welcome aboard. Around here you can’t afford to let your underwear get too tight. With all the brain cells bouncing around the inside of everyones head over some of the questions posted here , It just seems natural that every now and then that someone needs to perform a self induced lobotamy to let some of the pressure out. If you don’t, youll end up in the ozone like Sandor says.

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#127717

Eddie
Participant

Nice to be on board too….look forward to lots more forums with you guys in the US ( I`m from Wales UK ).   Oops…..must go it`s Friday 1pm and it`s finishing time.

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#127728

CT
Participant

I think its only fair to assume the runner carrying the pole was on steriods, therefore this post shouldnt be allowed.

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