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New to greenbelt and given an impossible project

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  • #52647

    Crevan
    Participant

    I recently started my greenbelt classes at work and was given a project to fix “floppiness” in nonwoven material. Sounds like an easy fix maybe, but my hang up is how do I measure it? From what I understand there isn’t any known method of measuring it.
    “Floppiness” is when you unroll some material and the center lays flat but the edges look like they have been scalloped or where the material is processing through the machines the center of the fabric will be tight but the edges hanging down causing wrinkling and other quality problems.
    So any ideas on where to begin?

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    #185469

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    Crevan,
    Flatness in metal has been measured for decades (actually if it is flat there isn’t anything to measure – you measure how unflat it is). Just because the textile industry doesn’t do it doesn’t mean it can’t be done. This is what people mean when they tell you to think outside the box.
    Just my opinion.

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    #185470

    Kevin Peters
    Participant

    Crevan:Following up on the previous post, in the steel industry edge drop is referred to as Gamma. There is a book on the subject: High-quality steel rolling: theory and practice
    By Vladimir B. GinzburgIf you do a Google search on the book you will probably be able to view some of the context on the subject.Hope this helps.

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    #185476

    Jered Horn
    Participant

    Perhaps it can be as simple as stopping the line,
    placing a weight at multiple fixed locations on the
    web and measuring the distance to the floor. That
    would at least give you a measurable profile of what
    you described as “floppiness”. I would guess
    repeatability and reproducibility of that type of
    rough measurement would be a challenge, so try not
    to be too precise with your measurements. Beyond
    that, I know there are electronic web-measurement
    instruments out there. Not cheap, though.Back to the “distance to the floor” idea…build a
    stand with a flat surface mounted at a known height
    (somewhere, say, a couple inches lower than your
    nominal web height. Then, take your profile
    measurements starting from the mounted surface to
    the bottom of the web.By the way, this is just thinking out loud. Kind of
    like the brainstorming when you get a team of people
    together. No idea is a bad idea. Just throw out
    anything that comes to mind.Hope that helps.

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    #185480

    Pal
    Participant

    So perhaps I’m missing something here. Wouldn’t flop be best defined by what your customer is asking for? From the nature of the project, can we assume someone is complaining that the non-woven is too floppy? My nature would be to inquire: “what do you mean it’s too floppy?” The response would lead to a definition of floppiness, perhaps an insightful understanding of what the ramifications of extra-floppy material are, how to measure the material’s flop so as to understand if the material is too floppy, etc.

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    #185483

    Darth
    Participant

    Carnell….obviously you missed the whole thread about “thinking outside the box”. Don’t start that up again!!!PS. Great chatting with you last evening.

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    #185484

    Robert S
    Member

    Pal is putting you on the right track. Sounds as if you have not fully developed your Problem Statement and subsequent Objective Statement. Be specific about what you are trying to fix and why then you can move to what you need to measure & how. As Pal said, state why floppy is a problem first…. if, in fact, it is the problem.

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    #185485

    Crevan
    Participant

    First off thanks for the ideals on the measurement methods.
    In reply to post 158869, yes floppiness has been the source of several complaints from our customers. I haven’t gotten all the data together yet but as of now I have around $150,000 (YTD) in claims and it continues to grow the more I research it. I am aware of the ramifications of floppiness because in several instances we are our own customer. For our process we don’t want any floppiness and I inquired about the customer needs and they don’t want any also.
    In reply to post 158874, I had some concerns with my charter and you brought up some good points. Instead of saying floppy is a problem I am going to redo it and explain why it is a problem. I’m sure floppiness is only a symptom and not the root cause, hopefully when I get into the later phases I will learn more about the true root cause.
    Thank you all for the help you’ve given me a lot of good ideas..

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    #185494

    Velasquez
    Participant

    Hi Crevan,
    Sounds like you have your work cut out!.
    Pal has hit the nail right on the head with his reply though.
    The customer is measuring floppiness (internal or external) then there should be a method available for the measurement of this property.Β Sounds like it may be subjective / categoric at the moment and a few earlier posts have covered some aditional evaluation methods for consideration.Β  Whatever method is chosen, it still needs to be correlated back to the subjective method!.Β 
    I also thought that it was refered to “drape” and related to the ability of a material to drape over the hand etc …
    Hope this helps and good luck,
    Martin.

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    #185504

    Big Al
    Participant

    Crevan.Β  Some great suggestions on your charter and establishing customer requirements.Β  Coming at it from a different direction, though, I would question the level of support you are receving from your organisation – for example the role and contribution of the project sponsor, the motivation of theΒ person/people/team who assigned you this project and the availability of coaching/project support.Β  I am always keen to ensure that any BB’s or GB’s I launch are set up for success not just “set up”.Β  I am not suggesting that GB’s should get easy projects, however you should not feel as if you’re on your own.Β  My advice, in addition to the comments already made,Β would be to go back to your sponsor and process improvement leadership and engage them to help you.Β  Your success should be their success!Β Β 

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    #185505

    Tim Stasak
    Member

    Hi Crevan,
    I have been in the printing industry for a long time and one of the substrates we printed was non-woven materials. Have you investigated and observed the issues first hand?
    I’m guessing that “floppiness”Β may refer toΒ the handling and processing of the material on the customer’s equipment. If the tension of the material is very low as it travels through the equipment it can cause problems. The material may droop, sag or drag during its travel.
    I hope this helps.
    Tim
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