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OEE calculation

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  • #53109

    Lim BT
    Participant

    Hi experts, i got questions regarding the OEE on theΒ machines i am working on and need some advice from here.
    There are 2 equipments on the machine and are interconnected. Let name it equip. A and B. Equip. A is converting raw material into parts and then transfer to equip. B for packaging. If equip A is breakdown, then equip B will not have any parts to pack, so it has to stop operating. And if equip B is breakdown then equip A will stop producing any parts.
    IΒ only have the cycle time of the equip A and it is easily available for the computation of the performance. Now the problem is, i dont have any known cycle time for equip B and it is tedious to manually track the cycle time. As for the other 2 components, availability and quality, the data is easily available.
    Can i treat the 2 equipments as one equipment for the calculation of OEE since they are interconnected? or i need to separate it as 2 equipments and has its own OEE? Please advice. Thanks

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    #188068

    Mikel
    Member

    Avoid tedious work at all costs

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    #188070

    MBBinWI
    Participant
    #188072

    zippo
    Member

    excellent very informative answer Stan as usual
    Since the 2 machines are dependent on one another they should be considered as 1.Β  You would base your OEE calculation off of the constraining machine cycle time.Β  If machine B can keep pace with machine A then you do not need to know the cycle time of machine B.

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    #188078

    Mikel
    Member

    Zippy,Thank you. I thought it was up to my usual high standards as well.The statement ” i dont have any known cycle time for equip B and it is
    tedious to manually track the cycle time” doesn’t deserve anything
    other than a response like mine. Let’s see – stop watch, 10 -15
    minutes tops and I know the cycle time. That’s oh so tedious. Boo hoo, this SSBB stuff takes so much work.

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    #188089

    zippo
    Member

    also seems like you enjoy jabbing people rather than give insightful answers OH BOO HOO I have to think of something intelligent to say.Β  It’s easier to just give stupid remarks

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    #188090

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    zippo,
    You need to get together with Kev and the two of you go off to some corner and spend a couple hours complaining to each other how the world, Stan, etc are so much less enlightened than you two and how much better we would all be if we were just like you.
    The original post goes back to the latest string on TQM. Pointless pontification – that has been qualities curse for at least the last 25 years. That is why the quality departments are generally ignored.
    If you like the original post, the three of you can go find a corner.
    Just my opinion

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    #188091

    zippo
    Member

    Mike
    Just my opinion.Β  But your opinion and 1 dollar will buy me a candy bar.Β  So if you do the math and a candy bar is wirth 1 dollar what does that make your opinion worth.Β  See if you can do some six sigma statistics on that one.Β  Let me know what you come up with.

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    #188092

    Darth
    Participant

    “wirth a dollar”??? What part of the cuntry are you from Bubba??

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    #188093

    Mikel
    Member

    ZippyIt’s not that I enjoy jabbing (it is fun though), I give people what
    they deserve.I suspect this fool is looking for homework help, and if so, if might
    take five minutes to find the answer.If this is real and they are worried about not being handed an
    answer…Well, boo hoo.

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    #188094

    Vallee
    Participant

    Why does it always have to be Bubba? Why can’t it be Oscar or
    Hethro?HF Chris Vallee

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    #188095

    Vallee
    Participant

    So I don’t need to break down process B and track it because it is
    dependent on A…mmmmm Just combine them? I can add the known value of process A and the
    unknown value of process A and get what?

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    #188096

    Vallee
    Participant

    Correction… add known value of A to “UNKNOWN” value of B and get what?

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    #188097

    Mikel
    Member
    #188098

    clb1
    Participant

    “add known value of A to “UNKNOWN” value of B and get what?”….Ummmmm the first part of a 9th grade algebra word problem?????
    :-)

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    #188101

    Vallee
    Participant

    Oh darn algebra … but then I would also have to know more about
    the cycle time or I will be stuck with a lot more other letters like c,
    d , e and f. Can I combine that too?: 0It just bothers me when people will not look at a process because
    it is too much work. Often this is the place with the most
    variability. It is also frustrating when someone advises someone to
    ignore the tedious process because it appears that it might not be
    constraining. Most people should understand that the constraining process is
    dynamic and is easily replaced by other parts of the process. My hope is that if this was a real question and not homework… the
    person will stop and do what is right.HF Chris Vallee

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    #188102

    Mikel
    Member

    He’s just pointing out how dumb Robert’s, oh I mean Zippy’s, answer
    is.

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    #188103

    Vallee
    Participant

    Yep. Someone had to step up for Bubba… I was hoping Z… would step
    up and explain where the missing values needed to come from and
    what trigger you could go by to decide what was constraining based
    on the original post.HF Chris Vallee

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    #188104

    MBBinWI
    Participant

    Bubba:Β  barefoot, unrefined, beer belly, a$$hole.Β  Seems to fit far as I can tell.

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    #188105

    MBBinWI
    Participant

    Actually, why should we waste all our time/effort looking at all these intermediate steps, they’re just pass through anyway.Β  Let’s just look at what’s coming out the back end, that should tell us all we need to know.

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    #188106

    MBBinWI
    Participant

    Hey, don’t besmirch Zippy the Pinhead by equating him with this zippy.

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    #188107

    Vallee
    Participant

    Noooo… I was defending the real “Bubba” not the Z…. When Bubba
    has to pull your vehicle out of a ditch with his truck and tow chain,
    you start to be thankful. Plus I grew up in the south and have been to a lot of places where the
    people needed a lot more help. ; )

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    #188108

    Vallee
    Participant

    Could not tell you at this point to or not to look at this level because
    no one has given enough facts to tell me what is happening. Leaving
    the data blank and not understanding data does not mean there is or
    is not a problem.The original question was about OEE. If I find a problem, I would go
    to the intermediate steps and find the root causes and fix the problem
    to reduce the variability.

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    #188109

    MBBinWI
    Participant

    Upon further review, Brother Darth was referring to Bubba, not bubba.Β  My apologies to all honorable Bubba’s out there.Β  No disrespect was intended.
    For bubba (zippy, you know who you are) the original post still stands.

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    #188110

    Darth
    Participant

    MBBinWI, reread my post about Bubba. I crack myself up.

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    #188111

    MBBinWI
    Participant

    wasn’t going to go there, thought that my post was pushing it as it was.

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    #188114

    zippo
    Member

    Same part as the 3 stooges, Stan, Darth and MBBinWI

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    #188116

    Mikel
    Member

    Not trueDarth is from the NY part of Cuba and MBB is from the mid-south
    part of Canada.

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    #188118

    zippo
    Member

    well that pretty much says it all.Β  Now I understand the stupidity and sarcasm in all of the answers and lack of constructive advice

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    #188119

    Mikel
    Member

    Now, what explains the stupidity and sarcasm in all of the answers
    and lack of constructive advice in all of your posts?

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    #188120

    Darth
    Participant

    The good news is that while he is being Zippy he can’t also be Kev.

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    #188121

    Vallee
    Participant

    Z… ,To get it back to a constructive response, what is your reasoning
    behind telling the poster to ignore process B? If the Process is Tedious and possibly highly variable, how would
    you segregate this after combining A and B? How would you segregate other variability from other process that
    would have also been summed into your previous equation?You had a chance to respond earlier but did not so i ask again.
    Maybe I can learn something here if there is proper logic.

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    #188125

    zippo
    Member

    please reread the response.Β  I did not tell him to ignore process B but to see which one was the constraint.Β  If process A and B are tied directly together and process B is only used with Process A and if process A was the gating operation then process B could be ignored.Β  However if process B is the gating operation then it would need to be time studied.

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    #188127

    Vallee
    Participant

    Does not matter which one is the gated process because they are
    serial and must both be accomplished for the end goal. If A stops
    the process then you are in trouble. If B stops the process you are
    in trouble. He wanted to track OEE yet he does not want to track the one
    process because it is too tedious? So you recommended
    combining it with a missing value from B. So when it goes astray,
    did B affect A or A affect B? Which one are you going to fix?Do the math, it is not 90% plus another percentage, it is serial and
    a multiplication problem.. 90% x another percentage. He does not know what the constraining process is because he has
    not measured it. I appreciate the reply but fail to see the logic.

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    #188132

    zippo
    Member

    OK let me see if I can explain this in another way.Β  Each machine is dependent on the other.Β  If 1 goes down the other does not run.Β  No where in his post does he say that one or the other is a constraint so we have to assume that the cycle times are equal.Β  If we look at what goes into an OEE calculation we have several parts.
    1. Base hours.Β  This would be the same for both machines.Β  You need to look at these machines as if they were a 2 step die or transfer station where 1 feeds the other.Β  Now if A is run on multiple shifts and B is not then you need B’s cycle time otherwise it’s not needed
    2. Availability.Β  This may differ slightly depending on the setup time, maintenence required.Β  These would be the main major differences between the 2 machines and times should be easy to obtain for each
    3. Performance.Β  If we assume that B can keep up with A then we just need the cycle time for A.Β  If not and we see parts piling up in front of B then we need the cycle time for B.
    Quality Should be easy to get what is the volume of rejects off each?

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    #188134

    Vallee
    Participant

    Key word…. assume, assume, assume!If the machines are doing separate tasks and only one is dependent
    because it is serial, do not assume anything.When B breaks down and is not available, does that impact the
    availability of A in its OEE assessment… NO.

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    #188135

    zippo
    Member

    it most certainly does.Β  If you read his post if B breaks down A stops.Β  We had a very similar setup where we tied 3 machines together connected by conveyor.Β  All 3 cycle times were paced by the first machine.Β  However if 1 anyone broke down it directly affected the others

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    #188136

    Vallee
    Participant

    If equip A is breakdown, then equip B will not have any parts to
    pack, so it has to stop operating. And if equip B is breakdown then
    equip A will stop producing any parts.Read it again. It will not have any parts to pack and so it has to
    stop operating. So B is available and A is not if A breaks down. Both machines do different activities and should be counted
    separately. Each machine will have parts that break down
    differently with different life cycles. Down time repairs for A may
    be different than down time to repair B. B packs parts so it will
    need raw material to use for packaging and can become
    unavailable when out.So you still want to assume it has equal cycle time? Your transmission on your car depends on your motor to turn, your
    motor needs gas and air… let’s count that as one machine too.

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    #188137

    Vallee
    Participant

    Lim BT,I do not facilitate six sigma projects anymore but spend my days
    teaching root cause analysis and facilitating investigations from
    fatalities to parts failure. The decision is yours but I personally would not skip measuring
    process B. See my responses below. The minute you assume.. well
    you know the answer to that.Respectfully,HF Chris Valleefeel free to look up my posts in the past to see that I don’t attempt
    to mislead anyone and give decent advice. I also ask when I am
    over my head.

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    #188138

    Mikel
    Member

    Zippy,Wow, signs of intelligence – very good.You said – “Quality Should be easy to get what is the volume of rejects
    off each?” – what if this guy thinks it’s tedious and doesn’t want to do
    it.

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    #188139

    Vallee
    Participant

    Just Assume!

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    #188140

    Darth
    Participant

    “feel free to look up my posts in the past to see that I don’t attempt to mislead anyone and give decent advice. I also ask when I am over my head.”You don’t have to justify yourself to him. While you don’t “attempt to mislead” you do a fine job doing it by accident. “decent advice” is in the eye of the beholder.Personally I think you are a great contributor regardless of what Stan says about you in private.

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    #188142

    Vallee
    Participant

    …more Kremlins! People scared to post their real name.

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    #188143

    Darth
    Participant

    Darth is Darth except when one of those wannabes misappropriates my name. If you do a search for Darth you will see thousands upon thousands of helpful, witty and brilliantly crafted posts and certainly deserving of the award this year instead of those pretenders Carnell and Stan.

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    #188145

    Mikel
    Member

    Hey, I say it about in public as well. Was thinking about getting a
    billboard on I-75 in Cincy with what I think on it as well.

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    #188146

    Vallee
    Participant

    As long as I am in the billboard with Bubba or Hethro…. no Zippy
    though. You and Darth can be in the background.

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    #188148

    Mikel
    Member

    In the background to a good FA guy? Sure – there aren’t that many.

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    #188154

    MBBinWI
    Participant

    Hey, I got an invite for most prolific poster (or was that poser?Β  No, that would be Z).

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    #188171

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    Dr. Darth von Trapp,
    You have obviously made your trip and are suffering from a lack of oxygen.
    Regards

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    #188173

    Darth
    Participant

    Has not been a good trip so far. Had to fly out of the airport north of where I live. Lines were pretty long. Jetway in PHL got stuck so we just got off the plane in time. Frankfurt parked us in a remote spot which means air stairs, then a trudge through the snow and a bus to the terminal. There I found my next flight canceled because of all the snow. Instead they put me on a 2.5 hour train ride to my final destination. Unfortunately my luggage remains in Frankfurt and I am not sure when we will be reunited. Travel sucks and all of you that think the life of the consultant is exotic, it ain’t.

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    #188175

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    Darth,
    I knew it had to be something significant to get you so delusional that you thought you would beat out Stan and me for the award.
    A year a go it was an 11 day trip, 30,000 miles, 4 continents, 5 countriesΒ and my luggage disappeaered on day one in Rome and showed up in San Antonio the day after I got back and the suitcase was full of water. After a year still haven’t had a phone call back from Thai Air about the clothes that were destroyed. Great customer focus.Β Quite the sexy lifestyle. Still not willing to give it up.
    Regards

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    #188178

    MBBinWI
    Participant

    Too bad you’re in Germany.Β  If it was France, you’d be fitting right in.

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    #188191

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    He isn’t in either of them.

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    #188215

    zippo
    Member

    What you fail to observe from your narrow point of view is that I am answering the question based on the information given.Β  Thus I have to make some assumptions.Β  Since both machines are directly dependent on one another the availability of one cannot be more than the availability of the other

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    #188229

    Reade
    Participant

    Is that how you solve all problems presented to you? Take what you’re given, make assumptions about the rest, and voila – best solution achieved?

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    #188230

    MBBinWI
    Participant

    Touche!

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    #188231

    Vallee
    Participant

    So we have two different machines and we would lower the
    effectiveness of one based on the other being a piece of junk? It is
    not narrow mindedness, it is understanding the business.Which machine costs the most? Which machine breaks down the
    most? Which machine takes more downtime to repair? Which
    machine can produce more and is held back by the other? … oh it
    doesn’t matter when we can not aggregate the data, right? All rational is based on logic… just some logic needs a little help
    and you do it with facts not assumptions.

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    #188241

    zippo
    Member

    The fact is the 2 machines are joined at the hip.Β 
    The fact is no where did he say machine B was used for anything else other than to package product from machine B.Β 
    The fact is if one breaks down they both go down.Β 
    The fact is whoever purchased these machines to be joined as such and not used for anything else should be fired
    AND THAT’S THE FACTSΒ 

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    #188242

    Vallee
    Participant

    Last response and then it is no use to continue.You have a car I hope. There are different major components on
    the car that are joined together. The car is used to get from point
    a to b. Sound familiar? Now do you change and inspect all the components at the same
    interval.. no. Why ? Because they all have their own OEE and should be treated as
    such. My transmission is available regardless if the motor craps
    out. So if you ignore what is happening in process B and you do not
    know the efficiency of process B because it is too tedious you can’t
    even track the efficiency of A + B because you chose to ignore it. So the next time you car needs a tune-up make sure you replace
    all the parts too because it is one machine and should be treated
    as such according to your logic.

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    #188250

    zippo
    Member

    when you have been doing things as long as I have you will come to realize that data is not always available.Β  In some cases just to get the issues out you need to make some assumptions.Β  Sometimes they will lead to answers, data etc sometimes not.Β  Don’t jump in on a conversation with a double edged comment or we may make the assumption that you don’t know what you are talking about.

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    #188253

    GB
    Participant

    What a ridiculous statement, Zippo…If you can’t “find” data, it’s because you are being lazy. If a measurement, or dp isn’t existant, than what do you do? YOU INSTITUTE A MEANINGFUL METRIC.Use some rigor for Pete’s sake, Zippy-dippy…

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    #188266

    MBBinWI
    Participant

    Based on your logic, all serial elements in a system should then be treated as one element, as any one of them will bring the system processing to a halt.Β  That’s non-sense.

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    #188268

    Taylor
    Participant

    Zippy, Zippy, Zippy
    Oh my, you are a hopeless cause. You really have no idea the purpose of OEE do you.
    Accounting for downtime and assigning cause regardless of the system dependancy is the purpose. Each unit has its own OEE and assignable downtime to which project Y’s can be born.
    It is also apparent that you have little understanding of lean concepts forΒ  packaging equipment.
    How about next time you have a thought, keep it to yourself.

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    #188275

    zippo
    Member

    It really is tough trying to educate the ignorant.Β  I’ll look for some insightful replies form you in the future other than the nonsense that you continue to post.

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    #188280

    Taylor
    Participant

    Ok, lets try this for insightful. Information below is straight from the OEE web site, with my comments added
    OEE is a “best practices” way to monitor and improve the efficiency of your manufacturing processes (i.e. machines, manufacturing cells, assembly lines).Β  So would you consider assembly lines, “attached at the hip” process.
    Availability takes into account Down Time Loss, which includes any Events that stop planned production for an appreciable length of time (usually several minutes – long enough to log as a trackable Event). Examples include equipment failures, material shortages, and changeover time. Changeover time is included in OEE analysis, since it is a form of down time. While it may not be possible to eliminate changeover time, in most cases it can be reduced. The remaining available time is called Operating Time. ANY EVENTS, MATERIAL SHORTAGES, any of this starting to sink in? OEE is only as effective as the down time codes you assign the equipment. In the original post, he said that the machine B was dependent on Machine A feeding it. This may or may not be true, If machine A was running at optimum rate could machine B keep up, or is machine B the deciding cycle time, if it is then the availability of A is directly affected by B. These are very complex problems and require a lot of time to understand the interactions between A and B. For example, How many stops a day does Machine A have that do not affect Machine B, Operator ineffeciency etc. Machine A may have 25 different possible down time codes, and Machine B may only have 5 of but both affect the other.
    If have seen many guys like you come and go and I’m sure its just a matter of time before you get your feelings hurt and run on down the road. It amazes that you have 5+ very experienced people in the field of manufacturing all telling you that you are blatenly wrong, yet you continue with the banter and up-staging.
    When you say: “When you been around as long as I have”, does that mean you are one of those guys that just refuses any change and anything other than the way you have done in the past is wrong?

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