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  • #50787

    Van Loon
    Participant

    Do you have experience with the training material from OpenSourceSixSigma ?
    Jan

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    #175025

    Mikel
    Member

    Yes, it is just as bad as what you get from most consultants and on-
    line courses.

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    #175026

    Van Loon
    Participant

    There is no good training material out there, at all ?
    The training material should not stand alone, I was interested in the
    quality of the material, maby giving the presentation a tweak,
    is less costly than developing traing material from scratch.
    Jan

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    #175030

    Geoffrey
    Participant

    Take a look at SkillSoft’s Six Sigma courses. I used them to great benefit as did some experienced and inexperienced teams with whom I work.

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    #175033

    Brandon
    Participant

    Jan, disregard Stan’s comment. He has no idea. He is bashing it because…well, that’s what he does. According to him all but a handful of people are idiots and everybody else’s products and services are garbage. Therefore his input means very little.

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    #175048

    JackT
    Participant

    If you’ve ever seen the open source material, you’d agree with Stan on this point.  You get what you pay for….

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    #175052

    Brandon
    Participant

    And which competitor do you work for?
    Or is this really Stan posting under a different name (since in the last 3 years I’ve never seen a JackT post and all of a sudden he shows up with this comment)? Come on…who are you really?

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    #175053

    Mikel
    Member

    Brandon honey,I got the open source stuff within a day of being available and it is
    nothing special and looks a lot like what I had at Allied in 1995.Why don’t you give full disclosure and admit you are pimping your
    son’s crap?Go sell some ice. I am not the other poster by the way.

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    #175054

    Brandon
    Participant

    Yes, I know you bought it. And you know it’s origin. However, it has changed significantly since then (in presentation only; DMAIC is DMAIC)….has yours?
    You also know I am familiar with one of the top 20 (at least they used to be) boutique training firm’s material. I, subsequently, have seen the materials of two others – one in CO and another in Tempe, AZ. OSSS stuff is like men among boys compared to the three I have seen and used.
    So, I’ll say it again…show me a post where I “promote” OSSS where it is not directly responsive to the poster’s query. Secondly, you are not iSixSigma’s appointed censor…leave that to them. Thirdly, show me any post of yours where you allow that anyone other than your handful of buddies is anything but an idiot. Finally, JackT is likely not you…I was remiss in saying that; more a joke than a belief it was you. However, he is not JackT. He is someone on here who wants to hide his regular identity…a real sleaze ball.

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    #175055

    I’Anson
    Participant

    Hi Jan
    I have purchased the training material from OSS and I find it very useful.
    As you said that there are no perfectly good trainiing materiials, the OSS training modules will definitely be of great help if you don’t want to develop one right from scratch, but just do some tweaking on it. It is available for just around $100 which I don’t think is a big deal and it is available in editable ppt slides. 
    I am using the OSS module as a base to develop our own training . modules. It has also been a very useful reference material for me in identifying the right tools to be used during different phases of an Improvement project.
    Hope this helps
    Thanks and regards
    Daniel
     
     

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    #175057

    Michael Mead
    Participant

    Brandon, are you somehow responsible for that set of PP slides?
    I have not seen them, and I design training material for a living now. I can say that $100 does not go far in developing a nice presentation. Now you guys have me interested. Who said the slides can be edited? Is that right?
    Sounds good to me. I am sure there are others out there, too.  Maybe some are better, but golly, unless you are putting out misinformation (I doubt that.) it sounds like a good value to me…even if it only points people in the right direction. 

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    #175061

    Mikel
    Member

    Telling Jan to disregard my post is not promoting?I told her the truth – the open source stuff is about the same as
    the rest – only cheap and promoting the idea that if you have a set
    of slides you can teach something you probably don’t really
    understand.The slides are not important, the teachers knowledge is. I can do a
    better job with a couple of books and working with the people than
    99% of the things being offered.I think it’s funny that some think slides are reference material.

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    #175074

    Ken Feldman
    Participant

    I have the feeling that a “teach off” is in the making. We start with 20 random students and then have Brandon’s son teach the class using his materials and Stan using his books. We do a pretest and post test to see which format produces the best recall and understanding. We could also toss in Moresteam’s online training. In addition to the exam scores, we will allow the audience to vote on which they like best. Vinny will create a complex and unproven formula to come to a final score. All Chinese raters will be excluded from scoring since they are biased. We could hold the contest in the usual spot in AZ.

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    #175076

    GB
    Participant

    This is troubling…
    I don’t have a horse in this race, but vitriol and quality issues aside, I think some due diligence is in order.
    Brandon, are you affiliated with the material in any way?
    If you are, just say so in the interests of disclosure.   If you are, it’s no big deal to me, but potential Customer’s should know concretely, one way, or the other.
    my $0.02

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    #175077

    Brandon
    Participant

    Wow, a bunch of stuff on the table, huh?First, HB, yes I work with OSSS; among other things.Second – Jan asked – do you have experience with OSSS products? Stan was the first to respond saying – yes, it’s as lousy as anybody else’s….which I guess is the same as saying it is as good as anybody else’s. Thank you Stan.Its origins are in the material used at major corporate deployments worldwide….but then, what DMAIC material doesn’t have its origins from the same seed. As I said DMAIC is DMAIC….it’s a commodity now. The coursework that is. Where Stan and I do not disagree is that the material does not teach itself just as a book does not read itself to you.Any other questions?

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    #175078

    Mikel
    Member

    Wow, I’ve been right all this time – you owe me an apology. I like you better already.

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    #175079

    Brandon
    Participant

    Eemmm….it’s a gray area. No ownership, no comp….so what I said month’s ago was true.
    And, if I owe you an apology think of how many you owe people. Do you really want to go there?

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    #175080

    GB
    Participant

    Brandon,
    Thanks for clarifying.

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    #175082

    Mikel
    Member

    It may be gray to you – it’s called a lie where I come from. So yea, let’s go there. You know of where I’ve misled anyone?

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    #175084

    Taylor
    Participant

    Well, this is interesting. And as someone that has absolutely no dog in the hunt, I’m going to make a comment or two, or more.
    First, Stan, where do you get off bashing a program. We all know some programs are better, and yes you do usually get what you pay for, does that make it anymore effective. No, You yourself said you could do better with a couple books and just teaching. In My opinion, its the teacher that makes any training, not the materail. If you can’t present the material you have, then the quality of the material is worthless.
    As for pimping material or OSSS, who cares, go and pimp all you want. Who can blame anyone for advertising their product. Thats what makes the world go around. If I worked for a company like OSSS I would have it in my Screen Name, or my company logo pasted in every comment. Inherently, the information you post, will be the deciding factor as to whether someone actually uses your product or someone elses. I think all the consultants that are affiliated with firms should have to state who they work for on this site.  A real registration policy, and not some any guy with a computer. So guys like me, that may actually use their services can recognize the BS Firms from the others
    My Opinion is that any MBB worth his own salt, should be able to take any training material, tweak it, and teach effectively, lead, and mentor.
    .02 cents of my experience

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    #175087

    Ken Feldman
    Participant

    I take a bit of an exception to your post. If a famous and influential person is endorsing a product on TV, a note appears at the bottom of the ad indicating that they are being paid. It now establishes that what they are saying is not objective but a result of being paid and that anything they say is suspect. Same for posting here. If a poster is providing a testimonial for some product or service and has an opportunity to have some influence on the general readership, there should be some indication that the testimonial they are providing is not purely objective and there is some personal stake in their post. There may not be an intent to deceive but it would be fair to those reading the post to know affiliation and thus evaluate things within that context. That’s my .99 cent opinion. As to your recommendation, I will start things off. I am Darth and I work for GIGANTO PLC and I have secret fantasies about Stan’s pregnant babe of a sister in law. Thanks, I feel relieved now that I have laid it all out to the Forum.

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    #175088

    Taylor
    Participant

    Darth
    Point taken, and maybe I didn’t make it that clear. Good Observation about product testimonial. I should have said, the general day to day advice given here by posting and just letting people know, “Hi I’m Darth and Work for GIGANTO PLC” and this is my company logo. Let your advice speak for your company, thats how one determines the BS from the others. As for Stans hot babe of a sister in law (Pregnant) Dont know but what I here, Stevo was involved, Joking dont know either way, but still funny as hell

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    #175089

    Mikel
    Member

    Chad,I’ll answer your question only because I respect your contribution. I did not bash a program – I said they were as bad as the rest. I did
    that to tweak Brandon as much as anything. My issue with Brandon is he has clearly had an association with
    OSSS where overtly promoted in the beginning and now only works
    it into about half his answers. He has denied the link until today. My issue with OSSS is they are promoting the idea that all you
    need is their materials and you too can have a SS program. There
    are enough crappy consltants and Programs out there without
    becoming an enabled. I do improvement because I love it – these
    guys are just more lightweights looking for a fast buck – they could
    give a sxxt about the result. That offends me. As far as ok pimping products, read the rules. I like the idea of everyone stating their background and affiliations.

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    #175090

    Brandon
    Participant

    Darth, let me clarify something before Stan prejudices this string with falsehoods and you and others are misled.
    I have never pretended to be a user of OSSS products to falsely promote them (as the celebrities you mention do – and I can’t remember seeing any caveates as you state in years). I have used them and I’ve commented on their applicability when appropriate. I have never “run an ad” in any string. I have responded with reference to OSSS products when appropriate to the poster’s query (see Suzi’s post and my response just prior to this post).
    My opinion is the offerings are high quality; and I had a hand in developing some of them. For Stan and JackT (whoever that jerk is) to blatantly dis them is a disservice to any person asking about them. Stan and JackT are not commenting because they really believe one should not use OSSS products or because they believe they are sub-standard….their comments are based in some other issues they have and I won’t pretend to understand the psychology behind that.

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    #175091

    Brandon
    Participant

    You’re dead wrong about caring about what impact we have. Who do you think you are to make such proclamations?!!!
    This is over – I’m done with your nonsense.

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    #175092

    Brandon
    Participant

    OK – one more comment. This string really goes to the heart of what this forum is about.
    Jan poses a question.
    Out of 20 or 30 subsequent posts only one person, Daniel, gives her a serious answer.
    Everybody else is out to kill someone. Does that tell you anything about our world? …the Six Sigma world, that is? I see nothing like this in the forum on lean.org.

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    #175093

    GB
    Participant

    I’m Heebeegeebee BB and I am affiliated with Chimichanga Associates, LLC.   I offer training and certifications ranging from Yellow-in-the-front/Brown-in-the-back Belt, to various shades of Borracho-Belts, to the coveted, Certified Master Chimichanga Belt with an added Cholula-sauce skill identifier.
     
    I feel better, finally getting that off my chesticles.

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    #175094

    GB
    Participant

    That is definitely the 6S world…Kill, or be killed….You don’t see that on Lean.org, because they are a bunch of weenies!
    (JUST KIDDING!!!!)

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    #175095

    Mikel
    Member

    I gave Jan a serious answer. You carry an agenda and a chip on
    your shoulder – you are easy to tweak so you needed to defend
    your enterprise. Darth, please don’t bash my grammar, I’m doing this on an iPhone. Full disclosure -I’m Stan and I work for myself – just ask any of my former bosses. I think there are a dozen or so really good consultants out there
    and the rest of them should go get more experience and
    knowledge, so Brandon is right about that.I feel better too.

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    #175096

    Ken Feldman
    Participant

    Brandon, we all realize that Stan’s response is not totally objective. It is apparent that there is some personal conflict at the heart of this thread. While the rules state that we shouldn’t promote goods and services, there is nothing wrong with responding to queries with disclosure. I think the warning goes to proactively promoting not reactively responding. In rereading the thread, your initial response was not promoting OSS. The connection didn’t come out until later. I think this whole thread has become one of personal conflict and the original poster is probably wondering what went wrong.

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    #175097

    Mikel
    Member

    wow Darth, you’ve reformed. Are you in a 12 step program?

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    #175098

    Brandon
    Participant

    Thank you Darth…I think.
    You may also realize I did not comment throughout this string to Jan about the OSSS products. She ask for an opinion as to their viability.  Being involved with OSSS I did not comment since that would not be appropriate.
    However, when Suzi asked about how to identify a project for belt training she is about to start I referred her to a Quick Reference Guide on the topic offered by OSSS.
    I’m just fine with my approach….what’s his name seems to have an issue with it. But you know what ….I’m done with him.

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    #175099

    Ken Feldman
    Participant

    I have recently been accused of lacking a nurturing approach, of being combative and of being abrasive. Imagine that!!! So, I am trying a new approach until my butt heals from all the axx reaming I have received of late. Don’t worry, I will be back soon.

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    #175101

    Alderman
    Participant

    Can’t we all just get along. Why all the hostilities????? Way too much testosterone.

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    #175103

    GB
    Participant

    Actually, i think this, ultimately, is a healthy discussion.    In fact, i think it’s one of the most in-depth, soul-searching, value-added discussions on this board in years.   Let’s see, topics that emerged so far:

    Disclosure
    conflict
    promotion/marketing vs. advice-giving
    clarification
    transparency
    It’s called the Socratic method, Capt. Kaizen…
    Thesis—Antithesis—Synthesis
    God forbid we have conflict!   ohhhhh!
    ;-)

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    #175104

    Sloan
    Participant

    Let me see if I can summerize this thread:
    Someone said, “Hey, what do you think about this baby?”
    Someone else said, “That baby is ugly.”
    Someone else said, “Hey! Don’t call MY baby ugly!”
    “I didn’t say anything about YOUR baby, I said THAT baby is ugly. Shut up!”
    …and then a peeing contest started and someone’s shoes got wet, and then a slap-fight started (that was embarrasing) and then someone opened a bottle of scotch and before you knew it, everyone was singing drinking songs and apologizing to each other.
    So whatever happened to the baby?

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    #175105

    Alderman
    Participant

    BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH….

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    #175106

    Taylor
    Participant

    Stan, OK understand the thought process.
    Well if nothing else we have all managed to put OSSS out there today about 20 times, making this the most read post on the forum this week. Good or Bad they got publicity………..
    HBGB-You aint right in the head dude……..still laughing

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    #175109

    GB
    Participant

    hee hee

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    #175111

    Brandon
    Participant

    Outlier, that’s one of the reasons I don’t drink much anymore.
    And, I guess, one of the reasons I don’t get invited to those parties in So. Florida any more where the apparent objective is to drink yourself into oblivion.

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    #175112

    JackT
    Participant

    Brandon, Thanks for the welcome to the forum.  I’ve posted before- only to those points where I thought I could contribute.  Since you asked- I’m a Chemical Process Engineer/BB/CQM. 

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    #175113

    Brandon
    Participant

    Hhmmm… did a search on this site for JackT….got no hits. Did you use some special chemical to make them disappear?

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    #175114

    Michael Mead
    Participant

    Chinese raters excluded? I protest! Oh wait, my license to protest was denied.  I guess I will withdraw my request…

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    #175124

    GB
    Participant

    Now THAT was funny!

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    #175149

    Cone head
    Participant

    Stan,
    Don’t you also do some work for a firm in Far Rockaway, New York?  If I’m right, maybe you’re a Cone-head, too?

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    #175156

    Alderman
    Participant

    Sure would’ve loved to see the expressions on their faces… too funny, way too funny

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    #175158

    GB
    Participant

    Their expressions were probably along the lines of this:

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    #175159

    Dr Michael J
    Participant

    Six sigma is like global warming.  Despite all evidence proving that it is absolute nonsense, people still flock to it like blind lemmings.

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    #175162

    Robert S
    Member

    Is this Stan’s sister that you all have been talking about?

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    #175163

    Robert S
    Member

    Apparently you as well, since you’re reading and responding to our posts.
    So if you don’t care for SS I suggest you flock off.

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    #175166

    Don Howie
    Participant

    Dr. Kenneth Feldman, is that you? 
     
    Are your from Miami?
     
    I call you all day today to no avail.  Did you had time to evaluate my software?
     
    Don’t have your email.  Can you post it?
     

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    #175169

    Taylor
    Participant

    Excellent use of the word “Flock”…………I get it

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    #175171

    Robert S
    Member

    I don’t particularly like to talk that way but he teed it up too well….couldn’t resist.

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    #175241

    ExSSQI
    Participant

    Brandon,
    Still not completely forth coming Brandon. A consulting firm executive? In formal position only. Certainly not in leadership or trust. You sat in an office writing nasty emails to the consultants that paid your salary. Never certified and when you tried consulting you failed repeatedly.
    ExSSQI

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    #175242

    Robert S
    Member

    Ex, cleary a very bitter and inaccurate description. If you are so passionate about your position, use your name….let’s get it on!

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    #175243

    NotSSQI
    Participant

    You may want Scott to look at you behavior since coming out of
    the closet. Just my opinion.

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    #175244

    ExSSQI
    Participant

    Robert S,
    Stan has made it apparent who and what you are. To many of us have worked with you and know you cannot do most of what you have given advice on. You already look foolish so now you want to sound tough. Please.
    Bitter? You left SSQI swallowing the same bitter pill you had fed to so many. The coup did not work because you were inept.
    ExSSQI
     

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    #175245

    Robert S
    Member

    I believe I know who you are and you know who I am, so if you really have a problem with me or anything about OSSS call me. You know how to get ahold of me.
    You apparently are just getting a kick out of posting your offbase opinions in a public forum….under an alias no less.
    You don’t call then I’m finished with this discussion.

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    #175246

    BC
    Participant

    Don,
    For the sake of the rest of us, please do not reveal the true identity of Lord Vader.  Not knowing who he is is part of the mystique.  If I find out there’s a real person under that mask, I’ll be as disappointed as I was when I found out there was no Santa Claus (I’m still in shock even though it’s been a whole year now).
    Besides, you might find out that Dr Darth is your father.

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    #175250

    NotSSQI
    Participant

    OKYou get one guess and I’ll bet you are not right. Who am I?

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    #175275

    Taylor
    Participant

    If he worked for you, I understand why he left

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    #175278

    Robert S
    Member

    Your meaning is unclear Chad.

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    #175280

    Taylor
    Participant

    Well the guy just seems like a real team player………….NOT

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    #175281

    Robert S
    Member

    OK, thanks. I’ve always held your reasoning ability in high regard….wasn’t sure if he threw you off kilter or not……NOT.

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