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PPAP requirements

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  • October 22, 2008 at 9:18 pm #51175

    Ward
    ★ 10 Years ★
    Participant

    I have a casting source who is about to run PPAP on a part.  They recently made prototypes off a 2-cavity production intent mold (the production mold will be 8-cavity).  Some of the prototypes exhibited unacceptable porosity (voids), so for production they’re also talking about changing the gating design to reduce the porosity.  But my internal quality “guru” is telling me they can PPAP off this 2-cavity mold with a non-production intent gating strategy.  This sounds completely out of line with all I’ve been taught about PPAP, I thought PPAP had to be run-at-rate with all production processes and machinery in place.  Am I missing something, or this guy full of it, and just trying to check the box on his timeline?  If it makes any difference, this is automotive industry.  Any truly knowledgable help, especially reference to any relevant AIAG manual verbiage, will be greatly appreciated.

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    October 22, 2008 at 10:10 pm #176991

    Taylor
    ★ 10 Years ★
    Participant

    Your guy is full of it. Non production runs are to prove design not production. PPAP is to prove process production capability as you stated. Your Vendor runs the risk of having to rerun the PPAP, on their dime. Sorry don’t have any AIAG quote, just long hard days dealing with GM and Ford on the other end.
    What should have happened

    Run a prototype off the 2 cavity to prove design concept
    Run a prototype off the 8 cavity to prove design and repeatability
    Run PPAP to prove repeatability and reproducibility over stated production requirement @ full production rates

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    October 23, 2008 at 1:25 am #176996

    Severino
    ★ 10 Years ★
    Participant

    I agree with Chad. 
    Also, since your porosity was found to be unacceptable, you would also be well advised to perform a DoE where gate size, location, mold temp, melt temp, melt flow rate, raw material heats etc. are screened and optimized for dominant control factors.  In fact, this should be standard practice for your R&D and quoted properly to your customer so that you don’t eat all the costs. 
    Take the opportunity now to gain as much knowledge of your process as possible so that you don’t pay the price later.  I’ve seen plenty of products pass PPAP only to get to the second or third lot and become unacceptable. 

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