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Question for Darth, Vinny, Mike, and even Stan

Six Sigma – iSixSigma Forums Old Forums General Question for Darth, Vinny, Mike, and even Stan

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  • #39021

    walden
    Participant

    To the alleged established,
    It appears that when ya’ll are not “riduculizing” the confused, you give ample examples of applied six sigma in your contrived worlds.  What if any applications of “Human Factors” usability testing do you use in projects to meet your customer’s needs; And no “Human Factors” is not all common sense, because that would really depress me after all the money I’ve spent in grad school while working 7 days a week in an assembly line to put food on the table.
    Chris
     

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    #117705

    Dayton
    Member

    Hi Chris,
     
    I was responsible for Human Factors Engineering in a previous corporation.   HF, as you seem to know, is a fascinating interplay between Industrial Engineering, Cognitive Psychology, Programming and Systems Engineering.   The specific application was Human Factors Engineering for advanced medical devices.  We used HF from the very conceptualization of customer needs yielding prototype product right through clinical trials and final product release.
     
    HF played an important role in the development of the product labeling, operator’s manuals, technical product support manuals, and even the promotional literature.  It was an imperative in programming screen display development, the abbreviations used on displays, and was especially important in programming sequences to assure correct programming even in off shift or emergency conditions when the attention paid or level of competency of the caregiver was not optimum.
     
    HF is important in reducing the potential for cumulative trauma stress disorders such a carpal tunnel syndrome in reducing aggravating movements such as flexion and deviation especially under compounding stressors such as repeated movements under weighted conditions.
     
    I have an engineering undergraduate degree, MBA and PhD in operations research but most of my HF knowledge was gained in one of two post docs and on the job. 
     
    When I structured the HF function for my Fortune 100 corporation I knew what I knew and didn’t know and had the latitude to go out and recruit and hire the best available.  The downturn in dot com was my saving grace and I got a team that was outstanding, a PhD in cognitive psychology, an MD, and a PhD in computer science.  And they all were HF experts.  Between us we did a great deal of good work on specific product development teams and in structuring a self-sustaining HF program in the corporation inculcated into the fabric of product design and sustaining engineering.  A truly fascinating field and one that I loved working in.  I did not get to a point where I was a HF expert but achieved a working understanding of many of the field’s challenges, tools and contributions – and also developed a profound respect and admiration for HF experts and their contributions.  You can accurately say that everything is a process and you can accurately say that everything that humans interface with has HF ramifications and potential for betterment.
     
    My world is challenging and fascinating and I love the challenges that I face daily – when I’m not challenged I challenge.  It is only contrived in the way that I occasionally use allegory, humor, analogy, and a vivid imagination to wrap my message – don’t mistake the wrapping for the message.  I am most sincere in doing things my own way, leading activities and operations, beating my competition, doing the right things, the right way, and having not just a good plan or answer – but the best answer to the point of having the only viable answer.  
     
    I appreciate your efforts and achievements.  I spent a lot of time in grad school and in factories at all levels from the assembly line to the corner office and good levels in R&D and in corporate functions.  My wife kids me because she knows that I will work and challenge and contribute and achieve until I die.  But you know what?  The fight’s worth it.  I love it and would not trade it for anything.  Hang in there.  It’s about the most fun many of us are ever going to have. 
     Vinny

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    #117707

    walden
    Participant

    Vinny,
    Thanks for the support.  I won’t bore everyone with details; but my dissertation will be resolved around proprioception shifts and adaptation in virtual reality and its relation to negative learning transfer and decision hesitation in low visibility flying using VR and VR surgery mistakes. Yes, I’m doing my own homework. No request for ideas…unless you’ve experienced real world applications. You can even leave out the 1.5 Sigma Shift.
    As far as work, if things go as planned I should be in the New England area for Six Sigma Training in May, leaving the role of assembly supervision to someone who can influence change at all levels. It’s too hard to just sit and watch. We do things a little differently here with Six Sigma but it looks like we are leaning towards the mathematical version as time progresses.
    Chris
     

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    #117729

    Dayton
    Member

    Chris,
     
    If you are at a point in your studies that you’d like to talk to a couple of PhD HF experts who had done extensive work with FAA, airlines, and aircraft cockpit controls design, let me know and I can give you contact information.   Both are VERY sharp and experienced – but I don’t know that either did specifically work with VR.  Plus I know of a MD who is a thought leader in microsurgical techniques.   
     
    You are entering a fascinating field of study and post-study (assuming any of us every get past study) application.
     
    Good luck.   You can email me at [email protected]  if you want additional information – but only if you take the time to first read about the life and contributions of famous dead mathematician Evangelista Torricelli and tell me something uniquely interesting and compelling from your reading – a small price to pay for additional insight.
     Vinny

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    #117733

    Ken Feldman
    Participant

    While not as extensive a background as Vinny, I did pick up a Certificate of Occupational Safety and Health back a few decades ago.  It covered most of the OSHA issues and was sponsored by NIOSH.  A lot of it dealt with HF issues since my major professor was a hardcore HF guy formerly from the Univ. of FL.  Another of the professors was very active with the FAA in dealing with cockpit issues.  I got involved with some folks at the Med School dealing with backs and spines.  I did a little research on constant versus intermittent noise and their effect on manual assembly operations.  In today’s SS world, the applications of HF are often in the IT/transactional world with all the use of computers and carpal tunnel problems.  Same would apply to assembly operations in manufacturing.  I hope you also expand your knowledge to pick up some of the environmental safety and health issues as well.  Always a popular topic.  Good luck in your SS training.

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    #117857

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    Chris,
    When you begin a post: “It appears that when ya’ll are not “riduculizing” the confused, you give ample examples of applied six sigma in your contrived worlds.”
    and then expect me to care about your state of mind: “And no “Human Factors” is not all common sense, because that would really depress me after all the money I’ve spent in grad school while working 7 days a week in an assembly line to put food on the table.” That isn’t going to happen.
    What I will give you is that between our Black Belts and Green Belts on the current deployment we will do approximately 200 projects this year and we have a scorecard metric of at least 20% are Safety, Health, Environmental and Community projects.
    If you want anything else positive change your tone. I spent 3 years in the Marine Corps in the early 70’s and used the GI Bill to go to college and still worked to make ends meet. Why would think your 7 days a week on the assembly line makes any difference to me or the thousands that did military service? Did anyone ever shoot at you (at least on a regular basis) in the factory?

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    #117860

    Taylor
    Member

    Chris,
    Have you noticed how folks like Stan, Darth, and Mike constantly post messages here? Most of the time, their posts have nothing to do with Six Sigma. They are just using this website as if it is theirs to socialize.
    They have one thing in common though. They are all consultants. These consultants got too much free time on their hands. They teach the same stuff over and over, flash their fancy PowerPoint slides, and then move to a new client. Then, we, employees, have to clean up the mess that they created.
    It is much easier to show a PPT file than to implement it!
    “Just my opinion”

     

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    #117869

    Chris Seider
    Participant

    Todd,
    I wholely disagree with your posting.  I have worked directly with 2 of the 3 individuals and have found them quite useful in driving business results.  They don’t need me defending them but maybe you should clarify what kind of mess was left. 
    Also the implication that they teach the same stuff over and over does NOT make the material any less useful.  If repeated material was useless then algebra and english would have been considered useless centuries ago!   
    Just my four nickles or my “paradigm”.

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    #117872

    Adam L Bowden
    Participant

     C Seider – I agree with you – the folks mentioned are not the issue.  “You can lead a horse to water and cannot force it to drink – you can try !!!”  This leads to the organization and it’s culture.  Folks, and companies for that fact, that are Leadership driven (rather than Management constraining change) adopt the six sigma philosophy and drive it hard and thus make their success.  At home if you see a mess on the floor do you just leave it there and complain or do you clean it up and get on with life. 
    my 2 cents worth …  any one got more to add ?
    regards,
    Adam
     

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    #117874

    Mikel
    Member

    Chris,
    You know, you are right. And it’s really irratating me lately that Darth and Mike are working so much that sometimes its hard to get a meaningless string of posts going.
    Maybe you can take their place?

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    #117875

    Annonymous
    Participant

    The bell curve applies, even to consultants. Some are in
    the upper tail and some are in the lower portion, yet all
    claim to be the best. The big guys get bigger and the little
    guys are always in the shadows forever obscured by the
    success of the big dogs. The SS BOK is now well know.
    Every consultancy has the same basic slides with the
    same message. So why do some consultants continually
    grow, innovate, and lead the industry while others follow
    behind preaching the same message. Nothing speaks
    louder and more decisively than results. Results are
    quantitative and speak for themselves. Success breads
    success and a consulting practice lives and dies by its
    success, in magnitude and diversity. Consultants gain
    global notearity and recognition through their leveraged
    contributions. Examples of this dominate every field of
    endeavor, especially the field of six sigma. In the field of
    quality and six sigma this message is clearly reinforced
    by examining the innovative works and contributions of
    such individuals as Shewhart, Juran, Deming, Harry,
    Welch, Bossidy, and a host of other well known corporate
    shakers-and-movers like Hammer and Goldrat. These
    individuals developed concepts, forged new territory, and
    advanced the methods and tools we use every day. A
    short investigation of six sigma as it is practiced today
    quickly surfaces the big dogs and obsures the middle-
    aged puppies jumping around on a small porch trying to
    bark real loud and attract attention. Leaders rise to the
    top in a natural way. Leadership is not bought, it is
    bestowed by one’s peers and superiors. Those operating
    in the shadows are there for a reason, a very good
    reason. Those on top did not get there, and stay there, by
    being lucking. Those in the middle are average. Only a
    few are best-in-class. The rest are simply middle-class or
    no-class. I do believe the bell curve applies where the
    quality of consultants are concerned. So whats the issue
    here? Let me guess, all of the dominate posters on this
    site are really paradigma shifters highly sought after by
    the business world but choose by free will alone to seek
    self-actualization through six sigma, fully ignoring the
    laws of business growth and principles of financial
    success. A couple of consultants on this site seem to use
    their real name while others require codification. Such
    mascarades fool nobody. The principles of the
    businesses listed on the right-hand side are there for a
    reason and the self proclaimed expert consultants
    frequently posting to this forum seem to miss this point.
    Just a few thoughts on the subject.

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    #117884

    Dayton
    Member

    A –
     
    Study the field and get to know the contributors.   Your data-less self-constructed correlation of frequent forum poster to lack of business/contribution is baseless and without logic.  This forum community has the benefit of the ongoing assistance from experienced thought leaders in the field.   By reading, thinking about the postings and asking questions of the subject matter experts you might learn a few valuable lessons – possibly not, but you seem bright enough, just misdirected. 
     Vinny

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    #117885

    Annonymous
    Participant

    Thank you so much for your wise advice. I now realize
    that my thinking is fully groundless and utterly foolish.
    Please excuse my ignorant ways, lack of experience, and
    improper patterns of thought. Wishfully my collegues and
    I will now bow our heads in humble respect. We
    collectively seek your profound understanding and
    leadership. Are you available for consulting? Do you
    accept MC or Visa? Can we get a sight license? What
    about a volume discount? At last our quest for business
    enlightenment is drawing to a close as we near the
    fountain of truth. PS —

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    #117886

    Adam Bowden
    Participant

    Nice succint sarcastic comeback.
    regards,
    Adam

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    #117888

    walden
    Participant

    Mr. Carnell,
     
                I enjoy a healthy debate and exchange of ideas and do not intend to offend anyone on this forum, yet that does not seem to be the common theme from my limited exposure. I specifically addressed you and the others because of the “humor”, sometimes masked as critical review other times it “appears” hostile do to low tolerance to “stupidity” being the running theme (You can direct others who do not do their homework in a more professional way if you didn’t enjoy the other method so). In between the threads however, I do see ample (plentiful, abundant, generous) examples of good info and examples from an applied Six Sigma perspective. This is why I chose your group. What I did assume based on your past posts is that I would get an informative response from you.  Instead, I received posts from Vinny and Darth that were very enlightening without the hostility. This was interesting and appreciated. Stan did tell me on another post to stay in the back office and let the real work continue.  Please note that on this post, I was not sarcastic (humor) originally, but I replied accordingly.  However, he has also provided good perspectives in other posts. With that in mind and not in usual form, I will let you into to my world which you made many assumptions about.
     
                “3 years in the military… with the thousand others”, I spent 12 years in the military with the few who stuck around. And no I was not point man in the Marines. I crawled in fuel tanks and handled hydrazine wearing SCBA’s and rocket suits in the Air Force; 2 tours to Saudi (don’t forgot about Kobar towers and the bombings, this is where I slept), a year remote in Korea (no infiltrators 45 miles from where I worked, they were shot dead before they got closer), plus the numerous other deployments supported by aircraft mechanics because congress cut our numbers.  I met my family occasionally. I also took classes too when I could, and yes I am using the GI Bill now too.
     
                I have no issue with being a consultant…that may be my direction.  Right now I’m trying to get my company counterparts to understand Human Factors and usability.  I have also just been put in a position dealing with Six Sigma and although there seems to be question about shifting normative data (transforming), it appears to be handled correctly and I do see the principle.  I will continue to ask questions from my area of perspective to learn, evaluate, and then make my decisions (good or bad).  I thought that is what people who like challenges do. By the way, most of the “sarcastic” comments in my original thread could be considered plagiarism, because they came from the group threads. In response to the other threads, yes this forum does get personalized and has non-value threads, but that is part of interaction and not being stuck in a class room reading notes and not bringing life into the picture. 
     
                I hope this eliminates any future misperceptions about me or my expectations.
     
    Chris (my real name)
     

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    #117890

    Dayton
    Member

    A –
     
    I was not referring to myself.  I came into the forum at a point where I needed clarity and input on the “how to” of Six Sigma, the statistics were not a challenge, the DMAIC concept took about 3 seconds to understand, and I blew through at least a hundred books on the subject.  That introduction along with BB training and an extensive background in industry I thought prepared me for a significant Six Sigma program role.  It did not.  Multiple projects helped.   Input from the forum subject matter experts helped.   Being intelligent and very well educated helped.   Having worked in R&D, Operations and many plant and corporate roles helped.  Not biting the hand of those extending their hand in an offer of assistance also helped.  You might give it a try.
     
    It is very easy to sort the wheat from the chaff in this forum and for some reason you feel compelled to slap at the wheat (not yet choosing to go after you for your personal smart-ass attack of me just now) and not referring to myself as part of the wheat but taking the time to tell you that I have found your conclusions to be erroneous – and I am a very hard sell regarding the qualifications of others, some on the forum are very good in their chosen field of Six Sigma.   As I stated, you might learn from them – I have and continue to. 
     Vinny

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    #117891

    Annonymous
    Participant

    To my distinguished colleague, Vinny. As you might well
    agree, invention is about imagining the box, whereas
    innovation is about thinking beyond the box. As you so
    dutifully suggest, we should consider the postings made
    by those self-distinguished consultants that regularly
    “contribute” to this forum. What is their hit rate (per
    posting) for making inventive contributions to the field of
    quality or business management? What is their hit rate
    (per posting) for providing innovative discussion related
    to their inventive contributions? By way of the archived
    postings made available by this website, you might want
    to reconsider your position. Statistics is not required to
    support the null condition.

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    #117892

    Dayton
    Member

    A –
     
    I believe that the basis for your metrics is flawed.   As you move back into the forum postings and select a posting of one of the experts for contributory assessment, move back a posting or two from their posting and review the posting to which they were responding.   
     
    You will find that very frequently they were responding to initially posted input that was either erroneous or very, very basic.   A great deal of time is taken on this forum correcting error and bringing new entries in the field up to speed.  
     
    As I fairly frequent reader of the forum’s postings, occasional technical contributor and occasional harasser of a couple of posters that I am quite fond of in a manly Internet technical forum kind of way I am frequently amazed at the lowest common denominator’s capacity to set the level of discussion regarding the Six Sigma process and applied statistics.   If you stick around you will eventually get to the point where discussions of the 1.5 sigma shift, TQM versus Six Sigma, who started Six Sigma, who first told Jack about it, anything and everything about Dr. Harry, the value of academically based versus practitioner based training, the value of the ASQ Six Sigma certification, can you give me a title and subject for my doctoral dissertation, etc., etc., are maddening.   But, to their immense credit, the subject matter experts stick with the forum and although occasionally exasperated respond to the query. 
     
    As I said earlier – sifting and sorting wheat from chaff is an exercise, but it’s also an artifact of playing in an anonymous technical forum, you get the good, bad and ugly.  
     Vinny

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    #117893

    Mikel
    Member

    Dear Mr. Anonymous Reigle,
    If you are right about the frequesnt posters, what does that say about you?

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    #117894

    Annonymous
    Participant

    Vinny XXX. Your point is well taken, but does not address
    any of my irrational and professionally misdirected points
    of concern. I realize that a lot of time and effort is put into
    correcting the “intellectual defects” on this forum. Your
    powers of inspection are beyond reproach. Your ability to
    detect such defects without committing any form of
    decision errors (alpha or beta in nature) is most incredible
    and represents a fine model to advance the science of six
    sigma. Your goal (or perhaps need) to detect-and-fix the
    academically flawed and business ignorant is remarkable
    and commands a great deal of respect from me. This on-
    going practice is brillant, but by no means is it an
    inventive nor innovative means to resolve such
    knowledge-based quality issues. Surely such a
    distinguished, highly seasoned and intellectually
    enriched group of six sigma day traders could apply
    DFSS to create a process of communication that is robust
    to such defects. But then again, such thinking is not in
    line with the process of inspection, test and fix you
    gratiously adhere to within the boundries of this forum.
    Who checks on the checkers around here? Oh, I forgot,
    this is an open discussion forum where opinions are
    valued as facts. A place where quality information is only
    rendered by those that frequently post. Now thats an
    interesting correlation on your part. By the laws of
    probability, I am not wrong about everything, nor are you
    right about everything. So what are the filters and who
    establishes such filters?

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    #117895

    Mikel
    Member

    Dear Mr. Anonymous Reigle,
    It is a fact that your opinion is not valued.
    Perhaps you can humour us with a Mikel quote before you go away (again).

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    #117899

    PMG
    Participant

    Reading between the lines I think Mr. Annonymous is jealous of Darth et al.
    I have a good quote for you all from Oscar Wilde…..
    ‘The only thing to do with good advice is pass it on. It is never any use to oneself.’
    Really enjoy the discussions.
    Thanks
    PMG
     
     

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