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Selection of a Consulting Partner

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  • #50962

    Russty
    Member

    We are in the process of evaluating a consulting partner for our six sigma deployment. There are two consulting partners who we are evaluating and both are different animals. Some members of our executive team are in favour of one partner where others are in favour of the other. In order for us to select a partner who will provide the expertise and support to our team so that sustainable results are delivered I want the exec’s to be as objective as possible when making a selection. I am looking for a comprehensive guideline in what to look for in a consulting partner. If you have some pointers or detailed recommendation in what criteria to use for evaluation purposes I would greatly appreciate it.

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    #175869

    GB
    Participant

    Sounds like you might want to consider a VoC session with the exec Partners to develop a set of traits (personality and professional) and develop consensus.   Once done, You may consider severl rounds of force field analysis (reader digest analysis) and see which Candidate stands out.
    -or-
    you could hire both on and see what happens!
    ;-)

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    #175870

    Russty
    Member

    I am in the process of doing a VOC with the exec’s. I want to provide some guidance on this as none have been exposed to a Six Sigam deployement that has been successful. At the moment they are lookign for guidance and I am concerned that a consulting partner will be selected based on there ability to tell the exec’s what they want to hear, which in my experience does not always deliver results. Its just a really good consultant selling technique.

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    #175876

    Ken Feldman
    Participant

    One of a consultant’s greatest assets is their referencability from clients. Ask for references from well known companies and people high enough in the organization so that you can have some confidence in what they are saying. All consultants will tell a good tale. Clients will likely be more objective and honest. Make sure that they give you more than one or two and that they are in your industry. A consultant willing to put some of their fees at risk for an upside based on performance and results is something to consider. The sales guys are not the ones that will be delivering. Find out who they will assign to the account and feel free to interview them for background and qualifications. Longevity in business is a good guide. Size and access to resources is a consideration. Your criteria will also be a function of the size of the deployment. A large global deployment will require more resources than a small mom and pop place looking to train a few green belts. Consider employees versus contractors. While they may be equal in competency, there is a difference in commitment and “control”.

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    #175878

    anon
    Participant

    Darths advice is really good.  Let me add one thing, if you also want consultants who will stay in your town over the weekend to feed orphans and paint churches that further limits your choices.

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    #175881

    Mikel
    Member

    Good sound boiler plate Darth. If it was followed you would not have
    had half your gigs.The best implementations were done by people who had little or none
    of what you recommend. Allied was done by guys who only had loads
    of experience and energy. GE was done by guys who only had Allied
    experience. Go figure

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    #175883

    Wynand
    Member

    Hi Rusty
    I agree that it is difficult to see through the “sales pitch” and select a consultant that will add value to your organisation.  At least you are on the right track by calling it a “partner” – this is where you want to end up.  Some thoughts re other criteria:
    ·         Breadth & depth of experience and ability to use it to help company drive results. Not about sexy IP or experience in specific industries. More about experience with different processes: r&d, admin, processing, assay, etc. And ability to use that experience to develop company people to drive results.
    ·         Track record of turning a vision into reality – what was the objectives of deployments and how have these been achieved – can the consultant turn benefits?
    ·         Careful analysis of rates – are you only paying for training, or are there sufficient time allowed for support (at least 3 weeks per week of training).  The classroom training is the easy one, the real learning start during dedicated support on projects.
    ·         Deployment methodology – is the consultant using a “one size fits all” approach, or are they insisting to customise/fit a deployment to the organisational culture
    ·         Deliverables from design phase – what is the stated purpose of the design phase including deliverables and time-frame
    ·         Expected time to become independent – this one is difficult as anybody can make promises, but what is the expected time after which sufficient knowledge transfer have taken place so that the umbilical cord to the consultants can be cut.
    ·         Publications record – is the consultants respected in the international community for value added publications
    ·         Relationship – All consultants are flawed. Question is do you trust them. A little like a marriage. Can you grow with them. Are their goals the same as yours and can they work thru your flaws as well as their own to create a positive interaction? Do you trust that they have your best interests in mind and are you willing to be humble enough to expose your flaws to them. Trust is critical
    Hope this helps & good luck
    Wynand

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    #175897

    Ken Feldman
    Participant

    Stan,
    Certainly you and Mike and others should be applauded on what you accomplished at the start of the SS revolution. On the other hand, believe it or not, LSS deployments have gotten a bit more sophisticated and require a broader skill set and more integration of approaches than the original roll outs. I know that you will dispute the wisdom and validity of my statement but the fact is that the larger global organizations making significant transformations are requiring the consultants who service that market to expand way beyond the classic training of GB/BB/MBB and coaching of Belts. We are forced now to address broader strategic issues along with IT solutions, innovation, complexity and organizational issues. While there are some smaller classical deployments similar to what GE and Allied Signal did they are becoming the domain of the smaller consultancies and are becoming less frequent. I can’t recall seeing you nor Mike to name a few, in the hunt for any of the multi million dollar fully integrated global engagements for Six Sigma nor in the Federal space competing for the contracts in the range of hundreds of millions. You are probably smart not participating in these adventures but never the less, the criteria for selection are different that what they could get from you. Not good or bad just there is a whole new marketplace out there which you and the ole guys are not equipped to support. Frankly, I envy you and Mike but a job is a job.

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    #175901

    Ron
    Member

    Having both retained consulting firms and been part of one I can tell you that most of the larger organizations are there to help themselves more than to help you organization.
    You need to determine what it is you are trying to do and get references from those organizations that have used whomever you are considering.
    Consider a home grown approach by hirng a few good MBB’s this is probably the best approach ifyou want a lasting implementation at a reasonalbe price.
     
     

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    #175904

    Robert S
    Member

    Ron, the advice you give is likely very good presuming they can find a match in hiring the MBBs. However, where would they get the IP to support inhouse training?

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    #175906

    Mikel
    Member

    I know I knowCall on me!you can follow the time honored tradition, started by GE of using IP
    that is not yours or pay someone $99 for IP they got the same way. Do I get an A?

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    #175908

    Sloan
    Participant

    Wow, Dr. D,
    That’s one of those back-handed compliments. Sort of like my favorite, “I’d rather be here with you nice folks today than with the finest people in the world.”
    Did you really just say that Stan was really lucky that he wasn’t equipped to go after any of those annoying hundred-million-dollar contracts with the government? And then you said you envied his lack of capability? Ouch.
    Stan, are you just gonna take that lying down!?! Come on, let him have it!
    Waiting anxiously in the stands for the fur to fly,
    Outlier
     

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    #175910

    Ken Feldman
    Participant

    You always get an A!!!! Reality is that training materials are a small component of the success of a deployment. As we all know, so much of the purported IP is really public domain. Differentiation is in implementation rather than training which has become such a commodity. Whether training is online or classroom matters little in the long run and doesn’t contribute much to the eventual benefits that accrues from doing the right things. So whether you pay big prices for training or $99 is a personal choice. It’s all the same sxxt. A talented instructor can instill knowledge using just a flipchart. Good coaching makes more of a difference than training materials.

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    #175911

    Robert S
    Member

    Darth, I could not agree more. Mentoring through application is where the rubber meets the road. Coursework is coursework….the content is nearly identical. Unfortunately some people are still paying hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars for it. So, regardless of Stan’s opinion of me, I have made an effort to make people realize they don’t have to do that.

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    #175912

    Ken Feldman
    Participant

    Of course they have to pay the big bucks. IP is very profitable.

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    #175913

    Mikel
    Member

    the IP has always been what I bring with me- no extra charge.

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    #175914

    Ken Feldman
    Participant

    Heck of a deal then. Even cheaper than $99. Of course charging $10,000 a day for training makes up a bit of the opportunity loss.

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    #175915

    Mikel
    Member

    Darth is exactly right – I don’t have nor do I want capability to do
    one stop nirvana. I feel blessed for that every day. How stupid is the company who signs up for that?

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    #175922

    Robert S
    Member

    Sure, you bring it with you but do you leave it there for their use once you’re gone – no charge? No license fee?

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    #175923

    Severino
    Participant

    What I find interesting is that despite the hype, I continuosly watch both Honeywell (allied) and GE taking a whooping from other companies (UTC, Rolls-Royce, etc.).  True this experience is limited to the aerospace sector and I’m not sure where they fall on the SS implementation scale, but it seemed like they have a hard time listening to the VoC with their heads up their butts.

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    #175924

    Mikel
    Member

    Absolutely – part of the contract going in.

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    #175925

    Mikel
    Member

    As you well know, success or failure are transient events. It is a fact
    that Motorola kicked butt from the mid 80’s to the mid 90’s but
    they were mediocre in the early 80’s and have been since the
    adoption of digital technology for cell phones (96 – 98 time frame).Allied kicked butt in the late 90’s but the influence of GE during
    the merger talks killed their program. GE is a shadow of
    themselves since
    Jack left.Name any company today that can claim they are peaking in part
    because of Six Sigma. You can’t – the product and implementations
    have been watered down by the GG, BMG, SSA’s of the world. They
    may offer everything including instant nirvana, but they deliver
    mediocre results. The good news is that there is so much money
    on the table, the the implementations have a positive ROI, it just
    pales to what is possible. Look at the Deere video link given earlier
    this week. Their example is achieving mediocrity.

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    #175926

    Mikel
    Member

    Darth, my friend (I mean that in all sincerity), you’ve been taken
    way to long of a toke on the GG/Accenture Kool-Aid.A company that buys all that you cite is a company that does not
    know who they are or what they want. Probably explains the
    relationship with our gov’t.For your enlightenment – my current customers include two in the
    top 75 of the Fortune 500 and one of the top 5 telecommunications
    companies in the world. And the thing all three have in common?
    They tell the world they don’t use consultants.The difference is I would tell a company looking for all you cited
    that they don’t know their axx from a hole in the ground.

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    #175929

    Mikel
    Member

    Boobie,You, nor your boy, have the background or credentials to be offering
    such a thing. You are making money off the backs of other people’s
    work.That is my point.Go get born again.

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    #175930

    Robert S
    Member

    What a low life you must be to keep thinking your demeaning variations of my name make you more important.
    And my son and I doing no such thing. We OWN every bit of IP we license. You are way off base.

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    #175932

    Russty
    Member

    Thank you all for the excellent feedback

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    #175938

    Ken Feldman
    Participant

    Stan,
    And thank goodness they don’t otherwise we wouldn’t have had such a long and lucrative career.

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    #175944

    Stevo
    Member

    Stan,
     
    I’ve only know the on-line personality known as Darth for a few years, however this seems to be his MO.  When he did time at BofA, he always put a positive spin on the situation.  
     
    Is this company loyalty (most likely), being naïve (I doubt it) or being politically aware of knowing where his bread is buttered (probably).
     
    Stevo –  aka captain obvious.

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    #175947

    Ken Feldman
    Participant

    Stevo,
    Possibly a different spin on your perspective. In all cases, positive comments reflect my feelings of the individuals I work with. When positive spin morphs to a less than positive spin it is due more to the significant shift in direction or leadership than a schizoid personality. While it is common knowledge that BOA, at one time, was fully engaged in a viable SS deployment and thus my positive comments. As they drifted to their current state my comments turned negative. I don’t see that being an issue. Organizations change and when things are going well it is easy to be positive. When they aren’t, I have a tendency to say so. My loyalty is rarely a consideration…I usually don’t drink the Koolaid. I make statements about the performance of the organization and how they treat me. If it’s done well then positive statements. If not, negative statements. Nothing more, nothing less.

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    #175954

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    Anon,
    What we choose to do on the weekends is independent of what we do on the consulting business. The people that are willing to do that – it tells me something about the people that work for our company.
    Just my opinion.
     

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    #175956

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    Wynand,
    I like your list. Just an after thought. Repeat business. Has the same person hired you more than once and over what period of time.
    There are a ton of people out there that spend a lot of money on marketing (either their company or themselves for jobs) that cannot get any type of reference let alone repeat business. Getting hired for a second, third, …. is the ultimate reference.
    Of course there is also the CIO mantra that says “nobody ever got fired for buying an IBM” I am not sure how you separate those two.
    Regards

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    #175962

    Scot Shank
    Participant

    Stan, You dont have any idea what your talking about.

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    #175963

    Mikel
    Member

    Scotty,Want to bet?Tell your friend Bobbie to stop inviting me back into the conversation
    and the conversation will go away.Bobbie has been exposed for the liar he is, don’t go down the same
    path.

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    #175965

    Wynand
    Member

    Mike
    Good to hear from you
    Point taken & cannot agree more
    Cheers

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    #175967

    Robert S
    Member

    At the time I said I did not own nor was I compensated by OSSS it was the truth. That changed and I have stated I am involved.
    Please stop your childish, personal attacks on me when you have never worked with me and don’t even know me. It makes me wonder if you aren’t being the mouthpiece for someone who won’t step up to their own issues.

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    #175969

    Ken Feldman
    Participant

    Come on guys. I love a good pixxing match as much as anyone, possibly even more but does every thread have to end up with an argument between the two of you???? Stan is the Master Baiter and you keep getting hooked. I know it is hard to fight the temptation but ignore him. Stan, if this keeps up we are going to have to call for a pixx-off in Phoenix to see who’s is bigger. Leave the guy alone.

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    #175972

    Robert S
    Member

    Thanks Darth I agree. However it is very difficult to remain quiet when a guy who doesn’t know me and has never worked with me continues make vicious, personal attacks.
    Do I make such attacks on him – no? I only attempt to dispute his false claims. However he ignores my challenge of logic and simply hurles more insults.
    Apparently you know him and, perhaps at one point, were close friends. However, I see him as a petty, angry person. It’s sad.
    All that said, I’ll take your advice and stop responding regardless of how vile his statements are.

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    #175973

    Mikel
    Member

    You don’t need to wonder – I speak for myself.
    Just remember that just because you are paranoid diesn’t mean people aren’t out to get you.

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    #175974

    Mikel
    Member

    but Mom, I am only getting involved with Bobbie calls me by name. Go check it out, you’ll see it’s true.

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    #175975

    Mikel
    Member

    You have said you would stop responding at least a half dozen times – you don’t have the self discipline to do that.
    In fact as I just pointed out to Mom, oops I mean Darth, I answered you when you call me by name earlier in this thread.

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    #175978

    Ken Feldman
    Participant

    Ok, I’ve had enough of both of you guys. It is settled. Tuesday at 1:30pm local time, Stan and Robert S will meet on the front lawn of Dr. Harry’s ranch. You will face each other at a distance of 12 inches. You will then turn your back to each other and Vinnie will count off ten paces. If Vinnie can’t make it then Stevo will do the honors. At that time, you will turn and pixx on each other. The one giving the greatest dousing to the other will be declared the winner. Carnell will do the measuring and Luke and myself will do a MSA on Mike’s measurement system. This will settle all future arguments between the two of you. Is there agreement????

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    #175980

    Mikel
    Member

    Only if I am allowed to body  slam the wuss when it’s over.

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    #175981

    Scot Shank
    Participant

    Stanley,
    I’m sure you THINK you know everything about me and my business. We both know your source is the same guy that complained to me for so many years about YOU. Take it with a grain of salt, its all narcissistic banter.I like Darth’s point. You and Me. Phoenix. Cage Fight. We’ll sell tickets and all. Winner takes the purse! Anybody have ideas for other match ups? Might as well make a night out of Six Sigma Hand-to-Hand Combat? ☺
    Relax Stan.

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    #175983

    Mikel
    Member

    Scottie,
    I don’t know anything about you or your business. This is about your friend Bobbie promoting your business on here. Turns out he is pretty easy to bait and make act irrational.
    I suspect that is bad for your business,
    I would encourage him to stop – I am only counter punching.
    If you want a cage match though it could be arranged. I would prefer not to do it on Mikel’s front lawn though – it’s just rocks and cactus.

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    #175984

    Stevo
    Member

    I hope Vinnie can make it, counting is not one of my strengths.  However, I would like to watch, I haven’t see a good slap fight in years.
    Stevo
     

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    #175985

    Mikel
    Member

    No slap fights here Stevo. I’ve been saying my prayers, eating my vitamins, and working out. I’m going to body slam Bobby just like my hero – Hulk Hogan.

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    #175986

    Severino
    Participant

    A Sample from the Six Sigma Book of Fighting:
    Defend Move Attack Improvise Cackle (DMAIC) – Generic strategy for successful six sigma fighting. 

    Defend any attacks to your groin
    Move away quickly from opponents who are bigger than you
    Attack them when they aren’t looking (a hit to the groin works best)
    Be ready for any strategy you have to fail
    Cackle when they are lying on the ground in pain.
    The Six Sigma Suplex – Lift opponent overhead, falling backwards so they land on their cranium.  Then punch ’em in the groin for good measure
    The 1.5 Sigma Shift – Pretend you are knocked out on the ropes.  When your opponent charges, sidestep and then kick them in the groin.
    Design of Embarassments (DoE) – Get your opponent into a leg lock so that your interactions… I mean legs are crossed.  Then punch them in the groin and depants them in front of their friends.

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    #175988

    Severino
    Participant

    Don’t look for six sigma fighting to become too popular though.  In order to cut down on variation in the matches the ring has been shrunk to a 1’x1′ square, opponents must be sure to fight from all four corners and one centerpoint or risk being disqualified and there hasn’t been any “buy in” on tickets yet.

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    #175989

    Taylor
    Participant

    Man I wish I knew this cat fight was happening today too funny. You guys really need to lighten up some, geez its just six sigma, how serious can it be……………..

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    #175991

    Ken Feldman
    Participant

    I try to make a serious proposal to settle things and you guys make a mockery of my suggestion. I am hurt and disappointed. I think I will go punch my Stan doll in the groin. It’s the one with him wearing the thong.

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    #175994

    Kumar
    Participant

    Russty,
    I read all the posts with interests and amazement.  I have dealt with many of consultants over the years and many here are small potatoes compared to them.
    Here is what you will generally find.  A good portion of them would not put there money on what they say.  They are generally good at training, know statistics, but they are limited in deployment (I know I am going to be flamed here for this), limited in the ability to solve a problem/execute project on their own.  Almost none has any real operations and mgmt experience to relate to your need. 
    If you are counting on them to help you create a sustainable result…you are in for surprise.  However, you can use them to fill the gaps that you might have and create better than sustainable growth.
    So how do you select them.  You have to look at your organizational competence and then select the one that fills the gap.  Mainly the needs are: training material, deployment strategy, training, coaching, and project execution, project selection, development of system and structure, etc.
    It is strategy and system & structure that will create the sustainability.  Other items are mostly tactical.
    Please review any consultant with respect to above and your own inhouse mgmt competency.  Who ever you select, interview them as you will interview a manager for hiring.  It is not the experience that matters, it is the capability.  Just because someone has worked with GE doesnot mean much as in many cases (my experience) it turns out quite stretching of the truth. 
    I was with GE when the Six Sigma was being roled out.  My boss was the first champion.  GE made Six Sigma successful because of its robust mgmt process.  They did have some consultants but remember, they have research center that will outdo most of the consultants anytime.
    I might have gone a bit longer and given the fodder to people here. If you would like to discuss further, let me know how to reach you, I will connect.
    Good luck with the deployment.  Six Sigma is a GOOD THING

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    #176001

    Vallee
    Participant

    Ravi,
    I have avoided this string for numerous reasons but am replying to you not because of you presenting a different view but because you contradicted yourself numerous times in an attempt to show how you were gving an unbiased view.
    “They are generally good at training, know statistics, but they are limited in deployment (I know I am going to be flamed here for this), limited in the ability to solve a problem/execute project on their own.  Almost none has any real operations and mgmt experience to relate to your need. “
    Contradicted by:
    “It is not the experience that matters, it is the capability.”
    You chatised people with your assumption about their experience and then state that experience doesn’t matter just their capability. Which side of the fence are you going to sit on? How have your really helped the poster anymore than any of the other posts?
    Yes he can interview the person being hired as a new manager, but what questions should he be asking of the consultant? Does he know what questions to ask concerning six sigma’s role and their company’s needs?  How does he decipher between a sales person and someone who is capable?
    Why would you suggest the following to fill in the gaps with out the true understanding of what is needed yet? Too often companies bring in a consulting partner and start training everybody under the sun with no true applicable vision.
    “So how do you select them.  You have to look at your organizational competence and then select the one that fills the gap.  Mainly the needs are: training material, deployment strategy, training, coaching, and project execution, project selection, development of system and structure, etc.”
    Just my opinion based on experience,
    HF Chris Vallee

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    #176007

    Kumar
    Participant

    Chris,
    There are no contradictions there.  It is a matter of you understanding or me taking time to cleanup the language.  Experience has been written there from two definitions..one is title and second one is from real competence. 
    As for as the second comment is concerned, I do not think I gave an exlusive list.  I gave types of things that matter..and you can add and delete.  That information is sufficient for the people that I know..and I cannot say that it will be for everyone.  With that in mind, there is an invite for the original poster to contact for details.
    I recall once, eons ago, someone interviewing me and kept on asking question on definition of terms on FMEA..I walked out for two reasons that I found that condensending and second it had no bearing on the deployment.  So if you hire a consultant asking those types of questions, it may prove that they do or do not knwo something but it does not give too much indication on their core competency.
    There are new interview techniques that help you interview and understand many aspects of a candidate without asking for 2+2 ewuals what?
    Sorry if I riled you up…I did not double check for clarity and if something that does not make sense is simply and indication of error on my part.
     
     

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    #176009

    Vallee
    Participant

    Ravi,
    Experience definiton has been clarified. Now for the rest…
    There is as a difference between answering a question about FMEA’s and whether you can explain why it does or does not apply to the current deployment being questioned. If the interviewer has some basic knowledge and has used this as his criteria to ensure the basics are met then that is the company’s choice. Kind of ties into the comment made about title, competence and soft skills.  If it offended you and you walked out then that was not a good match for either of you.
    It was not assumed by me that you gave an exhaustive list. The point being made is that there is no reason to give the list yet until the define phase of deployment needs was examined.  My analogy is selling a client software with all the bells and whistles and when they attempt to use they realize that they don’t know how it fits to what they really need. The list of needs then just becomes a pick list with no structured process.
    HF Chris Vallee

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    #176017

    Gregorio
    Participant

    I have found that the process of selection works best when the following template is used:
    Competency Model
    Weightings
    In depth behavioral interview (using competencies)
    Video answering one question (limit 5 min.)
    Process review with Exec team
    Deliberation/Selection – Exec team
    This process borders on assessment center corellations of .79-.84
    Good Luck!!

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    #176024

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    Darth,
    I thought about this post quite a bit over the weekend. It is difficult to really buy into the bigger is better philosophy in light of the current news around AIG and the other companies that are caving in right now. I am sure there have been a lot of decisions made around the safety of dealing with an insurance company of that size and at the end of the day the result is a failure that is so big it will take the government to fix it.
    We all watched the last round of the big guys like Enron and World Com colapse and everyone was horrified at the peoples lives that were destroyed. We created things like Sarbanes Oxley to keep it from happening again. We are right back in the same type of boat only it is an order of magnitude larger. All of our patches seem to just be delaying the inevitable. Who would have guessed that band-aiding problems doesn’t work.
    The multifacited deployment may look good particularly if you have developed a company around selling that type of a solution. You have to wonder about a Leadership Team that hires out a company transformation. Isn’t that their job? If you really need that type of a solution then maybe the real solution is to eliminate the Leadership Team and have the large consulting company report directly to the BOD. When the transformation is complete then you restaff the Leadership Team so that they are a good fit for the transformed company – kind of like outsorcing the “C” level. That of course is meant to be a bit sarcastic but the multifacited deployment doesn’t make any sense at all except to the people selling it.
    They are two distinctly different models. We have always sold knowledge transfer. Take the internal resources (who have the credibility within the company to effect change) and augment what they know with the Lean and Six Sigma skill sets. We don’t sell solutions to the problems in terms of fixing it but more in terms of helping them fix it. Everyone likes to throw out that old quote about the difference in giving someone a fish or teaching them to fish. All the original deployments were around teaching them to fish. There is absolutely no possible way that some outside consulting firm will walk into any company and know and understand first the technology of the company and second the company culture. If you take that lack of expertise and compund that problem with a lack of credibility because as a consultant you are always an outsider to some extent that should make the selling the solutions model pretty ineffective. If fact there was an entire book written by some guys from one of the Chicago newspapers about that. It is called “Dangerous Company.” I am not sure what happened to the book. It took off pretty quickly and then disappeared. Maybe it is back. I haven’t looked in a while. It did seem odd that it disappeared.
    We had a guy on here from one of those multi million dollar deployments in the government. Said it didn’t last. Not that one post means a lot. There does seem to be a lot of government people poking around looking for someone to fix their deployments. That takes a lot of nonsense on our end to comply with rules that we don’t need to deal with anyother customer driven by profit motive. Maybe their business model as a customer isn’t a good fit with our business? There were some interesting numbers around this bussiness (US only) that I saw in 1998. I will see if I can chase that data down. The market that we participate in is huge and 10 years ago it was dominated by the “two men in a truck model” (no intention to be gender insensitive that is just what it was called at that time – but then SS was also called a male macho manufacturing initiative at that point). I really doubt that has changed much but I will see if I can find similar data.
    Just my opinion.
    Regards

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    #176031

    Ken Feldman
    Participant

    Mike,
    Glad you gave this some deep thought. Certainly, I am not advocating BIG companies as a good thing and agree with your points. What I am finding in the marketplace is more and more “do the fishing for us” mentality than in the past where it was knowledge transfer. Maybe that’s a function of the current marketplace. I am afraid that the recent post regarding the Government transformation is not a rarity. Probably, more to do with the leadership of the organization than a failure on the part of the consultancy. I sense a cycle coming up where companies are abandoning the longer term hard work for the instant gratification of someone coming in and doing the work for them. I am seeing more Lean and less Six Sigma. We cycled away from that approach years ago and will likely cycle back out again in a few more years. But, meantime, we all make a decent living as long as senior leadership doesn’t do its job. I’m good with that.

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    #176034

    Vallee
    Participant

    Darth and Mike,Does it not make sense then to help a company first and then teach the company to be self sufficient second without a consultant? Or at least hire an internal consultant to work in the same phased approach? I know bad for business in one sense but more sustainable in the long run.
    HF Chris Vallee

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    #176038

    Ken Feldman
    Participant

    It is certainly one of the viable options. I do not know if there is one best way nowadays. Clients seem a bit more assertive in setting the direction of their deployments. Being right or wrong is not the issue but what they want and are willing to pay for. Unlike Mike and Stan most consultancies do not have the luxury of telling the client to take a hike. You learn to work within the constraints the client sets, do your best, document everything and hope it works. Not the best situation but it is reality for most.

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