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Shainin Methodology and Tools

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  • #32478

    Ivy
    Participant

    Besides what is published in “World Class Quality” (2nd Ed.), what is the Shainin methodology and Tools? Why are the tools and usage so top secret?  6 Sigma methodology is published all over the web.  I know some of the tools are; Convergent search patterns, measurement scatter plot, components search, paired comparison, product/product search, variables search, B vs C, BOB WOW, binary search patterns.  Some of these might be duplicated but, why is there such secrecy about the methodology and tools?

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    #86830

    Ashman
    Member

    It sounds like ether no one knows or they are too afraid to answer.  Why doesn’t this site or other web sites contain more information about Shanin methods?
    Good luck lewis on getting an answer!

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    #86833

    finder
    Participant
    #86835

    Richard
    Member

    You could also try the series of posts on the forum which started:

     
    Shainin Methodologies by jay on Saturday, 5th April 2003

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    #86845

    ADK
    Participant
    #86848

    Ron
    Member

    These are tools that the auto industry found useful prior to the advent of the six sigma tool set.
    Don’t waste your time on these. Go into the six sigma toolkit..you will be dollars ahead.
     
     

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    #86856

    Ivy
    Participant

    Thanks but been there done that. The Shainin institute keeps a lid on non-paying customers. But someone should have a clear map of the methodology that they teach there “Red X Masters”. Too many companies specifically look for Shainin BBs

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    #86857

    walden
    Participant

    A number of years ago I participated in a several day seminar presented by Dorian Shainin. At that time all attendees had to sign agreements that we would only teach the techniques within our own company and supplier base. In order to teach these techniques as a consultant, you needed to be “licenced” by the Shainin Institute.
    I don’t know if this has changed since Dorian’s death a few years ago.

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    #86867

    Mikel
    Member

    Real simple why they try to make them secret – because they are nothing special. They try to make you think Shainin has something special, but they are nothing special. The companies that are looking for Sahinin Masters are losers. They don’t get it. A good example is Chrysler.

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    #86957

    O’Connell
    Participant

    Stan
    I noticed that you spend alot of time on this site responding as an expert on several topics, and now Shainin and DaimlerChrysler.  Must be nice to have so much time.  I hope your place of business is reaping great rewards from you time well spent. 
    It seems to me that Six Sigma and Design for Six Sigma is nothing more than a collection of tools developed by various experts in Statistics and sold as a variation reduction program.  I don’t see Shainin Methodologies as any different than the rest except for the speed of execution and ease of use.  I believe that Shainin Methodologies are benchmark for speed of execution and ease of use.  It also uses statistics only when necessary and at every step of a problem solving process.  The problems people have are Physics and Geometry problems, not statistics problems.  Statistics is simply an insurance policy for you decision. 
     

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    #86958

    Mikel
    Member

    I agree. What is your point?

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    #87148

    Sander
    Member

    I think there are two reasons why there is so few information available about the Shainin tools and method
    The professionals that should propagate the tools find the tools not sophisticated enough and the few professionals that realise how good the tools are, keep them secret to make money out of it. To my opinion they should not be kept secret. Being a consultant on process improvement, I have used the tools with great succes. The tools are Green Belt tools par excellence.
    I have made a user manual to promote the usage of the tools, because I found that Green Belts don’t like text books so much.
    I have no objection to share  my manual with others. It could be put on the WEB, but I don’t know how to do that or if it would be illegal.
     

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    #87152

    Shree Phadnis
    Member

    Dear Sander pls mail me the manual at [email protected]

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    #87155

    Tom Homewood
    Member

    Keki R. Bhote’s book Strategic Supply Management, published by American Management Association has quite a bit of information on DOE ala Shainin.
     
    Tom

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    #87157

    Picklyk
    Participant

    Sander,
              Please send me the manual @  [email protected]
    Thanks

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    #87158

    Richard
    Member

    I’d also like a copy of the manual if it’s possible to mail it
    richardlevy(remove these brackets)@gmx.net.
    I’m not sure about the legal implications about distribution. I guess it depends where you go the information and what contracts you entered to get it.  To put it on the web, you just need a bit of space on a server (google search for free web space) and then post the link on this site.  I’d recomend that you look at the legal side first!
     

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    #87160

    CBetts
    Participant

    Please forward a copy of the manual to [email protected].  It would be greatly appreciated.

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    #87161

    walden
    Participant

    Sander,
    As another post stated, you should check out the legal implications before you do distribute the manual.
    I don’t know where you got this manual, but when I attended a seminar presented by Dorian Shainin all attendees were required to sign an agreement that we would only share the tools within our organization aand supplier base. This was about 10 years ago so things may have changed.
    I believe that one of the reasons why the publication and trainer base in the tools were restricted was to protect the integrity of them. Only those trained and “licensed” by the Shainin’s could offer training services. As with so many other methodologies, anyone wanting to make a buck would call themselves a consultant and teach the tools. A few examples of how this harms the reputation of good practices are:

    ISO 9000 consultants who will help you develop your QMS documentation. (I can’t tell you how many Quality Manuals I’ve reviewed where basically all that was done is re-type the standard and replaced “supplier” with the company name. This doesn’t say much for the 3rd party registrars who would accept this either).
    I’ve seen/heard of offers to obtain your GB/BB/MBB in one week. Don’t think that people won’t sign up and take this.
    I’m happy to hear you’ve had good success using the Shainin tools. I find it quite disappointing that there are so many negative posts on this site concerning them. Have used the tools myself, I don’t understand their negativism. I see the merits of Six Sigma even though the company I work at is doing a miserable job of implementing it. Although management uses all the buzzwords to preach SS, their actions prove there is no empowerment of staff or any infrastructure/culture to support SS.
    Best wishes,
    Chris

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    #87169

    JBasala
    Participant

    Sander,
    I would also be interested in looking at your maunal.  Can you send me a copy at: [email protected]
    Thanks in advance!

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    #87172

    PH
    Participant

    Sander,
    Can you send me a copy of the manuaal to [email protected]
    Thanks,
    PH

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    #87173

    Scott C
    Member

    Sander,
    I am very interested in seeing the manual too.  Would you please email it to me?
    Thanks in advance,
    Scott C.
    Email to: [email protected]

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    #87174

    Savage
    Participant

    Sander- please forward a copy of your manual to me as well. [email protected].
    Thanks for your help.

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    #87177

    Victor Gonzalez
    Member

    Sander : I will appreciate if you can send me the manual at  [email protected]

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    #87179

    David Gearig
    Participant

    Sander,
    I would like a copy too  [email protected]

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    #87180

    Gabriel
    Participant

    Sender,
    You are very kink sharing your material. You can put it on the web as an attachment to an existing forum post, for example your previous post. For instructions click “post/arttach document” on the bar at the right, or click here.
    It would be great as it would be available to everybody, including those who do not want to make their e-mail public. You also avoid to bother sending all those e-mails!
    If you decide not to do it, I would really appreciate if you could send it to me by mail: [email protected]
    Thanks!

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    #87181

    Groll
    Participant

    Please forward a copy to me as well at:  [email protected].
    Thanks.

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    #87184

    Schuette
    Participant

    Sander,
    I’d be very interested in getting your manual as well.  My address is:
    [email protected]

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    #87185

    Ken Butler
    Participant

    Sander ….
       I would be grateful if you could also email me the manual that you have referred to.
       Thank you very much
    email address:  [email protected]

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    #87188

    AKHILESH
    Participant

    Sander,
    I would be delighted to recieve a copy of your manual. 
    My id is [email protected].
    Thanks,
    Akhilesh.

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    #87193

    clb1
    Participant

      I attended a one day seminar given by Dorian Shanin several years ago and my impression at the end of the day was that his methods were good engineering but that they didn’t really offer anything that was better/cheaper/faster than what could be found in the standard statistics/QC literature. His presentation also left me with the impression that the tools were very limited in their ability to handle multivariate situations.
      Assuming that Sander is able to e-mail the manual to this very long list of interested individuals I hope that at least one of you will read it and report back to the rest of us concerning its contents.  Specifically, I would be interested in a post/article that gives a side-by-side comparison of any one of the Shanin tools and the equivalent tool available in the statistical literature.  It would be very helpful to see the pluses and minuses of each method when applied to a given problem. I have made several attempts to find such an article in the refereed statistical/QC literature and I have had no success. 

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    #87194

    Khandekar
    Participant

    Sander,
    Could you please email a copy of the manual to me at
    [email protected]
    Thank you.

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    #87198

    vetch
    Member

    please send me a copy as well at [email protected]
    thanks in advance,
    regards,
    vetch

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    #87209

    Mikel
    Member

    Sander,
    I, for one, do not want your manual. Too many people want something for nothing on this forum.
    Besides, my Six Sigma training included Shainin tools. MultiVari, PreControl, IsoPlot, Component and Variable Search, and Realistic Tolerancing (Tolerance Parrallelagram) are all covered. What is wrong with your training that you did not cover these topics? All Black Belts and Green Belts should know their uses and limitations.
    None of this stuff was original thought by Shainin, by the way. That is why the Bhotes can continue to publish them.

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    #87216

    CPC
    Participant

    Please e-mail me a copy of the user manual as well. Please send it to [email protected]

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    #87222

    YF Gao
    Member

    Sander:
    Appreciated if you can copy me at [email protected]. Thanks!

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    #87223

    Cheryl
    Participant

    Sander,
    Would you consider posting you manual here so people don’t have to post their email address? I try not to because I receive so much spam as it is.
    To post your manual just follow these directions:
    https://www.isixsigma.com/forum/attach.asp?messageID=29122
    If you are the owner of the manual, I don’t think that you should have any issues.
    It’s wonderful of you to share your manual! Thank you.
    Cheryl

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    #87241

    Greg B
    Participant

    Sander,
    I would appreciate a copy of your manual as well.
    My e-mail: [email protected]
    Many thanks,
    Greg

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    #87290

    Tom Homewood
    Member

    I would appreciate a copy of you manual.
    Thanks,
    Tom

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    #87340

    Steve Krizan
    Member

    I am greatly interested in Shainin.  I am an ex GE Lighting BB trained way back in ’97.
    Please send me a copy of your Shainin Manual to: [email protected]
    Thanks

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    #87351

    Hans
    Participant

    Bhote is like many of the wnna be consultants. He attempts to discredit one thought to give credence to his thoughts.
    I would avoid his diatribes, shainin, and any philosophy that has not with stood the test of time.
     
    Hans

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    #87355

    Scott M
    Member

    Sander,
    I am very interested in seeing the manual too.  Would you please email it to me?
    Thank You,
    Scott
    Email to: [email protected]

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    #87358

    John Adamo
    Participant

    I would also appreciate a copy of the manual
    [email protected]

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    #87371

    Fredy Hernandez
    Participant

    Sander,
    I’d be very interested in getting your manual as well.  My address is:
    [email protected]
    Thanks
    Fredy Hernandez
     

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    #87376

    Sinnicks
    Participant

    Please send me your manual:  [email protected]
    I’ll do some comparing to the seminar manual I have.

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    #87377

    hector lugo
    Participant

    Sanders,
    Can you share the manual? e-mail is [email protected]
     
    Thanks

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    #87383

    Gaussian
    Participant

    Sander,
    I’m very interested in Shainin techniques and I would appreciate your manual posted to me.
    Thanks in advance
    e-mail: [email protected]

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    #87390

    Yadwadkar
    Participant

    Sander,
    I would appreciate if your manual posted to me.(by you or by anybody to whom you had forwarded)
    Thanks in advance
    e-mail: [email protected]

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    #87482

    Wagh
    Participant

    Daer Sander,
    Pls mail me a copy of the Manual to [email protected]
    Regards,
    prasad
     

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    #87485

    zhou
    Participant

    Dear Sander,
     
    Can you email one to me at [email protected]?
    Thanks

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    #87491

    aroskic
    Participant

    Sander,
    by now you must have been flooded with similar requests. However, I would really appreciate it if you can send me a copy of the Shainin manual at [email protected]
    Thanks in advance.

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    #87492

    David Hevel
    Participant

    david
    Gosh, with so many looking for a copy of Shainin. there must be something to it.  I’m a past Shaininite from the automotive sector and I can tell you, that in the right hands, it’s both a cost effective and efficient problem solving tool. But then so are so many other approaches.  In my experience there are no magic bullets out there, not even Six Sigma.  Like so many other tools it is the craftsman that makes the tool work.  It surely helps to have a good tool to start with but ultimately it’s up to those engaged in the problem to solve it.  The human capital is the best place to put our investment of time and energy.   We’ve got to have a variety of tools available because each problem has it’s own issues.  I always liked the direct measures Shainin employed  and it strongly resembles Six Sigma in that way.  Just some thoughts that probably do little to reduce the tools anxiety.  Mostly we should relax a little and learn not to use a chisel for a paint can opener.

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    #87569

    Dillon
    Participant

    please add me to the growing list of those interested in a copy of the manual on Shainin methods.

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    #87570

    tnmartin
    Member

    Sander —
    I would also be grateful if you could e-mail the manual to me at
    [email protected]

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    #87730

    Ivy
    Participant

    With so much interest in Shainin tools maybe isixsigma.com should include this in their information. Personally I think any tool that can help solve any problem is worth sharing.
    But you must know the tool excises before you can learn the benefits.  Shainin can make a profit off their software and certification.  Sharing the tools should be freeware
    How else can we pacify the so called big three if we don’t get better. Or, maybe if all their suppliers joined forces they could help the big three see the importance of treating their suppliers with respect.

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    #87731

    says
    Member

    Mr. Sander, I would greatly appreciate receiving the Shainin manual you refer to.  Please mail to [email protected]

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    #87739

    Rajanga Sivakumar
    Participant

    Dear Mr.Sander,
    I shall be grateful if you can share your manual on Shainin Methodology with me. Thanks for the offer. My e-mail id is [email protected]
    Thanks
    Rajanga

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    #87740

    Venkatnarayan
    Member

    Mr.Sander
    I know by now you must be tired of sending your reference manuals to this many requests. This is another request for the reference manual and would like to have a copy for my reference. Could you please send this to the mail id [email protected]
    Thanks in advance
    Venkat

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    #87744

    Sanjeev Nawani
    Member

    Please post a copy of manuls or a url to [email protected] too.
    Regards
    Sanjeev.

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    #87753

    Marc Richardson
    Participant

    Please send me a copy of  your manual also.
    [email protected]
    Thanks

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    #87755

    Gaussian
    Participant

    Sander,
    I’m very interested in Shainin techniques and I would appreciate sincerely your manual posted to me.
    [email protected]
    Thanks in advance

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    #87760

    Ron
    Member

    Why? Are you a historian?

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    #87805

    Eileen
    Participant

    Mr. Sander,
    I would like to learn more about Shainin tools and method.  Please send me a copy of your user’s manual. 
    Email: [email protected]
    Thank you.

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    #87807

    Bergeron
    Participant

    Can you send a copy of the manual to me at [email protected]. Thanks.

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    #87810

    Wara
    Member

    Also please send me manaully to [email protected]. Thank you so much.

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    #87811

    Tirthankar Dasgupta
    Member

    Dear Sander,
    I am deeply interested in knowing about Shainin methodology and tools. If you can send some details (maybe selected portion of your manual) as an email attachment, I shall be greatly benefited. In case the attchment is too big for my hotmail account [email protected], please mark a copy to [email protected]
    With best regards
    Tirthankar

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    #87966

    Roderick Munro
    Member

    If you are still following this thread Sander, I would also appreciate a copy of the manual that you have created.  Thank you.

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    #87967

    Rip
    Member

    Hello Sander.  I, like so many others posted here, am very interested in Shainin techniques.  I would be grateful if you would send me a copy of the manual.
    [email protected]
     
    Regards,
    Rip

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    #87975

    Hans
    Participant

    Shainin methodology was a consultants approach to problem solving. It was not data rich and therefore was easily understood by many who find the six sigma methodology beyond there means to understand.
    It had unsophisticated tools like find agood one find a bad one and compare them.. DUH!
    Precontrol was another tool that just did not work and was not accepted.
    So if you are looking for a nice historical novel to curl up with on a cold night grab a book on Shainin.  In fact I think there are still some people out there especially in the automive world that went through some of the Shainin training and talk to it. Many responded here.
     
    But just like people who admitted they voted for GW they are becoming fewer and fewer…one day poof noone will admit it.

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    #87976

    melvin
    Participant

    Or they were no good to begin with and they still are no good!  Really guys how about taking some training courses that have been offered in the last twenty years..
    Shainin obviously is not one of them..
     
    Enough Said !!!

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    #88002

    Irl Sanders
    Participant

     
    I would appreciate very much to have a copy of your manual.   I took the SM courses many years ago and found that Shainin’s tools are by far the easiest and the most practical.   I also took courses in all the other methods in use at that time.  The End Count Method is great for zeroing in on the most likely possible causes of the problem.   It saves a lot of time from chasing after non-significant variables.  In most cases I can find the problem without use of formal statistical tools so haven’t had enough practice with Shainin’s Methods in recent years.   I now have an application for component search and hopefully you can help refresh my mind.
    The great power of SM is that it teaches you how to quickly and easily narrow down the number of possibilities to a manageable few for final experimentation.   With other methods you usually end up with very large complex and unmanageable experiments where is easy to get lost, make mistakes, and take so long that uncontrolled variables, such as ambient temperature, are changing too much.  The frustration becomes so great that many people give up.   Therefore most statistical tools are not much help for people who don’t thoroughly understand the process they are trying to trouble shoot because they can dream up too many possibilities.  
    SM helps an expert troubleshooter who is not very familiar with the process to get to where they can ask someone who is knowledgeable but not a good trouble shooter:  “ Tell me two or three things that could cause this response?” 
    Shainin teaches you how to collect data that will characterize the type of variability and pushes you to focus on the few things that are most likely to cause the patterns you see in the data  (I need very simple common sense tools). 
    Process Capability Studies and Control Charting (for a limited time) can also be very powerful tools and I have used them with great success.
    Thanks,
    Irl

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    #88032

    dangwal
    Participant

    dear lewis,
    from what I see, the simplicity of the shainin tools makes it not very palatable to statisticians. however, these tools are fairly simple and cery effective. I have myself used them to sort out plenty of problems including problems that were upto 7 yr old and the companies had decided to live with them. there have been cases where, the SM was not the only technique used, but I prefer to first try SM. only when it fails to narrow down the suspects beyond a point, I use more statistcal tools.
    when u get the manual from sander, i would suggest u first try KT tools to narrow down the definition. and then use SM to trim it further. in case your prime suspect is more than 1 use further classical tools, else decide the action and judge its effectiveness by B vs C.
    I will not be able to say more in general. do let me know if there is a specific querry.
    regards,
    nitin

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    #88046

    Aldous Wong
    Participant

    Sander,
    If possible, please send the manual to [email protected]

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    #88182

    Larry Whitmarsh
    Participant

    There is no real secret, Dorian never put it any type of organized text.  Although many had urged him to write his concepts for others, it didn’t happen.  Although Peter may some day write a book about his Dad’s concepts, he’s probably to buzy making money?  Nice problem. 
    Delphi and Central Foundry have done the best I have found in the training manuals they have put together.  I have been using Dorians tools from about 1985 on and off.  First taught by Dorian and later by Merel Noakes.

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    #88186

    Nikunj
    Participant

    Dear Sander,
    I am quite interested in knowing about Shainin methodology and tools, after going through the discussions posted in here. If you can send your manual as an email attachment, I shall be grateful to you  if you could mark copy either to  [email protected] , or to  [email protected]
    With best regards
    Nikunj

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    #88447

    D ofori
    Participant

    I am interested in obtaining a copy of your manual – could you email it to
    [email protected]?

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    #88923

    jeromy timmer
    Participant

    Sander,
    Please send me a copy of the Shainin Manula that you mentioned.  I’m interested in learning more about his methodologies.  Send to
    [email protected]
    Thank You,
    jeromy

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    #88979

    Ties
    Member

    Hallo Mr. Sander,
    please e-mail me your script to: [email protected]

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    #89070

    P.K.
    Participant

    Did anybody get the manual by e-mail?
    Thanks in advance.

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    #89072

    Scott C.
    Member

    P.K,
    No, I have not received it by email.
    Scott

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    #89073

    P.K.
    Participant

    Why doesn’t that suprise me?
    Thanks for replying so quickly Scott.
     

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    #89311

    spchokka
    Member

    Hi sander,
    Please send me a copy of your user manual to [email protected]

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    #89690

    Harrie
    Participant

    Sander I am very interested in your manual, could you please send it to me [email protected]

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    #89694

    Tsimpson
    Member

    I would be very interested in obtaining a copy as well….could you e-mail me a copy.
    Thanks in advance.

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    #89696

    GONZALEZ
    Participant

    Hi Sander,
    Could you please e-mail me a copy of your manual to [email protected]
    Regards.
     

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    #89697

    Ronald
    Participant

    Sandler-
    I would like a copy of your manual as well.  Thanks in advance.
    Lee
    [email protected]

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    #90188

    Jeff G
    Participant

    I’m interested in the manual too.    Do you need help posting? I can help you with that.
    Remove the 4 from my address. 
    Thanks,
    Jeff

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    #90544

    Yurdakul
    Member

    Dear Sander,
    could you please e-mail your manual to me too.
    [email protected]
    Regards
    Bülent
     

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    #90548

    Ron
    Member

    The Shainan methodology never received much scrutiny or application. It was almost unique to the auto industry where it was only limited use.
    Some of his ideas held metrit but nothing new or revolutionary. Once again you have a handful of consultants trying to pitch their barrel of apples.
     
    If you are going to spend engery spend it on Lean and Six Sigma metodology.
     
     

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    #90567

    Anna O’Connell
    Participant

    Sander – If you would please e-mail me a file or send a URL link where you posted your Shainin Tools Manual, I would appreciate it.  Email is [email protected]
    I’ve used BOB/WOW, Red X / Green Y, and some of the clustering tools, and am interested in learning to apply others.  
    Thanks for offering to share your work. 
    Anna O’C
     

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    #90569

    Ralferr
    Participant

    Sander,
    If you could you  e-mail me your Shainin Tools Manual or a link to where it is posted I would appreciate it.  My Email is [email protected]
     
    Thank you,
    Bob 

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    #90570

    clb1
    Participant

     The list of people requesting the book from Sander gets longer and longer.  Has anyone actually gotten a copy from Sander?  If you have, have you actually read it?  If you’ve read it how about posting some comparisons of methods – Shanin vs DOE etc.

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    #90845

    Gearhead
    Participant

    Dear Sander,
    Please email me a copy of your manual also.
    Thanks,
    Gearhead

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    #91028

    NKKhoo
    Participant

    Did anyone actually get reply from Sander on his kind offer?

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    #91211

    Cadoret
    Member

    Please send me a copy of  your manual also.
    [email protected]
    thanks

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    #91701

    Steve H
    Member

    Sander,
    Could you please send me a copy of your manual aswell
    [email protected]
    Best Regards
    Steve

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    #92008

    Peter M
    Participant

    Sander:
     
    Please send a copy of the manual to me at [email protected]. A valuable piece of work. Thanks
     
    PM

    0
    #92010

    Alex Chai
    Participant

    I’d like to have a copy of it too! So that I can use to apply it on my study. Thanks alot.
    Alex
    [email protected]

    0
    #94263

    Jacobo Tijerina
    Participant

    Sander
    Please share me a copy of your manual shainin Methodology and tools
    my e-mail: [email protected]
    Thanks very much

    0
    #94367

    Bimal Tanon
    Participant

    Dear Sander
    I will be thankful if you please send me copy of maual you have developed. My email is [email protected]
    Bimal Tandon

    0
    #94691

    John Mogford
    Participant

    Sander,
    Can you please forward a copy of your manual to me as well.
    Thanks,
     
    John Mogford
    [email protected]

    0
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