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Six Sigma at Japan

Six Sigma – iSixSigma Forums Old Forums General Six Sigma at Japan

This topic contains 113 replies, has 72 voices, and was last updated by  Reci 11 years, 2 months ago.

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  • #27419

    Sankar Das
    Member

    Many of the Japaneese companies are one of the best in the world. They had implemented QC, SPC etc. very successfully. What is the status of Six Sigma in Japan – any one knows?

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    #67095

    Praneet
    Participant

    Hi Sankar
    As per survey conducted a typical Indian company would be in the range of 2.5 – 3 Sigma an American in the range of 4 – 4.5 , whereas an average Japanese Company is at around 5-5.5 Sigma and this is without even implementing the Six Sigma Initiative

    Regards

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    #67098

    Craig S.
    Participant

    Praneet,

    You wrote: “As per survey conducted a typical Indian company would be in the range of 2.5 – 3 Sigma an American in the range of 4 – 4.5 , whereas an average Japanese Company is at around 5-5.5 Sigma and this is without even implementing the Six Sigma Initiative”

    Everything I’ve heard places American companies around a 3 sigma level. If this is the case, where do the other countries lie?

    Anyone else heard American companies are at 3 sigma?

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    #67100

    Rajanga Sivakumar
    Participant

    It would be interesting to have inputs on the possible typical sigma levels in the US, Europe, Japan and India. One great fallacy in the understanding of six-sigma companies is the conclusion that all there processes operate at near six-sigma levels! In actual fact from what I understand there are very few processes which are at six-sigma level even in Motorola, GE, Allied Signal, TNT etc. But the six-sigma FOCUS and EFFORT is great and needs full support as it makes way for continuous improvement in proceeses to meet customer requirements and changing customer requirements. At least two Indian Software companies have achieved greater than 5 sigma performance in errors per 1000 lines of code.

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    #67107

    Ken K.
    Participant

    While I cannot provide specifics, let me assure you that my Motorola business’ products have indeed maintained a Sigma level considerably greater than 5 Sigma for many many years. Certainly the manufacturing processes involved in creating those products are even higher.

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    #67164

    Leung
    Participant

    I, too, have heard that many American companies are at about 3 sigma. Don’t know if there is any hard data on this; I suspect its based on personal experience. I do not know of that many companies who go to the effort of determining process capabilities, however.

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    #67234

    Sambuddha
    Member

    Mr. Das,

    I feel what Rajanga has said has value.

    6-sigma doesn’t mean that a company will operate all its manufacturing/business processes at 6-sigma level.
    Motorola was six-sigma in its Critical To Quality (CTQ) characteristics only. That gives you the biggest bang for the buck.

    Moreover one has to ascertain what sigma level one needs to operate by understanding the Voice of the Customer and the design requirements.
    For example, I would not get into a 6-sigma aircraft, I don’t think any one else would (if anyone made one:-))

    I work with a production supervisor from Toyota -Ishikawa San, and he tells me that in Japan the folks might be doing 6-sigma or their version of it, without knowing the glorified name the rest of the world has given it.
    Besides, they are far ahead of the rest of the world in implementing Poka Yoke, Design for Manufacturability & Assembly that have kept them in good stead in terms of defect rates.

    They seem to be people who don’t like tolerances – they make the machines to build their products and fix processes if something goes wrong.

    That would be a different paradigm….Wouldn’t it be?

    Best,

    Sambuddha

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    #67235

    “Ken”
    Participant

    Sam,

    You mention some interesting points concerning selected Japanese industry. I believe Toyota is either on top, or close to it. Did you have the opportunity to ask your contact in Toyota if the conduct DOE’s from time to time. If so, would he know the specifics, i.e., do they still work with Taguchi’s designs? or, are they now working with more conventional DOE approaches. Just curious…

    Thanks,

    Ken

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    #67240

    Anonymous
    Participant

    This is Six Sigma, cite your references for this alledged data. Sounds like cowboy data to me (pulled from where the sun does not shine).

    Everyone is speaking of Japan like it is a single mindset. There are a few outstanding Japnaese companies, the one associated with Toyota and Honda come to mind. The rest are just as bad as the rest of the world.

    There are a few outstanding American companies. The American consumer electronics folks, excluding personal computers, come to mind. They are all above 5 sigma or out of business. GE is not that good, they just compete in non competitive areas. They are not to 5 sigma dispite all of their hype and the flood of GE “experts” into the consulting field.

    I suspect the same is true elsewhere. Talking about countries, cultures, regions, etc is dangerous and potentially prejudgous. There is no homogenous mindset at play outside of the few great company cultures like Toyota, Honda, Motorola, …

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    #67241

    Anonymous
    Participant

    This is Six Sigma, cite your references for this alledged data. Sounds like cowboy data to me (pulled from where the sun does not shine).

    Everyone is speaking of Japan like it is a single mindset. There are a few outstanding Japnaese companies, the one associated with Toyota and Honda come to mind. The rest are just as bad as the rest of the world.

    There are a few outstanding American companies. The American consumer electronics folks, excluding personal computers, come to mind. They are all above 5 sigma or out of business. GE is not that good, they just compete in non competitive areas. They are not to 5 sigma dispite all of their hype and the flood of GE “experts” into the consulting field.

    I suspect the same is true elsewhere. Talking about countries, cultures, regions, etc is dangerous and potentially prejudgous. There is no homogenous mindset at play outside of the few great company cultures like Toyota, Honda, Motorola, …

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    #67261

    Sambuddha
    Member

    Ken,
    I will ask Ishikawa San about your question.
    He was in the production side, so he will be able to talk about DOE-s or Taguchi methods applied to optimizing the manufacturing processes.

    And you bet, the Japanese thought process is very interesting….

    Talk to you later,

    Best,

    Sambuddha

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    #78451

    aush
    Participant

    I have worked in a japaneese concern in Japan . Thogh I do not have a hard data to compare countries with my experience I will certainly place Japaneese working striving to reduce variability. They do not name or use words like ISO QS or Six Sigma but their approach towards variability is quite unique.
    One of the basic differences i have noticed is the effort that goes into  planning  an activity , cooperation or the team work and  an attitude towards Data collection.  
    Decisions are purely based on data and do no not like anyone talking without data. They do resoect experience but it is always backed up with data.
     

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    #86173

    D
    Participant

    I realize this is a very very old thread, but I
    just have to say my experience in japan is just the
    opposite. The average japanese company has little
    teamwork, does little research before trying to
    solve a problem, and lacks a method for process
    organization. Only the top companies have these
    things.

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    #86174

    Kulkarni
    Participant

    Six sigma?  There is not six sigma in Japan.  TPM is the followed methodology(5 Pillars).  Some six sigma is incorporated into TPM to enhance.  Bottom line is cost down and increase market share.  Who cares what methodology is followed as long as this is achieved. 

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    #86176

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    Blackbelt,
    I have trained a few BB’s at little companies like Sumitomo and NEC. I think you missed something.
    Good luck.

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    #86188

    D
    Participant

    I agree.  Japan is not the homogenous monolith of teamwork and group ethic that everyone thinks.  Its no different from any other company.  There are differing methods and differing opinions everywhere.

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    #86190

    zhangyu
    Member

    I konw about the most Japanese companies do not use the SixSigma tools now?

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    #88996

    CG
    Participant

    What is the acceptance of statistics and statistical tools in Japan, in support of various quality initiatives?

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    #94175

    Vinod S Parihar
    Member

    Dear All,
    From last 15 years I had been interecting with Japanese nationals from different industries. And during this period of time, I have not met even one Japanese person who does’nt have six sigma awareness.But they call it by different names. And the complete concept of six sigma is implement from the day of the inception of a company or industry.In Japan all the value addition and value engineering (VAVE) activities are carried out for better quality with a SIX SIGMA concept in the back of their mind.
    5″S” and KAIZEN are integral part of Six Sigma.
    Warm Regards,
    Vinod 

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    #94176

    MN
    Participant

    5S and KAIZEN are not integrated in the Six -Sigma concept.I think we should not mix “orange’ with “apples”.Many Japanese experts believe only in TQM (the Japanese way:QWQC),some  of them believe that Six-Sigma is another (uptodate)modification of the orginal TQM’s concepts,such as CTQ for CS,DMAIC for PDCA……..etc.
       Let us define concepts and try to separate :Six-Sigma is  different than TQM,Please go through the previous discussion  in this FORUM.Afterall mixing concepts will lead us to no-where,regards.
                                                                                      MN                                                                        

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    #94190

    MN
    Participant

    I agree with that.

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    #94191

    MN
    Participant

    Most American successful companies are between 4 to 4.5 Sigma.

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    #100322

    bablu
    Participant

    The Six Sigma concept has got ___________.

    Value addition
    Data
    Guarantee
    All of the above
     

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    #100995

    Sakthi Kumarasamy
    Member

    Japanese companies use different names for what we call six sigma. They call Efficient Factory project, TIE Projects etc to name it and most of the Japanses companies have some improvement projects going all the time.

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    #101350

    DCM
    Participant

    Sorry all. Maybe the wrong area to post.
    I’m looking for inside tips on who I can contact in Japan for 6Sigma training whether its in-person or online training. Any advice greatly appreciated.
    Thanks
     

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    #103330

    Nwajei
    Participant

    I spent 3 years in Japan studying a Master of Science Degree in Company Wide Quality Control, and never heard about “six sigma” by itself, however, all the techniques I learned in Japan I am applying when I came back and got my Master Black Belt certification.
    In japan, they don’t call us black belt, the call us Quality Engineer, but the methodology and technique is much more advanced than six sigma beacuase they excell in  team work ,discipline, and customer service even in any grosery store.
    Thanks
    Frank

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    #103331

    Nwajei
    Participant

    I spent 3 years in Japan studying a Master of Science Degree in Company Wide Quality Control, and never heard about “six sigma” by itself, however, all the techniques I learned in Japan I am applying when I came back and got my Master Black Belt certification.
    In japan, they don’t call us black belt, the call us Quality Engineer, but the methodology and technique is much more advanced than six sigma beacuase they excell in  team work ,discipline, and customer service even in any grosery store.
    Thanks
    Frank

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    #103343

    Anonymous

    Frank,
    This was also my experience in working for a Japanese company.
    In fact, the idea that a six sigma performance guarantees a defect level is a fallacy  – even if one also allowed for an unnecesasry 1.5 sigma shift, and the reason is simple. Quality is about matching components; therefore one has to take both the distribution of the component, the distribution of the mating component, and the interferene into account. Concerns about interference is an acknowledgement that the distribution in question is bivariate: but this is a simple case – real processes and devices are often more complex, and matching problems can occur with many subsequent process steps.
    Clearly, a bivariate distribution can have defective components even when both the component and mating components have distributions that achieve six sigma performance!!!
    This is why process self-assurance and poka yoke play such an important role in Ikko Nagashu – single flow.
    Isn’t it about time we all get back to quality engineering ….
    Andy Urquhart

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    #108484

    vinod parihar
    Member

    Hi Vinod,
    Six Sigma is big and it works like this the smaller the size of the community the larger the awareness of better tommarow and Six Sigma is all about that.
     
    Regards
    Vinod Parihar

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    #114681

    chhabra
    Participant

    give me information about six sigma in japan

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    #119668

    Piotr
    Participant

    Frank,I fully agree with you. I’m working 7 years already with Japanese people, and they know all about the method and techniques that are so “brilliant” called outside Japan as a “Six Sigma” , but for them this is nothing special. They are truly more advanced in all areas related to the quality engineering, problem occurrence prevention, problem solving etc..Piotr

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    #119669

    Dayton
    Member

    Bunk.
    Vinny

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    #119670

    Paul Gibbons
    Participant

    Did you mean ‘bunkum’, as in claptrap.
    Named after Buncombe, a county of western North Carolina, from a remark made around 1820 by its congressman, who felt obligated to give a dull speech “for Buncombe”.
    Well Thats what I thought of the comment. I worked for Honda for 3 years and visited their plant in Japan; opened my eyes to the real Japanese manufacturing!
    Paul

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    #119671

    Paul Gibbons
    Participant

    PS,
    Claptrap comes from ‘a theatrical trick to win applause’
    How appropriate in this forum;¬)
    Shall we have a claptrap section for all the bunkum?
    Paul

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    #119672

    Dayton
    Member

    Close.   I meant “bunk” as in:  3: empty talk; nonsense 4: unacceptable behavior (especially ludicrously false statements) 5: a message that seems to convey no meaning
     
    Definitions 1 and 2 referring to SoBe bunk beds I did not mean.   
     
    So, “bunkum” as in claptrap is OK, “bunkum” as in opportunistically achieving close quarter sleeping arrangements, an extrapolation of “Book-em Danno”, I did not mean.  
     Vinny

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    #119673

    Paul Gibbons
    Participant

    I see you meant the slang of bunkum; bunk and not the bunk-bed bunk that one usally relates bunk to;¬)
    Thanks for clarifying, I think I will do a bunk (English slang, do you use it in the US?)  now and get on with some work;¬)
    Paul

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    #120062

    WRB
    Member

    We should copy them. I have my doubts about Six Sigma. GE has no competitors, now.

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    #120065

    Nihar Senapati
    Participant

    Six Sigma is a process centric methodology…an organization can’t claim to have acheived six sigma process improvements across all the processes.  So it will be easier and bolder to state six sigma improvements across a certain prcoess or more. In brief, truly speaking a six sigma company is a rare to find..again it is a quest for continuous improvement. And errors per KSCL  is a measure which company ‘A’ might use for specific image set of SW and not broad the broad range of products the company is developing.

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    #132482

    Eddy
    Participant

    Japanese software development is a failure.
    There seams to be a big difference between software and hardware in Japan. A Japanese friend summed it up as “Japanese software developers don’t think software development is a repeatable process”. I do not know how big the problem is, but the people I have talked to seam to think software development in Japan is in a worse state than the US.

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    #136679

    ToyotaSludgeTruthseeker
    Member

    Many “alledge” sludge in Toyotas. The fact is that Toyota has
    a major sludge issue; it does NOT take responsibility for it,
    however.Some “alledge” that Toyota and “sludge” are synonymous.ToyotaSludgeTruthseeker

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    #139514

    Naren Reddy
    Participant

    SIX SIGMA might be hyped by the companies like GE, Honeywell or MOTOROLA. But my insight about japan is they too much satisfied with TPM what they founded. And they are succesffull now by the company like TOYOTA leveraging their network worldwide faster and becoming more profitable whereas western automotive companies like FORD, GM are facing downtrend even in their home countries itself.

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    #150282

    Jeff
    Participant

    I am sorry but I have to disagree on this one… Quality concepts/framework should not be tagged as totally different from the other, it is rather an integration of best practice. It is not a concern of what structure to use but what would be the most optimal strategy to apply. For instance, when you say DMAIC is different from PDCA…in essence, you may find alignment from these two and later realize that same concepts apply. The setback of differentiating such practice is confusing to the practitioner raising fear as to what framework to use where in fact such practices are linked to one another. A good practitioner for me is not the person who only knows the semantics but is able to go beyond nomenclature and find links to these strategies and custom-fit it based on process needs.

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    #150286

    Mulcahy
    Participant

    I heard that six sigma was set up by the Japanese secret service as a plot to destroy US industry.

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    #150287

    Marlon Brando
    Participant

    Thank  You  for  your  great  sense  of  humor:This  can  be  considered as  “the  joke  of  the  year”??

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    #150289

    Marlon Brando
    Participant

    Thank  You Cam.This  can  be  considered  as  “Joke  of  the  year”?

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    #150294

    James Bond
    Participant

    No – the CIA set up Six Sigma to destroy US industry :-)
    James

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    #150295

    Koru
    Participant

    It was Japanese religious sect and they set out destroy all industry, not just US, using six sigma.

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    #150297

    luke skywalker
    Participant

    It was actually the Evil Empire and some guy named Darth  ;-)

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    #150302

    Praveen Gupta
    Participant

    Estimated Sigma level for Dow 30 companies came out to be 3.6. My experience tells me that an average company that has not initiated Six Sigma like effort would have Sigma level between 2.75 – 3.25. Of course any company may have a process sigma level at 6 or close to it. But having one or two processes may not be sufficient to move company sigma level.
    In 1992, Motorola’s sigma level was estimated to be 5.2 or 5.4, something like that. To my knowledge, no other company has reported corporate sigma level.
    praveen

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    #150303

    Mikel
    Member

    Praveen my old friend.
    Responding to a five plus year old post? Trying to sell your conjured sigma levels again?
    You don’t have the data.
    BTW the sigma levels at Moto were mainly Comm and AIAG. Cellular never fully bought in, their factories were a joke – half the andon lights on the equipment on at any given time.
    And the sigma level of the marketing decisions?
    Conjure me the sigma levels on a group of arrogant execs who think they are world class.

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    #150305

    Darth
    Participant

    And I set it up not to destroy the Republic but to make all SS consultants filthy rich especially the Evil Dr. Harry, Sweet Stan, Clever Carnell and all the other brothers of the SS Consultants Consortium.  May outrageous billing reign!!!!!.  Luke, hope you had a good holiday and that the New Year brings stability and progress at the Funny Farm.

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    #150309

    Marlon Brando
    Participant

    No
    JamesBond  is  a  british agent,so UK  is  behind the plot?

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    #150311

    Marlon Brando
    Participant

    Agree
    The  real  father  of  Six  Sigma  was : Sixismoto Sigamata
    Bill  Smith  ,Harry,Stan ,Darth  and  all  the  other  Gorus have  stolen  the  concept later?

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    #150329

    Vladimir Prusskin
    Member

    Why not Japanese companies got six sigma disease ?

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    #150337

    Marlon Brando
    Participant

    Because  they  are  satisfied  with  the  TPS and  theTaguchi’s concept..They  have  created  their own successful TQC and  apply  it since 1960 (world-wide).  

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    #150339

    Larry E
    Participant

    Because Deming taught the Japanese management how to avoid the “deadly diseases”.  Ch3 “Out of the Crisis”

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    #150340

    Mikel
    Member

    These comments are very biased. All Japanese companies are not alike. Many do Six Sigma. All American companies are not alike. Many are part of TPS.
     

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    #150343

    Hetchner
    Member

    Perhaps you’d like to name some of the “many” Japanese companies that do SS … I think the Japanese are much smarter than that.  The Japanese are not like the US lemmings that have jumped onto the SS bandwagon of hype and nonsense.
    The Japanese own their success to Deming, whereas the US turned its back on him.

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    #150346

    qualitycolorado
    Participant

    Regarding Japanese companies that use Six Sigma:  Honda, Sony, Canon, and Hitachi come to mind.
     
    Honda’s operations in America (Ohio) have been especially effective in their use of Six Sigma.
     
    As noted in other replies, other Japanese companies have used other quality roadways.
     
    Best regards,
    QualityColorado

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    #150347

    Mikel
    Member

    You don’t know much, do you?
    Ever heard of Sony?

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    #150348

    Ashman
    Member

    You are wrong about Canon … I’ve worked with them.
    You are also wrong about Honda … they use Quality Circles http://www.hutchins.co.uk/NW_Toyota.aspx
    I’ll check the others …

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    #150349

    qualitycolorado
    Participant

    Steve,Thanks for your note. I believe you are mistaken about Honda. I have heard presentations from their Teams which have participated in the ASQ “Team Excellence Award” process, such as the ones listed in these articles:http://www.asq.org/media-room/press-releases/2006/20060329-international-team-summaries.htmlhttp://www.asq.org/media-room/press-releases/2005/20050404teamexcel.htmlThe Teams said their problem-solving process was Six Sigma. Honda’s efforts evolved from its original Quality Circles efforts, so that may be where you have gotten mixed up (and, they still enter “Quality Circle” competitions, too).
    Best regards, QualityColorado

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    #150351

    1576;1606;1583;1585;2020
    Participant

    الرجاء إرسال ملافات سيكس واود التعرف على امراءة جميلة

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    #150352

    Hal
    Participant

    You are confused (or perhaps trying to mislead readers).  Your links make no mention of Honda using six sigma.  Honda uses Quality Circles. 
    “Honda Cars Makati, Inc. (HCMI) scored a major victory when it won the Gold Award in the 2005 Productivity Improvement Circles National Convention “
    http://www.hondamakati.com.ph/Ver2/News&Events/Default.asp?IDs=19&Submit=CN
    Honda even runs its own supplier Quality Circles competition :
    http://www.weastec.com/home.nsf/continuous%20improvement?OpenForm

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    #150354

    qualitycolorado
    Participant

    Hal,I believe you may have been misled, but not by me.1. Yes, Honda has used Quality Circles for many years, and yes Honda also uses Six Sigma. Quality Circles and Six Sigma are NOT enemies; they are compatible and complementary. Honda is proof of this. There are some who mislead others by saying that Quality Circles and Six Sigma are separate, and cannot work together. Honda (and others) have disproved this notion. The people on the Teams from Honda that are referenced in my prior links are the sources that indicated they use Six Sigma, when they made their ASQ Team Excellence Award presentations (in person). 2. Honda is also encouraging its suppliers to implement Lean & Six Sigma practices. To help its suppliers, it is partially funding (along with U.S. Department of Labor and others) Lean Six Sigma training — this link contains details:http://www.doleta.gov/brg/pdf/Adv%20Man_OH%20TechSolve.pdfThis is part of the U.S. President’s “High Growth Job Training Initiative”, which Honda is part of:http://www.doleta.gov/BRG/JobTrainInitiative/
    3. Interestingly enough, some Japanese companies see Six Sigma as being useful, especially for large companies, but as part of Total Quality Management (TQM) — very different from typical attitudes in the U.S. about Six Sigma and TQM. At the risk of making generalizations, Japanese companies generally seem much more willing to accept and practice multiple quality improvement tools simultaneously, whether in their Japanese locations or outside Japan. Some in U.S. would say this cannot or should not be done, but I beg to differ. We in the U.S. still have plenty to learn from our Japanese (and other) colleagues, including this lesson: Quality Circles, Six Sigma, Lean, TQM, PDCA, and other parts of the quality improvement discipline CAN be practiced together, and in fact SHOULD be practiced together, simultaneously.
    Best regards,QualityColorado

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    #150355

    qualitycolorado
    Participant

    FYI … Another Japanese-based company, Hitachi, appears to utilize Six Sigma, at least in these operations:http://www.hitachi-koki.com/2006pdf/QA.pdf http://www.visiprise.com/pdf/VisipriseHitachi%20Case%20StudyFINAL.pdf http://www.isa.org/InTechTemplate.cfm?Section=InTech&template=/ContentManagement/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=42072
    Hitachi, like some other Japanese companies, appears to be utilizing Six Sigma in conjunction with other tools and methods of the quality improvement discipline, including Lean.Americans still have plenty to learn from our Japanese (and other) colleagues, including this lesson: Quality Circles, Six Sigma, Lean, TQM, PDCA, and other parts of the quality improvement discipline CAN be practiced together, and in fact SHOULD be practiced together, simultaneously.
    Best regards,
    QualityColorado

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    #150356

    qualitycolorado
    Participant

    A smaller Japanese company in the information integration industry, Matsue-Links, starte utilizing Six Sigma in 2002:http://www.mitsue.co.jp/english/history/chronicle.htmlIt is also ISO 9000 certified …
    Best regards,QualityColorado

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    #150358

    Nolan
    Participant

    QualityColorado,
    Many thanks for pointing out that some overseas Japanese factories use Six Sigma. Do you have any references for factories in Japan?
    I was interested in buying a Honda – I’ve now changed my mind and I’ll stick with Toyota.
    Many thanks!
    Les

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    #150367

    WS
    Member

    HelloYou can also add Toshiba to the list…

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    #150368

    saddam Husien
    Member

    This  is  not  a  Sex Forum,you  dirty  idiot. Go  and  make  another  research  and  stop  annoying  us  here.I  don’t  believe that  pretty women  are  interested  to meet  such  a  jerk  like  you .

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    #150382

    Six Sigma Shooter
    Member

    Here’s a good article that explains why Toyota may not be all that thrilled with the six sigma approach.  Also points out why most – if not all – “lean” companies in the US miss the mark.
    http://sme.org/cgi-bin/find-articles.pl?&ME06ART83&ME&20061210&PUBME-71.144.81.169&SME&

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    #150383

    qualitycolorado
    Participant

    Six Sigma Shooter,
     
    Thanks for the SME magazine article!
     
    Best regards,
    QualityColorado

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    #150389

    Nolan
    Participant

    You might like to check out this link as well.
    Les
    http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/98/debunk.html

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    #150400

    Mike S
    Participant

    You stupid half wit … both Toyota and Honda use Quality Circles.  If they used six sigma they would be going down the toilet like Ford and GM.
    Have you ever actually compared the junk made by Ford and GM to Toyota and Honda cars ?

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    #150410

    Six Sigma Shooter
    Member

    Thanks for the link, Les. 
    I note that Sprint / Nextel is listed as a “Six Sigma” company.  I used to have Nextel and Sprint as my cell phone and landline providers.  Their customer service was so terrible, I dumped them like a bad habit, even though it means I can no longer have a landline, as they are the only provider in my little part of Texas.  The problem with many so called “six sigma companies” is that they only focus on their own internal cost cutting, with no view of the customers ,whatsoever.  There are no continual improvement methods or approaches that will save companies from stupid management decisions and short term thinking.  Viva Deming!

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    #150412

    Almost a Blackbelt
    Participant

    I worked at one of those plants almost a year ago as a Quality Engineer.  It was a tier one supplier north of Dayton Ohio and they knew I had six sigma certification when I was hired.  They did not use it nor did they grasp it well when I tried to use it.  A senior managements response to my main effects plot was that you could never look at responses to more than one variable at a time!  I tried showing another manager some Chi Squared data on the analysis of some benders we had in our hydroforming department and the defects that were produced.  The information was good but never acted upon.    Quality Circles was big and I did see a little similarity to Six Sigma teams as I was on one of the teams.  I was told that Honda had their own program for quality certification in Marysville and that Six Sigma was not used.

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    #150413

    Alvarez
    Participant

     “nor did they grasp it well when I tried to use it”
    What didn’t they grasp ?  3.4 DPMO ?  They were probably laughing at you !

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    #150414

    howe
    Participant

    I definitely agree … Viva Deming !
    There’s lots of other problems with SS besides lack of customer focus … for example, Deming’s point 9 “Break down the barriers between staff” – SS belts has the opposite effect.
    It’s amazing how SS has survived so long on hype, BS, and nonsense numbers.

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    #150415

    Almost a Blackbelt
    Participant

    They may have been laughing at me, but their ignorance was costing them quite a large amount of scrap and lost dollars from the bottom line.  3.4 wasn’t even close for them.  And their steps above the American car companys.  Scary. 

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    #150419

    Alvarez
    Participant

    Idiots like you who believe in 3.4 are scary.

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    #150427

    Nolan
    Participant

    I think the boot’s on the other foot!!!!! You drivel-head.
    I drive a Toyota! What does that say about you!!!!

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    #150428

    Yoshi
    Member

    Japanese companies are very flexible. If a person would like to use statistics to solve a problem, that is OK. If the person wants to find all the defects, that is OK too!

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    #150430

    PK
    Participant

    Six Sigma follows a ‘Process Approach” to tackle the business process problems. The Japanese have been using the “Process Approach” from the beginning, the “PDCA” cycle. Six Sigma too follows the “PDCA” cycle. Japanese give more stress to Planning and Sustainability stages. Whereas, the Six Sigma approach gives least preference to Sustainability of the things, which in many cases leads to failure of Six Sigma implementation. But it is not the Six Sigma Approach that fails, the appraoch to Six Sigma is a failed one.
     

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    #152231

    Darth Vader
    Participant

    Luke, I am your father!

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    #152232

    Darth
    Participant

    No, you are an idiot so go find yourself another name to post under.  Darth has been taken for many years by me so go think of something creative.  By the way, the Luke who posts here knows who his daddy is so leave him alone.

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    #152500

    yun
    Member

    dear All,
    Can anyone advise 6sigma BB course held in Tokyo area ? Course in English is preferred but Japanese is also OK. I need info Asap.
    thank you, yun

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    #160878

    Morales
    Participant

    I recently contacted Honda. They assured me they do not use Six Sigma.
    So let’s get this straight, Honda does’nt use 6 Sigma or Six Sigma.
    Home Depot and Motorola do use Six Sigma.

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    #160879

    Brandon
    Participant

    Julio – it’s just a symantics.
    I assure you Honda uses databased decision making to improve their processes.

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    #160880

    fake accrington alert
    Participant

    Toyota as  well.
    They  use TPS instead

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    #160881

    Morales
    Participant

    Frankly, I suspect you Six Sigma guys see the future comming and do not like it. We stockholder hold you responsible for your failures.
    You claim Toyota and Honda, when these great companies disclaim your methods. Toytoa openly endorses W. Edwards Deming who you people often discredit.
    You fail to claim, 3M, Motorola, Guidant, Ford Motors, GE whose stock underperforms, Home Depot.
    Can you explain for me the failings of these openly Six Simga companies?
    Six Sigma fails for refusing to focus on the customer.
    Lets focus on Home Depot shall we?

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    #160882

    Morales
    Participant

    No, its fact v failure
     
    Tell me of Home Depot and Six Sigma or Motorola or 3M and 6 sigma?

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    #160883

    Brandon
    Participant

    “We” are not a homogenous group of Six Sigma’s.
    SS has its place just as do many other skill sets required to run a company. It is in no way the sole solution. I, for one, would NEVER subscribe to that position.
    If you dislike “us” so much then go play somewhere else.
    PS: I hold stock in numerous companies & my investment strategies have little to do with a company implementing SS or not.

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    #160884

    Morales
    Participant

    Fair enough, however, why do you suppose six sigma consultants claim Honda and Toyta, who both disclaim six sigma and now six sigma consultants never mention Home Depot, 3m and Motorola?
    I submit, you don’t want me to play since I play too rough; I ask tough questions of six sigma.

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    #160885

    Cubs1908
    Participant

    I hate jumping in on 6 year old threads, but I felt the need.
    By your logic we can also state that the Taylormade R7 driver is a failure because I use it and my results are terrible.
     
     

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    #160886

    Brandon
    Participant

    Julio – there are those among us whose elevators don’t go all the way to the top.

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    #160888

    Mikel
    Member

    Julio,I like a good rant as much as any one on here, but I swear I’ve never seen anything on here or anything written where six sigma and discrediting Deming are connected. I don’t know where you get this.There are serveral of us on here who are students of Deming and nothing could be further from the truth.As far as Honda, Toyota, … not using Six Sigma -. They have a strong culture where improvement is in the fabric of how they do business daily. Most companies are not like that though and there is money to be taken for the benefit of the customer and shareholder. That is where Six Sigma plays.As for your statement of “we stockholder(s)” – what a joke! What do you own stock in and how much?

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    #160889

    Mikel
    Member

    Julio honey,
    I like guys who play rough. What SS consultants claim Honda and Toyota? I think you are talking sxxt.

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    #160893

    fake accrington alert
    Participant

    Six Sigma failed  because of  the “Certificate Syndrome”,everybody  is looking to  become GB or BB without  appropriate experience and  real  qualification.Passing  the  test does mean that you  are  capable,lacking  of  change  management techniques,etc.
    Fist  efforts  should  be  carried  out  to  re-engineer the status of “Belts”,considering  the  high  salary scales vs.  the poor  performance.

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    #160895

    Severino
    Participant

    Trying to argue against the benefits of Six Sigma is like trying to argue against continuous improvement.   Many of the same tools that are in the Six Sigma toolbox are used by Honda and Toyota whether they officially use SS or not.   It is a collection of tools and techniques to reduce variation and improve business processes.  Don’t think that you will walk through Toyota and Honda facilities and not find a control chart, or a capability study, or a FMEA, or a histogram, or a process sigma measurement.  Don’t think you won’t find a regression analysis, or an ANOVA, or a project charter, or a statistician.
    As far as the dilution of belts goes, my feeling on the subject is this.  Even though individuals may claim competence (sp?) in areas and actually be lacking, on the whole the drive of many companies and organizations to promote belts will ultimately increase worldwide awareness and acceptance of quality improvement and statistical techniques.  I truly believe that this will begin to pave the way for a golden age of innovation and drive society to ask the right questions. 

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    #160899

    John W
    Participant

    Saying someone using a control chart means they are using six sigma???… give me a break. The reason they appear to implement six sigma is because all tools used in Six Sigma programs are actually a subset of the Quality Engineering. Control charts, ANOVA studies, regression analysis and every other quality tool used by six sigma are decades old and used by dozens of other quality control systems that have come and gone over the years. Six Sigma was heavily inspired by quality improvement methodologies dating back to the 1920’s. The idea of defects stacking upon one another is discussed in a paper by Bender in 1962 regarding probability methods for handling limit stack up tolerances. Ever hear of 1.5 sigma? IMHO six sigma’s novelty is to design to what the customer identifies as critical, and control variance in the manufacturing process so that failure occurs less than 3.5 times per million opportunities in those areas the customer identifies as critical to quality. Or said another way, if something is not critical to a customer, don’t design the tolerances on those areas so that you fail your product based upon something the customer cares nothing about. But as I mentioned, these ideas are decades old. And 3.4 parts per million is 4.5 standard deviations above or below the mean, not 6.
    Belts? Don’t get me started on belts. I’m one, but having the benefit of a post graduate education I was using all of the “six sigma” tools before I was “certified.” I view the new belt bureaucracy as little more than parasites who are busy trying to justify their high priced salaries. And I hold a dimmer view of the legions of consultants who are catering to the training need. I hate to burst your bubble my friend, but Henry Ford didn’t need belts, Toyota didn’t need belts. No one really needs belts. The only thing necessary is a team culture, a commitment to identifying/mapping processes, identifying waste, and designing a stable output so that it meets critical customer requirements 99.999997% of the time. To design to critical customer requirements means you actually have to have a dialog with your customer. Go figure…

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