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Six Sigma at Toyota

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Viewing 19 posts - 1 through 19 (of 19 total)
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  • #35971

    Gerry Polesky
    Participant

    Personally, I believe Toyota has been so successful is because they follow the Deming 15 points.  Very simple yet the results are phenominal.  We in the US continue to make it more difficult than necessary and as a result the harder we try the farther behind we get.  Incidentally Japanese companies don’t strive for six sigma they strive for zero defects. 

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    #102298

    Ken Feldman
    Participant

    I was unaware that Dr. Deming has created an extra Point since his death.  No wonder other companies cannot compete with Toyota, they are only using 14 of Dr. Deming’s Points.

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    #102300

    Mikel
    Member

    You don’t remember point # 15?
    Deming’s 15th point – Forget all about systems, experience, and hard work; there really is instant pudding.
    Embrace that one and you can minimize all those other messy 14 points.
    Also known as Deming for Dummies.

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    #102301

    Gerry Polesky
    Participant

    You are correct in that 14 were published.  In studying him, talking to him, reading his works many times and spending time with him I determined there was a 15th.  This was “Keep it simple.”   Although a statistician he emphasized descriptive statistics (Control Charts, Run Charts, etc) in solving problems, which is what the Japanese companies use.  American companies have introduced the need for deeper statistics to resolve problems and still aren’t successful.

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    #102304

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    Gerry,
    Keeping it simple works for a while. At some point there are technical issues that need to be resolved and descriptive stats won’t do it. Everyone seems to want to run to the stats – nice formulas, pat answers, etc. Deployments don’t fail because someone can’t figute out the confidence interval around the mean. They fail because of the environment that Six Sigma, TQM, Lean etc have to function in. I do believe that the complete name on the 14 points had something to do with management. If you really did spend that time with Deming then you are also well aware of his position on management.
    Toyota does have a thing called Toyota Production System. The third major step in the process is Continuos Improvement and Continuous Improvement has Kaizen and a Breakthrough strategy. It is in the book.
    Good luck.

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    #102306

    Ken Feldman
    Participant

    Ah, my mistake, I didn’t realize there were Deming’s 14 + Polesky’s 1 Points.  Hey Stan, you better get a copy of Polesky’s 1 Point to put on your desk with Deming’s 14 and I will procure his picture to put next to Deming’s picture on my desk :-).

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    #102309

    Gerry Polesky
    Participant

    I am well aware of his views on management, but eventually realized that management was also a part of the system, and changed his view from amanagement problems to system problems.

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    #102310

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    Gerry,
    Separating management from the system is like picking fly s__t out of pepper.

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    #102317

    BeenThereDoneThat
    Participant

    Gerry:
    Nice to hear from you,
    Alastair

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    #102318

    Taylor
    Member

    As in hard to do or fun to do?

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    #102321

    Mikel
    Member

    I’ll not be altering the 14 points any time soon.
    Gerry does raise an interesting question though. Does management need to be reminded that the best systems are the simple systems?
    I tell everyone that there are two basics to judging the outcome of a good six sigma project – the system must be changed and the system change must be a simplification.

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    #102325

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    Todd,
    Typically hard. Change the top person and it is fun to watch them try to figur out which part to separate themselves from.
    good luck.

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    #102326

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    Stan,
    Complicated isn’t bad any more than simple is good. There is another saying that is the flip side if KISS: “for every simple solution there is an unsolved problem.”
    We have JDI’s (Just Do It) projects. The solution is known. If you track the successful implementation of JDI vs SS the JDI’s dont make it to fruition or don’t last. Now every thing goes through DM&C.
    Appropriate is pragmatic.

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    #102328

    Mikel
    Member

    Mike,
    Go look at the sustainable solutions out there, most are simplifications of the system.
    All? Of course not – but as an image to put out there, it is a good thing to have folks think about as they formulate the solutions.
    Example mistake proof vs SPC.

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    #102329

    DaveG
    Participant

    Maybe Mike Harry took Point #15, applied the 10:1 rule, and derived the 1.5 Shift (rimshot).

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    #102332

    DaveG
    Participant

    That’s because Mistake Proofing eliminates or nullifies root causes, while SPC merely detects them.
    In my personal experience, solutions are usually known but everyone avoids implementing them.  I can only guess why.  I was amazed the day a worker showed me that her pneumatic press, as designed and built, could stroke and take her fingers off after it was switched off – and this was old news to her.

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    #102340

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    Stan,
    The solution is simple but the analysis doesn’t necessarily happen simply. The earlier comment that Deming was a proponent of discriptive statistics insinuated that was the extent necessary. Simple analysis frequently leads to the “known” solution or the wrong solution. The classic example is study temperature and pressure in a system separately and you will not get to the correct answer. Another example was ionoc contamination after wave soldering and the known solution was handling and having everyone wear gloves – the answer was the specific gravity of the flux was higher than spec because some local guru felt it fixed solderability issues that were actually caused by long storage times and uncontrolled conditions. You remember that?
    Solutions are simple but the analysis method to get you to the solution does not necessarily have to be.
    Like to stick around but it is vacation time.
    Vaya con dios.

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    #102343

    Mikel
    Member

    Agree 100%.
    Have a nice rum drink for me (or maybe a bottle). Or try a little Sangrita con Tequila con limon (my personal favorite these days).
    Vaya con dias.

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    #132432

    Joe Shepherd
    Participant

    Hi Gerry,
    I have tried to locate you for some time.  I was a student with you at ASU West in 2003.  You left and were moving to North Carolina last I heard.  This is the first time I found a later response from you.  Please send me an email to [email protected]  I would like to talk to you. 
    Thanks
    Joe Shepherd

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