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Six Sigma – iSixSigma Forums Old Forums General six sigma consultants

  • This topic has 23 replies, 15 voices, and was last updated 18 years ago by mmf.
Viewing 24 posts - 1 through 24 (of 24 total)
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  • #29920

    r k arora
    Participant

    Dear All ,
    Who are the best consultants in India for Six Sigma and how much they charge , the basis of the charge ?
    Thanks in advance for your reply ,
    arora
     

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    #77421

    Cannizzo
    Participant

    Arora,
    You may want to search the forum archives for “india” as this topic has been discussed in the past. I don’t believe that rates was discussed…since so few Six Sigma consultants are based (or consult) in India, you may just want to contact them for a proposal.
    Good luck.
    –Carol

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    #77423

    Niraj Goyal
    Participant

    Hello,
    Contact me at [email protected]
     
    regards
     
    Niraj

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    #77433

    fernando
    Participant

    Arora,
    We can send you a proposal. Mail us at [email protected] for further information.
    Regards… Fernando (MBB)

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    #77449

    r k arora
    Participant

    Dear Sir ,
    i would like to know hom much the consultants charge in India for six sigma training and what is the basis .
    Tks
    arora

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    #77451

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    RK,
    Rod Howes is delivering the zero cost/guaranteed results programs in India at this time. He can be reached at [email protected].

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    #77452

    arora
    Participant

    Dear Mr goyal ,
    We are a 100 cr chemical co and I want to convinve the mgt for six sigma project.
    We employ about 300 persons with 4 plants .
    What will be the cost for such a project.
    aroar
     

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    #77456

    fernando
    Participant

    Mr Arora,
    We have a proposal ready to send. Please send us an e-mail address at [email protected] or place it at the forum, as you prefer.
    Best Regards… Fernando

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    #77464

    Ron
    Member

    Many profess to be consultants few are.  Check resources, check history, check results.
    Many people are industry specific. Spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on outside consultants is usually pouring good money after bad.
    Convince your management to spend 50K on training at a recognized six sigma academy and train the trainer. Your organization will be better off in the long run!!!!

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    #77473

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    Ron,
    I agree with you to a certain extent. The SS world has become littered with the people who want to be consultants. Unfortunately when they do comparisons they usually get a shopping list that may or may not be an actual client. In many cases they are sighting the work of people who are long gone. It can also be a company that has hired one person who was on a deployment. You can sidestep the issue by looking at the credentials of the people who are working for the firm. What have they actually done? If you look at the people that are employed by on http://www.SixSigmaCo.com you will find people from Motorola, Allied Signal (wave I) etc who have been at this for years. They have seen a large cross section of industries and more than one deployment. They are all MBB’s who have trained many other MBB’s. Remember that a consultant who is training MBB’s has to be competent enough to be a MBB to MBB’s.
    There are also basic differences in deployment models. Some have employees some contractors. Some have their own material (variation reduction) and some have contractors with their own material. Some do projects some do not. Lots of variation. You might want to find out what model suits your needs.
    As far as industry specific. If they understand the tools and have worked projects there is no such thing as industry specific. The tools work on data. A colum of data is a column of data and it really doesn’t matter what industry it came from. If you understand the methodology – it transfers. Reference Mary Walton “The Deming Management Method” Chapter 19. Page 95 “Anyone that comes to try to help us must understand all about our business.” What Deming refers to as an obstacle to improvement.
    I would not hire a consultant unless someone involved in the hiring process had read “Dangerous Company.” ISBN 0-8-8129-2634X or ISBN 0 14 02.7685 8 (not sure why there is two) Authors are O’Shea and Madigan.
    As far as the $50k, I think it is a huge mistake. As long as ROI is guaranteed of you are on a percent of savings the risk is next to nothing. That approach would be reasonable only if you did not understand the amount od money being lost to COPQ. It awill also cost time and potential lawsuits in the area of IP if they choose to develop material internally no to mention the cost of debugging it.
    Consultants can add value provided as a company you stay engaged. The thing you hear frequently is “when the consultants left everything went back to the way it was.” That is typically when a company hires a consultant to do a “corporate makeover.” Just like on Oprah you get a look at what could be but if you cant do the hair, buy a new wardrobe and put on the make up – tomorrow morning is going to be worse.
    Although Ron and I have differed on some points the message is consistent with Dr Demings fourth point “Stop awarding business on price tag alone.” Although there seems to be a lot of people who want to be philosophical around this and trough out a lot of guru quotes, when they get to price they revert back to the same method that they use to buy pencils for the supply cabinet. If you are really going to deploy Six Sigma with any integrity and you believe you are investing in the work force then give them a break. Figure out what you need (not what you want) and buy it.
    Good luck.

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    #77476

    Simon S.
    Member

    Wow,
    Could there be more promotion of services in this thread? Arora only asked for consultant rates in India, not for everyone to hype their companies. Let’s stay on target with the question people are asking. Doesn’t isixsigma frown on promoting services, anyways?
    Simon

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    #77479

    Sambuddha
    Member

    Ron,
    I agree with your general comments. But, why would you spend 50K when your people might not know how to deploy Six Sigma. In that case that 50 K is a waste, because now what you have are :

    an expenditure of 50 K
    trained people with an open ended purpose, who might be confused as to what to do after training
    My assumption here is that your company and personnel are new to Six Sigma.
    I agree with Mike Carnell on the deployment aspects that he mentioned. I am not a consultant, but I think that if you clearly know what you need, you can have a meaningful symbiotic partnership with a consultant.
    A big part of Six Sigma is about change. And change process goes through a series of phases that require direction and support. A good consultant can guide you through this. Many times people unfamiliar with this want to skip steps. That only creates the illusion of speed and never produces satisfying results.
    Another aspect is leadership. If you have a company that has too many managers and not enough leaders, training alone will not produce significant results. Management’s goal is to keep the current system operating by optimizing risk and resources. How will breakthrough happen then?
    Change by definition requires creating a new system, which naturally demands leadership.
    A consultant who has been through different deployments knows this. They can show you the way that involves least shock to your business. I have seen people get their own idea of Six Sigma and try to implement it and end up with a very different animal at the end.
    That is where a “good” consultant could be valuable.Not one of those self-styled, acronym rich, dream peddling consultant, but a good, principled, dependable consultant who, more than anything else wants YOU to succeed.
    Best,
    Sambuddha 

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    #77483

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    Simon,
    Wow, Six Sigma is about dealing with data. Now if I were engaged in self promotion this would be a fact: I would be speaking about my own company. Since the name of my company is Six Sigma Applications the self promotion is not a fact. So wow, what do you think now?
    Wow there was a response after Arora that went other places than the price of services in India. You might want to follow the whole thread as well.
     
     

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    #77484

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    Sam,
    The characterization of a symbiotic relationship was probably very acurate. If there isn’t a common good and a common focus you probably have the wrong consultant.
    The basic plan should have a plan on how the consultant leaves (the conditions that should exist). I haven’t seen any deployment that is going to really take hold last over 2 years and the last year is really very light involvement.
    There is a thing that consulting companies do called mining. They get inside the company and spend part of their time identifying more work. Next thing you look up it is 10 years later, they are still there, they have cubicles and company badges. That isn’t a common good approach.
    In Six Sigma International (which does not do business any longer – it merged so it is not self promotion) we took the approach that you do when you break a horse to ride. Once you get on the first thing you do is get back off. That way the horse knows you are only temporary. We did contracts and completed them and pulled back out. Our subsequent business was almost entirely referal. That was the model we believed represented a common good.
    Thanks for the vote of confidence.

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    #77489

    Sambuddha
    Member

    Mike,
    You are welcome.
    I know we are digressing here, yet it is important, SS practitioners shared their experiences about consultants, and how they made it work. I understand that many of us look at $X000 a day consultant fees and expect nothing short of miracle cure pills from them, yet, that fails for the same reason, why buying a “degree” from “Get a BS., MS, Ph.D degree for just $49.99” emails don’t work.  
    I can relate to this behavior personally as I have seen both good and not so good interactions with consultants. Our Six Sigma consultants were excellent as individuals but the company itself did not have an exit strategy, I believe (or maybe we did not create one for them). There were no plans to gradually taper off their involvement. Instead there was a “drop”. It took time to recover. We were all in suspended animation like a possum in the middle of the road. A team of passionate individuals took charge and turned it around, eventually. Yet, the initial momentum  was lost, and in a change initiative, you know that is critical.
    Our Lean consultants did a good job, in my opinion –  in the respect that our SS consultant were deficient. They chalked out a plan outlining the gradual transformation into Lean and % participation by the consultants over time etc. Result; We know how we are doing against the target; We know when the consultants need to go; The consultants know when to start writing case studies (they don’t have company badges to return).
    Lesson Learned: Have a plan to utilize your consultants’ expertise. Don’t be passive and ask for “everything in a platter”. Set a common vision, commitment and clearly outline phases in which breakthrough will be achieved. Define what would constitute self-sufficiency at the very outset.
    My $0.02 worth.
    Best,
    Sambuddha

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    #77490

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    Sam,
    I appreciate your $.02 worth. I think you made a lot of great points. The reason I recomend the book “Dangerous Company” is that a lot of good companies have been lead down the path by consultants. It is a chance to lean from some other peples mistakes.
    Take care. Thanks.

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    #77491

    Ashok
    Participant

    Mr. Arora
    You can contact me at [email protected]
     
    Ashok
     

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    #77494

    Ron
    Member

    Talk to companies that have utilized consultants. Don’t read books about them.

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    #77506

    Sorour
    Participant

    Mike,
    “Wow” does your response to Simon make you look childish.  What a shame, I usually associate your name with really good advice. 
    Simon,
    I agree with your observations.  Also, as an occasional participant on this message board, I’ve notice Mike C doesn’t like to be challenged.
    Paul

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    #77507

    Anjan Roy
    Participant

    The cost depends on your overall objective.  Are you looking for a deploying a full scale Six Sigma Business Strategy? or your intention is to merely use Six Sigma for some core process improvement projects?(the get some quick cash flow — as most companies do)
    My recommendation is that you first take a basic one day overview of Six Sigma to understand its full power and implications before even thinking of launching a Six Sigma initiative.  It will be also advisable for the senior management to get some basic expsoure to Six Sigma and then deciding on the scale and duration of implementation. The cost, the return on investment and the overall value of Six Sigma initiative will to a large extent depend on its actual intent and the planning process.
    It is very hard to give a cost figure without knowing the scope of service and the benefits desired.
    If you need more information or help in this matter, please contact me at [email protected]
    The power of Six Sigma lies in the vision!

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    #77510

    shawn
    Member

    Hi Arora,
    Thoroughly confused huh? It will be a good idea to speak to companies in India who went thru the process. Speak to WIPRO, Tata Quality Management Services and even Pidilite. They all have embarked on this process, some with the help of consultants and some after their core team got trained.
    Good Luck
    Regards
    Shawn

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    #77538

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    Ron,
    Since I do consulting the people I am talking to do use consultants. I don’t entirely disagree with your opinion. Thr reason I recomend the book “Bad Company” is because there a lot of companies that have been taken for a ride. Thr book provides some great examples of where companies have lost control and what the damages were. In most cases it seems the companies lost control or abdicated control to a consulting company. The point is if you are going to engage a consulting firm get a plan. Not just how they get into your company but how you get them out. Getting them out needs to include the transfer of owmership. An open ended relationship doesn’t usaually go well for the company.

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    #81829

    Riyaz
    Member

    Mike,
    Could you pls give me more details(Author,Cost..) about the book “Dangerous Company” ?
    Our’s is a software company & we’ve hired a Six Sigma consultant. Will this book be of any use to us?
    Thanks in advance.

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    #81832

    mmf
    Participant
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