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Six Sigma/TQM – Which is Better?

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  • #26905

    Craig Oren
    Participant

    Hi Everyone,

    I run a small quality group for an electronics manufacturing company. I’ve currently been using “typical” qa methodology, but with all the latest news and articles on Six Sigma I’m thinking of potentially changing methodologies. (I know they’re all based on the same principles, just implemented differently.)

    I’ve read how GE and Allied have made tremendous advances with Six Sigma, and now Ford and maybe other automakers are jumping aboard. TQM has been around longer and if the companies who used it were more strict in measuring and recorded financial benefits, we’d probably see about the same magnitude.

    So I’d like to implement one. The hype is Six Sigma, but I also know that training costs a bunch and I have limited capital. Is anyone else in a similar situation and what did you do?

    Any helpful hints?

    Thanks for your help,
    Craig

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    #65397

    Sorour
    Participant

    Hi Craig,

    I work at Allied and can tell you first hand that Six Sigma is a terrific methodology for improving processes. I have to tell you also that I haven’t used TQM (formally) at all.

    Six Sigma is so flexible it can fit any of your transaction or manufacturing issues. I’ve used it in both personally and have saved my small group over 2MM this year alone!

    I think that others are seeing the benefits of the Six Sigma methodology, hence Ford is implementing etc.

    Good luck with your choice.

    Paul S.
    Allied Signal

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    #65398

    Bill L
    Participant

    I just implemented Six Sigma for my small business and think that it’s tremendous — the employees love The involvement and methodology, the management team loves the financial benefits, and I love the success of the program.

    I think that both are built on the same guidelines, but just go about it a slightly different way.

    Good luck,
    Bill

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    #65399

    william wang
    Member

    I used to work for AlliedSignal and I’m a BlackBelt.Also I’m writing a MBA thesis for TQM. Actually Six Sigma is a part of TQM but sold by different name by different guru. There are three types of implementation strategy: Selective implementation,Engineering focus TQM and Organizational wide TQM. Since you are the head of quality group, I will not encourage you to implement Six Sigma but you can apply some six sigma methodology. Six simga will need intensive investment and the ROI period will be 5 years or even longer. You can find TQM ROI article from PIMS,CQM journal (Center Of Quality Management) etc.

    Just my two cents.

    William

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    #65400

    Sinnicks
    Participant

    Hi William,

    Thanks for posting your message on Six Sigma ROI. I was a litle concerned about your analysis. I can’t imagine that it would take 5 years for the return on investment. Is that what Allied and GE experienced? Doesn’t it depend on the amount of staff you have deveoted to quality?

    Looking at the materials, with one BB providing about 1 million dollars of ROI, how could it possible take 5 years?

    I also think that Six Sigma differs from TQM in the formality of the methodology. It is a given procedure that can be used every time (modified of course). TQM just seems a little too unstructured.

    What are your thoughts?

    Mark

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    #65401

    william wang
    Member

    Hi, Mark:
    The Black Belt saving or ROI referred to opportunity savings only. That’s one reason why somepeople have different view of “Six Sigma”. You can see two articles from http://www.qualitydigest.com “Six Sigma: Fad or fundamental?” “Who Needs Six Sigma Anyway? (Past issue, May)
    Vinod Singhaland Kevin Hendricks conducted a study of the stock performance of almost 600 quality award winner. Compared with companies didn’t implement TQM,the first 5 years ROI difference is not “statistically significant”. That’s why some Malcolm Baldrige award company meet financial problmes just after several years. You can read the article “The Financial Justification of TQM” at http://cqmextra.cqm.org/cqmjournal.nsf. You also can find a lot similar articles about TQM and financial impact.
    Six Sigma is labelled different from TQM.But DMAIC process is same as PDCA cycle by nature.All tools are existing tools. That’s why so far no six sigma guru can be considered as “Master” as Deming, Juran. Some six sigma company fail because they focus too much on zero defect and even forget the customer.That’s another reason people think Six Sigma is management fad.Six Sigma just utilize more structure and powerful tools such as DMAIC and DOE, so they are veryuseful to solve complex problems (both technically and socially). But TQM has its limit too. Not everything can be solved by Six Sigma.
    All in all, Six Sigma (TQM) is a long term investment, don’t hope to see short term return; Rebember the customers all the times.
    This is my personal opinion only.

    Best regards
    William

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    #81155

    P.NATARAJAN
    Participant

    Hi william
    is it really true that 6S is a part of TQM.infact i thought it on the otherway around.because if we go according to the method of DMAIC,it covers all the quality tools also. anyone can you throw some light on this part.

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    #81401

    danny
    Participant

    Hope this helps.  Just some research I gatherred when reading up on Six Sig. 
     Info comes from “The Six Sigma Way”  by P. Pande, R Neumwn & R Cavanagh
                                    

    TQM

    Six Sigma
     

    Lack of Integration

    Links to all levels of the Business

     

     

    Warning signs included a “quality council” made up of delegates rather than of the core management team.  Middle mangers were left out of the decision process and problem solving authority was handed to teams over which they had no official control. 

    Six Sigma becomes part of the job for all levelsof the business.  Mangers of the area have an incentive to remain in control of the processes.

    Leadership Apathy

    Leadership commitment

     

     

    Top management was not actively engaged in leading the process.  Quality felt temporary.

    Six Sigma is synonymous with constant reinvention of the business.  Top management must make the decision that change is essential to continued success.

    Unclear Goal

    Setting a No-Nonsense, Ambitious Goal

     

     

    No way of measuring progress towards a goal or of identifying changes in requirements.

    A clear goal is the center piece of Six Sigma.  The progress of new initiatives can be tracked accurately.

    Failure to Break Down Internal Barriers

    Priority on Cross Functional Process Management

     

     

    Departmentalized focus.  Improvement projects were done in isolated chunks.

    Six Sigma breaks down organizational barriers to help create a smoother, more effective and efficient company – eliminating rework created by disconnects and miscommunication.

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    #81415

    Withheld
    Member

    Danny,
    Those comments were obviously written by a 6s salesman. Every comment under the TQM heading is negative. Each or all may have been experienced by a company of some companies that tried to implement the philosophy, but *none* of the comments accurately reflect the mindset associated with TQM.
    I believe they are very similar. A main difference is that TQM starts with a desire to improve a process while 6s starts with a desire to save money. Since I happen to think laser beam focus on dollars promotes skipped steps and encourages the fidging of numbers, I think TQM is better on the whole. My caveat would be that both systems are great if they are implemented properly.

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    #81418

    Wara
    Member

    Hi Craig,My opinion, every quality methodology in the world will dead in finally. It seems to be the popular models that someone used and success, he will tell you that are the good way. In reality, when one methodology is apart, new one will popular. You cannot judge what is a finally about improvement? Therefore when you implement quality line (even TQM or 6S), you should remind yourself about the final of that improvement.  I think, the integration is the best. Do everything until it seems a usually work. So you should learn 6S method by yourself and adopt into TQM. No one is book. No one is encyclopedia. Waiting to apply all. Then you will achieve your goal. Take everything to periodic action 6S method is using index to consider any processes (want to decrease variation)TQM is conceptual methodology that need applicative proceed. It is including 3 things-          Continuous improvement-          Everyone in organization need to join together (especially CEO)-          Thinking to every contactor as your customer (both internal and external your company) What is the next popular methodology after 6S apart?

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    #81421

    Schuette
    Participant

    The correct answer for you is probably what works best in your company. Most all of us are semi-purists based on our training and experience. The real fanitics among us can and will argue any pure position. Most others of us try to keep the best and discard the worst of all the “greatest since sliced bread” programs. Early TQM philosophies asked for 5-15% improvement per year. Those programs did a lot of good but in many companies they ran out of steam for any number of reasons. Today’s Six Sigma programs can ask for 50-100% improvement within 3-6 months which looks great. Six Sigma became especially attractive to the “Fad Followers” because of the $$ in savings connected to it, but SS is really not about $$. It is about a system and set of tools which has an organization and discipline to make significant improvements. I like SS and hope that we can keep it fresh for a while. I think that it can make its most important contribution in the design area by preventing problems for customers.    

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    #81426

    Arthur
    Participant

    If your an SS person, then SS is better.  If your a Lean Person, then Lean is better.  Lean is not just TPS, or TPM, or TQC, or TQM.   And SS is not just statistics.
    Personally I think SS is a tool that belongs in the Lean tool bag.  (But thats just lean bias).
    Should we focus on lean that eliminates waste. (Zero defects)  or focus on a SS environment that tolorates 3.4 defects / million.  (World class)
    (This message has been brought to you by the people who practice lean) .
     

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    #81460

    Logan Luo
    Participant

    Hi Bill,
    Could you please advise what kind of the tools that you have applied? I don’t think some of the SS tools can be applied in small company (specially the real SS tools); and small company doesn’t have money for all Black Belts and Green belt who actual drive the programs and project. Training is another issue in small company. How to calculate the real ROI?
    I want to lean from you how to apply SS in a small company.
    Logan Luo

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    #81468

    Paul Grizzell
    Participant

    I agee with “Withheld.”  The Pande book and others emphasize what’s different, when in actuality it should be what’s the same.  For instance, Leadership Commitment.  If there is ledership commitment in TQM it’s more apt to work, same with Six Sigma.  There are Six Sigma programs out there without leadership support that are failing.  I’m a Baldrige Senior Examiner and have seen organizations without Six Sigma that are generating strong results, and the greatest predictor of business success (in my oipinion) is the information in a company’s description of their Leadership System in a Baldrige application.
    I’m also an advocate of Six Sigma and am implementing a program based on Baldrige setting the culture that will enable six Sigma success.  If you’re interested, let me know, I’ll share Overview slide of alignment of Baldrige, Six Sigma and Lean.
    Also, a great new book is “Leading Six Sigma” by Snee and Hoerl tht discusses this subject in depth.

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    #81469

    Logan Luo
    Participant

    Can I have one copy of the Overview? [email protected]
    Thanks
     

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    #81474

    RW
    Member

    Could I also get a copy of the overview? Thank you.

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    #81930

    Eoin Barry
    Participant

    What are the gaps between your organisation and a truly effective world class one? What are the organisational contraints and opportunites for improvement? What are youre customers telling you ? Can you hear them, are you listening?
    I would argue that TQM is an excellent foundation for six sigma and that lean and SS are truly complimentary: SS deals with focused analysis on a problem or defect relating to to the process reliabilty. The SS tool box is highly analytical and focused more on the creation of an effecient entity.
     Lean (or the TPS or Kaizen or whatever incarnation you use) is focused on process flow, lead time reduction and eradication of waste in all its forms. The tool box is analytical also but geared towards the creation of an efficient system – ideally the combination of a set of efficent entities.
    They are not exculsive but very much inclusive. Do what works – do it all.
    Best of luck, Eoin
     

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    #82685

    Balazs Racz
    Participant

    I am writing my dissertation about the relationship of Six Sigma and Lean Manufacturing. If someone has any useful material, please forward it to me. ([email protected])
    Thanks, Balazs

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    #84152

    Anonymous
    Participant

    Eoin,Thanks for the voice of reason.  Six Sigma is a tool, albeit a great one – you just have to make sure you can afford it and that it is adequate for the job. Ryan

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    #85236

    Data junkie
    Participant

    Hi all. Hopefully after 3 years, Craig has his answer. The bottom line is: Top Management must buy into whatever idea you propose! Your system must be fact-based. Your system must have customer feedback built in. No system is perfect, but stick to it. You can borrow from Project Management tools as well.
    Training for 6sigma should be more user-friendly. If you want to implement a company-wide system go for it. If you are a bunch of technical/analytical people in the QA dept, maybe TQM is for you. Once again, top management must be committed to what you are doing, or you will be swimming upstream. This includes your budget now and later. Regards from a tired swimmer.

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    #88563

    Titu John
    Member

    Well Its is not worth while comparing both because six sigma is just a methodolgy  for focused improvements,where as TQM is a philosophy in simple terms a bigger domain .

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    #88570

    SAM U
    Member

    Hi LOGAN
    Hope BILL is still around, as 3 years have gone on since he wrote his message in June 2000, and 8 months have also gone on that you asked him about it.
    Wish anyone else might have answers to your worthy questions. I´d also be glad to learn them. Regards.
              SAM U

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    #88575

    Logan Luo
    Participant

    Hi Sam,
     
    Yes, it has been a long time. I did not hear anything from Bill, but I think I have found the way.
     
    I believe no matter what kinds of SS tools are being used, they must serve a basic criterion – driving improvement. For large corporations, they may have more resources to make improvements in large scale, but for small companies, they can still use simple SS tools to drive improvement in small scale. It doesn’t matter what kind of tool is being used, what matter the most is making improvements.
     
    Recently, I read an article argued that Six Sigma is fading away as “…as companies find that the technique often achieves less than expected…” and I believe lots of companies are facing this problem now. To me, the solution is “return to the basic” – two major functions of a quality system: monitoring performance, and driving continuous improvement.  I have wrote an article about this subject, click here to read the details.
     
    Please comment.
     
    Logan Luo

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    #89705

    ROSS
    Member

    A good reply. In fact, there is a lovely Dilbert cartoon that sums up these sentiments beautifully. If anyone is interested I can email a copy … I hope that doesn’t infringe copyright.
     

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    #89796

    Grace
    Participant

    okay, I’ve read all I can take in about SS/TQM/Lean…
    can anyone tell me which is best for a service based business, and why they think it’s best.

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    #89806

    Martínez
    Participant

    Six Sigma is better for the following reasons:- This is the most fashionable and the ‘in’ thing today and will remain for some time to come as this is the most flexible framework for quality.- It gets the TOP LEADERSHIP involved in Quality and demands their personal time and commitment. TQM was run by ‘Quality folks’-SS ties in projects with big business priorities aligned with customers requirements and also with bottom line financial results(and that is why the top bosses love it!)- SS is not a spectator sport! It demands everyone across the organization and across functions to join the ‘game’ and participate and the most effective and dramatic results happen only when it is done in the entire organization. TQM did not demand that.- SS is so flexible it can fit any organization across the entire industry patterns in both manufacturing as well as service organizations. It can also deal with established processes as well as new product/process development.

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    #89815

    DaveG
    Participant

    Grace,
    I assume you are leading a change program.  The question of which “flavor” to use is moot, and I’m amazed that people devote such energy to it.  Many people seem to think these programs are “plug and play”, which is never true.
    All you need do is understand where you are, where you want to be, and select tools to get there.  Now I’ve told you what to ignore.  For some positive advice, please provide details on your operation.

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    #89819

    Grace
    Participant

    Thank you and I don’t see this as negative.  It is your observation.

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    #89946

    Stefan Szemkus
    Participant

    Hi Jim,
    can you tell me, which position in what company you have?
    Else I need to know, what is the basic for the numbers you mentioned (5-15% improvement -TQM, and up to 100% with 6S)?
    Have you a safty source for telling this or are they out of your experiences?
    Thanks
    Stefan

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    #89954

    Michael W McLean
    Participant

    CWQC then TQC then TQM all had Incremental  [Kaizen] and Breakthrough [Juran] improvement projects with a support infrastructure and SPC and Problem Solving and Prevention tools. We have seen little diffrence with the Six Sigma projects completed to date and would say the lack of understanding of Process Stability and then Capablity in Six Sigma, supports Motorola’s Keki Bhote’s view that most SS implementations are “Sick” and bad in mathemetical rigour i.e. no Control Chart Software to date has made a change to its calculations of +/-3Std in Control C’s for that +/-1.5 SS “Shift”. Deming & Juran would admit that at least SS has executive participation and interest and that the early quality drives support SS. Finally, most ISO9001 QMS are not ‘process’ based and thus cannot harvest the benefits of SS Process gains nor conduct Process Audits.As the Six Sigma Failure articles grow [Q Digest] then the benefits of TQC/TQM/SS will be truly realised when, as Hammer states [HBR 02], when Six Sigma is within a Process Management Framework. Until then Six Sigma will fair no better fate than TQM/C.

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    #89956

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    Michael,
    Your response was interesting. I agree completely with the view on ISO. I do not agree with your views on TQC &TQM.
    Tools are tools. They don’t stop working and neither does a methodology. If you get a copy of the book “The Deviant’s Advantage” the put forward a model (page 18) that shows how a product progresses from the edge to social convention. They also list an authenticity quotient. I see this happening to SS and I believe I saw it happen to TQM. The system didn’t fail it just got commercialized. If you watch the posts on the discussion forum there is this cacophony of esoteric nonsense around getting certified. If you are in the middle of a company that does not care about Six Sigma, TQM, etc it is like owning one walkie-talkie. If you look at what was going on at Allied And GE it was not about training and certification – those were ancillary effects. It was about results-period-end of story.
    As it has grown we have seen the curriculum get corrupted (just look at the post where they are agonizing over moving C&E diagrams to Measure – who took it out of measure in the first place?) People are tool zombies – they don’t understand at a gut level that they are solving a problem – they are executing steps mindlessly because that is the way they were taught – by mindless instructors who never had a gut level understanding in the first place. TQM was killed when it became an academic playground for a bunch of people who wanted to pntificate on BS and never be held accountable for results – so they trained by the thousands. SS is headed that way. Every time you turn around there is some new book with some self annointed guru that has invented a new way to do continuous improvement. The great part is even though you get it now for a mear $5000 you can access a website and be right back on the cutting edge. What you don’t see is the guru walking the cyber streets in six inch red stilletto heels.
    Design 2-3-4, Measure 2-3-4, Analyze 2-3-4, Improve 2-3-4, Control 2-3-4
    This stuff is emasculated in the market place. The tools don’t stop working just the people using them.
    Sorry about the rant. Good luck.

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    #89980

    Tony Burns
    Member

    Mike,
    A great post ! Good to see a pragmatist !!
    Dr Tony Burns
    [email protected]

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    #89982

    Tony Burns
    Member

    Mike,
    If the mean of a continuous process starts to drift, points will start to fall outside control limits. The process will no longer be “in-control”. It will become unpredictable and incapable of producing product that is within specification. If a process mean drifts to +/- 1.5 sigma, the process is well “out of control”. That is why control chart software does not allow for, or ignore, drifting means.
    Dr Tony Burns
    [email protected]

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    #89990

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    Dr. Burns,
    Thank you. I like the term.
    Regards,
    Mike

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    #90044

    Bahram
    Participant

    Paul,
    I am very much interested in your slide. I understand GE received Baldrige award after implementation of Six Sigma.
    Please send me your information.
    Thanks

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    #90050

    Baba
    Participant

     Hi Mike,
    Couldn’t say it better myself.
    I have witnessed the “mindless execution of steps” in a medical device manufacturing in Juarez. The BB quality engineer was reacting to a manufacturing circumstances creating high rejects. He collected numerous data, feed them to minitab, presented the colorful graph and concluded that design deficiency is the main cause of the rejects. In fact this product have been in production for last four years.Let’s agree that not every one who is trained, leaned to use the software and is certified is a six sigma practitioner and that is nothing to do with six sigma philosophy and approach to quality improvements.    

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    #90054

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    Baba,
    The mindlesness of the steps is a bigger and bigger problem. We have the tool zombies that become this cadre of inert protoplasm sucking resources out of the company and not providing any payback. That is what will kill the deal.
    Good luck.
    Regards,
    Mike

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    #90056

    Mike Husovich
    Participant

    Paul,
    I realize it is almost a year since you posted the message, however I am very interested in the overview slide you mention showing the alignment of Six Sigma Lean and Baldrige. Could you please forward to me. Thanks
     By the way I agree with your assement of “Leading Six Sigma” very good book on the Business Processes required for Six Sigma.
    Sincerely, Mike Husovich

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    #90057

    Mike Allen
    Participant

    Paul, I am also intersted in the slide(s) you mention, as well as any other references.
    Thank for sharing!

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    #90058

    AnnaOC
    Participant

    Mike-
    “Tool Zombies”.  What a perfect description of the phenomenon!
    Like you, I prefer to pick the tool that has the most relevance to the problem I’m solving, and not to go through steps/use specifc tools merely for the sake of the “Capital M” methodolgy.  
    In the pre-9/11 world, I used to tell a joke that went: “What’s the difference between a terrorist and a methodologist?  Answer:  You can negotiate with a terrorist!”  It’s no longer funny.  I can no longer tell the team I’m training to think of me as a “problem solving” terrorist, for whom specific tools at specific project phases were negotiable, based on relevance.   But I’m STILL not a methodologist. 
    This independence (bloody-mindedness?) made me suspect among the Value Engineering SAVE-iors, among the DFA disciples of BDI, and among the belted true-believers riding the Six Sigma gravy train at Ford.  But I still maintain that being able to appropriately apply as many tools as possible is the best way to approach problem solving.   I don’t much care what methodology birthed a tool or the pedigree since except when adding footnotes to academic papers  / giving credit where due. 
    Anna O’Connell (the once and possibly future Annonymous)
     

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    #90063

    Reigle Stewart
    Participant

    Anna O’Connell:I absolutely loved you sense of humor. You
    have a very good style for getting your point
    across to others. I hope you don’t go
    annonymous again … you obviously have a lot to
    contribute.Thanks for stepping forward and making your
    opinions known.Reigle Stewart

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    #90077

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    Anna,
    It has been a while. Glad to see you are still here. It is difficult to tell if you were gone or I was gone or both.
    I like the joke even if it isn’t PC. Just remember PC is just reverse McCarthyism. Laughter is an involuntary response.
    I like your last paragraph. I have never felt constrained by someone elses limits (when they want you to live inside their box). Giving credit is appropriate – when it is due.
    Hope you stay out of the closet. Either way your input is always valued.
    Regards,
    Mike

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    #90091

    Sanjay mehta
    Member

    I fully agree any given day SS is better in terms of investment recovered as well as the involvement and commitment from the top management with out which any quality initative is bound to fail / not achieve its intented goal and cause discomfort to all and everyone.

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    #90104

    Bob Peterson
    Participant

    Mike,
    Thank you for your frank comments on the seeming future state of SS.  I thought I might be the only one who felt that way and was uncharacteristically hesitant to speak out.  I no longer stress six sigma with my clients – just ‘structured problem solving’.  A bit of a shame I suppose, but then it is about results, isn’t it?  Results-2-3-4 by any other name . . .
    Bob Peterson

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    #90211

    Craig Davidson
    Participant

    Mike,
    Could not agree more, but I see it as a degeneration.  As the methodology goes away from its origin, it has been “customer-ized” by those people in the red shoes.  Can you blame marketers that see the opportunity to cash-in on the trend.  They only really need to sound good, not function at a high level. (besides who knows the difference.)
    Six Sigma is being reduced to little more than waste reducing lean projects because that is what business leaders are looking for… a silver bullet that will yeild results with in a week.  There is little to no strategy in most businesses.  It seems most management is stuck on cutting expense today, which explains the success of knock-offs and lean processing.  Will it yield the success that Welch saw, very doubtful.  It does however deliver what the CTQ of the customer, quick easy short-term improvement.  The power of the methodology, (used by responsible managers) has been reduced to little more than the most basic process improvement. 

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    #90253

    Y M Joshi
    Member

    Dear All
    In my opinion, Six Sigma or TQM , which is better – is a Non -Question ! The reason is Six Sigma is aTool for TQM which is a Philosophy or Programme for Total Quality. TQM is Quality Management . Dr J F Juran says that like any other management ( Finance,Production,Marketing etc) Quality also has to be managed. Like other Management approaches, QM has also 3 elements viz Quality Planning(QP),Quality Control(QC) and Quality Improvement(QI). each of these elements need the help of various tools like Six Sigma, DOE,QFD,FMEA, as well as Quality Systems like QS 9000 ,ISO 9000 and so on. As such Six Sigma is not mutually exclusive with TQM but it is subset of TQM. TQM needs Systems,Tools, Tequeniques as well as sound HR and Business management practices, noble core values including corporate citizenship aspect.
    If we look at Six Sigma as a Programme or Philosophy, again its same as TQM since its also having strong Customer Focus and addresses all the business processes.
    I hope this should answer the NONQUESTION !
    Regards
    Y M JOSHI
     
     

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    #90445

    John Hargreaves
    Participant

    Anna
    Like Reigle and Mike, I like your comparison even though, as you say, it’s a little ‘off’ now.  Nevertheless, as a believer in the power of metaphor, stories and good inoffensive humor to communicate, might I suggest that I you trade the word “terrorist” for “guerrilla” (as in guerrilla warfare) which is a little less emotive in these times.
    John

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    #90458

    Mikel
    Member

    Which is worse – A tool zoombie or a Dr. Mikel zoombie?

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    #90465

    Anna O’Connell
    Participant

    Thanks to Reigle, Mike and John for the kind words. 
    I think I’ve just adopted John’s suggestion substituting “guerilla” for “terrorist”.  It neatly captures one of the most important points of my  philosophy;  making use of ALL available resources (analysis, statistics, physics/chemistry, problem solving and change leadership tools!) to achieve the objective(s).   Even better if by using these resources, I deny them to the “enemy”.
    Relating to SS vs. TQM, I tend to agree that TQM addresses philosophy first, then specifies methods; while SS begins by requiring top management committment to the methodology without explicitly addressing philosophy.   I can clearly see that one might be a better fit than another for a given organization, and so to the “Which is better?” question, I would give the infamous, all-purpose engineering answer of “That depends.” 
    What it depends on is the answers to at least: “What is it specifically that you want to do? When? For whom? In what physical and organizational environments? At what cost? and Where are you starting from? “
    I will also observe that only the independent consultants and top managers among us realistically have the luxury of choice in this matter. Unless you’re willing to quit your current jobs and only look for new ones only in organizations that support your preferrence.  
    Anna O’Connell                                                                                “Guerilla Product and Process Improvement”

    0
    #90775

    Titu John
    Member

    TQM is a holistic approach which goes beyond a organisation ,its a philosophy where as Six sigma  is a focussed approach to solve a problem  on a project basis . Hence in my opinion we cannot compare these two approaches.
    Titu John
    Quality Management Consultant

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    #90823

    SSS
    Member

    Tony, pls send me the cartoon. Many thanks.

    0
    #90854

    KS
    Participant

    Hi TonyI love to have a copy of the cartoon you mentioned. Kindly send to [email protected].K. SanguansaiP.S. We, at Walailak University, THAILAND, are adventuring very seriously the initiation of Six Sigma.

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    #92527

    Charlotte Marie
    Participant

    Greetings,
    I am extremely interested in the information that you offer on Baldrige and Six Sigma.  I am currently reading Leading with Six Sigma, and The Six Sigma Way.
    God’s Peace,
    Charlotte Marie
     

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    #92528

    Mikel
    Member

    My advice is to forget all of the titles and books about fads and read something solid like Good to Great.

    0
    #92564

    Rogers
    Participant

    Tony,
    Can you please send me the dilbert cartoon?
    Thank you, Debbie

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    #92572

    David Fletcher
    Participant

    Debbie
    Please send your email address and I’ll send you the Dibert cartoon.  Regards,
    David Fletcher.
    [email protected]

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    #92590

    DaveG
    Participant

    David,
    Please send me the cartoon, too.  Thanks!
    [email protected]

    0
    #92786

    Dan M.
    Participant

    Hi Tony,
    I would like a copy of the cartoon as well [email protected]. I have been in high-tech for 30 years, seen many initiatives come and go….. the quest for the silver bullets! Although most initiatives do bring value, there is always a new pitch waiting in the wings. I have been immersed in Design For Six Sigma (DFSS) for a few years and with the emphasis on Time To Market (TTM), Time To Quality (TTQ) and TTx etc. I have seen many positive results. Whenever the emphasis is on design margin, quality, reliability, data driven process & decisions – good things will follow.

    0
    #93301

    Vikas
    Member

    hi sir,
     
    am looking for advantages of six sigma over efqm/tqm.
    can u guide me.
    vikas

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    #93303

    Mathan RAj
    Participant

    Hi
    There are many hospitals in India which are ISO 9001: 2000 certified. Please mention the hospitals in India which implement six sigma as a part of their quality management system.
    Do Indian hospitals implement six sigma.
    Sincerely,
    MathanRaj

    0
    #95509

    Chauhan
    Member

    Yes, I would like to get the copy of the cartoon.  Could you please mail it to me at:
    [email protected]
     
    Thank you.
     
    Best Regards,
     
    Sandty

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    #95515

    mman
    Participant

    Thank You.As I’m lecturing in TQM,SS,SHANGE MANAGEMENT…..etc. I would like as well to receive a copy of that interesed Cartoon ,please pass a copy to me as well to my email:
    [email protected]
    I will pass to you an  interested article in CM,Kind Regards.  MMAN

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    #95770

    Isabel
    Participant

    Please email me the dilbert cartoon.  I have to do a presentation on six sigma and would like to include it.
     
    Thanks,
     
    Isabel

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    #95882

    A.S.
    Participant

    Six sigma follows the project management approach which is always better to get results.
    Six sigma produces results interms of values ie quantified benefits.
    uses advanced statistical tools to create the robust process design.
     

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    #95903

    AB
    Participant

    TQM is just too broad a concept and as big organizations have discovered, untill you have a very specific goal in sight its not worth it,
    With Six Sigma one can identify and track the progress towards the goals/ targets, and this helps keep the company on track.
    -AB
     

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    #97623

    Damodaran
    Member

    Please send me the interesting Dilbert Cartoons.
    My mail id is [email protected]
     
    Regards
    Sanjay

    0
    #97629

    Bob J
    Participant

    Hi Tony!
    Please add me to the list for the cartoon….  My email is [email protected]
    Thanks!
    Bob J

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    #97746

    mman
    Participant

    Thank You in-advance ,Tony .I wish to receive the carton as well,my email:[email protected]    regards,MMAN

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    #97958

    xlntelle
    Member

    I know this trail is old but if whomever has the dilbert cartoon, can you please email it to me at [email protected]
    Thanks!

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    #103890

    Isabel
    Participant

    Please email me the dilbert cartoon.  I have to do a presentation on six sigma and would like to include it.
     
    Thanks,
    IsabelII

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    #103892

    sree
    Member

    Well Six sigma is methodlogy , which  bring culture and environment to the industry .If you are thinking to have Six sigma definetly , it is right time and requires less lead time to implement that takes TQM as a catalyst.
    We are the company called SKIL , who works achieving towards Six Sigma .We are conducting a free seminar and training for the organisation.
    If you are interested we can send a invitation for the seminar , that could  benifit for your organisation.
    -from
    Sree

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    #103920

    Not really Buzz A.
    Participant

    FYI, with some humor intended, :-)
    You have to furnish an e-mail address actually in the body of  your post, which you probably don’t want to do.
    Re-post, take the rest of the day off, pray that someone who has the cartoon see’s the post and sends a usable copy to you before your presentation.
    Good luck.

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    #103954

    Noname expert
    Participant

    I need it also,thanks.

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    #103959

    John Chi Keong Wong
    Participant

    Hi all,
    Regarding the question “Six Sigma/TQM – Which is better?”, my opinion is to look at all the available tools, methodologies, frameworks and philosophies and choose which are effective for the organisation to use to achieve its vision and mission.
    For example, the Balanced Score Card and Malcolm Baldrige National Quality Award frameworks state that we should have a balanced perspective of a company’s development. Use it if you think that it is good.
    For example, the DMAIC methodology in Six Sigma is a systematic way to solve problems in the department, institute it.
    What about Deming’s 14-point philosophy? If you think point 6 “institute training on the job” makes sense, implement it as a company’s culture.
    I have personally used a lot of the ANOVA and DOE tools to find the root cause of issues and optimise processes way back in 1996.
    Six Sigma and TQM can be anything to anybody. No one is right or wrong. Ultimately, the winner will be the one who is able to use them to create the greatest company in the world to work for (employees), to work with (suppliers, distributors, partners) and to buy from (customers). It does not mean that such a company will have the highest revenue, lowest cost, largest market capitalisation or best shareholder value.
    Feel free to comment. :)
    John Wong

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    #103964

    John,
    I believe the important question is whether of not an approach based on the ‘natural process capability’ of a process is sufficient and necessary to achieve a low cost ‘best-in-class’ performance. (Remember quality is variation in performance …)
    By way of contrast, the complementary approach of Jidoka (machines with human intelligence) does not seem to suffer these limitations and can achieve high performance magnitude, low variation, and low cost. ( By way of example, many assembly processes are challenged by component matching (correlation) and it is quite possible to jig each component into several groups, thereby ensuring close interference without the generation of scrap.
    According to the ‘natural variation’ philosophy, and even Lean Enterprise  this is muda or waste. But is it? Jidoka is a hallmark of TPS – Ikko Nagashi (single-flow.)
    In conclusion, in certain circumstances neither six sigma or TQM will provide the means to achieve a company’s objectives. If this is true; then we still need to discover the ‘general theory of quality.
    Cheers,
    Andy

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    #103981

    mman
    Participant

    Agree fully with you.Once I have suggested a new concept:BQA (Best Quality Approach),just to mix the best suitable elements  from the different  quality concepts (TQM,Kaizen,Six-Sigma,TPS,Lean…ETC) and to apply as per the required condition and status,it looks  “naive” but I see the future of quality in such approach.  kind regards

    0
    #103983

    Mman,
    Someone should resolve this because many manufacturing lines are now moving towards Lean. If the line uses step-by-step confirmation (TPS) then many with a six sigma background would see the confirmation part of the operation as a process (non value-added work)
    Hence in order to avoid these difficulties, we need a better understanding of quality. My feeling is that we now have two extremes that seem complementary:
    jidoka (TPS)  vs ‘natural process capability’
    Another complement is alluded to in ‘Product Development for Lean Enterprises, by Kennedy, and descibed as existing at two extremes (the implication is opposite but I believe they are complementary.)
    ‘structured PDSP’ vs ‘Knowledge-base’ (TPS)
    If these are indeed complementary then Pande’s book is very aptly named ….
    Cheers,
    Andy

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    #103988

    Noname expert
    Participant

    Thank You for this kind of  Excellent “comprehensive wrapping-up”.kind regards.  Mman 

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    #104782

    randy chott
    Participant

     Leadership is the number the number one thing.
    Assess the business situation and apply the best leadership style for the needs of the business. The people can only do so much if management is in the way.
    Clear concise goals.  Aligning the company culture and its goals across the company.  If the people are not working together for to achieve those goals the company has set then the company becomes less effective and its productivity drops.  You can call it cross functional teams or you can call it team work.  It isnt rocket science.
    Process improvement  seicmm ss tqm and any other gimmick with a salesman pitch is nothing more than trying to improve productivity.
    Productivity comes from leadership and talent. There is a michael jordan for everything everywhere. That is just a fact of nature. Not all men are created equal. Each individual is unique with different strenghts and weaknesses.  Good management understands they are looking for a talented person to fulfill a job function.

    0
    #105959

    Kaustubh Pendse
    Participant

    Hi Tony,
    Please send me the Six Sigma Dilbert Cartoon on [email protected].
    Thanks.
    Kaustubh

    0
    #105960

    Charmed SIX
    Participant

    Please Tony :Send me a copy as well.thanks and regards:
    [email protected]

    0
    #105972

    Munish DEwan
    Participant

    I believe 6 Sigma forms a Part of Overall Big Umberla-TQM along with Other Methodologies like TPM, Gemba Kaizen etc.
    1) 6 Sigma suppliments the Overall TQM Implementation, due to its   Clear, Focused, Sequential DMAIC approach
    2) It Lacks Down the Line ( workmen ) involvement and majorly focused at Staff / Supervisor Levels, hence can be very Successfull Individually in Process/Technology Driven Industries
    But, in more Employee involed sectors I think it needs to be supplimented by Other Tools of TQM like Gemba Kaizen, Quality Circles etc.
    Pls. be Clear again TQM is Umberella & Six Sigma is one of the Paths to TQM.
    I hope I could bring some clarity.
    Regards,
    Munish Dewan
     
     
     
     
     
     

    0
    #108199

    Ossama Eidarous
    Participant

    Please send me the Six Sigma Dilbert Cartoon to my E-Mail :
    [email protected].
    Thanks in advance for your cooperation.
    Eidarous

    0
    #108833

    Tanuja
    Member

    Tony
    Can you kindly send me a copy of the Dilbert cartoon on Six Sigma/TQM to ([email protected])
    Apprecitate your help
    Kind Regards
    Tan

    0
    #109002

    Sinnicks
    Participant

    Hi Tony,
    Would you mind sending me that dilbert cartoon?  My addy is [email protected]
    Cheers,Mark

    0
    #109015

    VGB
    Member

    Every body is asking for the “Dilbert Cartoon”.Is it possible to put it here in this  Forum??,thanks

    0
    #109210

    Jay Rao
    Participant

    Hi,
    I am making a presentation about management fads. If you don’t mind, could you please email me the Dilbert cartoon on six sigma? Thanks.
    Jay
    [email protected]

    0
    #109226

    VGB
    Member

    We all appreciate having a copy of this dilbert cartoon.May be it should be sent (as a link) to this  forum .Thanks.

    0
    #109850

    TK Chin
    Member

    Hi Tony,
    I am an university student currently doing research on Six Sigma. Can you pls. email a copy to me? My add. is [email protected]
    Sorry for troubling and thanks a lot.
    Regards,
    TK

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    #110151

    Kenny
    Participant

    Hey Guys,I need a topic for my graduate project or thesis in Quality Assurance and am thinking of performing a project on something related to Lean Six Sigma. Do you guys have any suggestions for me in terms of topics? Please provide me with some project or thesis ideas.
    Thanks,
    Kenny

    0
    #110487

    TF
    Member

    Please send me the Six Sigma Dilbert Cartoon to my E-Mail :
    [email protected]

    0
    #110998

    Titu John
    Member

    In some aspects of quality improvement, TQM and Six Sigma share the same philosophy of how to assist organizations to accomplish Total Quality. They both emphasize the importance of top-management support and leadership. Both approaches make it clear that continuous quality improvement is critical to long-term business success. However, why has the popularity of TQM waned while Six Sigma’s popularity continues to grow in the past decade?
     Unlike TQM, Six Sigma was not developed by technicians who only dabbled in management and therefore produced only broad guidelines for management to follow. The Six Sigma way of implementation was created by some of America’s most gifted CEOs – people like Motorola’s Bob Galvin, Allied Signal’s Larry Bossidy, and GE’s Jack Welch. These people had a single goal in mind: making their businesses as successful as possible. Once they were convinced that tools and techniques of Six Sigma could help them do this, they developed a framework to make it happen.
    The differences between TQM and Six Sigma are summarized in the table mentioned below
    TQM vs. Six Sigma

    TQM

    Six Sigma

    A functional specialty within the organization.

    An infrastructure of dedicated change agents.  Focuses on cross-functional value delivery streams rather than functional division of labour.

    Focuses on quality.

    Focuses on strategic goals and applies them to cost, schedule and other key business metrics.

    Motivated by quality idealism.

    Driven by tangible benefit far a major stockholder group (customers, shareholders, and employees).

    Loosely monitors progress toward goals.

    Ensures that the investment produces the expected return.

    People are engaged in routine duties (Planning, improvement, and control).

    “Slack” resources are created to change key business processes and the organization itself.

    Emphasizes problem solving.

    Emphasizes breakthrough rates ofimprovement.

    Focuses on standard performance, e.g. ISO 9000.

    Focuses on world class performance, e.g., 3.4 PPM error rate.

    Quality is a permanent, full-time job. Career path is in the quality profession.

    Six Sigma job is temporary. Six Sigma is a stepping-stone; career path leads elsewhere.

    Provides a vast set of tools and techniques with no clear framework for using them effectively.

    Provides a selected subset of tools and techniques and a clearly defined framework for using them to achieve results (DMAIC).

    Goals are developed by quality department based on quality criteria and the assumption that what is good for quality is good for the organization.

    Goals flow down from customers and senior leadership’s strategic objectives. Goals and metrics are reviewed at the enterprise level to assure that local sub-optimization does not occur.

    Developed by technical personnel.

    Developed by CEOs.

    Focuses on long-term results. Expected payoff is not well-defined.

    Six Sigma looks for a mix of short-term and long-term results, as dictated by business demands.
     

    0
    #111000

    Titu John
    Member

    Hi,
    It would be a difficult to estimate the exact number of ISO 9001:2000 certified hospitals in India , but it I know amy hospitals where Six sigma initatives have been take ….it may not be on a very  formal basis but the goals and objectives remains same ? For Ex. Hinduja Hospital in Mumbai , Appolo hospital , to name a few

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    #111008

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    Titu John,
    Very nice post.
    Regards

    0
    #112811

    K.Sathish
    Participant

    Hi,
               I feel that TQM and SIX-SIGMA are both best. Since SIX-SIGMA is an extended version of TQM, all qualities are met in TQM also.
    Rgds,
    Sathish

    0
    #115913

    Gem
    Participant

    Hiya,
    Am currently doing my dissertation on this  very topic, and would much appreciate it I was able to get hold of this dilbert cartoon as well. If anyone has it, my email address is [email protected].
    Cheers

    0
    #115915

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    Gem,
    Your dissertation needs to have something on Copyright law. If you are going to use it you need to contact the person that hold the copyright.
    When you get it you need to pass it on to the Tata Consultancy Services Ltd. in India that are using my stuff in their sales pitch and not giving me or iSixSigma any acknowledgement for where they got their stuff.
    Good luck

    0
    #115917

    Gem
    Participant

    sorry mike,
    Did not mean to cause offence and did not realise.
    Thanks for putting me in my place.

    0
    #115935

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    Gem,
    It isn’t necessarily offence. That cartoon is someone elses property. You might find several from Motorola particularly sensitive to this since a lot of our stuff was published by people who had little or nothing to do with it.
    Good luck with the dissertation.

    0
    #115936

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    Gem,
    I also did not intend that post to put you in the same catagory as the guy from Tata Consultancy Services Ltd. There is a huge gap between someone who is pursuing academic achievement and someone who is using someone elses property to make money.
    Good luck

    0
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