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  • #41322

    I’Anson
    Participant

    I am currently in the process of choosing a course and certification provider and have been going throough the various online options. Among these, ASQ, Quality America, and Sixsigmaonline. These vary wildly in price, and I have questions as to comparative content quality. I am comfortable with both ASQ and Quality America, but I can find very little info on Sixsigmaonline other than their own web site. Would anyone be able to provide any feedback on content quality, delivery methods, testing, and overall impressions? Has anyone been through their course offerings?Thanks, Daniel

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    #129532

    Bethany
    Participant

    I too am considering getting my black belt certification but I’m unsure which would be the best way to go about it that would educate me the most as well as be recognized and appreciated the most by potential employers.
    Villanova has a program that upon successful completion, you receive a Master’s Certificate in Six Sigma (you can also choose just to get certified in black belt or green belt). I then thought I could cap that off with passing the ASQ exam.
    My second choice is to go through Motorola University – who better to learn from than the company that started it all? I’m just wondering if anyone out there has a perspective one way or the other.
    There is a pretty signifigant cost difference associated between the two.
     

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    #129533

    I’Anson
    Participant

    There are significant cost differences. The company I was referring to, http://www.sixsigmaonline.org seems to be the least expensive, and claims to rival competitors in content quality. However, the only info I can find on them or their service is from their own website. I was hoping someone could provide me feedback if they have ever had some exposure to their course offerings.
    I too would eventually seek the ASQ certification, and am looking at the Lean Black Belt program offered by them. This is essentially Moresteam’s program at a slightly increased cost when you factor in the membership fee.
    It’s a difficult choice as every company seems to have something to offer. Any suggestions from the rest of the forum on what they would recommend?
    Daniel

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    #129534

    Taylor M.
    Member

    I wouldn’t trust my certification to anyone not established in the marketplace. Cost should not be the issue because if you get it from a credible society or company it will pay for itself many times over.
    ASQ is well known, but it’s also well known that it’s not the most credible. For instance, there are no project reviews just a signature from someone at your org. That’s not a very good way to run a certification. But it may get your foot in the door.
    Quality America is somewhat known, to people in the industry. I personally would get ASQ cert first since it has more name recognition to recruiters (who tend to know very little about Six Sigma in general).
    A major consulting company is an excellent option. Ones with well known names like Six Sigma Academy, Juran, Motorola (open enrollment) or BMG are all fine choices and anyone who looks at your certification will know that you not only passed a test, but had to be “put through the paces” to show a project or two and some REAL financial results for the org.
    A company certification (GE, Honeywell, Motorola [as an employee], etc.) is the best route to go. Unfortunatley, you have to get a job there first. But this will provide the best way to get into another job (“I’m BB certified from GE with 3 projects completed at an average of $350,000 per project, all focused on the IT and services areas…”).
    Villanova might have a good program. I’m not sure but if they don’t require a REAL project I think they’re just in it for the money. Employers tend to discover credentials that are not worthy of consideration pretty quickly, so it’s worth it to not take the easy way out of certification.
    Good luck, Daniel.

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    #129535

    Taylor M.
    Member

    Oh, and by the way…I forgot to answer your initial question about sixsigmaonline.org.
    You have to consider the company itself:
    1. How are they portraying themselves? In this case, they’re using a “.org” domain, which is usually used for a not for profit organization, for their profit purposes. If you look at sixsigmaonline.com it goes somewhere else so they’re obviously in it for profit and couldn’t but the sixsigmacompanies.com domain.
    2. Are they a real business? Do they list any of their stakeholders by name? In this case, they list a PO box in Cleveland. No contact details. No phone number. All correspondance go to an email address only. Is that the way you expect to be treated as a customer?
    3. Aren’t testimonials for a site usually a supportive statement for that company? In this case, they’re citing Jim Owens, CEO of Caterpillar but not as using their services…just as supportive of Six Sigma. Ok, slightly misleading in my opinion.
    4. “Ranked #1 Best online certification two years in a row” by some unreadable journal. If they were really #1, then the promotion would be a lot bigger and it would be readable with a link to the source. This just seems shady to me.
    Go with an established player that has a proven record. Ask the company if they’ll give you a list of references that you can call. Make sure the people you’re calling are succeeding in their professional careers. Don’t believe everything you read. Question things.
    Good luck.

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    #129538

    Bethany
    Participant

    Hi,
     
    Thank you for your insight. Just a couple of quick commentsquestions back though.
    What has held me back in the past from getting Six Sigma certified is that the last company I worked at that had training with Six Sigma projects, I JUST missed the cut-off. The company decided at that time that they had enough black belts and so I couldn’t go through the training… Since then, I have looked for other ways to get my certification and learn more but until recently, all training companies required that you have two different projects that you managed. Since I left that last company and now work for a non SS company I have no chance to manage a SS project.
    Now however, I have discovered that the Motorola on line program and Villanova both offer the use of case study projects instead of real live projects. This would be the only way I could learn. Obviously with that constraint compared to what you said about having real projects, what would you do in similar situation?
     
    thanks,
    bethany

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    #129542

    Taylor M.
    Member

    Hi Bethany,
    Here’s my opinion, and it’s just mine. Six Sigma is difficult enough to do when you have a company DOING Six Sigma, let alone a company not doing Six Sigma. In other words, set yourself up for success not failure. Get trained when you have the ability to do Six Sigma with *support* from your organization. Otherwise you’ll be fighting an uphill battle the whole time and most people don’t do well in that type of situation.
    Sample projects are great for classroom instruction, but the difference between Six Sigma and classroom is that things *actually* get done. If you’re not doing training for a company and delivering results, you won’t get as much out of the training.
    Look, nothing is going to stop you from going through training if that’s really what you want to do. If so, I commend you on your dedication to learn more about a topic that has had such a large influence on the business community of the past twenty years. I think that you’ll get *much* more from the training if you actually do a project for a supportive company. Not at a supportive company? Change jobs (I know it’s easier said than done.) Or be a change agent for your company but realize that you’ll be swimming upstream…not that it can’t be done, but people don’t like change — most people don’t embrace change.
    Parting words…if I was interviewing for a Black Belt position at my company and two candidate resumes were before me: one with training and a real project of $XX,000 in hard delivered results while the second was with a classroom/sample project, I wouldn’t even waste time on the second candidate doing a phone interview until they came back with a real project to back up their claim of being worthy of consideration for the position. There are plenty of BBs in the world with real results, and I’m interested in speaking to them.
    Good luck.

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    #129546

    Chalapathi
    Participant

    My experience as a trainer is that project facilitation is very important in the Black Belt learning process.  Most of the e-learning programs are not focussing much on this. 

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    #129560

    Bethany
    Participant

    Thanks for the honesty. I really appreciate it. I guess I’m just frustrated because when I look to switch jobs, all the company’s that I want to work for only want peope that have black belt certification or have managed projects over the 1.5 million mark.
    I have my PMP, I’m working (1/4 way through) on a master’s in project management and I’m willing to learn and continue to educate myself. However, I just don’t seem to be able to break out of the smaller company’s and get the experience of managing $1.5+ (the largest budget I’ve worked with is US$1.2) projects. So, I was looking at additional certification thinking that would help. Guess not.
    I suppose than, my only other option is to take a step back in order to get in with a larger company and work my way up in that company.?
    Anyways, thanks for the advice.
     

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    #129566

    director
    Participant

    Bethany-
    Don’t get frustrated, there are some large companies that are looking to hire individuals with relevant project management/ business experience directly into a BB role and provide the training and  investment required….without taking a step back. Keep an eye out on the iSix Sigma JobShop. We should be posting soon.

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    #129571

    TJ Scally
    Member

    Daniel / Bethany,
    I am working in a Six Sigma Black Belt Role at Dell for the past couple of years. I would reiterate some of the comments re support in your Organisation. To be a good black belt, you need other more experienced black belts around you to learn from.
    I recently completed the ASQ BB Exam and found it relatively easy, mainly due to the amount of Six Sigma discussion in the team every day. If you are serious about long-term Six Sigma careers, my advise is to get into a company with an established Six Sigma program and work your way to “company certified BB” and then get your ASQ to back it up. I wouldn’t recommend only the “classroom” learning model.
    _______________________________TJ Scally, Dell Inc.Six Sigma Black Belt Senior ConsultantASQ Six Sigma Black Belt Certified+353 87 41 07877 (mobile) _______________________________

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    #129573

    BTDT
    Participant

    Taylor M:These are good points about Aveta/sixsigmaonline.org. They have copied a lot of material from other sites and purported it as their own.https://www.isixsigma.com/forum/showmessage.asp?messageID=81895It would be nice to see them respond.Cheers, BTDT

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    #129589

    Adam L Bowden
    Participant

    Hi BTDT,
    WOW – for a grand people can get BB certified – all they need to do is take the course over 12 months, take a test and “write a business plan to demonstrate comprehension of the Six Sigma method.  
    I guess you get what you pay for ?!?
    I’ll only ever employ BBs that have a certification that they had to work for from a “pedigree” organization.
    It never fails to amaze me how many folks will sign up for cheap programs ! 
    I could not get access to their material on-line to check it out – let’s hope that if they have used others material that they are not sued over IP infringements.  I know of one Consultant that was sued over the use of a tree graphic for a six figure amount.
    Best regards,
    Adam
     

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    #129618

    BTDT
    Participant

    Adam:

    Adam: For free you can get a picture of tree with lines on it.
    Just make sure you say it came from Jim Bossert at Bank of America. http://www.charlottespin.org/docs/6Sigma.ppt If you use the following logic, make sure you get written
    conformation from at least a dozen of our lawyers who, quite frankly, have no
    intention of returned your calls. We don’t care what we don’t watchWe don’t watch what we don’t likeWe won’t like it until we find itWe won’t find it until we searchWe won’t search until we finish watching “Lost”We won’t find something until they go into repeatsHence, we’ll just watch what’s on. Cheers, BTDT

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    #129633

    Adam L Bowden
    Participant

    Hi BTDT,
    In the presentation – nice use of both Allied Signal and Six Sigma Academy material – and yes that IS the tree that people get sued over !!!!!!!   I hope Jim isn’t in line to also get sued over use of the tree !!
    Best regards,
    Adam

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    #129810

    Cook
    Participant

    I think the villanova program has potential.  if you don’t have the opportunity at your company to do a project- they offer a simulated project – but you can also choose to do your own.
    i also learned that the project at villanova is accepted by ASQ so if you want to get certified (take the exam) ASQ will accept this as a project.
    Those are 2 bonuses to the price.  You won’t be able to go out and land a job as a BB with a large organization….but it can help you with the understanding, get you certified, and then hopefully you will get to apply all of this at your current company and end up with a real life project that you can talk about later.
     

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    #129906

    kw
    Participant

    Hi: I am currently in the Villanova program,  I am loving it!  Very good “classes” – online via DVD lectures. I am doing the master certificate program: green belt, bb, lean.  I agree though, you can’t replace the real time project work.  My company also has a certification program that i’ll do in 06 – that will give me the real project leading experience.  In the meantime, I have been on 4 sigma projects already and have learned so much from that and this class.  It is expensive for the entire program, but I get 100% reimbursement so I am very lucky.  Also, this isn’t the main focus of my employment, it is a value-add.  Good luck

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    #129911

    Bethany
    Participant

    Not sure where the one grand class is but the Villanova class is around 7k and the Motorola University program is over 12k.. That isn’t super expensive (my master’s program is running 40k) but it isn’t exactly a drop in the bucket either…
    All posts are interesting reading but it still doesn’t help someone like me get into a black belt supported company – as one poster already stated, there are enough black belts out there with actual six sigma project experience to choose from.
    bethany
     

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    #129917

    Adam L Bowden
    Participant

    Hi Bethany,
    Here are some thoughts …
    Black Belts come in all shapes and guises.  Some are good change agents, some are really technical, some possess really high levels of soft skills.   So … you are not a BB but a “wana be BB”.  If I am a Company and looking for a certified BB then as you say there are plenty out there.  So as an individual without any BB training what makes you “more attractive” than a certified BB – ask yourself that question.  Look at it from the perspective of a product – you are the product – what specific attributes, or bundle of attributes makes you more attractive than a typical BB ?  If you can, from a Marketing perspective detail and push your attributes/unique selling points then a company may well hire you and pay for your training.  A similar example is in the UK – the top Law firms do not hire graduates from the Law  Colleges / Universities but instead hire the “creme de la creme” from the Engineering Colleges.  The Engineers are already pre-packaged with the attributes they need and then they send them through Law school.
    Does this make sense ?
    Regards,
    Adam

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    #161878

    Kumpar
    Participant

    I too am going for my masters in project management and am looking for a program for the six sigma blackbelt…cost is definetley an issue but “aveta” looks too cheap…glad I caught this website before I considered it more than I did….I did find a college at Ohio State (Fisher Business College) that looks interesting and not too expensive (comparatively) I think the difference between a good BB and not so good is the requirement for having a final project to assess or not…..just some thoughts

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    #161884

    Brandon
    Participant

    Relative to career opportunities having a Black Belt , or any other color for that matter, is no different than having all the other skills you possess. It shows, in addition to other eduction, you have a certain level of capablity in applying data-based decision making to whatever you do. So, however you get the knowledge is not relevant to the fact that you have it and can apply it.
    Relative to certification, there is no universally recognized body that issues “valid” certification. To date certifications ahve been given by training companies, corporations, individuals ad nauseum. There are no standards in our industry – only opinions. ASQ certification probably comes the closest to being a recognized certification.
    So, that said, find the cheapest approach you can. Your real knowledge of SS will come from experience – just as it does with any other form of education. Learning how to apply SS will be enhanced if you have the opportunity to work in a SS environment with teams of SS people and with MBB’s.
    Got to eBooks on this site or to the author company website and buy DMAIC for $100. It’s the full 4 week BB course with instructor notes and templates – best deal around. Buy their BB Assessment test to see how you did then take the test at ASQ for certification. For under $500 you are a Black Belt whose credentials no one has the right to challenge.

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    #161898

    fake accrington alert
    Participant

    Don’t  go  ahead

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    #161906

    Brandon
    Participant

    Steven, I back your position on the posting Trev took exception to.
    If the post addresses a concern or query made by a poster then by all means refer them to something you have faith in.
    I’ve referred numerous people to the products of opensourcesixsigma.com when I believe it may provide a solution to their issue. I’ve used their products and find them first rate – glad to recommend them.
    I happen to think that approach is a service to the users.

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    #161907

    Steven Bonacorsi
    Member

    Thanks for the support Brandon,
    I concur, also support Minitab, JMP, ISixSigma, Lean.org, Crystal Ball, IGrafx, Instantis, to name a few and “The Quality Group” which also as an oustanding e-learning company. I even have friends like Eric Maas at Motorola. While I can understand Trev was taking exception to self-promotion, that has never been my intension for the years I have participated on the forums.
    I will add that while I am a proponent of teh value of E-learning, I maintain it is of lower value than classroom training and even better classroom training with live MBB mentoring.
    Just my 2-cents
    Steve Bonacorsi

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    #161908

    Mikel
    Member

    My god man, you do nothing but self promotion.And your claim of training thousands of MBB’s – what BS

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    #161910

    Brandon
    Participant

    Steven, how did you convince Nadine to go with eLearning? She told me a couple of years ago she saw no future in it – the classroom was where it’s at.

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    #161911

    Mikel
    Member

    From the Linkedin site –
    February 2007 — Present (8 months)
    – Steven Bonacorsi is a Senior Master Black Belt instructor and coach. – Mr. Bonacorsi has trained thousands of Master Black Belts, Black Belts, Green Belts, Project Sponsor/Champions and Excutive Leaders in Lean Six Sigma DMAIC and Design for Lean Six Sigma process improvement methodologies.
    Self promotion and BS, heh?

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    #161912

    Mikel
    Member

    I don’t see 20, hell not even 1.
    Just a bunch of self absorbed BS. I never trust someone who speaks of themselves in the third person – just something basically wrong with it.
    Stop the self promotion and I’ll find better posts to respond to.

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    #161915

    Steven Bonacorsi
    Member

    Stan,
    You’re just spinning and taking my words out of context. As stated, I have trained thousands of MBB, BB, GB, PS, DC, and EL’s as a whole. Do you have a point, Stan? While many choose to use a stage name on the forum, I as have others, have elected not to, so deal with it.
    What are you trying to prove? I have a successful track record of results, I can’t say I know the same about you, but I do believe you exemplify leadership qualities very rarely on this forum. Are you even capable of finding common ground, being respectful, or creating open dialogue?

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    #161918

    Steven Bonacorsi
    Member

    Stan,
    Try to follow the instructions – which were to hit the “Full Profile” view and then “Recommendations” – believe there are 25 or so up there at present.
    Steven Bonacorsi
    Lean Six Sigma Master Black Belt
     

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    #161919

    Mikel
    Member

    Stevie,
    I just realized you had a chance to see what I sent you this morning before they took your self promotion down.I could not be more pleased.

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    #161920

    Mikel
    Member

    Stevie,
    Your recommendations cannot be seen by those who are not linked to you. Not real bright are you?

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    #161921

    Steven Bonacorsi
    Member

    Stanley,
    Ditto, and appreciate the sincerity. Thank you
    Steven Bonacorsi
    Lean Six Sigma Master Black Belt

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    #161925

    Stanq
    Member

    Stevie,
    Spinning your words or is your wording spin?
    To quote a not so bright politician of ours – “this ain’t my first rodeo”
    You have a successful track record of results? Don’t think so. I have several relatives who are career military and they ran into to you and ran you off.
    Tell us it ain’t so.

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    #161929

    Steven Bonacorsi
    Member

    It’s ain’t so

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    #161931

    Mikel
    Member

    You want names and dates?

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    #161932

    Mikel
    Member

    While you are at it, why don’t you tell everyone how many self promotion posts you’ve had taken down in the past few days. Take a message from that feedback.

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    #161933

    Quality of programs tenure
    Participant

    The University of New Hampshire is accredited by the following agenices :
    Southern New Hampshire University programs are accredited by:

    Accreditation Commission for Programs in Hospitality Administration
    American Culinary Federation Educational Institute
    Association of Collegiate Business Schools and Programs
    European Council for Business Education (?)
    New England Association of Schools and Colleges
    New Hampshire Postsecondary Education Commission
    New Hampshire State Department of Education for Teacher Certification
    North American Society for Sport Management
    So that counts for garbage in the academic world. Steven’s median tenure at coporations was 8 months. This hardly constitutes enough time to back up the major accomplishments advertised on the site. Every silly little program that Steven ever learned is included in this bio.(MS office, Visio, Powerpoint etc).. job hopper who bails out before the employer really catches up is the best that one can see. There is also no evidence for a serious effort put into the two so called “Mastere’s Program”. (the number of classes mentioned are half of what is expected from even a University of Phoenix, which constitutes the low end of the educational spectrum … This University is even lower thant that).
    In summary: quantitiy (of very poor quality) does not replace quality and the hard work that goes with it. Steven has always taken the easy way out and that reflects in the quality of his current contributions to this form. Thanks for sharing and allowing the disinterested reader to understand the true quality of Stevne’s qualifications. I have never been impressed by the contributions, I am even less impressed by the bio.

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    #161940

    Bev
    Participant

    Maybe you should take a spelling class yourself genius.
    Bev

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