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So many experts with such little experience

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  • #35157

    Richard Schroeder
    Member

    It is amazing to me that so many so called experts are now promoting their capability. Since I hired or trained most of them at one time or another, it is amazing that they are now the knowledge base to lead corporations to Six Sigma nirvana. What a joke—- I would give me great personal pleasure to point out the incompotent of many of these so called experts.

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    #98069

    Mikel
    Member

    Mr. Schroeder,
    Welcome to iSixSigma forum. I can only ask that you live up to the reputation you forged at AlliedSignal. I need someone to take some pressure off of me in this place.

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    #98074

    Ken Feldman
    Participant

    It is indeed a pleasure to have your input into this forum.  But as a small matter of establishing credibility, please use spell check.  Nothing says more about a person than their ability to use proper grammar and spelling in a public forum.  Don’t know how others feel but a resume with spelling and grammar errors usually ends up in the trash.  Except for guys like Gabriel and Dr. Steve and others whose first language is not English.  I know, what I am trying to do, upstage Stanley. We look forward to you straightening out some of the misperceptions regarding SS and its history.

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    #98077

    Mikel
    Member

    Now you have really made me feel bad – not with the upstaging me but in letting me know I’ve been picking on a guy whose first language is not English. I really will try to do better with Dr. Steve. What is the first language, maybe I can make a fool of myself in his language. I know a little Spanish, Brazilian Portuguese, and Italian.

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    #98080

    Ken Feldman
    Participant

    Dr. Steve is a brilliant and kindly gentleman from China.  We all have tremendous respect for his knowledge and his caring when working with his peers, students and project teams.

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    #98082

    Mikel
    Member

    I get it. I am sufficiently humbled for the day. I will do better. I still want to know who the two of you consider the best trainer.

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    #98084

    Ken Feldman
    Participant

    Stan, let’s put it this way.  He was definitely the best one for the job at the time keeping in mind it was more than 2 years ago and things certainly have changed dramatically since that time.  In fact, he is the chosen one for training the senior leadership of our newest family members so he must still be OK.  There are also many interpretations of what might constitute the best trainer.  Obviously I don’t intend to publish his name in a public forum.

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    #98088

    Mikel
    Member

    I agree, I just wanted to know if he was talking about himself.
    No need to publish names, I know several BofA MBB’s, I can find out if I really need to know.

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    #98107

    Anonymous
    Guest

    Richard,
    What is your position on DPMO and Process Sigma in view of the fact that defects aren’t always random and independent?
    Regards,
    Andy Urquhart
     
     

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    #98113

    Gabriel
    Participant

    Darth,
    Thanks for the waiver.
    I agree that spelling, typing, and grammar are important within the scientific and professional enviroments. However, content is much more important.
    In may case, English is not my native language, but this is not the main rason why I feel Ok with the mistakes (I don’t). My Microsoft Word also performs spelling and (basic) grammar checks in English.
    But this is not a scientific magazine, we are not writting papers or articles. This is just a public forum and, because of its speed (a message will be out of view in the first 20 post displayed within a few hours) and the dynamics of the threads it works almost like a chat room.
    You noticed I try to be as helpfull as I can, responding to a lot of messages when I think I can give my 2 cents, and I try to do it in detail providing not only my answer but the reasons why I am saying what I am saying.
    If I had to open Microsof Word, type the message switching several times between Word and Explorer (to see the previous post I am answering), type the message, review the message, perform spelling and grammar checks, correct the mistakes, copy and paste, I would just not do it (not at least with the frquency and detail I am doing it now).
    My view is that, in the context of this forum, the value added by a typo/spelling/grammatical mistakes free answer is almost negligible compared to the added value a helpful answer already has, as long as it clearly undersandable, and would not pay-off the loss in answers, eithr in its frequency or in the quality of its “real” content.
    Of course, we should work towards doing it right the first time, not to use tools to detect mistakes. I am working on that, but it takes long.
    We could say that my Cpk is less than 1 today. Are you willing to accept my non-critical defects or should I shut down the process until I improve it? Because, as I said, performing the 100% check is a cost I am not willing to pay.

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    #98125

    Ken Feldman
    Participant

    Luv ur posts no matter what form they may be in.  I too type very rapidly and I assume our readers read them quickly as well.  But when little care is taken in the writing, some of the longer posts are difficult to read and it does slow down the process.  U R correct in that we r not writing for publication.  If fact, we could do like Deming did and spell everything phonetically, that would save some time as well :-).  Keep posting away and enlightening us with our knowledge.  BTW, this spelling thing is a personal phobia.  I am cursed with finding typos on signs, menus, newspapers, books, etc.  They just jump out at me and say “find me, find me”.  I can be obnoxious so I apologize for projecting my problem on the group.

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    #98131

    Gabriel
    Participant

    A friend of mine used to end her letters with “U R 2 sweet 2 B 4 got 10”
    It took me a good while to get that appreciated me!
    :-)

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    #98135

    An observer
    Participant

    I just read your reply. Reading between the lines, it looks like you have a very hard time admitting that your BUDDY is a better instructor than you or that he is more knowledgeable than you are!
     
    I have been reading your comments for the past few weeks and I have concluded that your knowledge of six sigma is very weak. You have just memorized some concepts without having a deep understanding of six sigma or statistics. You just have a big mouth and a very little knowledge. You completely missed Richard’s point and the only thing you could comment on is his spelling!!!! This is what I mean by saying that you have a big mouth and a little brain.

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    #98136

    Bill Ahls
    Participant

    Go get um’! I smell blood.

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    #98139

    Mikel
    Member

    Wow, you conclude a lot from Darth and my exchange.
    Just when I am starting to be more civil.
    I think your attack on Darth is over the top, I was trying to get clarification on a post by Dr. Steve some time ago that said the BofA CEO was trained by the best trainer in the business. I just wanted to know who they thought was so good and if he was talking about himself. All I think is Dr. Steve is really outstanding or incorrect.
    It is okay to be a good implementor and acknowledge someone is a better trainer than you.

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    #98145

    Ken Feldman
    Participant

    Oh, Mr. Observer, I do enjoy a challenge.  I would love to compare our credentials, experience and knowledge to determine the veracity of your statements.  As for my Buddy, thanks for the psychoanalysis by reading between the lines.  If you have carefully read subsequent posts you would have noted that I was merely reluctant to reveal his name in a public forum.  I have tremendous respect for the capabilities of my Buddy and what makes you conclude that I might not be a better Instructor after all, since you know nothing of either of us.  As for your last statement, it is a personal insult not worthy of this forum.  You will please note, that in none of my posts, have I ever called anyone a name or attacked someone on a personal level.  You actions and post are immature and unprofessional.  Finally, if you read subsequent posts to Richard you will see his professional response along with my apology.  Thank you for your contribution to the betterment of this forum. 

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    #98146

    me
    Participant

    Ahhhh, I see you’ve hit the “guru” phase of your professional career. That is when you cross your arms and carry on about how those below you are so very ignornorant.
    I hope to get there myself someday .

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    #98147

    Ken Feldman
    Participant

    Hope you are not referring to me.  In fact, I’m not even sure what constitutes a “guru”.  Except for Dr. Juran, it is my belief that all the great quality gurus have passed on.  I certainly don’t qualify as one, since no one on this forum has ever argued about a book I have written or a statistic I made up.  But having spent 34 years in the quality field and having had Dr. Deming on my doctoral committee I have learned a little bit about being somewhat crotchity at times and have a unique perspective as to how the quality field has evolved and prospered.  So, a little respect for the old guy and an appreciation that maybe I can still contribute to the SS cause.  I learn something everyday from this Forum and thank all of you for continuing to let me make a living by keeping our profession strong and healthy, despite some of them ignoranus kind of guys.  And I’m still willing to duke it out with that young Observer whippersnapper.

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    #98148

    Bystander
    Participant

    Glad ya complimented that Darth guy.   You know what they say, little brain…big …………  and I don’t mean hands.  Grow up and cut out the personal insults.

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    #98149

    JT
    Participant

    Darth,
    I have read many of your posts and feel you should continue to contribute to the discussions. Anytime we can get the input of someone with that kind of experience to input, we should listen. Keep up with the posts (from a Whippersnapper).

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    #98150

    SSNewby
    Member

    Having had what I thought to be a very knowledgeable and exacting dissertation committee and having benefited immeasurably from their guidance and input, I am truly in awe of your having had Dr. Deming on your committee, what an incredible and memorable experience that must have been.   That is really neat.   What was that experience like?  
     
     (I trust that you are referring to Dr. W. Edwards Deming versus Dr. Ralph Deming from Some Forgotten U.  I realize how easy it is to fall into a well-constructed sarcasm pit in this forum.)

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    #98151

    Sigmordial
    Member

    I believe it is you that has missed the point. Darth has provided some nice contributions to the forum. 
    As to missing Richard’s point, let me try a little of your reading between the lines for Richard’s posting (copied below)

    “It is amazing to me that so many so called experts are now promoting their capability. Since I hired or trained most of them at one time or another, it is amazing that they are now the knowledge base to lead corporations to Six Sigma nirvana. What a joke—-
    I would give me great personal pleasure to point out the incompotent of many of these so called experts.”
    So, he labels these ‘so called experts’ as incompetent, and most of these he has hired or trained.  We really do not need that big of a leap in logic to form a rather unflattering picture.
    Is that fair? Probably not — I do not know Richard, but it appears that others have a rather high regard for him.  So, reading between the lines may not be all that good of an idea.

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    #98152

    Danster
    Participant

    I had the opportunity to enjoy lunch with Dr. Feigenbaum (author of Total Quality Management) at an ASQ American Quality Congress in 2001.  I asked him directly about his comfort at being designated a “Quality Guru”.  He was uncomfortable with the term because he believed his work to be of an objective and technical nature, built on a logical and factual foundation.  “Guru” implied a spiritual, esoteric, mystical oracle which was not reflective of his intentions or aspirations.  Anyone who truly understands the language does the Quality profession a disservice by identifying influential authors and advocates as a “Guru”. 

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    #98153

    Ken Feldman
    Participant

    Yeah, but u gotta luv the visual imagery of an old guy sitting crosslegged on a mountain top wearing a cool sheet spouting out wisdom to those who struggled to climb the mountain.  Most of the so called Gurus were in fact practioners not philosophers.  Good thought.

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    #98154

    BJ
    Participant

    How about “Swami”?   I like it better anyway.

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    #98155

    Ken Feldman
    Participant

    Yes, it was Dr. William Edwards Deming in the flesh.  It was an interesting experience.  With a student he was the antithesis of when he was with a corporate executive.  He was caring and gentle yet wouldn’t spoon feed a thought.  He did like his Scotch and the women but hey, give the guy a break, he earned it by just living that long.  My topic was on one of his 14 Points so that got his attention.  Two other members of my Committee studied with him at NYU and were early “disciples” of his so despite Observer’s attack, I am pretty well grounded in the Quality Improvement field.  One is very active today and has morphed to the SS camp.  Another member was from Industrial Engineering and the final member from Psychology who was the former Dean of the Graduate School.  My Chairman was the Associate Dean of the Business School.  Quite an eclectic Committee with diverse interests and perspectives.  I had a copy of Deming’s original manuscript for Out of the Crisis.  Very difficult to read since he spelled phonetically and wrote as thoughts came into his mind.  Some great stuff though.  As an IE it was pretty easy to appreciate some of his teachings although some of the 14 Points did go against traditional IE thinking.  I keep a picture of him on my desk with my arm around his shoulder to remind me of the tremendous influence he had on my career.

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    #98157

    Ken Feldman
    Participant

    Cool, the Swami of Six Sigma…Now lets find somebody worthy of it.  I guess some of the forum would like to annoint Dr. Harry as SSSS…..that is, Snakeoil Salesman of Six Sigma….ha ha just kidding.

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    #98158

    me
    Participant

    You wrote about Deming ….”I keep a picture of him on my desk with my arm around his shoulder to remind me of the tremendous influence he had on my career”.
    So… what went wrong?  You know so little and yet think of yourself soooo highly (there is a misspelled word here, DARTH).

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    #98159

    JP
    Participant

    To the stans and darths of this board: Don’t you people have work to do? Log off and go do some work.

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    #98160

    SSNewby
    Member

    Wow!  That’s great.   I hope I run into you someday.  If I do, prepare for a few hours of questions about Dr. Deming and your interaction with him and perceptions of him.   Undergrad for me was IE, with MBA, and doctorate in operations research and a lot of my career in quality – so there has been much Deming along the way.   It just gets no better than that!!!

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    #98161

    Ken Feldman
    Participant

    My post was in response to one posted by SSNewby inquiring about my relationship with Deming and was not a proactive post by me.  And why are you threatened by the fact that I have a picture of me and Deming and leap to the conclusion that I think highly of myself.  It was a statement of FACT unlike your emotional response, and of a personal nature.  Possibly it doesn’t belong in a forum such as this and I would respect a comment from you to that regard.  But again, a personal attack demonstrates your immaturity and lack of professionalism.  It is OK for us to be sarcastic at times and even cynical but why the continued personal attacks.  Attack the actions.  Attack the facts. But none of us know anything about each other than what we post so please grow up and stop the personal attacks.  I have restrained myself and even Stan has toned it down a bit.  If you want to initiate some real nastiness into this forum just let me know but I don’t feel it is appropriate nor in the best interest of the Forum.   Let’s keep the debate lively but on balance. 

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    #98162

    Ken Feldman
    Participant

    Similar paths in the past so maybe they will cross in the future.  I will be the old guy huddled in the corner drolling and being attended to my three lovely ladies……OK back to reality.  I will be at the on ramp of I95 and Main Street with the sign saying ” I will consult for food”.

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    #98163

    Ken Feldman
    Participant

    What and miss all this fun!!!!!  OK back to work….Do you want fries with that?

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    #98165

    JP
    Participant

    “What and miss all this fun!!!!! OK back to work….Do you want fries with that?”
    Go back to work…..run along now

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    #98166

    me
    Participant

    Are your comments civilized? Didn’t you post a nasty note under the name of “Bystander” today? It is not the first time either!

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    #98167

    Pitzou
    Participant

    Hi everyone,
    I am new to this site and I am trying to follow-up on the discussion on the subject.  Is this always like this?  English is not my first language too and I feel a little confuse.  Can everyone ask questions on this forum?  Is it only for the Six Sigma specialist?
    I will explore more the site.  Have a nice afternoon everyone.
    Pitzou

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    #98168

    bugtas
    Participant

    Darth,
    we all respect you and appreciate your knowledge and experience on the subject. Your posts added a lot in our knowledge.
    So, please dont get upset by the people like “Me” and others and waste your time answering them, as these people are not worth answering.
    take care :-)

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    #98169

    BJ
    Participant

    Pitzou,
    No.  It’s not always like this.  Sometimes it’s not nearly as productive and professional as today.   Very few English speaking people and practically no Six Sigma specialists participate in the forum.  And, yes, anyone can ask a question and frequently do.   Happy exploring and lower your expectations.     BJ

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    #98171

    Gabriel
    Participant

    Do you all like statistics?
    24 of the last 27 posts in this forum were in this thread. That is nearly 90%. Enough, don’t you think?

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    #98173

    Mike Allen
    Participant

    Thanks for putting things in perspective, Gabriel.  Everyone could benefit from reading “All I Ever Need To Know I Learned in Kindergarten”, by Robert Fulghum.

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    #98174

    Ken Feldman
    Participant

    Agreed so let’s move on.  But u gotta admit we got some fur flying and haven’t had this much fun in a long time.  Last post for me on this thread….no, not on this forum just this thread…don’t celebrate too early.  Thanks to Gabriel for intervening and bringing us to our senses.  Over and out and may the Darkside be with you.

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    #98179

    me
    Participant

    Hey everyone,
    Mr. Darth has spoken, “Over and out and may the Darkside be with you”. We should all listen to him. After all, he has been in quality profession for thirty some years and he once knew Dr. William Edwards Deming ! Don’t forget that he has Dr. Deming’s picture on his desk.

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    #98180

    Mikel
    Member

    Just for the record, I have a plaque of Deming’s 14 points on my desk, and autographed copies of Quality Productivity and the Competitive Position and Out of the Crisis on my bookshelf. I have a picture of myself with Deming and three ladies taken in Newport Beach, CA that I treasure. I am impressed with Darth’s PhD.
    “me” – have you ever read Deming?

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    #98219

    The Real Me
    Member

    Darth,
    I was not referring to you – I was referring to the comments in Mr. Schroeder’s initial post.
    Not that it is important, since no poster’s identity can be verified here, but the person who subsequently replied as “Me” and later as “me” is someone else – not the “Me” who commented on Mr. Schroeder’s guru status. Mr. Schroeder is probably not the real Mr. Schroeder, Mrs. Smith probably isn’t the real Mrs. Smith. I’m pretty sure Mr. Carnell is the real Mr. Carnell.
    I myself feel that, given the public nature of this forum, all comments and opinions are welcome and it is up to the reader to review the postings and be knowledgable enough to trim out information that is incorrect, unimportant, or “dangerous”. It is certainly all very entertaining.
    The only advice given here that I’d really trust is in the form of references/links to real and verifiable textbooks, journals, articles, or web sites.

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    #98231

    webegeek
    Member

    I take it from your post that you don’t advocate humbleness in team forming and negotiation.I’m new to six sigma but middle aged and worked a variety of careers including my own business for eight years. One thing I’ve observed is that there are people who don’t know what they are doing and don’t know they don’t. People that know a little and know they only know a little, people who know a lot but always know there are things they don’t know and finally people who know a lot and think they know it all. The last is more dangerous than the first.I’m a number two with six sigma working hard to one day graduate to a number 3 and hoping I never become a number four.

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