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Solving alcohol problem using Six Sigma?

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  • #36610

    DrD
    Participant

    I just completed my BB training.
    I was just curious to know if anyone has ever thought about solving problems such as alcoholism/cigarette smoking etc. by using the Six Sigma principles and methodologies.
    Any thoughts? Ideas?
     

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    #106023

    walden
    Participant

    I’m afraid the reverse is true…
    I often joke with the BB’s I coach that before Six Sigma, they were happily married and didn’t drink.  I have seen 6 divorces soon after BB training (sample size of 30 or so).
    As for alcohol, week 2 of BB training for our wave consisted of generating a physical Pareto of beer consumed by beer type by stacking the beer bottles on the table in descending frequency.  That’s when the MBB instructor knew we “got it” better than any test.
    Seriously, I often use the example of influencing someone to quit smoking using the Change Acceleration Process.  It works!  Don’t know if you need rigourous Six Sigma statistics or not.
    Chris

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    #106024

    Mikel
    Member

    Dumbest suggestion I’ve seen on here since the capability vs. complexity question.
    Just my opinion.

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    #106029

    Darth
    Participant

    And this from a guy who consumes Jack and Tequila via intravenous.  You don’t think that V has returned to Earth do you?

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    #106036

    Mikel
    Member

    If the question had been using Six Sigma to increase the use, I could have undrstood it.

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    #106040

    Tim
    Member

    You say, “You don’t think that V has returned to Earth do you?”
    Always trying sooo hard to hang out with the “cool” group by putting down others (kind of like what kids do in preschool). I guess some of us never grow up even when we get old and bald.
    V. will get faster to Earth than you because his ship is much closer!

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    #106042

    mcleod
    Member

    Are you serious? SS has NO place in Social Sciences and/or social problems. SS may use similar statistics (ANOVA, t-test, limited factor analysis, failure analysis, etc), however, SS does not use, if extremely rarely, structural equation modeling, multivariate analysis of covariance, ANCOVA, discriminate function analysis, etc. And the experimental designs in the social sciences are way too advanced for SS practitioners. When was the last time a SS practitioner used mixed designs( between and within subjects), matched pairs, triple or more interactions, two or more group designs, multivariate designs with many different IV, DV levels, nonequivalent control-group designs, etc.There are other factors in social research..that SS ignores like dealing with order effects, fatigue effects, carryover effects, sensitization, hypothesis guessing, IV manipulations, confounds, functional relationships, selection bias, maturation regression to the mean, history etc… The list can go on….SS and Social Sciences have many different research questions with social sciences having to deal with variables of multiple determination…an infinite amount of possible variables that affect everyone. The BB and MBB level of knowledge is not sufficient for the kind of research social sciences demand, sorry…..stick with manufacturing, banking, etc (even that isn’t that impressive).

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    #106043

    Ph arth Stan4’rd
    Participant

    Tim:
    Man, you really need to keep a pencil and pad of paper next to your bed, shirt pocket, wherever, and always have it ready to go whenever you come up with a smart jab to spray on the BBB.
    You remind me of the ‘Seinfeld’ episode where George Costanza was being picked on by a co-worker with the Yankees who always had a sarcastic remark for him, and he could never outdo him. Finally, after days of lamenting about it, he came up with a response, but the co-worker had gone to work for a tire company in Akron, Ohio.
    George had to set it up so he could use his comeback in the same circumstances, so he arranged to have the Yankees send up a trial balloon for a Yankee/Tire Company day and got himself sent to Akron to meet with the guy and his bosses. He brought a full shrimp tray which he was eating during the meeting, to get the guy to use the same jab he had used, so George could use his prefered comeback.
    And the moral of the story, like your lame little bash, it looked better on paper than it appeared in real life!! Reread your post and you’ll see! Let’s all use Six Sigma to improve Tim’s posts!

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    #106046

    mjones
    Participant

    Scott-
    While I know a number of SS folks with extensive education and the ability to apply many of the methods you mention, I won’t enter into a debate about the level of sophistication of statistical applications, but some questions do come to mind.
    No doubt I am biased and perhaps poorly informed, but having worked as a MBB for several years now, I have personally been involved with hundreds of projects saving many millions of $$, I know of many multi-millions saved by folks I associate with, plus there are papers, presentations, stories, etc., documenting many, many billions of $$ in savings. I have to wonder: what savings have Social Science researchers (you and your peers?) contributed to our society in the same time frame? (And, savings can and should include actual cash money plus soft $$$ from improved quality of life.)  If the sophistication of the stat methods is what makes the difference, why is there not a ready answer to the question posed on alcohol use? In fact, why is this question even being asked? Why has this and many other social problems not been solved already by folks in the field?
    Please don’t misunderstand; I’m not suggesting that SS is the answer for all questions. I’m just saying that SS has contributed to a lot of improvements that have had significant positive effects on the competitiveness of our society. OK, maybe we’re not sophisticated but we get results.
    Strikes me that similar improvements in healthcare, education, government, and social issues could add a lot to the quality of all our lives. Are these things going to be effectively addressed by Social Science Researchers or SS? Or both?  I think there are enough opportunities for improvement to go around. Everyone that can help should. Even if we lack the sophistication you suggest is required.
    Best regards!

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    #106070

    Darth
    Participant

    Hey Tim, welcome back.  Phil just called from the Store. He has set aside a case of spray paint for your weekend JO Club meeting.  Have a good weekend and please introduce yourself to me at the upcoming SS Conference in CLT that the bank is sponsoring.  Look forward to meeting you.  Please feel free to bring along your fellow club members.

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    #106091

    mcleod
    Member

    mjones,you said:
    “If the sophistication of the stat methods is what makes the difference, why is there not a ready answer to the question posed on alcohol use? In fact, why is this question even being asked? Why has this and many other social problems not been solved already by folks in the field?”While SScience uses more elaborate stat methods (not all the time)I’m emphasizing the level of research design needed to carry out large scale research regarding social problems. Consider alcohol use: there can be hundreds of thousands of variables responsible for alcohol abuse. And the cause for one person’s abuse of alcohol may not the same for another. In fact if you have 30 different alcoholics you can have 30 different possible causes. Is it genetic, environmental, combination, other, etc. Just the environmental factor can have a huge amount of sub factors within itself. A huge problem in social science research is the fact of multiple determinate affecting the IVs and DVs. A major issue is how to isolate these variables in research without having confounds spoil research.Same goes for cigarette smoking…many people may get cancer from it and some may smoke for forty or sixty years and not have a problem. Since not all smokers get cancer, one cannot say smoking causes cancer 100% of the time. Why is that? How does one isolate people’s histories to make them equivalent on history, make them lead the same exact life doing everything the same so we can try rule out environmental factors and focus next on genetic predisposition, then type of cigarettes, etc. It is impossible to do all of this and also unethical. Longitudinal and cross-sectional designs attempt to analyze the time sequence of individuals but these deigns also have problems.This problem of being able to isolate certain variables out of hundreds of thousands so that cause/effect can be established is very tough (correlation, although helpful is not enough). On top of that, throw in ethical concerns regarding human/animal research and one can appreciate the difficulty in social science research. It is difficult to put a dollar amount on how much social science has saved us (I’m talking about society as a whole). By the nature of what I just described, dollar results are extremely difficult to quantify in this area of research.

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    #106095

    Stevo
    Member

    D – I drink too much.
    M – 3 Zima’s and 12 Bud lights.
    A – I drink because: my wife left me, my dog died and I crashed my pick-up.
    I – Fix the pick-up, get a new dog, and send off for a new bride.
    C – Go live in a cave so nothing bad can happen.
     Stevo

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    #106108

    billybob
    Participant

    Hello folks,
    I like to have my share of fun at this ISS. But this is really a set of crappy threads to a straight original question which was can SS solve social issues.  The reply by Steve was sort of to the point in a roundabout way.  SS doesn’t solve anything, its the tools DMAIC that do.  How the heck do you think dependancies problems are solved?  MAIC is put into place its its own medical / social way which shows success or failure like any other project.
    No, im not a social worker or anywhere close to one and no I haven’t been cured of any of my vises yet (which i don’t have..well bad ones anyways). 
    Later,
    Billybob
     

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    #106117

    Markert
    Participant

    Stevo:
    Put it to music, and I think we have a Six Sigma county music chart topper. (Maybe a p-chart after all those bud lights.)
     

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    #106120

    Markert
    Participant

    JOC — FYI:
    The Store offers our valued JO Club members an extra 5% off on your purchases, with the exception of fireworks, spray paint, candy, and Britney Spears CD/Videos. Show your membership card to the cashier for the discount. 
    Find Betty in our operations department and she will have you paged several times,  so you’ll think you’re important when you hear your name. Other shoppers will be impressed!!
    If your order includes at least 2 pads of paper and pens, you’ll get another 5% discount!!! Working to make sure you feel important and enjoy your shopping experience. Our Store.

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    #106134

    KBailey
    Participant

    DOE and other analysis tools are helpful, but are not unique to Six Sigma. One could apply Six Sigma to treatment and measurement processes – or even to education/socialization processes if you were really ambitious.

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    #106137

    Mikel
    Member

    Again a dumb answer to a stupid question. There are successful treatment programs in place and have been for many years.
    Go read the Big Book (available on line at http://www.aa.org/bigbookonline/en_tableofcnt.cfm) if you are confused about the method.
    The idea that a bunch of snot nosed BB’s who have discovered Six Sigma and learned to use some tools in the last few years think they can take on really important human issues is just plain ignorant. It’s a lot more complicated than that.

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    #106138

    Stevo
    Member

    Stan,
    I’m not sure if it’s my 3rd grade education, living in my mom’s basement or that I’m a snot nosed BB, could be a combination.  But sometimes it’s not all that complicated, some people just make it complicated.
    See a problem, fix a problem.  I don’t care what you call it:  Six Sigma, Lean, who cares!!
    Stevo

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    #106140

    Mikel
    Member

    I agree it should be that easy, but some folks really do have demons and it is hard. I lived with one for 20 years and tried to help including trying to teach her much of what we do in Six Sigma long before most of you knew what it is. She is still killing herself 10 years later. It has messed with her life, my life, and our kids lives, I don’t think its something for the inexperienced to mess with.
    Remember the Serenity Prayer (personalized version) –
    God grant me the serenity to accept the people I cannot change,
    Courage to change the people that I can change,
    and the wisdom to know that it is me.

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    #106141

    Markert
    Participant

    Stevo:
    See, you really are JO Club material afterall. You met two of the criteria, a 3rd grade education, and living in your mom’s basement.
    Darth made a wise choice in you. Congrats!!!

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    #106144

    walden
    Participant

    The idea that a bunch of snot nosed BB’s who have discovered Six Sigma and learned to use some tools in the last few years think they can take on really important human issues is just plain ignorant. It’s a lot more complicated than that.
    I agree with Stan and Scott….

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    #106146

    KBailey
    Participant

    Stan, did someone stroke your fur the wrong way? I’d think you were joking, but since your response isn’t funny, I’ll assume you’re serious.
    “There are successful treatment programs in place.” What does that have to do with whether Six Sigma could add value? There are also a lot of UNsuccessful treatment programs in place. There are successful processes in place in every industry. That doesn’t mean there’s not room to improve some or all of them by applying the Six Sigma BOK and methodology.
    Furthermore, the original question wasn’t limited in scope to treatment programs. Addressing a problem suggests prevention, not just treatment.
    Finally, many of the tools a BB would use are the same ones already being applied in the field of chemical dependency treatment. Chemical dependency treatment, like every other field out there, involves smart people who know a lot about what they do but who don’t always know the best way to methodically approach the problem. Well, if they can define a process, Six Sigma gives them a methodical approach.

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    #106147

    KBailey
    Participant

    If you want to disagree with the reasoning, stick to that and back it up with some substance.
    If you just want to call peoples’ answers “dumb” and questions “stupid”, you might want to keep this in mind: when you throw insults around and are then proven to be wrong, instead of others seeing you as mistaken they’re going to see you as deserving the very same adjectives you used and worse.

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    #106152

    mjones
    Participant

    Scott-
    I understand what you are saying, and I even substantially agree. Yes, SScience research is complicated; it requires complicated analysis; many issues are very large scale; lots of variation in the human condition(s); political/ethical issues have great influence; etc.; etc.; etc. And, absolutely, it can be very, very difficult to put a value on the results of your research.
    First of all, believe it or not, not everyone involved in SS is a snot-nosed “just discovered SS 2 years ago and think it can solve everything.”
    Second, while I certainly respect the issues you face, some of us have been and are facing similar challenges every day we apply SS principles for a while now, in various ways. OK, I grant you that, overall, SS applications are not as complex as yours, but the applications are still challenging — especially to the many who are still discovering and are new to applying the process. I just don’t see many simple, cookie cutter, cut and paste, just-like-the-textbook problems/solutions. It takes lots of work from effective teams of people to get these results that are so obvious — after the fact.
    Third, I understand only too well how hard it is to quantify the value of what you do. It is often not easy to quantify the value of SS projects, and other things we do. But, when we do SS projects and can estimate, with valid data, the value to the organization and, therefore, to our society, it gives us personal pride, and credibility with others and with our organizations. Just because it is hard to quantify does not mean it is impossible, or that it should not be done. In fact, the more difficult something is to quantify often means proper efforts have not already been made and/or that there are incredible opportunities out there that have not been explored.
    I would encourage you to have your research not just “study” problems, but make clear and measurable progress toward solving problems. Most SScience work is financed by taxes that we pay or donations we contribute. We would like to see results — not to suggest that you don’t.
    Put another way, instead of putting down the SS for the elementary approach, consider what you can learn from it. With all the successes, there is bound to be something worthwhile going on out here…somewhere.
    And, most sincerely, I wish you the best in your efforts because what you do could affect family, my children, grandchildren and, therefore, me personally. I encourage you to use all sources of methods that could help you build successes. I wish to discourage you from simply disregarding a part of our society that has achieved a multitude of successes because, in your view, the approaches are not of sufficient sophistication to be considered.
    Again, best regards.       

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    #106155

    Charmed SIX
    Participant

    I fully agree with you,regards.

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    #106161

    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dr. D,
    In my opinion alcoholism is a serious disease with, ironically, a ‘spiritual dimension.’
    Best regards,
    Andy

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    #106162

    Darth
    Participant

    Dr.D,
    You certainly have received a broad array of comments so far.  I believe that the treatment of Alcohol related disease might actually fall under the DMAIC structure.  We could Define the process of alcohol abuse, albiet psychological, physiological and social.  We could certainly Measure certain characteristics and the effects of treatment.  We could Analyze the problem of the treatment.  We certainly could Improve the treatment plan and finally Control it for ongoing maintenance of a drug free existence.  The Twelve Step recovery  process used by most AA/NA addicts lays out pretty well with DMAIC.  Granted, SS alone at a Boil the Ocean level is woefully inadequate to solve the problem, as are apparently current efforts since substance abuse is still so prevalent in our society.  But at an individual and thus simpler level, it might provide a decent framework.

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    #106163

    Mikel
    Member

    The truth is that no one doing Six Sigma is even being completely successful where they are now. When you do that, come back to Six Sigma being the end all be all for all of human kinds woes.
    My only point is that if you think the human relationship stuff is hard in your place of work, you need to understand it is tee ball compared to things like drug abuse and alcoholism.

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    #106164

    Mikel
    Member

    Hey, another dumb response.
    When you prove me wrong, I’ll apologize. As far as I can tell your opinion about this has no data behind it. You do remember that Six Sigma involves data?

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    #106168

    sez who?
    Member

    You do remember that Six Sigma involves data?    Yeah, sez who?   From what I can tell reading comments in the forum and thinking about the positions taken by the various Six Sigma experts, it involves hyperbole and an arcane convolution of scientific problem solving and statistical applications – all packaged as the corporate savior regardless of your industry and market segment.   All of which is pretty amazing to watch, study, apply, and see work.  [I understand that my comments will be described as stupid, groundless, and a de facto application to the SS JO Club, but that’s OK – it’s nice to be an active member of something so broad-based and roundly discussed.]  

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    #106170

    Mikel
    Member

    Nope, I agree. Good observation.

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    #106180

    On Behalf of Phil
    Participant

    Mr. Sez Who,
    I regret to inform you that your application for admission to the JO Club has been rejected.  Your post was well written, grammatically correct and expressed a personal opinion rather than a personal attack.  Please feel free to apply again in the future.
    By the way, your 5% discount card at the Store has also been revoked due to your failure to meet the low standards of admission.

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    #106181

    KBailey
    Participant

    Stan, what Six Sigma planet are you on? “Completely successful?” Where are you getting that? “Completely successful” means 100% perfection. Every Six Sigma practioner I know recognizes that’s an impossibility.
    The reason you apply Six Sigma is because it’s more likely to get you closer to perfection than most other approaches to improvement out there and WAY more likely than no improvement method at all.
    Nobody ever said that Six Sigma is the end all and be all for human kinds’ woes. All we said is that it could be of value; that it could help.
    Applying your standard that Six Sigma has to be completely successful first, I’m going to throw it right back at you and tell you to drop your attitude until you can demonstrate a chemical dependency treatment or any other program that is “completely successful.”

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    #106182

    Markert
    Participant

    To On Behalf of Phil:
    Thank you. I would have said exactly the same thing, had I not been elsewhere examining my own naval.
    After meeting with the local Zoo’s monkey and the town idiot, who advise the admission segment of membership board of the JO Club, Mr. Sez Who, you’re outta there!!! You can now freely purchase spray paint without guilt.
    It was a very insightful post.
    Wondering if Mr. Sez Who and On Behalf of Phil are the same person, in fact that Doctor 1% etc,? As he is a cagey and smart one……

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    #106184

    Darth
    Participant

    Phil,
    I concur with your and the Monkey’s decision to reject Sez Who’s application.  It is apparent he lacks the low intellect and dour personality to be a member of the JOC.  Stevo on the other hand…. :-).
    Regards to the Town Idiot and tell Tim and John hey as well.  I hope they all had a good day shopping at the Store.
     

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    #106186

    Markert
    Participant

    In case you did not know,
    Dr. Phil = Dr. Darth
     

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    #106188

    Darth
    Participant

    Again, I am flattered by the equality sign but am unworthy of such a comparison.  Stans, Mike Carnell, mjones and Sigmordial will all confirm that the equation should be:
    Dr. Phil > Dr. Darth
    for Darth is not Phil nor Phil, Darth.

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    #106192

    CKO
    Participant

    DrD,
    Having recently quit smoking, I’d have to say that the bastards at Philip Morris probably developed SS (Motorola is the social cover-story) in a quest to keep anyone that every inhaled so much as one time, a walking chimney for life.
    Regarding the alcohol, I’d say that after personally consuming 3000 cases of Molson Golden, I have yet to discover a defect.
    I applaud your line of thinking though-very optimistic.
    Tim
    ps  sez who, that was impressive
     

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    #106194

    The real Phil
    Member

    Darth:
    I must regretfully advise you of a fraudulent posting which you answered with your observation. This “I pee pee” must have gotten through the highly technical security measures the isixsigma community has set up with some high level of computer hacking skills. Or perhaps he just has a computer and used Phil as his screen name. It is all to difficult to imagine, as I am shocked and mortified.
    Sorry you were inconvienenced in feeling you had to once again set the record straight, and you are much to generous in your usage of font-ular pica point size and the generous use of  >, and the use of your choice of bold. You are a gentleman. Your humble servant.
    The real Phil.
    P.S. The Monkey and the Town Idiot will vouch for me.

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    #106197

    Nobody Expert
    Participant

    Please advise me to certain steps that could help to promote SS ,specially in third-world countries ,thanks and regards.

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    #106209

    KBailey
    Participant

    In third-world countries in general, in your country, or in another specific country?
    Unless you’re in a very influential international leadership position, my suggestion is this: don’t set out to save the world.
    The best way I know to promote real SS is to apply the tools and discipline where you are. Be successful with it yourself. People who really want to be successful will imitate others who are successful. It’s a waste of time trying to convince people who are more interested in being right than being successful.

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    #106210

    speedball
    Member

    Why promote six sigma at all?
    This is just common sense.
    Six sigma uses the same tools systems engineers have always used – they just put new names on them and wrapped them in mystique and needless bureaucracy.
    And as a solution six sigma is incomplete.
    SYSTEMS THINKING  (of which six sigma tools support a small part of ) is the thing to promote worldwide. 
    Systems Thinking is taught to rising midlevel managers  who will be the new SES execs.  But our congressfolks and Politicians know nothing of systems approaches, logical thinking, or ethics. 
    Let’s look at the real root cause of our problems and address them not local fixes.
     
     
     
     

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    #106212

    Darth
    Participant

    Speedball, possibly you are taking an overly simplistic point of view.  Could you please elaborate on your statement that “Six sigma uses the same tools systems engineers have always used – they just put new names on them and wrapped them in mystique and needless bureaucracy.”
    I assume you are one of those systems engineers.  Please describe where you used all the process tools, statistical tools, Lean tools, behavioral tools, strategic planning tools and DFSS tools in your systems engineering work? 
    I am not sure where you have read that SS is the complete solution to all the ills of business and society.  Agreed, some have attempted to convince us of that but it is merely a structured methodology not a geopolitical weapon to change the world.  As in many structured approaches, the application is quite flexible and diverse.  But I am not sure anyone….at least in their right mind…would claim that SS is the magic bullet.
    Finally, out of curiousity, how does your organization, which I assume is not engaged in SS, doing from a business perspective?  If we compared organizations who have seriously implemented SS versus those that rely on Systems Engineers, what do you believe would be the results?  If the Systems Engineer and Systems Thinking is as good as you claim, then why the need to even develop SS and why the current widespread  popularity?  You made some strong statements, are you prepared to support your position?  And blaming it on Congress is pretty much of a cop out.

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    #106227

    Nobody Expert
    Participant

    Thank You for responding.But consider the Japanese as they have and still put much efforts to dissiminate and promote their TQM & Kaizen Concepts world-wide (even they are enjoying such efforts).I think some 3rd world countries havn’t even heard the concept (SS).It si still worth (in my humble opinion) to put some efforts to market and promote this concept.thanks and kind regards.  

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    #106241

    Cecelia Brendel
    Participant

    The August 2004 edition of Quality Progress magazine is a special issue about “personal quality”. Using QMS techniques to manage your personal life. See http://www.asq.org Hope this helps. Cecelia

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    #106261

    Stevo
    Member

    Damn, I’ll be club president soon (I’m updating my resume as we speak).
    Continuing my impressive streak of non value add imput, here’s more:
    Six Sigma is a tool, just like therapist have there tools, and there is a time and place for each.  The might overlap, they might not.  If the tool is appropriate use it, if not, don’t “F” it up by trying to force it.
    Stevo
    ps.  What a weird thread, Stan having a rare heart felt emotional break down, a misdirected post about 3rd world countries and someone quoting their band director (one time, in band camp…)

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    #106264

    Mikel
    Participant

    Same goes for cigarette smoking…many people may get cancer from it and some may smoke for forty or sixty years and not have a problem. Since not all smokers get cancer, one cannot say smoking causes cancer 100% of the time. Why is that? How does one isolate people’s histories to make them equivalent on history, make them lead the same exact life doing everything the same so we can try rule out environmental factors and focus next on genetic predisposition, then type of cigarettes, etc. It is impossible to do all of this and also unethical.
    agreed 100%………a very tough thing to do

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    #106278

    Niranjan Nanavaty
    Participant

    Solving Alcohol problem or smoking using Six Sigma
    It may be worthwhile looking at the querry seriously. After all progrsss is often through out-of-the-box thinking.
    Why not view thses as behavioural deficiency  causing loss of productivity and waste of resources? Let me make one suggestion.
    Set some time and cost target. Start measurement in absolute terms and as a % of expenses one incurrs on one self and/or the family. Do not keep information only to oneself but to share with your family memebers. Family members are interested parties.
    I have used Six Sigma methdology for personal issues. For fun and  without much of maths.
    N. S. Nanavaty 
     
    N. S. Nanavaty

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    #106287

    C K O
    Participant

    speedball said “
    Systems Thinking is taught to rising midlevel managers  who will be the new SES execs.  But our congressfolks and Politicians know nothing of systems approaches, logical thinking, or ethics. 
    Ladies and Gentlemen, behold, the “Internet Soapbox”.
    …did he say medieval managers ??
     
    My advice,get people talking about the success stories. It’ll most likely snowball after that.

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    #106309

    Mikel
    Member

    Would you please tell us your understanding of alcohol, drug, compulsive, or additive behaviors? You are on a soapbox about something which I doubt you have any knowledge of.

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    #106311

    OLD
    Participant

    Stan:
     
    Time to let this thread come to an end….. Your first post represented your thoughts and your subsequent posts support the first (the link to the Big Book was excellent). Let kbailey attempt to answer the question posed by DrD and let DrD decide who has presented the facts.
     Having lived with someone who has an addictive behavior doesn’t make you an expert on the behavior itself but rather, it makes you an expert on how the addiction has devastated your loved one and the people who love them. The true experts are those that have experienced the addiction and have recovered to live another day – day by day. That expertise is one we all pray no one has to develop.     OLD

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    #106312

    Onlooker
    Participant

    You hit the old nail right on the head Stan. Noooobody
    has any knowledge bout nutt’in but you. Go get a cyber
    space gestapo seal and stick it on your computer so your
    mom will be impressed. Soapbox? You never got off
    yourself.

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    #106315

    KBailey
    Participant

    Sorry, Stan. I’m not taking the bait. I don’t need to prove anything to you. Considering the differences between people, no matter what I say you can dismiss it as incomplete/shallow/misleading, and call it a dumb response to a stupid question.
    The only soapbox I’m on is the one about whether you should try something before you give up on it, just because one “expert” thinks it’s a waste of time. Where would we be if not for people pushing through skepticism, defeatism, and negativity to prove the “experts” wrong about whether there’s a better way of doing things?
    Regards.

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    #106376

    Mikel
    Member

    Okay Onlooker, you are on. I see nothing but this type drivel from you. Do you actually know anything?
    Instead of my emotional response to the Alcohol question, let me make a more general observation about the “thinking” around Six Sigma. We are going into group think with this, the answer to everything is Six Sigma. Well it isn’t.
    Let’s see kbailey’s response to various questions –
    Q – What do you think about the situation in Israel?
    A – DOE and other analysis tools are helpful, but are not unique to Six Sigma. One could apply Six Sigma to terrorism and measurement processes – or even to hatred/socialization processes if you were really ambitious.
    Q – What do you think about AIDS?
    A – DOE and other analysis tools are helpful, but are not unique to Six Sigma. One could apply Six Sigma to treatment and measurement processes – or even to prevention/socialization processes if you were really ambitious.
    Q – What do you think about the war on terror?
    A – DOE and other analysis tools are helpful, but are not unique to Six Sigma. One could apply Six Sigma to battle plans and measurement processes – or even to evil doers if you were really ambitious.
    ….
    The point is there are some really hard problems out there – a lot harder than running a business. Are there smart people with a lot more education and sophisticated analysis tools that a Black Belt working on them?
    This naive Pollyana approach that now I have received the Holy Graille of Six Sigma, I can take on problems of human nature is not realistic. Go get yourself invited to a local treatment clinic and tell them you are there to help. They need help but it will not be your Black Belt skills they need.
    If the question was – Are there processes involved in physical and mental health care that can be improved using Six Sigma tools? The answer is of course. This is being done in non-profits all over the country – but they cannot and do not touch the basic issues of poverty, homelessness, alcohol and drug abuse, spouse and child abuse, basic hatred for ones neighbors, …
    I volunteer in some non-profit areas, go do the same. They will welcome you but will not care one bit about your Black Belt skills. I just helped in the clean up of the hurricane in Southwest Florida, they needed hands, not my opinion that Six Sigma could help them.

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    #106377

    mcleod
    Member

    This naive Pollyana approach that now I have received the Holy Graille of Six Sigma, I can take on problems of human nature is not realistic. Go get yourself invited to a local treatment clinic and tell them you are there to help. They need help but it will not be your Black Belt skills they need.
    well said Stan…

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    #106378

    R Dogg
    Participant

    Well put.
    Simply the best post I have read on this forum in over a year.
    Everyone needs a good dose of perspective from time to time….

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    #106380

    1 et al
    Participant

    As much as I hate to just “agree” with you – without picking at it first.   I agree wholeheartedly with you and think your post should resonate well with most.  Thanks for getting past your normal shyness and expressing your thoughts and feelings on this.

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    #106389

    DrD
    Participant

    Thank you all for your wide range of thoughts in this matter.
    I was on vacation in TX, so I finally go the opportunity to read the messages. I simply feel that alcoholism is a serious defect in our life process (although I am myself a generous consumer of alcohol, but not an alocholic) and I cannot see why this defect can be reduced/eliminated using SS methodologies. I know it can be a very complicated/sophisticated huge project, but if every BB/MBB/GB works on an individual case and can come up with atleast a theoretical solution, we can have an enormous amount of information and knowledge. And this knowledge can be thoroughly studied and applied in real life.
    I think it can be done. All it takes is your heart.
     

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    #106390

    mcleod
    Member

    I know it can be a very complicated/sophisticated huge project, but if every BB/MBB/GB works on an individual case and can come up with atleast a theoretical solution, we can have an enormous amount of information and knowledge. And this knowledge can be thoroughly studied and applied in real life.
    I think it can be done. All it takes is your heart.
    What can the SS folks bring to the table that the Social Science researchers have not aleady?

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    #106391

    DrD
    Participant

    SS is fresh………

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    #107220

    Dr Frank
    Participant

    I think six sigma is for more serious approach

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    #107221

    1
    Participant

    Sorry, Dr. Frank, your input just now was meaningless.  Please try again.  It appears that you were intending to convey something significant about Six Sigma and its clinical application and I’d hate to miss the insight.    1%

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    #107231

    Nobody Expert
    Participant

    Sorry:out of some sense of humor (if you kindly permit that):What do you mean  by 1%?Is it the alcohol percetage rate or what?  regards.

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    #107234

    1??
    Participant

    Nope, if it had been preferred alcohol percentage it would have read >1%.   It is 1% as an outgrowth of a snotty forum back and forth months ago about the percentage of PhDs in the US population.  But it would up more of a “who cares anyway?” and it turns out nobody did.   And by the way – a sense of humor in the forum is not only permitted, it is required (your self-effacing forum name indicates that you have a sense of humor).  

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    #107246

    Nobody Expert
    Participant

    Appreciate your kind response.Thank You,regards.

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