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  • #46095

    harathi
    Participant

    Hello everyone,
    I badly need some input. We are trying to buy an spc software for our company. We have a sql database into which we get our process data through wonderware activefactory every 2 seconds. And there is also an oracle database where few of our quality checks data gets stored. We want a software which can get data from both of these databases and plot the different charts (control charts etc) on a real time basis.
    We are in the process of evaluating winspc, infinityqs, statistica, QI analyst..Any suggestions or comments are most welcome..
    we also saw the demos of zontec, pqsystems and northwest analytical which we did not like much…
    Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated..
    thanks!
     

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    #151893

    Heebeegeebee BB
    Participant

    I liked Infinity-QS.  

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    #151896

    harathi
    Participant

    Thanks for the reply!
    Did you evaluate any other softwares? If so, how did you make the decision?
    Do you use any infinity qs drivers?
    Thanks!

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    #151933

    Heebeegeebee BB
    Participant

    I’ve Used Infinity-QS, Several homegrown programs and Dragon.
    Infinity-QS met all of our needs at a reasonable price.

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    #151935

    harathi
    Participant

    Thanks a lot for the reply.
    Our IT thinks using infinity tables might be a problem. We have most of our data already in a sql server. If we use infinity, that data would be stored again in infinity’s tables. That is a concern for our IT.
    Do you have any data from the machines stored in databases for which infinity plots the charts? I used infinity in my previous company for an year…however that was mostly for QC where the data was entered using infinity interface rather than PLC’s and HMI’s..
    Please reply!
    Thanks!

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    #151936

    Heebeegeebee BB
    Participant

    I.T.’s concerns should be noted, but the decision should be based on the bottom line impact to your Company.  
    You could even bridge the gap via manual entry/analysis via access db and  Minitab, or similar package.

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    #151937

    Isaac Arroyo
    Participant

    Hi There is a Sotfware called PROMESS it works really good to me, and we use PLC data transmition.(SIEMENS)

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    #151939

    Rudy
    Member

    In order to make the best decision, I need to understand what you are trying to accomplish with the data.
    Certain Quality applications provide better functionality than others.  If you are looking for SPC (which I define as “real time” quality control) then there are good applications for that purpose which may include control charts in your hmi’s for your operators to make decisions.  If you are looking at more of a “post mortum” quality that would be SQC, and there are applications that better suit that functionality.
    In my humble opinion, the applications that provide both SPC and SQC functionality are decent (80/20), but they might not be consider world class in either.
    I can recommend all kinds of applications to you, but to be considerate and worthy of your time, I would like more information about your need.  Thank you.  Looking forward to your reply.

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    #151940

    harathi
    Participant

    Thanks for the replies!
    Basically, we are trying to accomplish two things.
    First, operators doing the checks and entering the data into the software and getting real time control charts for that. This data should go into oracle database.
    Second, the data coming from PLC’s and HMI’s is being stored in Industrial sql server using wonderware historian. We want to get required data from this server and plot the charts.
    The second part has tons of data..we collect almost every two seconds..
    Can you please suggest something that would meet both of these requirements?
    Thanks!

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    #151938

    harathi
    Participant

    Yes, I know it is important to consider IT’s concerns. But when I try to fill the gap, the softwares dont live upto the engg expectations.
    We already have jump..
    Thanks!

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    #151941

    Rudy
    Member

    Ok…  a couple more questions.
    Are you using Wonderware’s HMI, and if so, are you using the SPCPro functionality to do the realtime control charts?  If so, this data is (can be) stored in an SQL or Access database.  You can readily move data from MSSQL into Oracle using standard Microsoft or Oracle techniques.  The ease depends on which versions.
    Since you seem to have Wonderware applications, Wonderware’s newest version of QI Analyst 8.0 will solve both of your problems. 
    First, you can create your process database in QI8 in either SQL or Oracle, which gives you a native Oracle database, versus one created using data transformation. You will still be able to use the real time controls charts in your HMI, depending on which flavor you have.  They are typically ActiveX objects that must be contained.
    Second, QI Analyst provides a direct connection to your InSQL database, and you can create datasets directly from data that resides there, and populate control charts with all kinds of historical data.  You are somewhat limited by which control charts you can use, most Individual R charts, but QI does allow (facilitate) many types of analysis on this data.  (Histograms, Paretos etc.)  Also, in addition to the Real Time control charts, you get a Web Interface to view SPC/SQC type reports.
    QI fits into that category of an application that provides BOTH SPC and SQC functionality.  It will give you roughly 80/20, and the things that you don’t get out of the box must be custom created using the tools within the product.  The data doees reside in SQL databases (or Oracle) if need be, and is easy to mine if you understand SQL Reporting Services (SQL2005).
    I hope this helps.  Also, Northwest Analytical… which I read that you evaluated and did not really like, also has a connector which will allow you to mine and display data directly from InSQL.  I agree that it is rather clunky the way they do it.
    Also remember that as long as any application supports connectivity to databases (OLE DB or ODBC for example) that chances are they can provide the functionality you desire.  At this point however you will have to consider your cost of engineering the solution.  The software packages will roughly cost you the same… so the only place you can get a faster return is to reduce the cost of implementation.
    I hope this helps.

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    #151997

    harathi
    Participant

    thanks a lot for the reply..that was really helpful..we are going to look at QI analyst…One thing we already dont like is their support…lets c how it goes..
    Thanks again!

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    #152022

    Smith
    Member

    Mitutoyo’s MeasurLink SPC software can work with Wonderware. The last company I was with was using it and both SQL databases communicated. This was not an out of the box solution, but they had done it before and was not a big issue.This was not my project, but I sat in on a few meetings. So I don’t know if it will work exactly as you need.stu

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    #152085

    accrington
    Participant

    I use the ODBC link in MINITAB to access a number of Oracle databases, including a factory QC database, containing all variables measured with shopfloor gauges, and a LIMS system containing chemical and physical analysis. It has served me well for at least six years. The LIMS system also has Quality Analyst, which produces nice charts.
    The draw back (certainly in v 14.2) with MINITAB is that it does not automatically refresh the charts, and can’t be used for real – time display, (as far as I’ve been able to find out). You might want to talk to those nice MINITAB people to see what v 15 can do.
    A cheap and cheerful package, which I evaluated some years ago with our IT people is ChartRunner, which seemed to work OK.Also my South African colleagues use SEWSS, which they tell me works well, but they had a lot of problems with implementation.
    Hope this helps

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    #152095

    harathi
    Participant

    thanks for the reply. this certainly helps.
    Vidhya

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    #152099

    Ozarski
    Participant

    Accrington,
    You can have charts update automatically in Minitab 14.  First create the chart you need, then right click on the chart and choose to Update Chart Automatically.  If you do this, when you enter new data the chart will update.  If you have any questions, please call us at Minitab.Thanks,Jeff O

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    #152103

    harathi
    Participant

     
    In MINITAB,
    Do we get alarms about out of control conditions? Also, can we put assignable causes and corrective actions? Does it have precontrol chart?
    I used minitab 14 for 2 yrs.. It works great..But I thought its more of a post analysis tool like jump..
     

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    #152106

    Anonymous
    Participant

    It is JMP not jump

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    #152109

    harathi
    Participant

    Thanks for correcting me..my bad..

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    #152112

    Professor
    Participant

    anonymous is a professor. it’s his second nature … he knows his stuff though!

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    #152177

    Ozarski
    Participant

    Minitab is not set up for alarms for out of control conditions and assigning special causes like real time SPC packages.  It really is designed as a post analysis tool, but you can do automatic updating of charts if that is all you need.

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    #152190

    vidhya
    Member

    Thanks for the reply..Thats what I thought about minitab..

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    #152191

    Anonymous
    Participant

    I would never recommend Minitab for real time SPC. The control chart auto update default mode automatically recalculates the control limits with each new data point.  The workaround requires you to first enter the historical mean and stdev when you create the chart.
    I assumed that this error in SPC implementation that first appeared in  Version 14 would be fixed but alas it’s still there in V15.    

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    #152555

    harathi
    Participant

    Thanks a lot to everyone and especially Rudy for taking time to advise. We saw the QI analyst today. We liked it. I somehow got the QI analyst 4.0 and saw how it worked. Seems like it would meet our requirements.
    We will try to do a pilot testing. I hope everything goes well. The product is really good but the customer support is bad especially if you need technical support on setting up the projects. For everything they would charge us.
    But since the product meets everyone’s requirements we like it. There are only two softwares which met all our requirements. Statistica and QI analyst. But statistica is really really bad interface for the operators.
    Thankyou all!

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    #152784

    NATZIC
    Participant

    You should take the time to look into Lighthouse Systems product Shopfloor-Online. It blows the others away!!

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