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Submit SS Training?

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  • #49013

    Fake Harry Alert
    Participant

    Have  already participated in  four  intensive quality and  Six Sigma  courses (awarded a  master  certificate from  Villanova U.)
    My  question :As  a  trained SS-BB can  I organize  training courses for WB/YB/GB and  even BB levels?
    If  yes ,then  is it  possible to  submit training certificates for  those  candidates after passing  a  certain Exam. and  performing a  certain assignment?
    Thanks and  all  best  wishes  for  2008 

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    #166659

    Brandon
    Participant

    Absolutely! You are free to do whatever you wish…there is no governmental agency, Process Improvement Association or foreign country that will arrest you for doing so. In fact, a bunch of people have done just as you are suggesting. Anybody can teach anything and certify to it.
    Good luck.

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    #166661

    Fake Harry Alert
    Participant

    Thank You for  your  prompt  response.
    Are  you  serious in  your reply as  I  need to  submit an immediate answer.
    What  about  the  training stuff,can I  collect the  training  material based  on  my  own practical  experience ,supported  by  many references (respecting  the  copyright)?
    All  best  regards
     

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    #166664

    Brandon
    Participant

    FHA, yes I’m serious. There is no organization that regulates LSS training or certification. You are totally free to do what you want in this arena. Create a name, market it and train. Take caution only around intellectual property rights – be sure your stuff is your stuff.
    There are some interesting rights around the use of opensourcesixsigma’s stuff. You may want to contact them about how to purchase & use their courses as a trainer.They have now created manuals for each of their courses. So, you can buy their PP slide courses to use as a trainer and your students can buy the manuals and you can teach a course – all legit. Check it out.

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    #166687

    Fake Harry Alert
    Participant

    Brandon
    That  is  really  great.
    Many  thanks  for  your  advice and  the  informative  reply.
    All  best  wishes  for  2008

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    #166693

    Fake Harry Alert
    Participant

    Brandon
    Appreciate  greatly  your  kind  informative  reply .
    I still wish  to  receive  answers  from QC,SS-Shooter,Mike  Carnel,
    Darth ,etc. just  for  further  enlightenment.
    Best  Regards 

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    #166695

    Six Sigma guy
    Member

    FHA- Hope you dont mind me answering ur question though it has been answered by brandon and u expecting from others.
    There is no govering body for Six Sigma or code of conduct or ethics as such for six sigma or registering body where you can go and register ur company. You can start your company provided it complies with all laws and regulations in the country you live in.
    The problem might come in wrt business. Who would go for your course when there are already so many people in the market. Have you established some credibility in this industry?If yes then go for it. Atleast you are expected to have some good networks. Also you need to create ur own training materials( though u can use some copyright protected materials with necessary approvals provided you dont infringe the same)
    Regards

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    #166707

    Fake Harry Alert
    Participant

    SS Guy
    Thank You
    I  like  your  answer as  it  would  encourage  me  to  proceed  forward.
    Best Wishes for  the  new  year

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    #166709

    CARELESS
    Participant

    Who  cares?

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    #166710

    Brandon
    Participant

    Yep, CARELESS, that’s kinda the state of world, isn’t it?

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    #166711

    SS Devil
    Member

    Brandon
    You  must  be  kidding:
    You  mean no  need  for  accreditaion for the  portfolio  of  those  courses:how to  convince  the  customers to  attend  such  courses,just  based  on  your  CV as a  trained BB or  what?
    Should  you  then  perform  several  tests for  the different  belts?
    Should  you  submit certification or  only training?
    What are  the  main  differences between  them?
    I’m  confused ,please  clarify
    Thanks

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    #166713

    qualitycolorado
    Participant

    FHA, Good morning!
    Regarding your questions: ” … My  question :As  a  trained SS-BB can  I organize  training courses for WB/YB/GB and  even BB levels?If  yes ,then  is it  possible to  submit training certificates for  those  candidates after passing  a  certain Exam. and  performing a  certain assignment? …”
    Brandon’s advice is correct:  there is nothing stopping you, or anyone else, from dong this.  Addtionally, his caution about intellectual property rights is worth noting.  And finally, please also note that the term “Six Sigma” is a registered trademark and service mark of Motorola.
     
    You owe it to yourself, and your potential training client, to ask yourself some tough, basic questions, such as “am I a good trainer”, “how do I know I am a good trainer”,  and “can I provide valuable training services to others”.
     
    Even though a BB is suppose to be able to train, too, I have run across many who are fairly good Six Sigma project managers but who cannot teach very well.
     
    Best regards,
    QualityColorado
     
     
     
     
     

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    #166714

    Brandon
    Participant

    SS Devil, my point is – there is no such thing as “accreditation”. Is there? By whom?
    Just like running a landscaping service – hang up a shingle and you’re in business.
    I’m not saying you’ll get any clients; I’m not saying you’ll be successful. But that is exactly how everybody started in this business – EVERYBODY!
    Not on a band wagon – just stating it again – the Six Sigma industry (if you want to call it that) has no certifying body, no accreditation.
    Get whatever clients you can, teach them whatever you want and print a certificate. They’re certified!!

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    #166715

    qualitycolorado
    Participant

    SS-Devil, Good morning!
    I just posted a reply agreeing with Brandon.  Almost anyone can set up shop and be a PROVIDER of training. That is what FHA wants to do, and there is really very little that would stop him/her from doing so.
     
    It does NOT necessarily mean, however, that they will be a GOOD provider of these traning services.
     
    From a viewpoint of someone who would be a CONSUMER of Six Sigma training., I agree with your viewpoint and would go much further.  I would want to see a LOT before paying good money for training. Anyone buying training needs to do thorough “due diligence” with any potential vendor for Six Sigma Green Belt and Black Belt courses:
     
    1.  Approach any vendor like you would approach a potential employee:  ask lots of questions about their own experiences with Six Sigma.  Ask the vendor how the company applies Six Sigma to its own operations (and, ask them WHY).  That will always inspire interesting responses. 
    A lot of companies will tell you how the have helped OTHERS, but dig  beyond that.  Ask how their own company has actually utilized Six Sigma to improve its own operations.  If they can’t tell you, skip on to the next training company.
     
    2.  Ask for references from prior attendees, and then call them!!  And, ask about the “success rate” of their graduates — ask them how they define success, too — these questions will tell you whether the company actually keeps in touch with people who have completed their course, and how they are applying the knowledge. Better companies will keep in touch  — this is good for the graduate, but is also good for the training company — after all, they may be able to make another sale, too!!.  If the company does NOT keep in touch and does not know the success rate of their graduates, skip on to another provider.
     
    3.  If you are looking for courses that also provide “certification” of one type or another:  Ask whether the class requires completion of one or more projects prior to getting “certified”.  Most courses do testing, but only some require a Project.  If they do NOT require a project, skip on to the next training company.
     
    4.  Ask them whether their company provides support from a BB or MBB AFTER the class, while you are trying to complete your BB or GB certification project.  If NOT, skip on to the next training company.
     
    If they DO provide that kind of support, dig in further: how is the support provided, how often, etc.  AND, ask about the credentials of the BB or MBB that would be helping you — when did they get certified, what projects have they completed, etc.
     
     
    Best regards,
    QualityColorado

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    #166717

    Aquinas
    Member

    I find this to be a most interesting topic, and one that any organization looking to deploy SS must examine.  As a BB, and especially as a mentoring or deployment leader, there’s much more to real business improvement and success than just setting up a curriculum, training and giving a certification exam.  It’s great if a GB understands “correlation does not equal causation”, but understanding the stats is only a part of the equation.
    Check out this month’s article in iSixSigma magazine about the soft skill sets needed to be an effective BB.  Leadership, communication, passion, …and the list goes on.  This is not something to be entered into lightly, and the quality of SS in all organizations reflects on all of us in some way.  Ultimately, however, at the end of the day….it either improved your business and your efforts were a success, or it did not, and people will blame Six Sigma instead of the deployment/training.
    Certifications are only as good as the quality of the business improved by them.
    Good Luck.

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    #166718

    Brandon
    Participant

    Couldn’t agree more Thomas. Does a disciplined, standardized approach to using data to make decisions help? Absolutely! Does 3.4 DPMO mean anything? No!
    SS represents a viable set of approaches and tools to accomplish a number of things. Just as does any other skill set.
    The rubber meets the road with the performance of employees – from the CEO through the lower paid levels; utilizing a whole bunch of disciplines. We can all thank Mikel for “creating” the illusion that SS solves all. Note: the reason for the “thank you” – we all made a pretty good living for a number of years off this concept.
    But the gig is essentially up – SS is a commodity now.

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    #166719

    SiggySig
    Member

    A commodity indeed – however, it’s still a pricey commodity near as I can tell.I also found the comment about asking training/consulting firms how they apply the methodology to their own operations. In my experience (staff BB in 2 different deployment launches), we have not always been the best models of using the principles in our own activities.

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    #166720

    Brandon
    Participant

    Ha… ha Siggy…our CEO, of a SS training firm, had so little faith in it he cancelled an in-progress YB training course in our own firm. He said “We don’t have time for this!”

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    #166721

    SiggySig
    Member

    Ugh – don’t even get me started on some of the idiocy I’ve seen from the “leadership” in the quality organizations I’ve been a part of, or on the part of the uber-pricey consultants I’ve worked with.Well, I’ll give you one – one of my LSS managers was a “Black Belt” – it’s in quotes because he did his BB training online with a simulation project. Never did a real, live project, and then wondered why it was taking so long for our green belts to complete their projects…fortunately for us all he left the field entirely.Disclaimer: I also did my training online (BMG) but had real projects and real MBBs mentoring me through. I’m not slamming online BB training per se.

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    #166723

    Aquinas
    Member

    and the truth shall set you free.  I did an online BB course while I had MBB’s mentoring me as well.  I basically paid $$$ for the same knoweledge I could have gotten from just reading the texts.  …then I had to answer to my MBB’s….whose responses were always, “prove it,”…”show me,”  or “go back and do it right this time.”  haha…  At any rate, I learned infinitely more from my mentors while doing real projects, and now focus on being the best mentor I can be…not the best statistician. 
    For me…the funniest part was watching managment pretend they knew what they were talking about during those three hour graph and slide presentations…..to which I would listen respectfully and then say…”prove it.”

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    #166724

    SiggySig
    Member

    Indeed – thankfully my company paid my BMG tuition!

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    #166726

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    FHA,
    Legally there is nothing to stop you from doing that.
    The next question is: “Can you do that ethically?” You are the only one that can answer that question. What can you live with?
    Just my opinion.
    Good luck

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    #166731

    Six Sigma guy
    Member

    Thanks FHA. I have some more points
    What about hiring some professionals from the market to handle ur classes and u pay them though it might be costly but might be a good advertisement and value addition :)
    If you provide placements to ur students then it might add value and more business( provided u have good network and contacts)
    Cheers
    Six Sigma guy

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    #166751

    Fake Harry Alertl
    Participant

    Mike
    I’m  really  so  glad  to  receive  all  your expert  opinions.
    Many  thanks
    Please  just  elaborate   a little  more regarding the  statement “Cn  you  do  that  ethically?”
    Appreciate  your  response 

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    #166752

    SS Devil
    Member

    QC
    Thanks  for  the  comprehensive  reply.

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    #166753

    Fake Harry Alert
    Participant

    Appreciate  your answer QC.
    Please clarify :Is  it necessary  to  take  permission  from Motorola (as  the  owner  of  the  registered trademark)?
    Why  the  caution about intellectual  property rights  is  worth  nothing?
    Basically  how  to  define  a  good  trainer (just  in  brief)? 
    Many  thanks for  your input  and  time,best  regards

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    #166754

    Fake Harry Alert
    Participant

    Thanks SSG
    Why  I  should  hire some  professionals  from  the market?
    What  do  you  mean  by “placements”?
    What  else you  may  advise?
    Best

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    #166758

    Brandon
    Participant

    Wait a minute…wait a minute. Having watched this whole string, FHA, I suggest you look for another outlet for your SS knowledge. I’m not going to list all the reasons but please take this as pretty knowledgable input –
    You do not want to start a SS training business.
    I’ll give you a few reasons – the market for classroom training is glutted and prices are falling through the floor. Additionally, it is not just about you training…it’s about building a business – sales, marketing, accounting, IT, HR, scheduling, travel, product development/enhancement, matl production & shipping, collections, cash flow…..
    Sorry to rain on your parade but there’s just a whole lot more to it than it appears you are ready to attempt.

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    #166761

    Fake Harry Alert
    Participant

    Brandon
    Thanks  for  the  great  advice.
    If  I  intend to  proceed with  this  kind  of  business then  I  should  cooperate  with  a  big relevant  consulting  company that  could  provide all  the requirements.
    I  will  not do  it  by  my  own  efforts.
    Cheers

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    #166763

    Brandon
    Participant

    I believe there may still be some viable opportunities to serve as a contract trainer for some of the big firms – see all those advertising on this site as a start.
    You get qualified on their matl, they sell training, and depending upon the scheduling requirements of other training resources available to them, you get scheduled and paid by the day – anywhere from $750 to $1200+ per day. Based on your performance, they will use you more or less depending upon their training demands.
    As an independent business person, you can seek opportunities to sell yourself as you run across opportunities, although some shops restrict that.
    This is likely a much better approach for you at the front end. You will gain a great deal of experience and see if the “road warrior” thing is for you – take note of Carnell’s posts – nearly every one of them mentions that he’s in an airport, a foriegn country or on his way back or whatever. Don’t know why its pertenent but he almost always mentions it. Such is the life of those who chose to be trainers.

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    #166764

    Taylor
    Participant

    I think I can elaborate, you would be doing your students a grave injustice without any “real world” experience to fall back on in your training.
    Trainers, in my opinion, should be people with years of experience in conducting projects and can answer any question that will come up in a classroom. Without real experience in actually conducting projects successfully, you wont make much of a trainer.
    This seems to be a common theme of late, some guy goes off to some highly respected school, gets some training and some “Certificate” which doesn’t mean squat in my opinion, and suddenly they are the GURU of all things Six Sigma. All I can say is Congrats on the course work, now go apply yourself for a couple years then come back and tell me what you really learned in that week long class..
    Just my 2 cents worth
     

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    #166769

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    Brandon,
    Carnell rarely does classroom training.
    Good luck

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    #166770

    Brandon
    Participant

    Sorry, didn’t mean to imply that – just trying to get FHA aware of the life required.

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    #166772

    Six Sigma Shooter
    Member

    Mike,
    You may not be a classroom trainer, but you are most definitely an educator.  Good to see you back on the forum. I may be down in Sugarland next week.  Are you in country? 
    Charles Hannabarger (Alias: Shooter)

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    #166797

    Mikel
    Member

    FHA, Scot, no I mean Brandon knows about this. Of course, so do you.

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    #166800

    Six Sigma guy
    Member

    Sorry FHA for my delayed response. Since others have responded not sure if my response would add any value. Nevertheless your query for my response has been answered by Chad and morever by your own self when u said ur going to partner with consulting companies.
    Simple reason why you should hire some professional is because who would come to you when already there are 1000’s of institutes offering six sigma courses? Maybe bcoz of cost they might come to you or because of ur network or because of the type of trainers u have- which is what i was talking about.
    Secondly when i referred to placements i meant job oppurtunities/better jobs for the people who take up ur training or tie with up some organizations where your trainees can do projects…
    Why dont establish your credentibility first( i dont know if u already have one) by teaching in some good training institutes and then with the market name u get out of that start a six sigma training institute. If you ask me whether they will hire you? i dont know
    Cheers

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    #166816

    Stevo
    Member

    No one every asks for my advice, but here is Stevo’s take:
     
    I don’t think you have to have tons of experience to be a good teacher; most of it is preparation and communication skills anyway.  I’m not saying that it can’t be helpful, but I’ve known a few very talented people who sucked as educators.
     
    My questions for you are:
     

    Is there a market for your service?
     

    Do you have the professional relationships already in place to take advantages of them?
     

    Do you truly understand the success and failure factors?
     

    Are you willing to give up you life for at least three years?
     

    Do you have the funds to live on until you start making money?
     
    Owning any business is harder than it looks, but if have a solid business plan and are ready to make the sacrifice, then I say go for it.
     
    It’s hard to win the game if you’re not in it.
     
    Stevo has spoken.

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    #166823

    Mikel
    Member

    Stevo,
    I need your advice.
    Since almost every bowl game this week has gone to the underdog (except for that high school team from Hawii), should I go for the inferior champion of the conference from the north instead of the champion of the best conference in the national championship game on Monday?

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    #166824

    Stevo
    Member

    Stan,
     
    I’m not a big LSU fan and the Buckeyes play better when they are underdogs.  So even though LSU has the home field advantage, Ohio State will win by 10.
     
    There is a good chance that several of the Tigers will do something stupid this weekend and will not be able to post bail (not hard to do in New Orleans, been there).
     
    Stevo
     
    Ps.  The way USC played, I believe they should be the national champions.  I still can’t get that fight song out of my head.
     

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    #166826

    Mikel
    Member

    You presented a compelling arguement, but I’ll have to go for the superior conference.
    Yea, USC beat the team that beat the champion of that inferior conference.
    Never lose sight that Ohio State did produce Maurice Clarret so I would think its OU that will be in police trouble. How can you be in favor of a team that has a nut for a mascot?
    I think that the OU initials are just bad luck, look whats happened to Oklahoma the past two years – lose to a high school team last year and hillbillies without a coach this year.
    Michigan did look good however.

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    #166830

    Brandon
    Participant

    LSU shouldn’t even be there – 2 losses and two wins at the end of the game purely by divine intervention.
    Superior conference? Pac 10 had half its conference in the top 20 at one point. If Dixon had stayed healthy Oregon would have sweeped everybody.

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    #166843

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    Shooter,
    Thank you. Life has gotten a little more hectic with the addition of the new business so time on the Forum is more difficult. I do miss it.
    We have great trainers and I am not one of them. Organizing a deployment and developing a strategy is more interesting for me at this time. Ananlyzing data is predictable and the software does it well. How a deployment works is never repetative and infrequently predictable.
    I will be in country next week. Let me know what your plans are.
    Regards

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    #166844

    Fake Harry Alert
    Participant

    Stevo
    New  perspectives
    Thank You

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    #166846

    Fake Harry Alert
    Participant

    Thank You  for  the  informative  reply,
    best regards

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    #166847

    Fake Harry Alert
    Participant

    Great Advice
    Thank You

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    #166848

    Deanb
    Participant

    Stan,Hey, if it had not been for the Pitt upset (when White got hurt and missed 95% of the game), those WV hillbillies would have played for the championship. Injuries are big variables. The Okies had many sidelined, and WV was healthy. I’d pay attention to the injury data before laying a spot on the Ohio game.

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    #166849

    Deanb
    Participant

    Mike,Just read your article in the January-08 issue of Quality Progress. Very relevant. Well done!

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    #166850

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    Deanb,
    Thank you. I appreciate the encouragement.
    Regards

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    #166851

    Savage
    Participant

    “How can you be in favor of a team that has a nut for a mascot?”
    Stan, what are you envious because the mascot represents something you don’t have? Is just that you wish you had one … or two of ’em?

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    #166854

    BC
    Participant

    I would be happy to send a real buckey to Stan.  Either a nut (next fall) or a sapling (in the spring).
    They are nuts for sure, but poisonous ones.  They could probably kill any tiger that messes with one.
    Happy weekend!

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    #166856

    Taylor
    Participant

    Despite all the BCS non sense, which makes about as much since as the 1.5 sigma shift, (Which I think is in the BCS calculation), the SEC is the superior Conference for College Sports, More Championships in all sports than any other conference.
    Here is a snapshot at the last few years
    Since 1999 the SEC has had 13 teams in the “Big Ones” (Feista, Sugar, Orange, Rose Bowl) Big 12 had 12, Pac 10 had 11, Big 10 had 6 which Ohio State made up 3 of those.  Championship Wins SEC-3, Big 12-2, PAC 10-1, Big 10-2, Both Ohio State, and one of those was a fluke 2OT win over Miami (2003)
    LSU 31  OSU 20 Thats my prediction
     

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    #166859

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    FHA,
    Sorry for the delayed response but I got myself side tracked.
    Ethically – morally, fairly, justly or decently (definition from Word) – what are you going to tell people you are going to do? Are you going to tell them you will teach them the Six Sigma tools as you understand them? You can do that.
    Can you tell them you are going to teach them Six Sigma? You probably can’t do that ethically (even if you take the other guys advice and teach in an institute and then sell from your reputation you can’t do that) because you don’t know that.
    Can you tell them you will teach them to deploy Six Sigma? You can’t do that ethically either. You may have read about what someone else experienced but you have no experience at it. You can do it ethically if you tell them you have never done it and you will give it your best shot. there is probably a better market for that approach than saying you can when you have not.
    Someone brought up the issue of having enough money to do it. That is an issue as well. You get paid after the work is done and frequentlyit is net 30 which runs you AR’s out to about 65 days. That means you need to have enough cash to cover your expenses for a couple months and hope you have a customer that pays on time.
    If you are married you need to set aside enough to cover the cost of your divorce if you do this long enough. You need some legal advice to cover the contracts and you need an accountant to handle a lot of the invoicing because it can be time consuming and assuming you are billing at the going rate it makes more sense – they will also have to pay your bills since your will rarely be home long enough to get them paid on time.
    FYI – if you intend to fly get three suit cases. That gives you one to use while the airlines repair the ones (typically 2 in that cycle at any one time) they break.
    Just my opinion.
    Good luck

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    #166862

    Brandon
    Participant

    Matt, since you seem to know a lot about this let me ask you…
    Is it strange when one of your nuts is larger than….
     
     
    The other two?

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    #166881

    Mikel
    Member

    Matt honey,That’s a pretty stupid statement. You don’t know me, but I’d take the bet from you or Scot (Brandon) on
    who has a track record of doing the bravest things in the work place.

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    #166883

    Fake Harry Alert
    Participant

    I  started a  serious  question,ending by  those  silly remarks..

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    #166886

    Kambhampati
    Participant

    Of course you can  !!
    There’s so much silliness with six sigma, so one will ever know.

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    #166895

    Fake Harry Alert
    Participant

    Praveen
    You  are  ridiculing the  issue,I’m  really  serious (not  located  in US or the EU).Please  elaborate  more.Waiting  for  your  serious (VA) advice.
    Best Regards

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    #166911

    Brandon
    Participant

    FHA, you won’t get a serious response from whoever is posting as Praveen. I doubt it is him – somebody making him look bad is my guess.

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    #166912

    Fake Harry Alert
    Participant

    Mike
    Thank You  for  the great  advice  and  the  enlightenment.
    Best Regards

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    #166952

    Stevo
    Member

    Stan,
    Add predicting games as “one of those things I suck at”.
    Stevo

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