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Tell me about that 6 Sigma

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  • #26925

    Wazza
    Member

    I’ve been struggling with a 1 minute definition on 6 Sigma – the so called “elevator” speech. I’ve had a few times when people have come to me and I’ve been struggling to say the ‘punchiest’ thing in the shortest time possible. Can you help??

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    #65478

    BC
    Participant

    HERE IS SOMETHING YOU MAY FIND INTERESTING…

    Quick…in 100 words or less, define Six Sigma – What can it do? If you can’t, you’re not alone. Many managers would be hard pressed to explain, precisely and concisely, what this evolving business trend means. What they probably do know is that Six Sigma has been billed as a critical business tool for the 21st-century. They know it’s the subject of a recent torrent of books, magazine articles, conferences, World Wide Web sites and even an emerging executive position (Six Sigma Deployment Officer). They know that leading companies such as Motorola, General Electric, and AlliedSignal (now Honeywell International), launched major Six Sigma initiatives. And they know it’s something they just have to get too. Here is a management exercise given to my training class – “Think of defining Six Sigma (using 100 words or less) as if you were in an elevator moving from the seventh floor. On the Sixth floor – Going to the first floor and your Chairman steps on and seeing you – asks, “What is this Six Sigma Initiative? Exactly what will it do for us?” In class we had ½ hour to review in our minds – what we were going to present to the others…

    #1:
    · Our Business is changing fast. We must keep up to assure survival. To accomplish this we will be using this initiative called Six Sigma to gain improvements. Our CEO personally endorses this change initiative and I will serve as the local champion for the top-down deployment of this tool. We will be focusing on our most important business issues.
    · Several respected firms have profitably employed six Sigma: Motorola, General Electric, Nokia, etc. We will use the Six Sigma methodology structure to analyze our business issues. Define the problem in objective terms. Measure the process output performance. Analyze the problem to identify causes of variation. Improve output of processes by shifting performance to the target and reducing variation. Control the process performance to assure predictable results.
    · To be successful, will require that all employees be involved by participating on teams, supporting data collection and analysis, and implementing change. This improvement program will affect everyone in all processes — not just production, but all business processes as well. We will start soon by training specialists who will facilitate improvement projects in small teams and work with business areas to assure profits.

    #2
    · The need to know data to ask

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    #65479

    BC
    Participant

    HERE IS SOMETHING YOU MAY FIND INTERESTING…

    Quick…in 100 words or less, define Six Sigma – What can it do? If you can’t, you’re not alone. Many managers would be hard pressed to explain, precisely and concisely, what this evolving business trend means. What they probably do know is that Six Sigma has been billed as a critical business tool for the 21st-century. They know it’s the subject of a recent torrent of books, magazine articles, conferences, World Wide Web sites and even an emerging executive position (Six Sigma Deployment Officer). They know that leading companies such as Motorola, General Electric, and AlliedSignal (now Honeywell International), launched major Six Sigma initiatives. And they know it’s something they just have to get too. Here is a management exercise given to my training class – “Think of defining Six Sigma (using 100 words or less) as if you were in an elevator moving from the seventh floor. On the Sixth floor – Going to the first floor and your Chairman steps on and seeing you – asks, “What is this Six Sigma Initiative? Exactly what will it do for us?” In class we had ½ hour to review in our minds – what we were going to present to the others…

    #1:
    · Our Business is changing fast. We must keep up to assure survival. To accomplish this we will be using this initiative called Six Sigma to gain improvements. Our CEO personally endorses this change initiative and I will serve as the local champion for the top-down deployment of this tool. We will be focusing on our most important business issues.
    · Several respected firms have profitably employed six Sigma: Motorola, General Electric, Nokia, etc. We will use the Six Sigma methodology structure to analyze our business issues. Define the problem in objective terms. Measure the process output performance. Analyze the problem to identify causes of variation. Improve output of processes by shifting performance to the target and reducing variation. Control the process performance to assure predictable results.
    · To be successful, will require that all employees be involved by participating on teams, supporting data collection and analysis, and implementing change. This improvement program will affect everyone in all processes — not just production, but all business processes as well. We will start soon by training specialists who will facilitate improvement projects in small teams and work with business areas to assure profits.

    #2
    · The need to know data to ask

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    #65480

    BC
    Participant

    #2
    · The need to know data to ask the right questions.
    · To understand our customer’s needs.
    · Failure mode analysis determines the root cause.
    · Empowerment of the whole team to address defects.
    · Visual manufacturing: design of better charts.
    · Cause and effects.
    · Develop training for employee awareness.
    · Make management an integral part of quality.
    Team #3
    · Six Sigma is a method that uses a basic six-step program to affect positive change in our processes: Recognize – Define – Measure – Analyze – Improve – and Control.
    · Six Sigma places values on customer and shareholder requirements, then follows-on to set “reduced defects” in our processes as a driving goal.
    · When done correctly, Six Sigma will permeate our entire enterprise (top down and bottom up).
    The ultimate application of Six Sigma is when we start using Designs for Six Sigma to improve our processes so we can deliver our products defect free – using the voice of the customer as our guide – Producing our products at a higher margins and lower overall cost.

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    #65481

    BC
    Participant

    #3
    · Six Sigma is a method that uses a basic six-step program to affect positive change in our processes: Recognize – Define – Measure – Analyze – Improve – and Control.
    · Six Sigma places values on customer and shareholder requirements, then follows-on to set “reduced defects” in our processes as a driving goal.
    · When done correctly, Six Sigma will permeate our entire enterprise (top down and bottom up).
    The ultimate application of Six Sigma is when we start using Designs for Six Sigma to improve our processes so we can deliver our products defect free – using the voice of the customer as our guide – Producing our products at a higher margins and lower overall cost.

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    #65483

    Alex Tomlin
    Participant

    Hi BC,

    I think those posts are terrific. They really help with information so people can put together their own ‘personalized’ elevator speech — something that everyone should have up their sleeves!

    Thanks again for the posts.

    Cheers,
    Alex Tomlin

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    #65525

    Jim Parnella
    Participant

    Here is my 30-second “elevator speech”:

    Six Sigma is a disciplined, data-driven approach to process improvement aimed at the near-elimination of defects from every product, process, and transaction. The purpose of Six Sigma is to gain breakthrough knowledge on how to improve processes to do things BETTER, FASTER, and at LOWER COST. It can be used to improve every facet of business, from production, to human resources, to order entry, to technical support. Six Sigma can be used for any activity that is concerned with cost, timeliness, and quality of results. Unlike previous quality improvement efforts, Six Sigma is designed to provide tangible business results, cost savings that are directly traceable to the bottom line.

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    #65526

    Sinnicks
    Participant

    Hi Jim,

    Nicely put!

    Mark

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    #65534

    Anonymous
    Participant

    Mi contribution :
    Six Sigma is a business system for achieving and sustaining sucess thought customer focus, process management and improvement, and the wise use of facts and data.

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    #65694

    Zeeshan
    Member

    Six Sigma is nothing but simplification of product and processes which aims to take the defects to zero level.

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    #65698

    melvin
    Participant

    Nice speech.

    I would add:
    That to be successful you must:
    FOCUS on the CUSTOMER
    Eliminate variation
    Gain a better understanding of your process(es) Y=f(x)
    Act on Fact
    AND — HAVE TOTAL LEADERSHIP BUYIN

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    #65743

    Faulhaber
    Participant

    Perfect. Exactly to the point.
    P-S. If talking to CEOs pls add some facts about bottom line results …

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    #66319

    Anonymous
    Participant

    I would continue your statement by adding” “thereby reducing costs and exponentially increasing customer satisfaction and profitabilty”

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    #66448

    Payne
    Participant

    Six Sigma is a tool to provide X by Y

    simple as that!

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    #67122

    P .S JAWADEKAR
    Participant

    LET US BE VERY CLEAR THAT 6SIGMA IS NOT A NEW FINDING.IT WAS THERE SINCE THE INCEPTION OF THE USE OF STATISTICAL CONTROL METHODS IN THE INDUSTRY,FROM SAY,60’S.SIX SIGMA IS A MEASURE OF THE NON CONFORMANCE OF A PROCESS,THAT IS APPROX ZERO DEFECT PROCESS,BE IT A MANUFACTURING PROCESS OR A NON MANUFACTURING PROCESS LIKE MAKING SALES INVOICES. EVERY CO WORKS FOR REDUCING NON CONFORMANCES TO REDUCE COST BY ADOPTING VARIOUS METHODS. MOST POWERFUL AMONGST,IS A. STATISTICAL METHOD TO WORK FOR REDUCING VARIABILITY OF NON CONFORMANCE OF A PROCESS ,TILL SUCH TIME PROCESS BECOMES NONCONFORMANCE FREE OR DEFECT FREE .SUCH A MEASURE OF A APROCESS IS CALLED 6 SIGMA.WHEN YOU REACH SUCH A LEVEL OF CAPABILITY OF PROCESS (6 SIGMA- DEFECT FREE)WASTES IN DOLLARS OR COST OF QUALITY IS THE LOWEST,REFLECTED IN THE PROFITS OF THE CO.

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    #67509

    iman
    Participant

    Hi
    I need some information about six sigma to complete my course in knt university of tech .

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    #67527

    Isabel
    Participant

    Tell me please, about that 6 Sigma.

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    #67660

    Donaldo L. Organo
    Participant

    Hi, good afternoon
    Can you help me understand more about six sigma what is the equivalent measure of impurity in term of Defect per million (PPM) of the six sigma and what is it equivalent process capability, i also want to know the equevalent (PPM) of 1 sigma, 2 sigma 3 sigma 4 sigma 5 sigma and six sigma and its equivalent process capability
    Can you give some example of the application of six sigma, how can i apply six sigma
    Your response to this question will be highly appricieted
    regards
    DL. Organo
    QA PKI
     

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    #67873

    MAHABALE SHWAR
    Participant

    send WHAT IS IMPORTANCE OF 6 SIGMA

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    #67874

    denton
    Participant

    Six Sigma is a customer centered, systematic, data driven method for doing things better.
    Customer centered means that projects start with, and are measured by, meeting customer wants and needs.
    Systematic means that the Six Sigma tools are applied in concert, which makes them vastly more powerful than they are alone.
    Data driven means that facts and data are used for making decisions.
    Doing things better means, in some measurable, meaningful way, improving the situation of customers, workers, or shareholders of the organization.
    Denton Bramwell
    Sr. Master Black Belt
    [email protected]
     

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    #67878

    isoquality.com
    Participant

    Without consider what the customers’ need is nothing regardless is a six sigma or process simplfication or whatever quality jargons.Regards,

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    #68894

    Anonymous
    Participant

    I’m sorry, I don’t understand what your message is saying.

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    #70323

    btang
    Participant

    How to calculate the relation between sigma level and defective rate? 

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    #70324

    Pradeep Nair
    Participant

    Six Sigma is a data driven approach or a statistical approach for analysing the root causes of a business problem(whether it is in production, marketing, sales, design etc)and solving it, so that the operational efficiency of a business is improved ,thus increasing the profits.The keyword for six Sigma is “Outside In” ie, the understanding of the output or the Customer Requirements and Specifications must be the first step while implementing six Sigma.It differs from the traditional Quality conepts in the Six Sigma is not only for the sake of Quality, but for improving business with decrease in cost Input.The two methods that are followed to achieve Six Sigma are DMADV(When a new product is developed)and DMAIC(When an existing process or product is to be Improved)

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    #70335

    Jim Johnson
    Participant

    Here goes:Six Sigma is a management methodology that combines a number of the tools and techniques we have always used in “quality initiatives”. Unlike those other attempts, this very disciplined, data-driven approach requires that we follow a road-map in which we define defects, measure processes, analyze their capability and improve our processes from the shop floor to the back office. Once we have achieved as few defects as possible, we place appropriate control tools in place to continually monitor the improved process and ensure that savings we have realized continue or increase. The success that other companies have enjoyed using the methodology lies in the ability to tie project results directly to bottom line savings and/or improved consumer satisfaction.

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    #70453

    arnab das
    Participant

    hello,
        i am a student of industrial engg. and i want to do a case syudy on 6 sigma. so can you please tell me about this in full detail.

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    #70454

    muhannad al nabulsi
    Participant

    Yes ,hereunder  a very brief definition:It represents a goal of products & process that exprience only 3.4 defects per million,or are 99.99966 percent good.
    It is less than one minute definition,I hope it would satisfy your request,regards                                     MN

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    #70485

    William M Mach
    Member

    Six sigma uses statistical analysis to graphically present data so even managers can make intelligent decisions.

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    #72034

    d
    Participant

    What would be the ‘elevator speech’ equivalent when adressing ‘little x and big x and little y’s and big y’s’?

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    #72478

    gururaj
    Participant

    hi mbs r u the same guy working at amasl if so mail me back by guru

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    #72726

    venkatesh
    Member

    please send me more details about 6 sigma.

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    #74094

    Holly Duckworth
    Participant

    Six sigma is a problem solving method for continuous improvement.  This method focuses on the statistical analysis of data for making decisions for change.  As a problem solving methodology it can be applied to almost any situation.

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    #77417

    John Lindsay
    Participant

    Are you the same Jim Johnson that was hired to get O’Hara Metal Products in Brisbane, Ca. ISO 9000 certified?

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    #77418

    John Lindsay
    Participant

    What was the outcome of that?

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    #77420

    Keshri
    Participant

    Six Sigma means to be
    Customer Focus , Data Driven through a Robust methodology in place: DMAIC

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    #77422

    J Clark
    Participant

    We call it “A systematic,scientific, fact based ,data driven, Improvement system”

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    #77440

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    Norbert,
    The addition of bottom line results is important but I don’t believe it should be restricted to just CEO’s. There are way to many projects that are out there chasing the wrong end of the Pareto or being treated as academic exercise. If the concept of delivering bottom line results isn’t delivered at every level the program will atrophy into another piece of COPQ.
    Just my opinion.

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    #77443

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    P.S.,
    I am not sure what that was. The original question had to do with an elevator speech. I am not sure if that is what you entered or not. If it is you might try printing it out and then print out a couple of the ones that seemed to get a more positive response (Parnella -spelling sorry & Annonymous). You might find there is a dramatic difference.
    You are trying to convey the impotance and contribution of the program.

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    #78241

    Md Towhidul Hussain
    Participant

    Tell Me About That 6 Sigma
    Info On Six Sigma

    Process Sigma CalculationCost Of Quality In It

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    #78515

    Tom Whalen
    Member

    If it takes you three posts to explain it to us, that manager has either
    1) already stepped off the elevator, or
    2) fallen asleep

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    #79498

    KBS
    Participant

    Why it is called six sigma. Why 6 ?. Is there any special thing about this number ?

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    #79744

    6Sigskeptic
    Participant

    I’ve been on this site for 5 minutes reading what Six Sigma is, because someone at a conference I went to last week asked me if I was familiar with it (at which time I answered honestly, No).  As are most new techniques in business, Six Sigma is actually an old technique repackaged with a new name.
    It’s simply business process improvement using a technique involving statistical analysis and performance measurement.  Just like process reengineering, Six Sigma can cut organizational costs and improve productivity by eliminating and/or revising flawed steps in processes.
    This speech would probably only get me to the third floor on an elevator, but I could say a lot more about methodologies, scorecards, dashboards, process flow, GE and the use of calculus to make Six Sigma sound even more official and important on the way up to the penthouse.
    Why are corporate decision-makers so gullible when it comes to new business techniques?

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    #79747

    RT
    Member

    Six Sigma has less fluff and more stuff.  I can spend all day repeating to you the things you read on this site and you can tell me that it’s already been done(all the stuff).  You are absolutely right.  The difference is putting all the meaningful stuff in a package and making it available to the whole business by making it an institution.  I hate to throw out neat corporate level phrases like “it’s the way we work” but if you can get 60 – 80% of your workforce actually using it then it really does become effective.  If you just try a few unorganized steps of the MAIC process it will surely fail.
    I am speaking from experience because I also believed it was the next flavor of the month program.  But it didn’t go away after a few years, it got bigger.  And it really does show great results for ROI, project/program success etc.  Initally it is a painful process to start in a business but if the organization is determined to make it work, it will work.  

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    #79755

    fernando
    Participant

    6Sigmaskeptic,
    Saying something like what you said (“Six Sigma is actually an old technique repackaged with a new name”) is like saying things like:

    Stephen Covey just helps people get organized, or
    Peter Drucker is a management consultant
    You are simply over-simplifying what Six Sigma is and can be to companies. The only way to truly appreciate it is to take a full BB wave class and complete a full DMAIC project. I hope you have the opportunity some day.
    Fernando

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    #79757

    Sambuddha
    Member

    6Sigskeptic:
    That was a valid characterization resulting from a 5 minute read. I would even say, not just in business but in science too, new ideas relating to the same subject come and replace the old one. Think of mechanics and ask the questions – Was Copernicus wrong? Was Newton wrong? Will Einstein be proved wrong oneday?
    It is the same way with any knowledge development process. Six Sigma has drawn good elements from many past quality programs, yet it has certain characteristics that makes it more effective – more than just a body of knowledge to a philisophy that could be made to work across organizations and industries.
    I believe that the quality community has actually done a VA-NVA (value analysis) on the existing programs and Six Sigma evolved as a result. In fact IMHO, there are a few things that makes Six Sigma very effective/special:
    1. Range of applicability (Design, manufacturing, Transactional etc.)
    2. Structured and Disciplined problem solving (DMAIC< DMADV)
    3. Linking improvement activities to the bottomline (ROI)
    I am a critic of decision making processes in the corporate world. Yet, I would go to the extent of saying that some of your “gullible” business leaders have turned around their organizations by focusing on the content and not on the cosmetics. Some, who could not sustain the Six Sigma change process beyond the state of “flavor of the month” look gullible (in hindsight) and failed, not because there is something wrong with Six Sigma or Lean or reengineering, but because they failed to be the change they wanted to bring about.
    Good luck.
    Best,
    Sambuddha

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    #79758

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    SSSkeptic,
    I think Sam was extremely kind. It is unbelievably arrogant to think you can spend 5 minutes on a website and comprehend what is going on.
    It is even more arrogant to pass judgement on execs who have made deteminations based on ROI calculations to participate. Most of them spent more than 5 minutes making the decision which may be why you are not in a position to make such a decision.

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    #80047

    john beaudoin
    Participant

    Yes, there is something special.  If you track your performance outputs on a histogram, and place on it Customer Specification limits, your process will hopefully be in specifications most of the time, but will also have values outside the specification limits (think of a normal distibution curve with a mean value at the peak and a value on the x axis that is a specification limit.)  At one standard deviation from the mean, you will have 68.27% of the area under the curve covered.  At 2 Standard Deviations, you have 95.45% of the area under the curve, at 3 Standard Deviations, you will have 99.73% of the area and so forth until you get to 6 standard deviations, when you have 99.99985% of the area (1.5 Defects per million).  Since there is some variation in measuring, a 1.5 Sigma shift is figured in which gives you 3.4 Defects per million or 99.99966%.
    The reason this number is used is because it has been determined for most processes that this quality level is achieved most economically, and that the benefits to better than 6-Sigma may not outweight the costs to get there.  Conversely, if you are at 5-Sigma, there are still economic benefits to get to 6-Sigma.  This is a general rule as there are exceptions.  In the jet engine manufacturing business, many processes need and achieve 12 sigma, which is very closs to zero defects per million.  Economics and liabillity help to drive this type of quality.  Most companies that do not use statistical tools for process control are in the 3 sigma range.

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    #80049

    john beaudoin
    Participant

    To answer your questions, it is the job of corporate leaders to stay up on business techniques that have been successful in improving other companies.  These guys go to bed at night worrying about daily swings in stock price, financial report ratios, and wondering what the competition is up to.  Because these are their worries, when they read articles in various publications and hear things from their connections, they go out and immediately start finding books and information about the techniques and processes.
    Can you define this process model for executives as gullible?  I don’t think so.  The fact is that the problem solving model compiled under the 6-Sigma umbrella does work.  Yes, the tools have been around for awhile and were used successfully by many companies under the TQM heading in the 80’s, however, 6-Sigma has built a few improvements onto the TQM package and has thus received a name change like updated software.  The fact is that the tools in 6-Sigma work for reducing variation in processes and that if the tools are not understood and not used, you can at best get to a 3-4 Sigma level after years of incremental improvements with a loss in efficiency with each change.  In the transactional world,  a lot of duplicating processses are developed to solve some problem that occurred once a couple of years ago and a lot of these processes hang on with the battle cry “This is how we have always done it”.
    If anything, 6-Sigma training and tools will help you re-evaluate what you are doing and either prove that your business can be improved with big savings or it will confirm that you are already using best practices in all of your processes.  If you look at the probability of these 2 outcomes, I will always put my money that there is waste in anyones process that can be removed.

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    #80052

    Mikel
    Member

    You say – “The reason this number is used is because it has been determined for most processes that this quality level is achieved most economically, and that the benefits to better than 6-Sigma may not outweight the costs to get there.”  ??????
    You have been reading too much of the rhetoric about 6 sigma. No one has this data. Very few have achieved a 6 sigma process, much less a 6 sigma enterprize, so discussion of economic benefit beyond here is strictly theory. Very simply, given the assumptions of 1.5 sigma shift, 6 sigma appeared to be where very good competitors were headed (note it is headed, not what they had achieved).
    The nonsense of 12 sigma needed in jet engines is just that as well. It makes a good story (told over and over on this forum) but the truth is there are no mathematics or financial theory behind it. Tells me the guys at GE do not know how to set specs and spend their time beating their chests instead.
    The name six sigma is strictly an observation of where the most competent of competitors in electronics appeared to be headed in 1985-86. Most of these competitors have yet to achieve 6 sigma as an enterprize although they continue to improve daily (most also do not practice or call it 6 sigma including most at Motorola right now). Their customers expectations continue to evolve, except apparently in the case of GE’s jet engine business.

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    #80062

    RT
    Member

    Stan:Sounds like you’re very excited about GE.  A process can infact achive better than 6 Sigma.  Eliminate the defects and see what happens.  It all depends on what your measuring and against what specs.  I’ve had a few projects that went over 6 sigma if that term means anything to anyone.  To have a corporation or “enterprise” achive 6 sigma is probably not going to happen in my lifetime.  But an enterprise can be a 6 sigma organization using the methodology.12 sigma needed in aircraft engines?  I don’t know about that for sure but you know as well as I that defects in the aviation industry are devestating.  As far as setting specs to meet some sigma level well there are slackers and crooks in every business but that doesn’t mean that everyone is doing it.  I know some outstanding engineers at GEAE and they take this stuff seriously.   

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    #80066

    Mikel
    Member

    Wow, they take it seriously – that must mean the 12 sigma is real. Excuse my ignorance and thank for letting me know that 6 sigma can be exceeded. I did not know that.
    Now back to the real world. 6 sigma is not a known limit to how good processes should be. Anybody who believes there is data behind the 6 sigma number does not understand.

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    #80067

    RT
    Member

    Maybe it’s a conspiracy.  Is it possible that Six Sigma is just a term used by mangement because they can’t spell TQM. 
    That’s does it I’m burning my Black Belt.  All his time I thought there was a way to equate DPMO’s to a Sigma level.
    I think I’ll go look for a nice paper route job.

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    #80071

    john beaudoin
    Participant

    Man! What side of the bed to you get up off of this morning?  For your information, Motorola was the one that determined 6-Sigma was cost effective to achieve back in the days when they produced millions of pagers.  The also achieved 6-Sigma quality in their pagers.
    I’m an aerospace engineer, what do you know about jet engines and product liability when one fails?  Think about how much the old lady that spilled coffee on herself at the McDonnald’s drive through and then imagine what several passenger family members could do if an engine failed due to a manufacturing flaw.  I also have a friend who is a Master Blackbelt at GE and can vouch for the sigma level in their aircraft engine division (Remember they are producing these in the 100’s each year, not millions).
    Next, each company can call their statistical improvement process anything they want.  The company I work for invented their own name as well and Logo (Sony Six Sigma), which now have their own trainers and training material to avoid the high costs of consultant material and trainers.  The fact is that the tools are still there and are still used by everyone.  The other fact is that if you are less than 6-Sigma, you are going to strive to get to 6-Sigma.  If you are at 6-Sigma, you may or may not strive to be better than that.  Note that your sigma level can change instantly if your customer expectations change, so no ones work is ever done with regards to meeting customer Critical to Quality factors.
    Last, I’m honestly answering a guy’s question as to why 6-Sigma was chosen.  I don’t think your response addresses the original question posed here.

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    #80072

    Jackie
    Participant

    Stan,
    Thank you for another TRULY enlightening post.
    I wonder what it is like to “understand” like you obviously do!? Surely not something that us mere mortals need bother ourselves with.

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    #80076

    billybob
    Participant

    Hello folks,
    The original posting was made in Sept 2000, this post has been warmed up more than any old baked potato we ever had!  I’m going to put the wheels back under the house and move it to a new neighborhood
     
    Later, Billybob

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    #80082

    Mikel
    Member

    Jackie,
    I am glad you liked it. It always good to hear you point of view.

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    #80083

    Mikel
    Member

    John,
    It may be honest but it is definitely misinformed, which was my only point. No one has the financial data to say six sigma is an end point. What I said earlier is exactly where six sigma came from. It appeared (and still does) to be where the best companies were going.
    As far as the 12 sigma thing, if it is true, that means that GE will make no defects internally for several years given that they only make hundreds per year. I do not believe that to be the case. And I don’t even have to be an aerospace engineer or even a rocket scientist to figure that out.
    Don’t get your nose bent out of joint because I question some of the stories you are perpetuating. There is simply no data behind them.

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    #80085

    Ward Isom
    Member

    John,
    Not to get off track here, but you say that GE has achieved 6 Sigma, and I believe that to be what has been published, but my question is how is GE defining an error?  The reason I ask is; if they were so good at their processes why don’t we have the production engines for the 777-300ER yet?

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    #80086

    Swaggerty
    Participant

    Here’s my take, or is that fake?
    in 1920’s shewart came up with the concept of SPC,  after WWII Deming moved into Japan and TQM evolved from there.  Our American cousins felt that TQM was a bit wooly for their liking, so in the mid 1980’s came up with 6s, which was more structured in it’s approach?  I know I’m probably going to get pelters here but above are the facts.
    So, if TQM is to wooly for americans, wher is this idea of a 1.5 sigma shift coming from?  Where is the data to suggest that any process can shift on average 1.5 sigma…why not 2 sigma or 1.05 sigma?  I have asked this question to MBB’s and consultants but never recieved a satisfactory answer…only wooly ones. 
    After being in the game for 4 years, I first thought Stan was a bit of a joker, but can now see that he is only challenging the normal thought process of brainwashed employees, and, even more important the consultants that have a vested interest in promoting the wooly mumbo jumbo.
    With 4 years hard project work behind me and an MBA, I’m sure I could go into any compant (as a consultant) and actually work a project that showed hard savings.  I may not spout the wooly verbage that might be expected of a consultant, but could show the power of team working to any project…only delivering bottom line results and customer satisfaction.
    I guess that’s why I’ll never make it as a consultant!
     

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    #80087

    billybob
    Participant

    Hello,
    I would guess that GE may take the mean of their 6S results by operating unit.  Some products would be over 6S and others below.  But, hey you know how statistically you can do anything with numbers to give you what you want to report. It all depends on what data you measure.
    Is that better Mr Mike?
    Later,
    Billybob

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    #80089

    john beaudoin
    Participant

    Are you certified in 6-Sigma?  Your answers indicate that you are a little mis-informed in applying the tools.  With the jet engine thing, even though 100’s are produced each engine has thousands of opportunities for defects.  The entire process with all of the opportunities is running at a 12 sigma level for jet engine manufacture.  We make televisions and I have data and references to show that even a TV has 1000’s of opportunities for defects and there are probably a lot more parts in a jet engine.
    As to why 6-Sigma – Someone noticed at this level you would have 1.5 defects per million.  Not many people manufacture billions of anything, so 1.5 would be a pretty good number.  Anything else would be close to zero.  In this process, Motorola’s research found that it was very unusual for a population mean to shift by more than 1.5 sigma.  If a process is designed to produce very consistent results and perform at 6-Sigma quality levels under normal conditions, the process is virtually defect free when the mean is on target.  If the process were to shift by 1.5 sigma, only 3.4 defects per million opportunities for error would exist. From Book “Customer Centered Six Sigma” by Naumann and Hoisington.  This was Motorola’s research and the 6 sigma goal was determined by them.  Period.
    I agree with you in that there may be no data to show for everyone what sigma level they need to be at as it would probably vary by company anyway.  12 sigma may make sense for surgical tools and jet engines and 5 sigma may make sense for somone repairing furnaces.  It is going to depend on the Failure Mode Effect Outcome and the number of opportunities for defects in a year.

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    #80090

    john beaudoin
    Participant

    I was told the 12 sigma was for a military engine for fighter aircraft.

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    #80092

    billybob
    Participant

    Hello,
    I don’t believe anything I’m told anymore….show me the data!
    Later,
    Billybob

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    #80100

    Gabriel
    Participant

    Just an opinion about Aviation.
    For sure, special care is taken when manufacturing components for aviation. Specially, a lot of 100% checks are performed on critical components, to sort out deffects (if the process makes deffects, and they are sorted out before they reach the customer, would you call it 6 sigma?).
    Yet, a lot of controls are performed once the component are on service, to avoid a failure. Preventive controls for early warning of a future failure (preventive maintenance), to scrap a part well before a failure is probable even without prior inspection (predictive maintenance), condition monitoring, etc.
    Yet, a lot of failures are out there, and therefore a lot of corrective maintenance is necessary too.
    Probably the “sigma level” in aviation industry is high, but not as high as to rely in quality to assure the outstanding sigma needed to keep crashes in the pressent level. I mean, things fail, but planes do not fall down (mostly).
    The key here is clearly redundancy. An airplane with four engins can complete the take-off with only three, climb with only two and fly and land with only one. You have many hydraulic systems which back-up each other, and many electrical systems which back-up each other and back-up the hydraulics too. And so on with auto-pilots, instruments, probes, radios, computers, tires, brakes, structure, and even pilots.
    I think that Aviation is the paradigmatic case where a lot of things fail, but the failures are contained (from the designt to the manufacturing and to the operations) to avoid that they reach to the customer (the passanger). Of course, it is very expensive to do this. Would you call this six sigma quality? I think that if it was 12 sigma (with prevention more than correction, avoiding failures more than detecting them, with highly capable processes BEFORE the 100% inspection) we all be paying much less for our tickets.

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    #80105

    Christan Zantboer
    Participant

    The tools used with Six Sigma are indeed not new. However, the set-up of the steps, the process to follow, the rigour in the approach is other then whatever I’ve seen before. Also, having an entire organisation talking te same languge is also very beneficial. I’ve seen it work.

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    #80106

    Mikel
    Member

    John,
    Yes I am certified. And yes you are talking off of the top of your head. Go do the hard work of the math on twelve sigma and come back when you really understand the answer. It is non sense.

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    #80107

    Mikel
    Member

    John,You are a Black Belt – speak from data, don’t be a rumour monger.

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    #80111

    Jackie
    Participant

    Ok Stan,
    I’m going to attempt to be honest here without being sarcastic…but its gonna be a stretch.
    Do you honestly think that you are helping when you post these insulting responses to people?  I like the basic idea of challenging people to speak from data.  Time and time again, other people on this forum have demonstrated that you can do that without coming off like an arrogant jerk.  Your responses would be much more valuable if they were more concerned with learning than being right.
    I happen to know that you are ticking people off on this forum which is making you lose credibility fast.  If that doesn’t matter to you…go on and keep doing what you are doing.  Keep doing the same thing and keep getting the same results…people who only look at your posts to see who you’ve insulted this time. 
    Good luck.
    Jackie

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    #80112

    john beaudoin
    Participant

    I have created a new Post titled GE Tubine Engines – 12 Sigma?.  The post requests to get some actual numbers, if anyone is willing to share.  You will either have data or you won’t.  FYI go out on the internet and figure out how many aircraft flights there are in a year vs. how many plane crashes their are.  You will see that all of the airline industry is at about 12 Sigma when it comes to safety. (On-Time is a completely different story)

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    #80114

    Withheld
    Member

    “Why is it called six sigma?” is a pretty straight forward question. I think many (maybe all) skipped over a straight forward answer and jumped right to your second question. It is called six sigma because “six sigma” was (and is) a very marketable name – period.
    The answer to your second question was covered pretty thoroughly. Included among those responses were comments that make my blood run cold, specifically, comments equating the airline industry with sigma levels. What a crock of $%@#!
    The old “3.4 defects per million would mean ____ dead travelers” garbage was invented when 6S became an industry rather than a quality tool. It plays on ignorance and emotion in much the same way as a weight loss infomercial you’ll find on your local cable channel at 3AM.
    Cut through all the self-congratulatory crap and you’ve got statistically-based quality improvement. Apply some basic tools with a healthy dose of common sense and an open mind and you could eliminate a multi-billion dollar cottage industry.
    My apologies to the purists for my venom! The airline thing really sets me off.
     

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    #80151

    Mikel
    Member

    Jackie,
    Thank you so much advice. You may want to review your won work before giving such advice. I only challange people who are passing on bogus information or those who get on here to promote their own consulting work. If that offends you it is not my problem. This thread is filled with very wrong information.

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    #80465

    Jackie
    Participant

    Stan,For some reason, I didn’t see this response when you posted it.What work should I be reviewing?  From what I can see, I have only posted on this forum a couple of times.  The first thread was also a discussion with you where I challenged you to bring data to substantiate your claims (much like you do on this forum).  Interestingly enough, that was in respect to your endorsing a consulting company.  I only jumped on that one because you have gotten into discussions so many times about promotion.  I figured since you often take that stance that you would have data to support your statements in case someone challenged you.  You backed off and that’s cool.  I wasn’t trying to shut you up.  Just wanted to know where you were coming from with the advice and comments.I admire the fact that you challenge people.  I also worry about inaccurate information on this site because I often do searches on certain topics looking for good information.  Usually there is very conflicting information, which isn’t very helpful.  I am not suggesting you should back down with your demands for data to support claims that you think are false.  That is what Six Sigma is about.  I only think that when you (and others on this site) come across as insulting in your responses, less learning takes place than a simple discussion of the facts. I can appreciate that you are passionate about this.  I just don’t consider the approach to be very effective.By the way, I found this post because I did a search by author on my name. I did this because you referenced your female alter ego to Withheld.  I thought maybe I’d posted something in my sleep that I’d forgotten about.  I think its kinda interesting (perhaps coincidence) that you chose my name.  As someone else said a week or so ago (can’t remember who), I usually just lurk on this site.  I find it interesting reading.When I did a search on “Stan” it was a fascinating read.  You really do seem to have two personalities (which is what I thought Withheld was referring to when he said, “Stan (all of you)”  I guess that isn’t really relevant. I just found it interesting.When I said “Good Luck” at the end of my last message to you, I really did mean it. You seem to have a lot of knowledge to offer but I fear that you won’t be heard because of your tone.  I’m trying to be nicer about it this time (in the interest of practicing what I preach and because I’m not as cranky today).Good or bad, I do read your posts with interest.Jackie

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    #80471

    Mikel
    Member

    Jackie,
    I am glad you took the time to write. You put a lot of thought into it and I appreciate it.
    I was playing with Withheld when I told him about my alter ego, but I chose your name because we have had a similar style.
    There has been only one time that I know of that someone has posted under my name other than me. It was a couple of months ago.
    My point on here is help those who ask questions that show thought has been put into it and challange those that are putting stuff out that looks like knowledge that is not. I do my best to ignore trivial questions where there is no effort put forth by the writer. I come from a business culture that honors those who question and challange. The best companies do this, just read Execution by Bossidy if you do not buy that premise.
    My posting you first challanged was trying to throw a few firms into the mix other than the run of the mill, we’ll do business with anyone who has money, consulting firms. The ones I recommended both have their roots in Motorola then AlliedSignal and are run by two of only three people seen as capable of taking on Allied when the effort was begun. Both challange the leadership and will not take contracts that are doing Six Sigma because it is the current fad. You were right to call me on it.
    Thank you for taking the time to write.

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    #80621

    Mikel
    Member

    For the record, airline safety is actually about 6.4 sigma, not 12 as Johnboy suggested. John, where is that data we keep talking about?

    0
    #80626

    MN
    Participant

    It is “offensive”to write in Capital letters,thanks.   MN 

    0
    #80630

    Jackie
    Participant

    Stan,
    I have to assume that you have data to back up your claim.  Will you share?Jackie

    0
    #80696

    Sivaraman
    Member

    “The Perfect road to Perfection in Quality”

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    #80708

    Mikel
    Member

    Jackie,
    You are quickly becoming my hero. Good question.
    This number has been published numerous times by Motorola and Mikel Harry. It comes from FAA data.
    The Defect rate (fatalities per flight) is 0.43 PPM which is slightly greater than 6.42 sigma. The military flight fatality rate is somewhere around 4 sigma (I don’t recall the exact number) and has been published numerous times by the guys at Air Academy.
    Stan
    PS – I have data on our previous discussion as well, just looks way to much like promotion which I am against.

    0
    #80709

    Jackie
    Participant

    Hero? Wow.  I didn’t think you were that easily impressed.
    I thought you were against SELF-promotion.  Are you tied to GPS? (I assume that is the discussion you were referencing).
    Show me the data!
    And thanks for the data on airlines.  Is the .43 number published somewhere?  Where did you find it?
    Jackie

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    #80713

    Mikel
    Member

    Jackie,
    Hero, yes. You come back as hard as I come at anyone. I like that.
    Tied to anybody? – no. I own a small services company out of SoCal (20 million and growing).
    I know and have done business with people now at all of the companies mentioned in the previous exchange. I know their culture and business model as well as many of their customers (my present business is an outgrowth of a niche identified through some process improvement work). Talk to their customers if you want to know the truth.
    Is there a reason you did not question SBTI? Do you know them?

    0
    #80716

    Jackie
    Participant

    No, I have no firsthand knowledge of SBTI.  GPS stuck in my head because I hadn’t heard as much about them.  I know some people who had DFSS training with SBTI and were very impressed.  There was no particular reason I only mentioned GPS…except that i didn’t go read the original thread and just remembered that you referenced being trained by someone at GPS.  I could be remembering wrong. 
    The little bit I’ve heard about GPS has been pretty mixed.  I’d have to go back to our original conversation to comment about anyone else we may have talked about.  I don’t remember much.
    I’m trying to be good and compile my evaluations from GB training instead of playing on the forum all day.  This is a little more fun…but collecting my OWN data is probably more productive. :)  I’ll try to resist the urge to do a search for a our original postings until later.
    Take care,
    Jackie

    0
    #80764

    data cop
    Participant

    Stan,
    20 million…where’s your data….please post your income statement so we can verify this claim.  I thought you weren’t into self-promotion?
    Data Cop

    0
    #80875

    Jackie
    Participant

    Ouch!  I’m not sure it counts as self-promotion if we don’t know the name of the company (or Stan’s real name for that matter).
    But hey…I guess this is an opening.  Stan, I think if you provide more info, it would be responding to a request for information, which I think is different by definition than self-promotion.  But perhaps that rationalization is just an excuse to satisfy my own curiosity.
    Jackie

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    #81243

    XMY556A
    Member

    I didn’t read all the posts and replies but the ones I read seem to ignore that Six Sigma means : targetting one error for ever million (10 to the power SIX) actions.
    That’s a real and attainable target and one that can be easily explained to every one from the mail room to billing to quality control.

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    #81636

    sarath
    Member

    WHy is it called 6 sigma and what are the hierarichal structure and implementation benefits of it?
     

    0
    #81901

    d.ravichandran
    Participant

    list out the tqm courses available through correspondence to enhance the quality management knowledge

    0
    #82104

    oruc kaya
    Participant

    it is more than methodology or statistical business solutions (they are only tools to be successful) since it is a cultural transpormation from classical way of doing to the customer’s point of view.

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    #82116

    sl
    Member

    I recommend you read Mr. Carrolls article Bruce Hayes’s article entitled “Six Sigma Critical Success Factors”. Each article’s underlying message is aligning the organization. The collection of matric measurement data is very straightforward and designing a process improvement methodology is that which the 6sig folks do very well. What is lacking are the softer tools around the transactional project selections and success factors. These always involve “People’s” behaviors, traits, habits, likes and dislikes and things like, motivational energy. An analysis tool measuring those factors for success is critical as a partnering tool with the 6 sig initiatives.

    0
    #83519

    senthilkumar
    Member

    please tell me that what is 6 sigma ? and why it is named as 6 sigma?
    and tell me its features and importance and advanatages and disadvantages.

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    #83520

    Tuell
    Participant

    Senthilkumar,
    Try reading the “New To Six Sigma?” link on the left. Also visit the “Six Sigma Q&A” for other questions and answers.
    Barb

    0
    #83710

    Ling
    Participant

    Nice to know GEAE engineers value SixSigma… I would expect that they also implement ISO9001 quality and process systems, in my mind, a much more “validating” risk mitigation methodology, overall. 

    0
    #84135

    shinil
    Member

    Tell Me About That 6 Sigma &its features & advts&disadvnts

    0
    #84545

    Ravi.T.
    Participant

    Tell me about 6 sigma in detail

    0
    #84550

    Heebegeebee BB
    Participant

    Ravi,
    I have a sneaking suspicion that you are trolling.
    In case your question was posed seriously, use the search function.
    If you are a troll,  nice try!
    -Heebee

    0
    #84573

    ALFONSO BARRA
    Participant

    please if you have some material of six sima let me have …from mexico a salute

    0
    #84574

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    Alfonso,
    The blue bar with white writing on your left (as you face your computer) has all the information you need to know to get you started.
    Bien suerte. (I probably screwed that up – it is supposed to be good luck)
     

    0
    #84575

    Gabriel
    Participant

    Well, it was close… You’ve just said “Well luck”.
    Maybe you need a few more trips to SA…
    “Buena suerte” for you!
    :-)

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    #84604

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    Gabriel,
    Thank you.
    I have labeled virtually everything in the house with the Spanish word on 3X5 cards so I get the visual and the thought connected. The conversation side takes a lot more work.
    I appreciate the help.

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    #84740

    Ashley Cordeiro
    Participant

    Six Sigma is such a process that a layman will not be able to understand this in a nutshell. Yet this information was of great help to me. But I wanted desperately, an extensive training module data base so as to understand the process in more detail.
    Thanking you.
    Ashley Cordeiro

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    #84838

    Nosipho
    Participant

    What is six sigma all about?

    0
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