SATURDAY, JUNE 23, 2018
Font Size
Topic The Council for Six Sigma Certification

The Council for Six Sigma Certification

Home Forums General Forums General The Council for Six Sigma Certification

This topic contains 20 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by  Daniel Sims 2 weeks, 5 days ago.

Viewing 21 posts - 1 through 21 (of 21 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #182538 Reply

    Has anyone heard of this organization – The Council for Six Sigma Certification (sixsigmacouncil.org)?

    This one is new to me and I can’t figure out who is behind this “third-party accrediting body”.

    It looks like they review training providers on Course Curriculum, Course Structure and Testing/Certification Requirements. I’ve reviewed the requirements and the “approved providers” and, from my understanding, some of the providers don’t meet the standard yet are listed.

    I’m interested in hearing what others think of this organization and who’s behind the curtain.

    #182539 Reply

    Tom W.

    The whois record for the domain name is under privacy protection, but I went back in the history of the record and found some info.

    Domain ID:D159883237-LROR
    Domain Name:SIXSIGMACOUNCIL.ORG
    Created On:12-Aug-2010 16:28:03 UTC
    Last Updated On:12-Aug-2010 16:28:06 UTC
    Expiration Date:12-Aug-2012 16:28:03 UTC
    Sponsoring Registrar:GoDaddy.com, Inc. (R91-LROR)
    Status:CLIENT DELETE PROHIBITED
    Status:CLIENT RENEW PROHIBITED
    Status:CLIENT TRANSFER PROHIBITED
    Status:CLIENT UPDATE PROHIBITED
    Status:TRANSFER PROHIBITED
    Status:ADDPERIOD
    Registrant ID:CR56849005
    Registrant Name:CRAIG SETTER
    Registrant Street1:113 Lawnview Court
    Registrant Street2:
    Registrant Street3:
    Registrant City:Cranberry Township
    Registrant State/Province:Pennsylvania
    Registrant Postal Code:16066
    Registrant Country:US
    Registrant Phone:+1.4405211318
    Registrant Phone Ext.:
    Registrant FAX:
    Registrant FAX Ext.:
    Registrant Email:bursar@sixsigmaonline.org

    #490870 Reply

    Wayne

    seems like no small coincidence that the mailing address from the whois is the exact same town as Pro Source, one of the endorsed companies.

    [Portion of discussion redacted per https://www.isixsigma.com/topic/forum-etiquette/%5D

    #500479 Reply

    Based on my research, it looks like Aveta (a Six Sigma testing service that is not recognized) is behind this one. It took a lot of digging, because they do not have a phone number or address listed on the on The Council for Six Sigma Certification website. The address listed above is the same city as Aveta.

    #500629 Reply

    @cparet Mr. Paret, I realize you asked this 3 years ago. Basically Wayne and Becky did some nice investigative work but something tells me you may have posted that looking out of the corner of your eye. Maybe not.

    If you look at this industry the focus has shifted from deploying and getting results to selling certification. That is not meant to be a cheap shot. You are involved in training (which I believe is done very well) and I assume certification (never actually asked). It is interesting that when we began this whole thing we did certs purely as something ancillary so management would know who was satisfactorily trained to do the job, a training certificate to those who did classroom and no project – primarily to identify management teams that were not supporting the program and of course if there was no progress we sent them back to their job (if it was still available) by the Analyze Phase.

    Are people scamming certification? I am sure it is happening somewhere simply because there is money in it. Are these guys? No clue but If the only thing a company does is certification it should be a signal for a closer look.

    Just my opinion.

    #500630 Reply

    Gather Data

    [Portion of discussion redacted per https://www.isixsigma.com/topic/forum-etiquette/%5D

    Let’s look at the data.

    1. There is no business entity listed on the website. Search the terms and privacy policy. Nothing.
    2. They are using a “.org” domain name, indicating they are a not for profit entity, yet they have no not for profit identified.
    3. There is not contact information on their website. Why? Because they don’t want to be contacted.
    4. Their terms of service say, “Any claim relating to Council for Six Sigma Certification’s web site shall be governed by the laws of the State of Ohio without regard to its conflict of law provisions.” Yet they are not listed in the Ohio Secretary of State as a licensed entity: http://www2.sos.state.oh.us/pls/bsqry/f?p=100:2:0::NO:RP::

    C’mon, people. Whenever there’s money to be made (or scammed from people) there will be people there to do it.

    Do your due diligence. Don’t be a mark.

    #704876 Reply

    Hello, my name is Craig Setter and I am the proud founder of both Aveta Business Institute’s Six Sigma Online, ProSource, and The Council for Six Sigma Certification (CSSC).

    The CSSC and the training providers are separate entities and operated completely independently.

    In fact, Prosource isn’t even accredited for its Black Belt Program since it doesn’t currently meet the CSSC’s project requirement.

    Besides, over the years I have LITERALLY given free training materials and free accreditation to HUNDREDS of providers that are Aveta’s COMPETITION through CSSC. Seriously, think about that.

    But let’s consider the source of these attacks…

    Lots of posts from anonymous people here.

    The new ISSSP website appears to have boasted from 2015 to 2017 that “Up until the formation of ISSSP, there has not been a true Governing Body over Six Sigma”. Funny, I don’t recall ISSSP ever offering accrediation or certification. Anybody else?

    [Portion of discussion redacted per https://www.isixsigma.com/topic/forum-etiquette/ ]

    If interested, you can read more about it (and the supporting evidence of my beliefs) here.

    #704987 Reply

    So, are in fact Aveta Business Institute and The Council for Six Sigma Certification legitimate sources for Black Belt certification?? The reason I am asking is because two years ago, I was researching “Accredited Six Sigma Certification” and Aveta Business Institute was one of the first options. Wondering………

    #705015 Reply

    Hello Marshall. I am the proud founder of Aveta and CSSC.

    Aveta’s Six Sigma Online was one of the very first websites to offer online six sigma training and certification back in 2005. In just the past 6 years alone we have certified over 100,000 individuals. I am certainly not aware of Aveta’s offering not being considered legitimate by employers. Usually, it seems what makes a Black Belt considered somewhat less legitimate by the industry is if a project was never completed as a certification requirement (we have always required one). Unfortunately, that requirement seems to have become more of the industry exception these days instead of the norm in recent years.

    With that being said, if I may offer some personal advice… what makes your certification truly “legitimate” has less to do with where you got it, and more about what you have personally contributed towards earning it. Anyone who tells you different is just trying to sell you something.

    A “certification” in speaking Spanish won’t mean much if you can’t fluently speak Spanish. Meanwhile, there are tons of people in the world who speak Spanish perfectly with no “certification” at all. This analogy perfectly reflects Six Sigma as well.

    No matter where/how you receive it, you will get out of it what you put into it :) If you are interested in just learning six sigma, you can certainly begin your journey without spending any money at all. There are plenty of materials available, both on this site and elsewhere on the internet, that will help you in your journey!

    #705930 Reply

    @csetter I am going to be right up front with you, I don’t care for either of your posts and I will tell why. Before I do that I want to get this out on the table so you don’t drag me into this fight you appear to have initiated. My nephew is Scot Shank and owns IASSC. I have zero connection to that organization which includes management, IP and financial. I am not here to endorse IASSC or to disparage it either. Now that that is clear I do not expect it to be an issue again.

    Here is where you got my attention. You stated “Lots of posts from anonymous people here.” The word Lots is ambiguous but in terms of the length of strings on this site there are not lots of posts on this one. There are 9 total. 2 are you and 1 is me. Chris Paret is another. That leaves 5 – 2 of which are registered with iSS so that leaves 3 that are anonymous. I am probably getting to around 5000 posts on this DF and have never posted anonymously.

    The question that started this post was a question form Chris Paret about who CSSC was. That strikes me as odd. You say you were among the first for on-line training and began in 2005. I believe that Moresteam was actually the first or at least the first I knew of (to use your parlance “aware of”) and they began around 2000. You were 5 years later. That seems to be a very long time to still be part of the first. The other issue is Chris had worked for Minitab and Moresteam. Basically the Minitab people get around this industry and there isn’t much they are not aware of. It is actually a small community. As part of Moresteam you would have been a competitor. Chris was in sales and he wasn’t aware of a competitor? That just doesn’t make any sense.

    So we can put al of that aside and get to the question of certification. You say you are not aware of anyone having issues with your cert. I don’t know one way or the other. I do know there are a lot of things that each and everyone of us are not aware of. That doesn’t make them true or not true.

    You require projects. That is much different than the belts from the Allied, GE, Navistar, etc. deployments. Those certification project were mentored. We knew what happened or if it ever actually happened. Are you mentoring or checking the projects in your certification process? You say you have certified over 100,000 people. The reason I ask is a really good project still takes about 5 hours total just to verify (not to mention the logistics to get there). That is about 500,000 hours or about 250 man years. Normally that wouldn’t concern me except you said you do this for free. If I spread those years evenly over your 13 years then you need a full time staff of 19-20 people to cover that mentoring and verification. I have no idea how large your company is but 19-20 FTE’s is a big hit to revenue particularly when there is no revenue or at least that is how I understand your business model.

    I didn’t get into this to pick this stuff apart. We still haven’t gotten down to the quality of the certification or where you get the authority to certify. All your arguments seem to focus on the issue that you do it for free. On the surface that sounds very commendable. There is a flip side to that particular pitch. Why are giving something away for free where there is a market willing to pay for it?

    I certify people. Have for 23 years. Never outside of a deployment and I do not do it for free. My clients get a good ROI. We sell business improvement not certification. They are certified to have completed the training and project work to what we teach which is the same program we delivered to Allied, GE, Sumitomo, NEC, BHP Billiton, etc. I do not certify people someone else has trained. That has always felt very presumptuous to me.

    The last issue is your confrontation with other organizations and people in the SS community. For what? Do you think when you announce on each post that you are the proud of Aveeta and CSSC people are stopping and saying “I must have been wrong. He is proud of them. I have now changed my mind about Craig” Of course you are proud of them or at least if they are still open you should be. If you weren’t I would think you would have shut them down. Getting in the gutter and fighting it out was probably ok in the early 2000’s because this was kind of the wild west around this industry. I have spent my fair share of time in the gutter and in court. No real need anymore or at least the industry has matured to the point it doesn’t make any sense. I have no idea why you want to fight with ISSSP. It is under new ownership and the governance is very clean. I have joined again and most people know I have an issue following rules but it seems the way it is structured at this time it isn’t coming out to compete with its members by certifying anyone or to try to control my company. The concept is good. The only way to keep it good is to get involved and influence the direction it goes – but that assumes we all know the correct direction.

    I don’t normally spend this much time on a post. I have spent a long time thinking about this answer. That remark about anonymous posts didn’t set well with me. I have a lot of friend who over the years have posted anonymously because their employer would terminate them for posting under their real name. They post anonymously but that doesn’t mean what they post is or is not true.

    All of this is just my opinion.

    #705931 Reply

    @Mike-Carnell Hi Mike,

    Thank you for the post. Please note that my original post was heavily changed by the moderator (which made my points much less clear).

    Regardless, serious question… did Peter ask you to post this? Have you had any contact with any individual from ISSSP or IASSC in regards to this thread? The reason I ask is because it is very strange that an unbiased person would question why I am defending myself if they had read my linkedin post.

    Peter Peterka appears to link to this posting (from his website(s)) in an attempt to discredit my organization for his own purposes.

    If you went to the linked link I posted you would see the issue I have with the other posts that were made here and how they appear to be made out of malice (Chris Paret
    and your original post excluded). Beck Barry appears to be a long-time employee of Peter Peterka. She is even listed on ISSSP’s website now as part of the staff. Again, go read my linkedin post.

    Considering that your nephew (owner of IASSC) sued Peter Peterka (who appears to own ISSSP), I would assume you would be aware of the allegations in regards to Peter’s actions. Again, refer to my link.

    Respectfully, I don’t see how you are not biased:
    1. You state that you have family member(s) whom I am currently fighting in court.
    2. You appear to have been one of the first members of ISSSP, which appears to have been revamped by Peter Peterka under questionable terms… the very person whom I was referring to in my original (moderator redacted) post.

    In regards to the 100,000+ free certifications…. we started giving out free white belt training and certification many years ago when we were unable to talk the six sigma industry out of the need for it:

    https://www.qualitydigest.com/inside/twitter-ed/just-say-no-white-belts.html

    Note to Moderator: I have tried to post as little as possible while still making very basic points in my defense. I sincerely hope that you allow this post to remain “as-is”.

    #705932 Reply

    @csetter I told you why I posted this. You can see I was on this string long before you ever posted anything. I question this whole post because it seems to revolve around personality issues that have nothing to do with certification. There is no point where you make your case for certifying people beyond the fact that you do it for free. No – I have not read your LinkedIn post and I have not been on Peter Perterka’s website.

    I do not keep track of Scot Shank and I do not participate in his business in any way. I had no idea you were in a lawsuit with Scot Shank. That is between you and Scot and it still has nothing to do with the response to the question of certification.

    I am a member of ISSSP. Told you I was just like I told you I was related to Scot. I have no idea if I was the first to join of the one millionth. What number I am is irrelevant to anything. Obviously it is more important to you than it is to me. At this point it seems like a reasonable place (ISSSP) to have discussions with other people in the CI industry. When or if it stops serving my needs I will quit, the same thing I did last time.

    My real point should be I do not need to justify myself to you. I have around 5000 posts since 2001 and have pretty much always posted exactly what was on my mind just like I did today. I have been putting stuff up here for 17 years without anyone telling me what to post. I have been considering that response for weeks. I thought I was done with this post 3 years ago and then you started to post. No conspiracy here. This was in response to your post.

    The explanation of the white belt certification. White belts? Really?

    Craig I have no intention of engaging you beyond what I have done earlier today and this post. Beyond that this entire string is no longer good for the CI industry.

    Just my opinion.

    #706022 Reply

    Mike,
    Isn’t everyone “scamming certification” as you suggest? We all know that Six Sigma is based on utter nonsense.

    [Links to poster’s own articles found elsewhere removed per Forum guidelines]

    #706023 Reply

    I wondered what the angle was until I scrolled to the bottom. Of course, you’re trying to sell something.

    #706024 Reply

    @Daniel.S I am not sure if you are speaking of this thread specifically or of the iSS discussion forum in general.

    If it is the DF in general most of the people posting have jobs and are not trying to sell anything.

    I am a consultant and I sell deployments i.e. we are hired to do something specific in a business. Sometimes that is training. When we train on a deployment I do not certify anyone who does not meet my requirements and the companies requirements. I do not certify people outside of a deployment. Bottom line is I am not selling certifications.

    I have over 5000 post on the Discussion Forum and have been paid $0. I have made some very good friends in 17 years of posting. That is why I do this. I did pitch my book the other day for the very large sum of two other authors an I split about $1 per book.

    What exactly is it that bothers you about someone trying to sell something? Aside from some people who have trust funds most people are selling something. If you are working for someone, have a job, you are selling your time. The internet is covered with people selling something. Purchasing is still your decision.

    To follow on to this thread if you want to be able to interface with others in SS and not get a sales pitch, ISSSP is set up right now to operate that way. It is a nonprofit organization and operates within the legal requirements of a non profit.

    #706025 Reply

    @Mike-Carnell Hi Mike, I think you have completely misunderstood! I am replying to @burns above my comment, I clicked on one of his links about “Six sigma stupidity” and scrolled it to get his angle.

    I don’t think I even need to state the following (at the risk of sounding sycophantic) but I will anyway : I greatly appreciate all of the posters on the forum and their time, it’s an invaluable resource. I’ve actually read a few years worth of various topics now and have enjoyed the discussions. Although there is a hell of alot of homework questions haha

    #706026 Reply

    @Mike-Carnell
    I might be assuming here, but I think that @Daniel.S is referring the article linked by “Burns”. At the bottom of the first linked article is an explanation on why his particular services/products are more sound than the training and tools utilized in Six Sigma methodologies. I had a similar thought cross my mind while reading his article and finding the “punchline”.

    Just my thoughts.

    #706027 Reply

    @Mike-Carnell

    Respectfully, just because ISSSP recently became a non-profit does not necessarily mean anything. IMHO it is presumptive to assume the overall motivations of anyone or any organization (mine included). As stated in my above post, it appears that ISSSP was rebranded by someone who also sells six sigma training.

    As long as there are software providers, training providers, conferences, publications, etc… there will always likely be someone selling something wherever you go (here or anywhere else).

    Regardless, I just visited ISSSP’s “forum” and it appears that only 3 people have ever posted there… the screename “Example – Janie Doe”, “ISSSP Team”, and a guy who is apparently their “ISSSP Program Advisor” whom strangely appears to post and then reply to himself. It doesn’t appear to be a viable alternative to isixsigma when it comes to interfacing with others.

    iSixsigma is a robust community that is free. iSixsigma has free tools and templates. I have always referred people here. Why go somewhere else?

    #706029 Reply

    @csetter We are both entitled to our opinions. As far as I know at this time it is in compliance with the rules for non profits which means it is run by a board not a person. I do not see any rebranding. Exactly what do think is rebranding.

    I appreciate the enlightenment regarding people selling things. I am not sure what people posting has to do with anything.

    Now the part where you thought I need to be educated on iSS. My first post was in 2001. As I stated earlier I have over 5000 posts so thank you for all your words of wisdom. I am not sure at all why you would think someone has to make a choice between ISSSP and iSS. We are all adults and realize we can do both. One doesn’t have to be an alternative to the other. I do several discussion groups and LinkedIn because there seems to be different communities on each.

    You seem to have a real issue with Peter. That is your problem not ours. I am sure if you really wanted to you could pick up your phone and call him. The rest of us are not particularly interested. If you want to engage in a SS issue that is fine. If you just want to continue your fight I won’t be responding.

    Just my opinion.

    #706030 Reply

    @Daniel.S I apologize I did misunderstand your post. You can find a ton of stuff on Linkedin from Burns. Very reminiscent of Dr. Irwin Cory.

    These things become like people who watch television. You find people you like and people you don’t. I always read the stuff from Robert Butler because it is rare I don’t learn something and I rarely get in the middle of a string of his unless I have been digging through books. Chris Seider and Staydog I always read because they put good stuff up but I will disagree with them from time to time. Then there are certain people who I don’t read at all because they post the same dogma every time they post. Very tedious and completely unoriginal (if you watch the movie Good Will Hunting where he talks economics in the bar to the Kenny G wanna-be like that).

    Darth used to be the guy that figured out who was posting homework. He is still around but he is old and grouchy and I am not sure his wife lets him use the computer unsupervised any more.

    My apologies again.

    #706045 Reply

    @Mike-Carnell No worries Mike, agree there is certainly a handful of very knowledgable regular posters who I always read fully. It’s a great resource here.

Viewing 21 posts - 1 through 21 (of 21 total)

Register Now

  • Stop this in-your-face notice
  • Reserve your username
  • Follow people you like, learn from
  • Extend your profile
  • Gain reputation for your contributions
  • No annoying captchas across site
And much more! C'mon, register now.

Reply To: The Council for Six Sigma Certification
Your information:






5S and Lean eBooks

Six Sigma Online Certification: White, Yellow, Green and Black Belt

Six Sigma Statistical and Graphical Analysis with SigmaXL
Six Sigma Online Certification: White, Yellow, Green and Black Belt
Lean and Six Sigma Project Examples
GAGEpack for Quality Assurance
Find the Perfect Six Sigma Job

Login Form