iSixSigma

Too Much Agression

Six Sigma – iSixSigma Forums Old Forums General Too Much Agression

Viewing 24 posts - 1 through 24 (of 24 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #28302

    Edwards
    Participant

    I enjoy reading information posted on this site, on a daily basis. For the past 2 years I have been working as a BB for a small sized manufacturing coy (around 500 employees). There is one other BB. I do not have a quality of really an engineering background, through the years I have been promoted from a shop floor position. When I was offered the BB position I was told that I was one of the most promising individuals in the company. Then embarked on 6 weeks training over a 4 month period. (All training was in US, I am based in UK).
    I never found the training easy, but passed all exams (pass mark was70%). Since then all, except one of my projects have been successful. I think of myself as an achiever who understands the principles & tools of 6s, and can apply them under the appropriate circumstances. However, recently on this site I have become tentative about posting questions, for fear of attack from people like Stan or Ken. K, or even worse, long winded counter questions from NM.
    I suppose my point is that you don’t need to be a statistician or a consultand to understand how to apply the methodology. Those more enlightened individuals, should sometimes take a step back & think more about their answers, after all people only ask questions because they don’t understand, so don’t confuse them further.
    Stan & Ken, nothing personal
    David

    0
    #70272

    Ken K.
    Participant

    No offense taken, but I don’t recall “attacking” anyone or being agressive. That is just not in my nature.
    All I can think of is that you are referring to my message to “MUHANNAD AL NABULSI” regarding some of his odd posts. My point was that they were quiz-type questions that didn’t seem real. Examples:
    “Sketch  a boxplot of the following statistics:smallest=60, median=100, largest=115,1st quartile=80,3rd quartile=110….There are no outliers. Comment on the shape of this distribution.”
    “Obtain a newspaper with  a classified section and  create a stem-and-leaf plot of the  asking prices of  20 automobiles,selected at random.”
    …and I was frustrated by them. I suppose I should have just kept my thoughts to myself on that one, though if you’ve noticed, after my post, his messages become much better, asking genuine questions or making comments that have received responses.
    My other point was that this very web site, and of course search engines, has answers to lots of questions, and that people should take at least a quick look for an answer on their own before posting a question here. For example, before asking how to find the website for MINITAB (an example only), try searching for “minitab” in a search engine (I like Google) before posting the question. That is just my opinion.
    In general I don’t see much (any?!) flaming in this forum, which is nice. I do see some definite opinions, but that is part of the fun of this forum. If someone responds with an incorrect answer, then of course others should jump in and provide the correct answer. I’m sure no offense is implied, and hope no offense is taken.
    PLEASE don’t hesitate to post messages. That is what this forum is for. It really is an excellent forum. Like you, I truly enjoy reading the messages and replying to those I feel I can contribute to.
    We’re here to help, not to instill fear!! “United We Stand”, as they say.
    Ken K.

    0
    #70274

    Edwards
    Participant

    Thanks, Ken….nice reply, I agree with your thoughts, especially regarding NM. I now awaith the wrath of Stam.
    David

    0
    #70276

    Mikel
    Member

    David,I am sorry if my answers seem to aggressive for you. That is not my intent.There are a lot of statements made here that are posed as knowledge that are not and I am just making sure I am direct about that.For example, all of the nonsense about the suppliers in the last few days. No one has data that says 90% of problems belong to the supplier. No one has data that says every properly defined project saves $250,000. No one has data that says meeting spec is good enough. When I see people making these kinds of statements, I know we are violating rule #1 of Six Sigma – where is your data?I also am not a statistician or a consultant. I would not hire a stats person for this type of job. This is not about statistics.

    0
    #70277

    Edwards
    Participant

    Stan,
    Thanks for the reply…..I agree with your statements, I think the “customer” probably doesn’t have a 6s background, but is very sincere. However, you are right about the No1 rule, “where are the facts & data?”
    David

    0
    #70279

    Keep your head down boys
    Participant

    You have posted (at least) 101 messages since June this year. Perhaps you might like to review all of them – you can search for them by entering ‘Ken K’ in the forum search box.You have been derogatory and derisive on several occasions. If anyone answers, you always seem to have a smugger answer to follow, which I why I also no longer post replies. I just wait for your final, definitive, heavily opinionated and as always perfectly correct answer.Example (one of many)https://www.isixsigma.com/forum/showmessage.asp?messageID=2656You must remember that not everyone on this planet is American. Some of us come from other countries and cultures, and your replies are certainly seen as aggressive.“If someone responds with an incorrect answer, then of course others should jump in and provide the correct answer.”I now wait for your reply to correct my statistical observation without a due Gauge R&R study, without a due sample size or method, and without an approved course, company, or spelling. God help those of us with answers not approved as ‘correct’.

    0
    #70280

    or else it’ll get shot off
    Participant

    Stan
    I quote“He probably had a dumb customer like you that speaks in generalities and recommended general info sites like this as solutions.What an arrogant response and name you have given yourself. Obviously you (the customer) has not defined the problem very well or we would not be six months into work without a result. You give Six Sigma a bad name with responses like this.”This is not simply aggressive, this is down right rude.“When I see people making these kinds of statements, I know we are violating rule #1 of Six Sigma – where is your data?”Where is your data? “Probably” “obviously”?I thought that the opening message was very well presented and about a point now increasingly seen. I also thought that the reply was considered and constructive. Unlike yours.When people post like this they give themselves a bad name. Potential clients and employers read this site.

    0
    #70281

    Leung
    Participant

    This forum attracts many people who can be passionate about their beliefs and opinions.
    These same people are, for the most part, very much people-oriented, a key characteristic for a BB. Were you to meet them face-to-face, I suspect you would see that what comes over in type as aggression is really the excitement they have for their jobs. 
    Good BBs uses their passion to motivate and drive teams to excellence. I think those who use this forum are lucky we have such people to help us along the way.
     
     

    0
    #70283

    anon
    Participant

    Passion
    Strong feeling or agitation of mindPoliteness
    Glossy, polished, refined, of courteous manners

    0
    #70284

    outsiders opinion
    Participant

    I am not qualified as a six sigma professional but I have done extensive research into this area and have met many extremely high level six sigma professionals and I have drawn my own conclusions as to the nature of your debates.  Six Sigma is an interesting  subject and everyone I have met is extremely passionate about it.  I regularly read the post on this site and chuckle to myself over the arguments you lot have!  By nature of your professions it seems that you are all v. dedicated and dare I say that some are bordering on obsession with quality and perfection, needless to say that you all think you are always right!  (some more than others!)  At least you can take comfort in the fact that with this mindset I am sure that you are all in the right line of work!
    Just thought I add that!

    0
    #70288

    Jaran S.
    Participant

    I agree that often there is too much aggression. In many culture in the world, it is not acceptable.
    Although we discuss in technical issue and need the truth and right direction; we still need politeness, passion and friendship.
    We should respect others although their opinion are not the same as us, or even wrong.  
    I think Six Sigma can be more than technical issue. It also includes social issue. As we walk in Six Sigma way, many of us find that soft skill is more important than hard skill.
    As Six Sigma players, why don’t we pratice soft skill here also?
    Jaran S.

    0
    #70291

    Utah
    Member

    For heaven’s sake, such thin skin!  These abrupt answers are well made and appropriate at times.  Asking someone on this site to do your homework or answer a question that can be easily found in the directory shows lack of initiative and poor work ethic.  It insults those who are taking an active role in their professional development and use this forum to clarify readings or research that is beyond them.  Also, gross misinformation is reckless and of no help to the individual posing the question.  It does much more harm than good and should be rebuked.  What is more damaging,  bent egos or someone taking ridiculous information back to their process, customer, director, etc? If you don’t know, find out. If you can’t find it, ask the question.  If you get snubbed, put your cup on and ask it again.  Quit victimizing yourself, it is such a waste of everyone’s time.

    0
    #70293

    Sinnicks
    Participant

    Has anyone here ever heard of the golden rule….treat others the way you wish to be treated?  When feedback is delivered in a derogatory way, it puts people on the defensive, and stifles the creative thinking that the socratic method is designed to spur. 
    Think about Jonah (“The Goal”) and how he dealt with seemingly “stupid” comments.  He just threw back more questions that spurred the engineer to think about the logic behind the statement(effect-cause-effect or if x, then y), but never gave the answer.  Friends, this is effective, and at the same time, respectful. 
    Until Next Time,
    Mark 

    0
    #70294

    jones
    Participant

    I agree with Mark’s statement.  Oh, well, I have to catch my plane.
     
    Jonah

    0
    #70298

    Ken K.
    Participant

    Well put.

    0
    #70305

    Ken K.
    Participant

    After reading some of these responses I feel like I should have prefaced all my posts with . . .
    “The following comments are my opinions and my opinions alone – they likely do not represent the only solution or truth. There is no intention to outdo, confuse, or offend anyone, regardless of education, occupation, experience, nationality, culture, or place of origin.”
    I posted a few comments after reading this thread and found myself questioning how everything I wrote would be interpreted or misinterpreted.
    At this point responding to questions or comments seems hardly worth the grief of those who are offended. I thought I was helping people, but now I see that I’m somehow offending people. That takes the fun out of it, so this is likely my last post.
     

    0
    #70306

    Laura N.
    Participant

    Hi Ken,
    I’m probably one of the thousands of what they call “lurkers” on this forum. This is my first post, because I usually don’t have answers or strong opinions about most topics. I visit daily and love to read how others think through the process in hopes of expanding my thoughts of the many subjects.
    I have enjoyed reading your posts over the last months and would be dissapointed if you chose not to contribute anymore. They say that for every one person that voices an opinion, there are many others that feel the same way. I hope to read more from you in the future.
    Sincerely,LauraBlack Belt In Training

    0
    #70307

    Osama Bin Laden
    Participant

    cannot we all just get along….All this talk of agression is making me to be upset…Please let us be friends again and so I can have peace in my cave

    0
    #70308

    Jaran S.
    Participant

    Please don’t give up, my friend.
    I like many of your answers.
    I think we should forgive each other. (I mean I forgive you and you also forgive me what inappropriate things we have done.)
    We (You, I and others) are in an improvement process.
    Why don’t we try to make this forum better and make this world more beautiful?
    Jaran S.

    0
    #70310

    EPS
    Participant

    Hi all,
    I invite everyone to value the positive things about this forum! If by any reason (misinterpretation, egos, etc) you think a reply is aggressive, please don’t take it personal. I believe that most of us are trying to help each other.
    Enjoy this and many other things in life,…. life is too short to get upset over insignificant events. It is all about attitude!
    Happy weekend!
    EPS
     
     

    0
    #70311

    muhannad al nabulsi
    Participant

    Plase continue,Don’t be so sensitive,I think your “intelligent”contribution is highly appreciated,I personally have enjoyed your clever comments.
                                          thanks & best regards                 MN

    0
    #70352

    Leung
    Participant

    Ken K. — I have been in this business nearly 20 years.
    I find your comments to thoughtful, honest, and insightful.
    I frequently use your comments in both my work and in my training and mentoring of younger engineers. You are a valued resource.
    At least wait until I retire!
    Ben
     

    0
    #70396

    NATZIC
    Participant

    Now I know why I love my job so much.  You’ve hit the nail on the head!  Thank you.
    Pat

    0
    #70975

    hoon
    Participant

    hi ken,
    just want to say thank you for your help and this forum really help me to understand SPC and Six Sigma a lot.

    0
Viewing 24 posts - 1 through 24 (of 24 total)

The forum ‘General’ is closed to new topics and replies.