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Toyota re-invent the wheel?

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  • #39902

    C. Alvarez
    Participant

    Are 5S, SMED, JIT, something really new?
    Methods & Times Engineering are using these for decades, with other names.
    Sisheo Singo didn’t invent nothing new, and he called himself the “father of 4th industrial revolution”.
    I agree that Toyota succesfully applied these concepts in a general concept for his production system, never forget,  in a concret social scenario.
    We can read about a lot of errors, non-precise terms, and general unknowledge about methods design and work operations time determination in some fasionable Lean Manufacturing literature.
    What a pity!
     

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    #122527

    Paul Gibbons
    Participant

    C.
    “We can read about a lot of errors, non-precise terms, and general unknowledge about methods design and work operations time determination in some fasionable Lean Manufacturing literature”.
    Could refer to your postings too couldn’t it ;¬)
    I do agree with you that rose tinted glasses have been worn by some Lean practioners in the past and that some of the ideas are not that new. I remember being told that “cleanliness was next to godliness” when I was an apprentice Fitter and Turner 20 years ago. We used to have shadow boards at school and that was even longer ago!!
    Shingo wasn’t the father of 4th industrial revolution, my metal working teacher was;¬)
    Paul

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    #122528

    Issa
    Participant

    His name is not Sisheo Singo but Shigeo Shingo and he never called himself the “father of 4th industrial revolution”.
    Besides he “did not invent nothing” is not proper English. You say: “he did not invent anything”.
    I do not know where you are getting your information from but you need a little more reading.
    Issa

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    #122530

    Mike Carnell
    Participant

    C. Alverez,
    I have never seen anything where Shingo has refered to himself as the father of anything. I would be interested in seeing where you saw that. If it is somone else such as Ohno or Monden then it caries some credibility since they worked with him enough to realize his value.
    As far as who invents what – nobody really cares. You give credit where credit is do for some original thought. That doesn’t make a person the be all and end all on a particular subject. The fact of the matter is Shingo did some spectacular work in Toyota. If there were all these methods floating around and he put them into a context that actually got someone to apply them then that is its own form of genious. The question becomes where did the value come from. The person that can actually apply it, convince others to try it and make it available to the general population.
    As far as being the father of anything goes there are enough ideas, methodologies, etc that have been documented that will allow any decent practitioner to take those concepts and put them to work in their facility and move a mediocre company to a Best in Class and never create an original concept.
    At the end of the day Shingo is a hero. No esoteric discussion of who begat who will erase his accomplisments.
    Just my opinion.
    Good luck

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    #122531

    C.Alvarez
    Participant

    Sorry for my english, (I’m not an english writer)
    I don’t mind the name of  S.., S…
    But they said “the tools that are used more frecuently in the right hand area must be disposed nearer the right area at the workplace, etc.”
    Do you believe that we need to read this kind of stupid things?
    I only need to know MTM RGPM principle to understand the DNA of work methods design.
    Lean practicers learn practicing in the arena, Lean thinkers, What are they doing? reading? writing? again and again the same things?, (in many cases nothing new from TPS).
    It seems a beautiful and fashionable way to many engineers to personal promotion within many companies. There are others working hard in Productivity and Quality processes improvement day by day.
    Is Lean thinking in the mind of managers, consultants and technicians, when they speak about it in their well air-conditioned meeting rooms or could we really see it at the shop-floor in workers’ mind?
    P.D: If you prefer we could continue discussing in Spanish so I can check properly your Spanish writing.

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    #122532

    C.Alvarez
    Participant

    Dear friend,
    I Agree with you with Shingo real and well done spectacular accomplisments in Toyota.
    My message was other diferent. “Re-inventing the wheel” and this includes Shingo work, re-naming common sense concepts and the most dangerous topic: lossing a lot knowledge about human work.
    Just my opinion.
    Best Regards
     

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    #122533

    Issa
    Participant

    I am not trying to be funny but you need to articulate a little bit better. I do not understand what your stance is.

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    #122534

    Issa
    Participant

    Podemos hablar en Espanol, amigo.
    No tengo ningún problema que discute este tema en español o francés. Vayamos para él.

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    #122535

    C.Alvarez
    Participant

    You say that by RGPM principle, ja, ja, ja, ja, (in Spanish).
    My post was perfectly articulated and you need to learn many things.
    Best Regards

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    #122537

    UFO
    Member

    Hey Amigo. I agree with you. Can you believe this Mike
    Carnell character. What an idiot. Not that long ago his
    posts and those of his cronies were aimed at debating
    and defaming those that brought six sigma to the world.
    Now his position on Shingo is that “who invented what” is
    of little concern. If you participate on this site, expect this
    kind of two faced talk and demeaning remarks. I guess if
    these guys were any good their names would be “in the
    books” like Shingo. They are just PO’d that others got the
    glory while they got a back seat on the bus to nowhere.

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    #122538

    Mikel
    Member

    Last time I checked Shingo called himself Shigeo not Sisheo or “father of 4th industrial revolution.
    Seems like if you are going to start these stupid threads you could at least get the guy’s name right.

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    #122542

    Hero Worship
    Participant

    Unlike Dr. Harry who is undoubtedly the Father of Six Sigma.

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    #122543

    Mikel
    Member

    You left off the hype – “father of Six Sigma hype”

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    #122548

    Adam Bowden
    Participant

    Hi Paul,
    Got to agree with you – my metal teacher was the same !  He motivated one of the students – kicked him that hard in the rear that it split his pants from the backside right round to the button at the front – now that’s real MOTIVATION at work !  ;-)
    Regards,
    Adam
     

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    #122549

    Issa
    Participant

    I bet that student will never forget why he was so well motivated. That’s what I am talking about. Good teacher!!!!!!!

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    #122552

    Adam Bowden
    Participant

    Issa
    Our Geography teacher was also pretty cool..
    One kid in our class did not complete his homework  :-(   the teacher approached him, chewed him out, dragged him by the scruff of the neck “through the table” to the front then tipped out his bag of books on the floor, chewed him out again then kicked the kid in the rear as he picked up his stuff.  Our school – never a dull day !
    Just think – teachers are not allowed to raise a voice ot touch pupils – where is today’s respect training !!
    Regards,
    Adam
     

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    #122553

    Issa
    Participant

    You sure did have good teachers! I was a teacher myself. I resigned because the school system had started to turn me into a sissy. Look at what is happening to our school system.

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    #122593

    C.Alvarez
    Participant

    No se dice Espanol, amigo, se dice Español
    No se dice no tengo ningún problema que discute este tema en español o francés. Se dice no tengo nigún problema en discutir este tema en español o francés.
    No se dice Vayamos para él, se dice vayamos a por él, aunque esto no lo usa nadie, se usa: Hagamoslo.
     
    Saludos amigo.

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    #122597

    Alvarez
    Participant

    Let’s make an agreetment.
    You explain me what’s the factor that disturbs completily the TVAL values, and I promise you to get right name of that sisheo?, singeo?, seseo?, parpadeo?, melameneo?
    the stupid is your comment and no talk about my message.
     

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    #122643

    Issa
    Participant

    Alvarez,
    Can’t you find yourself better to do than try to discuss a subject that you do not have any knowledge about?
    Get out of here!
    Go and buy a dictionary and a grammar book and learn to speak English. I am learning Spanish, do like me.
    Issa

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    #122645

    UFO
    Member

    Issa. Your answer is quite arrogant and generally stupid.
    Quit trying to emulate this jerk named “Stan” He is a
    nobody trying to act like a somebody at the expense of
    others, like people with new money. Smart people can
    sometimes act stupid, but stupid people rarely act smart.
    Me? I am of the latter variety, but just smart enough to
    recognize my own stupidity and that of others.

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    #122646

    Mikel
    Member

    ‘Okay smart guy, I’ll bite. What is TVAL?

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    #122648

    Mikel
    Member

    Hey uffo, is that short for duffo?
    You want to compare knowledge and experience?

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    #122649

    Mikel
    Member

    No talk about your message?
    What is your message?
    You are some arrogant snot nosed IE that knows theory but no application?
    Why don’t you tell us what you have achieved and where?

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    #122650

    Issa
    Participant

     UFO,
    I am not emmulating anybody. The guy is just becoming very annoying. No one can decipher his gibberish and he keeps coming back. I suggested that we discuss in Spanish but he does not want to, so screw him.
    Issa.

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    #122651

    human Factors Chris
    Participant

    I like word game; here is what I found:
    1. Welcome to Tvål! Tvål is the Swedish word for soap, and soaps, among many other things.
    2. LET cc=cval: LET tt=tval 90 LET chan=cval+1 100 PRINT … l= INT (tval/48-3)*30: LET s=tval-48* INT (tval/48): LET s=100
    3. can’t read “tval”: no such variable while executing “return $tval” (procedure “valueOf” line 3) invoked …
    4.  select(fd_set *fds,struct timeval *tval) { struct timeval t2; int selrtn; do { if (tval) memcpy((void *)&t2,(void *)tval,sizeof(t2 …
    5. Thompson Valley Art League (TVAL)
    6. tval = Etinv((1-alpha/2),nu);
    7. A simple code to learn your astrological sign … order try this Dim Tval as integer Tval= val(tDay.Text) If IsNumeric(Tval) = False Or tval=0 or Tval >31 Then tDay.Text … 
    8. tVal – the transparency value
    9. Instead of a Tval (true logic value)

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    #122652

    UFO
    Member

    Hey little man stan. Why should he tell you anything, you
    don’t. Go fishing for awhile because your brain might
    make good catfish bait. You need a break from yourself
    and so do we. You are obviously a frustrated, older, low
    level worker trying to make out like a young C-Suite
    executive. Give it up man. Everyone sees you for what
    you really are.

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    #122653

    UFO
    Member

    Inhuman Factors Chris. You are as big an idiotic as stan.
    Your post on TVAL definitions clearly underscores your
    inability to add value.

    0
    #122654

    Issa
    Participant

    You guys are going down and dirty now. Don’t do that! we want a positive, candide and instructive conversation, not this cheap-chat so I order you to freeze it.

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    #122655

    UFO
    Member

    Issa. Hate to be the one to tell you this, but you are the
    one that is annoying. The content of your posts is
    meaningless and without value. Soon we’ll put you in the
    same worthless bucket as stan. Stan has tainted his
    already worthless reputation in the six sigma community,
    don’t follow his lead. Remember that misery loves
    company.

    0
    #122656

    Mikel
    Member

    Dufo,
    What is it that I really am?
    What are you anyway? Are you that young c suite executive? What a joke.

    0
    #122657

    Mikel
    Member

    Dufo,
    And what value have you added?

    0
    #122658

    human Factors Chris
    Participant

    UFO (Unique and Factored Out)
    Guess the point went over your head. If you wish to use the terms of this sight use them. If you wish to introduce outsourced terms or acronyms, put then in context with a definition. Acronyms are like opinions….and I know what context I put you in. You need to take life from a lighter point of humor because that is how some of us are taking you. Why don’t we talk about MANOVA, ANCOVA, Split plot designs, dummy coding (no i’m not talking about you)…point is, whether applied experienced, academic experience, or hard knox experience, you met learn something or even teach something if that is your intent.  

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    #122659

    Mikel
    Member

    Dufo,
    So now you speak for the entire Six Sigma community?
    Are you even a yellow belt?

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    #122660

    UFO
    Member

    Little man stan. Yeah, its duffo if you want it to be. Better
    look in the mirror and discover your true self before
    offering to compare vitas. Everyone else in the six sigma
    community sees it but you. It takes a special kind of jerk
    to boast about his own accomplishments. You sound like
    an idot making stupid statements like “you want to
    compare knowledge and experience.” Come on, make
    another stupid post for us and revalidate your profound
    ignorance. You seem to get your jollies beat’in up on
    fresh-outs and new practioners. When are you going to
    crawl out of your hole and become accountable? Likely
    never.

    0
    #122661

    UFO
    Member

    I don’t claim to add value. Truth is that I just like to point
    out stupid posts like yours.

    0
    #122662

    Mikel
    Member

    Dufo,
    You still got your t__ in a wringer because you are not smart enough to understand my answer to your dumb innovation vs quality question?
    Just because you did not understand you started taking swings at me? Go read your own posts.

    0
    #122663

    UFO
    Member

    Chris. You obviously need to go back to school and
    retake english and a writing lesson or two. By the look of
    things, I am assuming that english is not your dominant
    language.

    0
    #122664

    Mikel
    Member

    Dufo,
    You are not doing a very good job of that either.
    Go back to where this started with the Innovation question. Go ask yourself why you started swinging. Come back when you want to have an intelligent exchange.

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    #122665

    Mikel
    Member

    Dufo,
    And being smart enough to shut up is not your dominant tendency.

    0
    #122667

    UFO
    Member

    little man stan. Sir, I am a triple Ph.D. that has been
    crowned twice and once anointed, only to be further
    honored as a double grand pupa black belt that has also
    been fully certified and acredited by the Pope, Motorola,
    Jack Welch, MIT, Honeywell and Citibank. I also have a
    standing reservation at Holiday Inn Express. So as far as
    having a direct line to all six sigma practitioners world-
    wide, let me just say that Dr. Deming was my step brother
    and Bill Clinton was on my doctoral committee.

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    #122668

    UFO
    Member

    little man stan. Yet another stupid post from stan the little
    man.

    0
    #122669

    Mikel
    Member

    Dufo,
    You are an idiot, aren’t you?

    0
    #122670

    Mikel
    Member

    Nope, just another correct answer like the answer to your dumb innovation question.

    0
    #122671

    UFO
    Member

    I am now bored with your dry mundane rehtoric. Maybe
    its high time for you to retire and enjoy old age. Goodbye
    little man stan.

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    #122672

    human Factors Chris
    Participant

    Grammar Lessons: Can you guess who posted this? My errors were typos what were yours? By the way, please feel free to elaborate on TVAL…enlighten me. Being grand poop and all you must know everything and should learn us little folks.
    little man stan.  This is a sentence.
    practitioners world- wide I thought worldwide was one word.
    beat’in up  Slang is always nice.
    Likely never. Look , here is another complete sentence.
    Issa. Another complete sentence
    Remember that misery loves company. Where’s the subject?
    rehtoric Did you mean rhetoric, you must have read the reader’s digest today? 

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    #122673

    UFO
    Member

    Chris. TVAL stands for Trival Verbage ALways. I am bored with you too. Goodbye Inhuman Factors Chris.

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    #122675

    human Factors Chris
    Participant

     I was expecting a great now theory to expound on with your TVAL. Your political correctness in your response was greatly appreciated. I see better responses and acronyms in my teenagers’ trivial instant messaging. I guess none of your friends would respond to you on AIM anymore so you lied about your age to talk with adults here.
    Chris

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    #122686

    New VGB
    Participant

    Speaking  always  about  Toyota  Program:What  about  other  successful  companies?Honda,Mitsubichi………etc,

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