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Using Shainin DOE clue generation tools in Six Sigma

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Viewing 53 posts - 1 through 53 (of 53 total)
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  • #27953

    Jaran S.
    Participant

    Are there anybody using Shainin DOE in your Six Sigma projects.
    I want to develop the best clue generation tools for Six Sigma and Shainin DOE which can screen more than 100 potential factors to less than 20 factors.
    Now I have clue generation tools as the following ;
    1. muti-vari chart                           (classical Shinin)
    2. concentration chart                    (classical Shinin)
    3. pair comparision                       (classical Shinin)
    4. component search                        (classical Shinin)
    5. product/process search              (add by Keki Bhote)
    More tools added are :
    6. modified hypotesis testing (both parametic and non-parametic)
    7. historical data analysis (multiple regression with interaction)
    Do anyone suggest more tools?   Do anyone have comment?
    Please suggest
    Jaran S.

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    #69147

    anon
    Participant

    Isn’t it interesting that none of the classic Shanin is really Shanin’s stuff?
    Multi Vari – Gillette company from the 1950’s
    Paired comparisons – Tukey
     
    and so on.
     
    The simplifications that Shainin made a fortune on are no longer good tools in this day of cheap computers and software. Get good tools forget that Shainin nonsense.

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    #69168

    kony
    Participant

    With all respect to “anon” – forget about engineers and computers! Teach operators with Shainin DOE and you will get more people enthusiastic and involved in their work. Furthermore, if one operator get sick, nothing happen. If computers break down or engineers get sick – you won’t have any progress in you SixSigma projects.
    Other tools – yes: “JUST DO IT!” tool.

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    #69170

    Arvin T. Caberte
    Participant

    Friend ,
         I have not encounter this Shainin DOE , could you refer me please to any website that discuss this Shainin DOE  ? I want to know about this Shainin DOE .
    Thank You !
    Regards,
    Arvin

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    #69171

    Paul Steed
    Participant

    I’m afraid I agree with ‘kony’.  Shainin tools can solve the problem while others are still working out how to crunch all the data.  I solved a problem over lunchtime that our engineers had spent days running away from. And it stayed fixed.
    I have a spreadsheet that ‘electronifies’ the examples in the first ed of Bhote’s book if anyone wants.
    Paul Steed
     

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    #69178

    Rick_Crawford
    Member

    I am interested in your “electronified”…..
    Please forward.
    Thanks.
    Rick
     

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    #69179

    James Haske
    Participant

    Please forward the the Shainin DOE chart to me as well at [email protected].
     
    Thanks

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    #69180

    Schuette
    Participant

    I have to agree with anon, that one is better to learn and practice statistically sound methods rather than the Shainin tools.
    While some may point to successes with Shainin tools, these tools do not have the statistical robustness nor rigor that I should be required for an organization’s standard practice.

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    #69182

    Tierradentro
    Participant

    Hi Paul
    I would be very interested in your speadsheet. Some time ago I tied myself in knots writing a multi vari spreadsheet, buit have not had time to revisit it yet.
    John

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    #69187

    Dewayne
    Participant

    Paul, I, too, would appreciate a copy of the spreadsheet.  Thanks.
    [email protected]m

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    #69188

    Kim Niles
    Participant

    Dear Arvin:
    Regarding your comment “what is Shainin”, see Keki Bohte’s book “World Class Quality” at: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0814404278/qid=1002820151/sr=1-6/ref=sr_1_6_6/102-3484353-9791333
    I took a class from Keki who claimed to be the only licensed author of Shainin’s techniques.  These techniques are ways to visually detect approximated statistical significance and confidence as one would with a DOE. 
    Dear Paul:  Please send me a copy at [email protected]
    Thanks.
    KN http://www.znet.com/~sdsampe/kimn.htm
     
     

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    #69189

    Anonymous
    Participant

    But according to the Holy Word of Bhote, all other methods (Classical and Taguchi) are inferior. So therefore they must be inferior!This is why all practioners must give up Classical DOE and Taguchi DOE. They are sinful. You must worship Shainin!The same goes for Classical SPC. Pre-Control is the only divinely inspired methodology.

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    #69202

    kony
    Participant

    Jim, I think tukey test is based on statistics?!
    Anyway, what I see even in my company that engineers are … affraid!! Why? Becasue Shainin tools are so simply that everybody who finished elementary school can use with RESULTS after few days of training! If so, why they (engineers) spent few years at universities and now all they can do to solve problems is … guessing! Shoot and check if the problem is dead. Furthermore, engineers didn’t even tried to use Shainin DOE and keep telling – it’s not working. Well, if you’re saying that something is not working and you even didn’t try this out, you are:
    1. Ignorant – we all are.
    2. Stupid…
     
    For those who use other methods and for those who use Shainin DOE with results – all the best in reaching your golas and solving problems.

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    #69203

    kony
    Participant

    Jim, I think tukey test is based on statistics?!
    Anyway, what I see even in my company that engineers are … affraid!! Why? Becasue Shainin tools are so simply that everybody who finished elementary school can use with RESULTS after few days of training! If so, why they (engineers) spent few years at universities and now all they can do to solve problems is … guessing! Shoot and check if the problem is dead. Furthermore, engineers didn’t even tried to use Shainin DOE and keep telling – it’s not working. Well, if you’re saying that something is not working and you even didn’t try this out, you are:
    1. Ignorant – we all are.
    2. Stupid…
     
    For those who use other methods and for those who use Shainin DOE with results – all the best in reaching your golas and solving problems.

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    #69208

    John Adamo
    Participant

    Will you please send me a copy as well.  [email protected]

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    #69210

    Marc Richardson
    Participant

    Paul,
    I am in the process of digesting Bhote’s book, “World Class Quality”, 2nd edition. The first 100 pages or so are littered with meaningless numerical ratings of Shainin vs Classical vs Taguchi DOE techniques. He also takes on ISO-9000, QS-9000, Baldridge and the Euro quality award with the same numbing effect.
    That being said, I perceive a glimmering of gold beneath the dross of the ill-advised comparisons. One good source for Shainin information is to be found at http://www.carillontech.com/
    Please forward me the spreadsheet: [email protected]
    Thak You,
    Marc Richardson,
    Sr. Quality Assurance Engineer

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    #69215

    Murray
    Participant

    One of the things that Dorian said was that ” a little knowledge can be dangerous.” I had the fortunate experience to work with Dorian many years ago, and saw first hand how simplified techniques can be used so affectively by so many people with minimal instruction. Many people today have difficulty differentiating between theoretical and practical significance. There is also a tendency to apply very exacting math to a foundation in itself which is not exact. It is disheartening to hear someone call Shainin’s work nonsense. If anyone is truly a problem solver, they must know how to select the best tool to help solve the problem at hand. I know of no such one tool that solves all problems. Indeed, most problems are solved with the gathering of some simple numbers. Dorian was well versed in full facorial experimental designs, ANOVA of course, and beyond.

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    #69219

    Charlie Smith
    Participant

    My experience goes back into the 1980’s. I am a strong believer in using the simplest tool possible, getting as many people as possible to use it, and then get out of the way.
     
    Could you forward a copy of your spreadsheet?
    Thanks
     

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    #69303

    Schultz
    Participant

    Hi Paul
    I am very interested in your speadsheet. Please send me a copy.
    Thanks,
    Charlie

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    #69304

    Paul Steed
    Participant

    Charlie, I need an email address to send it to. Please register on the forum
    Paul

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    #89296

    Jeff Railton
    Participant

    Hi Paul, I only recently became introduced to Shainin’s work.  Is the spreadsheet still availabale?  If so, my email address is [email protected]
    Thanks and best regards.

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    #93275

    David Tilbrook
    Participant

    Paul,
    If your spreadsheet is still available I’d like to take a look at it. Any chance of a copy please?
    Best regards
    David Tilbrook ([email protected])

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    #93276

    Jeff Railton
    Participant

    Hi Paul, if possible I would really appreciate a copy of the spreadsheet.

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    #93278

    PK
    Participant

    Please could you send your spreadsheet [email protected] Regards

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    #93292

    PB
    Participant

    Paul,
    Will you be able to able to send me a copy as well? If you can, please reply to this post and I will place my email address.
    PB

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    #93294

    Andy Urquhart
    Participant

    My appraoch is to study all methods – each has something to offer. For example, Shainin taught me to test the repeatability within a DOE cell as compared to cell to cell variation before continuing with large and expensive DOEs. This has stood me in good stead; especially with ‘component search DOE’ where levels are determined from test results. From Taguchi I learnt that my levels can sometimes vary, depending on the resolution of the controller, or as a percentage of FSD. From classical statistics I learnt that random independence is a fundmental assumption of most statistical methods, which is why we need to consider carefully what visually inspected DPMO really tells us; before our entire manufacturing industry is tranported over to the Far East. (No offence to anyone over there.) I remember well a subsidiary of a USA company complaining to me that while he reported all defects on his PCBs, and they were in the thousands, his mirror facility in the States did not. As someone with some process engineering experience I reminded him about the assumption of random independence, but his response was that he was not going to cheat. His facility is now shutdown, presumably on the basis of the visual inspections; since few PCB manufacturers in the UK rarely electrically test boards! (Nor do they perform design rule checks!)

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    #93306

    Albert
    Participant

    Hi Paul,
    Can I have a copy of your spreadsheet on Bhote’s book. please send it to [email protected]
    thanks,
     
    AbetF

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    #93321

    Paul Steed
    Participant

    Hi, I get a lot of requests for this. I have put a link to the spreadsheet on http://www.qualityclinics.com/download.htm
    Good luck
    Paul Steed

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    #93323

    Paul Steed
    Participant

    Hi I have posted a link to the spreadsheet at ww.qualityclinics.com/download.com
    Good luck
    Paul
     
     
     

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    #93324

    PB
    Participant

    Hi Paul,Many thanks for the information. I did download. PBPS – For those who are going to download the link should be http://www.qualityclincs.com/download.htm. OR you could go to http://www.qualityclinics.com and then go to software section for the download.

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    #95420

    DAVEMAIJALA
    Participant

    Paul, please send a copy of the spreadsheet if available.
    Thank you very much.
    Dave

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    #96591

    Erik Melchor
    Participant

    Hey Paul!
    I’ll appreciate if you could send me your spreadsheet from the Bhote’s books, please!
    Thank you,
    Erik Melchor
    My e-mail is: [email protected]

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    #97488

    F.Sutculer
    Participant

    Hello Paul,
    I would like to get the spredsheet you have prepared. I have been reding the second edition of Bhote’s book.
    I can add the experiements in this edition.
    Regards
     

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    #97501

    Paul Steed
    Participant

    Hi, you can get the spreadsheet from http://www.qualityclinics.com/download.htm.  Let me know if you update it for the second edition.  There are several new techniques in it
    Regards
    Paul
     
     

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    #99380

    Makarand Joshi
    Participant

    Paul, I am interested in the spreadsheet mentioned by you. Can you pl. forward it to me?
    Thanks,
    Mak

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    #105410

    Ram narayan
    Participant

    Dear Jaran,
    My name is Ram narayan and i am from India. We are using only Shainin tools in all the six sigma projects. These tools are very user friendly and down to earth. I am a consultant helping automobile companies improve their process and solve chronic problems. In addition to the tools that you had written, there are some mor tehcniques, which has been developed in some complex situations. We have around 350 six sigma projects where shainin tools are used.
     
     

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    #105417

    Anonymous
    Guest

    Ram,
    I am aware that the following are missing from Bhote’s book:
    Isoplot
    Randomized sequence
    I’d be interested in finding out about some of the others you referred to  …
    Andy

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    #108949

    howe
    Participant

    I would love a copy too as I am just learning these tools.  Thanks! [email protected]

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    #111888

    Shekhar Biswas
    Member

    Pls can you send me the electronic sheets on [email protected]

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    #111929

    iwb
    Participant

    Jaran,I’m not aware if your question was answered, as I scanned only the first 50% or so.It depends a little on the kind of system you investigate, e.g. whether or not you can disassemble and reassemble it again. However, I think >>paired comparision>paired comparision>paired comparisionpaired comparisionpaired comparision

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    #111930

    iwb
    Participant

    Oh, great,I just discovered I can sabotage this text box by entering the angle operator to be a little perlish ;-)

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    #113464

    shubhrangshu
    Member

    Having worked with gemba-kaizen techniques, Six Sigma (DMAIC), KT , Shainin DOE. I think Shainin DOE gives the maximum results as against others.
    Its the easiest tool which even the operators can learn and implement. and results are to the magnitude of 50:1 improvements
    regards
    Shubhrangshu

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    #113466

    Anonymous
    Guest

    Shubhrangshu,
    Thank you for sharing: I would be interested to find out how you performed the analysis of your ‘Shainin DOE’, as it’s been sometime since I attended his course.
    Do Shainin courses still teach Yates’ algorithm? Have they adopted Taguchi’s interaction diagrams?
    Regards,
    Andy

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    #113468

    shubhrangshu
    Member

    hi Andy,
    Thanks for your mail. If you want to know more about this topic you can refer to World Class Quality by Bhote & Bhote..
    Regards
    Shubhrangshu

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    #113470

    Thai
    Participant

    Shubhrangshu,
    I would tend to agree with you to a point in that Shainin methods work well when dealing with products that can be easily disassembled and reassembled, however on products and processes that are chemically or thermally driven, or on products that can not be easily disassembled or reassembled, Shainin tools tend to lose their effectiveness.
    My belief is that Shainin DOE techniques are just some additional tools and procedures in the grand scheme of Continuous Improvement activities.  Shainin tools can be effective on some processes, while DMAIC approach may be more effective on others.
    Just a thought.
    Kirk

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    #113510

    Dog Sxxt
    Participant

    Seems you are not Shanin DOE practictioner, merely to say something after reading Bhote book.
     

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    #130390

    dave esio
    Participant

    Hello,
    I would like a copy sent to me also.  Thank you
     
    Best regards
     
    Dave

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    #130396

    jimmie65
    Participant

    You do realize you’re replying to a 4-year old post, right?

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    #130419

    Mikel
    Member

    Must be one of those real martial arts BB’s Jason was referring to.

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    #130430

    Paul Steed
    Participant

    Hi Dave,
    I posted a copy of this spreadsheet on http://www.qualityclinics.com/download.htm
    I need to stress it is the examples in the first edition, the second uses many of the same examples but also more.
    Best wishes
    Paul
     

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    #135960

    Dinesh Chandra Singh Bist
    Participant

    Dear sir,
    I am interested to know more about shanin DOE tools for ptoblems solving generally applicable in industry.
    regds,
    Dinesh Bist
    [email protected]

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    #150026

    luis ponce
    Participant

    Paul,
    Wou;d you share your spreadsheet? I want to learn and teach some
    friends in this DOE tool.
    Regards.
     
           Luis Ponce
     
     

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    #150043

    Paul Steed
    Participant

    Hi Luis,
    I put it on the web at http://www.qualityclinics.com/download.htm at the bottom of the page. I’d be interested to hear how you use it, or any developmentsBest wishes
    Paul

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