iSixSigma

VA or NVA

This topic contains 13 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by  Guruprasad Deotale 13 years, 11 months ago.

Viewing 14 posts - 1 through 14 (of 14 total)
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  • #41330

    AT
    Participant

    In a small retail outlet, the salesman searches, reaches for and retrieves an ordered item from shelf. As per lean, these three activities are to be treated as VA or NVA? What’s the logic behind the conclusion?

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    #129436

    Guruprasad Deotale
    Participant

    Dear ramesh , All three actions in exmaple are NVA .
    its like : “Are my actions are adding any Values to my Y “. Y is ultimate aim of the process . Here in example : Customer to get item in his/her possesion .
    As per measure phase  trg ; All transport , Inspection are NVA Activities .
    Hope this clarifies .,
    Guruprasad Deotale
    Reliance Infocomm , Mumbai

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    #129437

    AT
    Participant

    Not Clear. As a customer, I obviously do not know where the particular item I am looking for is stored on the shelves.Also, somebody is saving the job of physically fetching it for me. Why do you say that all this is NVA? Just because Lean says that transport or movement of materials/personnel is waste? I don’t mean to be confrontational but I just need more convincing.

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    #129438

    Guruprasad Deotale
    Participant

    Its Ok Ramesh .
    Lets be clear about couple of things ;
    1) Lean is “idea of doing more with less” hence its an Concept .Lean doesnt say as such anything about VA , NVA . VA ,NVA are different classification of any action that we map in Process flow diagram in Measure phase . Hence the refernce of MEASURE Phase that we underwent during our Black belt trg , was mentioned .
    2) What is Y ( Ultimate output of the process ) need to be understood . And for that Y as an ” Standalone aim ” what your action is doing need to understood .
    So For categorisation of activities into VA, NVA one has to be very  “Judicious” & SELFISH .and most important LEAST emotional ( Rutheless)
    Thing is ,  while categorisation think …. so what ? by this action how Y is improved , affected .
    In your example .. so what sales man did three actions to ensure his customer get the item . Ultimate aim was to get the item  , so process of physically handing over the thing to customer (  4rth Step ) will be only VA process.
    Hope its clear now  , however still we can communcaite,if require .
    Regards .,
    GSD .,Mumbai
     
     
     
    judicious”-

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    #129444

    jimmie65
    Participant

    A good rule of thumb: As a customer, would you pay extra for the activity?
    So in most retail outlets, you would not be happy to receive an itemized bill with extra fees for any of the 3 activities. Therefore, there are NVA.
    Jimmie

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    #129462

    jimmie65.1
    Participant

    A small part of searching is VA, the other two are VA.  How else would this item move from the shelf to the point of sale?  Some times people get hung up on definitions and throw logic out the door. 
    If you argue that this process does not add value then are you saying that the process that brought the item to the store is not VA? 
    “A good rule of thumb: As a customer, would you pay extra for the activity?”  This statement is confusing VA with Kano.  Also, most customers have no appreciation of what adds value.
     

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    #129464

    jimmie65
    Participant

    jimmie0.0000000001 –
    A couple of points:
    1. The item does not need to be on a shelf in the first place, so anything putting it there or removing it is NVA.
    2. Don’t confuse non-value added with “non-essential” – just because an activity is NVA doesn’t mean we can elimiante it completely. We might just reduce it as much as possible.
    3. Customers always have an appreciation for what adds value. It is what they pay for.
    Just curious, what field are you in? You see to have some issues with customers, particularly in providing what they want.
    Jimmie

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    #129465

    NS
    Participant

    These are NVA activites.  We do not have to stock them or give the item a grand tour of the store.
    You also answered your own question.  The task of bringing the item to the store is also NVA.  The item could have been shipped directly to my house.

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    #129468

    thevillageidiot
    Member

    Does it physically change the product in a way the customer is willing to pay for and does it do right the first time?  If not, it is not value adding
    Stan gave a great definition in an earlier post…wish I could remember…..esssentially (paraphrasing) the point was a defect opportunity is where we can can add value (see above) and a defect is where we use too much or too little of some resource in attempting to add said value…I thought it was a great way to tie-in lean v. sigma definitions….forgive me Stan if I miss quoted you….good luck.

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    #129471

    CT
    Participant

    Question: At what point does this activity become NVA? At What point does handling become NVA? Retail sets a price for an item, the customer wants this item, he see’s the item but cant reach it, store clerk gets and hands it to him, Customer is appreciative. If the customer is appreciative and buys the item then is it really NVA? Had no clerk been available for SERVICE then would it still be NVA? No sale would have been made. Did it cost the customer anything extra to have the Service of the clerk?
    Comments please…………kinda feel like playing devils advocate today
    CT

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    #129476

    Adam Bowden
    Participant

    Here is my interpretation:
    VA
    – customer is willing to pay for it
    – it transforms the thing
    – iit is right fiirst time
    NVA
    – typical 8 elements of waste
    NVABN (BN = Business/Legal need)
    – Required by law.Regards,
    Adam

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    #129477

    Gordon
    Participant

    We’ve got to keep the original question in context.  You make a good point that the item could be shipped to your house.  But if for example, you need a bandage to put on a cut, you need it here and now, not shipped to your home.
    You might be capable of searching for, reaching for and retrieving the product yourself, but if the price to have someone do it for you is low enough you would be more than willing to pay for it. 
    I always though the point of ‘willing to pay for it’ in the definition of NVA was to help identify some kind of inspection or other internally-focused activity (like scanning a bar code which helps in their inventory control) which brings no benefit to me.

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    #129481

    Guruprasad Deotale
    Participant

    All experts .,
    Keeping Y always in the context , will get us to categorise VA /NVA .
    Agree that, concept is bit confusing but good guidelines we could get in training . They say  to “Have dispassionate View ” whle categorisation .
    We relaised it when though of “Consultant ” & not “User “. What happens that , if i am from say Logistics field then i may say that ” No movement of material from One place to another is VA “, when actually its not . So ” User specific views need to be kept aside “, & Our “User Inner Mind makes emotional pleas  during categorisation “.
    Thats why in my earlier reply to Mr Ramesh ,purposefully some emotional /Human nature related terminologies were used .
    Just a view . Somebody might put it in better way !!
    Guruprasad Deotale
    Reliance Infocomm Mumbai – india
     

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    #129482

    Guruprasad Deotale
    Participant

    Please ignore my Earlier mesage . The following is correct one, with changes in Bold- Italics .Rgrets for inconv.Sorry …Guruprasad
    All experts .,
    Keeping Y always in the context , will get us to categorise VA /NVA .
    Agree that, concept is bit confusing but good guidelines we could get in training . They say  to “Have dispassionate View ” whle categorisation .
    We relaised it when thought as  “Consultant ” & not “User “. What happens that , if i am from say Logistics field then i may say that ” No …No …..All movement of material from One place to another is VA activity , after all its part of Logistics  “, when actually its not  .
    So User specific views need to be kept aside “, & Our “User Inner Mind makes emotional pleas during categorisation , need to be Kept aside”.
    Thats why in my earlier reply to Mr Ramesh ,purposefully some emotional /Human nature related terminologies were used .
    Just a view . Somebody might put it in better way !!
    Guruprasad Deotale
    Reliance Infocomm Mumbai – india

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